• boonhet@lemm.ee
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    7 days ago

    As someone that could probably best be described as center-left (guillotine oligarchs yes, UBI yes, abolition of private property and free markets no), I do dare say that not a single common person on the right likes the billionaires either. It’s just that their side of the political isle has been co-opted by the billionaires even worse than the “left” side because being anti-tax and anti-regulation is more useful to billionaires than pro-tax and pro-regulation.

    • Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works
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      7 days ago

      guillotine oligarchs yes, UBI yes

      That’s called center left now? I thought that was far left.

      Center left is what we used to have after WWII.

      Far left is what we worked for during the labour movement. Or so I thought.

      • eatCasserole@lemmy.world
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        7 days ago

        There’s a funny hodgepodge of ideology here… “Guillotine oligarchs” sounds pretty cool, invokes the French Revolution, which was radical left, at the time. But then the unwillingness to abolish private property is either an erroneous conflation of “private” and “personal” or an unwillingness to actually change the system that produces the oligarchs.

        It’s like bailing out the boat but when someone says “patch the hole” your like “but we need the hole!”

        • Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works
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          7 days ago

          No, it’s more like I know we are not ready to have the patch the hole conversation.

          I rather bail out the boat and during that time, when people slowly realize that these solutions work and have merit, and when people stop being scared of the word socialism, then it would be pragmatic to talk about patching the hole.

          Before that, talking about patching the hole might actually be counter productive as most people don’t have critical thinking and would be turned off by “radical” solutions.

          The biggest issue with implementing socialism today imo is people not realizing the solutions can be beneficial. I rather focus on socialists solutions that are “low hanging fruit” so people warm up to the idea.

          • eatCasserole@lemmy.world
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            7 days ago

            Yes you have to consider who you’re talking to but I think a lot of us are ready to talk about patching the hole.

            As a radical leftist I’m certainly not against bailing the boat, I just acknowledge that this is a temporary solution. Like, minimum wage needs to be high enough that people can work a reasonable number of hours, afford rent, and still have time to read Marx.

            The minimum wage hike is still important, it’s just not the end game. If you’re saying you’re not interested in patching the hole, that sounds like a problem. If you’re saying “this hole won’t be patched for a while, but some day we’ll get there. In the meantime, bail like hell.” then, we are comrades.

    • bufalo1973@lemmy.ml
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      7 days ago

      The left is not pro “all private property abolished”. Only " all private property of the means of production "

      • eatCasserole@lemmy.world
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        7 days ago

        Or, when someone says “abolish private property” they’re not talking about your toothbrush.

        In this context, private property is the stuff you can use to generate capital. Personal property is your toothbrush, your phone, clothes, furniture, bike, car, house etc.

        If you own a second house for rental income, that’s private property. The house you just live in is personal property.

        • deafboy@lemmy.world
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          7 days ago

          Yes, they are. Because by destroying the market, you also destroy the toothbrush making machines, and kill the toothbrush makers. Have fun eating the rich, but don’t complain when they end up stuck between your theeth.

    • AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world
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      7 days ago

      Private property ≠ personal property. Private property is mostly owned by businesses and corporations, not a person.

      As we can see in the US, housing should never be private property, since the number of units that have sat empty for at least 12 months outnumbers our homeless population by a factor of over 70:1 counting all residential types (apartments, condos, duplexes.) If you only count single family detached homes, those still outnumber the homeless population by a factor of 30:1