Reposting this from here from 2023, after I stumbled across it tonight and it hits hard.
The text in the image:
I love my smart TV. I love the way it takes a long time to boot up because it’s trying to refresh the advertisements on the home screen. I delight in the way it randomly restarts because it’s downloaded an update without asking me, each of which makes the TV slower and slower with every subsequent install. I adore the way it buries the apps that I want to use, and that I use without fail every single time, below the apps that it’s being paid to promote and which I have never touched in my life and would never use without the cold metal of a glock pressed hard against my sweating temple. I am infinitely thrilled by the way the interface lags constantly, due to the need to have one thousand unnecessary animations rendered on hardware ripped wholesale from a ten year old phone. I feel myself borne aloft on wings of pure joy when I am notified that my data will be collected and analysed to determine my usage patterns. Even now I am writing this from a field of beautiful flowers and soft luscious grass as I lie and look up happily at the bright blue sky, smiling happily to know that this is the future of technology
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I remember the ancient times when you could buy something, turn it on, then have it do what you want it to do. Setting the clock was the difficult part. Other than that, it just worked.
Learning ESPHome has been the most liberating thing. Take back control of your home. Local first. Privacy respecting.
I spy a research rabbit hole in my near future … 🐰
Edit: ESPHome is a system to control your microcontrollers by simple yet powerful configuration files and control them remotely through Home Automation systems.
Esphome is limiting though. Want to have a sensor that spawns a camera stream only on PIR detection, and then sleeps? Forget about it, those two will run in parallel, and the debug messages are terrible.
I find it more liberating to write in C, and then setup my own mqtt protocols when I want for HA to interact with
I agree. A few years ago I wanted to activate a fan based on temperature in a server cabinet, and offer a REST and MQTT APIs (for HA). It was impossible with ESP Home for some reason, if you added the Bosch 280 sensor you couldn’t use MQTT. Very arbitrary limitations.
It took me less than 2 hours to build it with an ESP32 + Arduino. It’s all libraries that you just need to put together at this point, barely any logic at all.
Get in car after SO used it. Her BT connects. She goes into BT settings and disconnects. The phone auto reconnects. She turns BT off. The phone turns it back on. She is stuck in a loop. I can never connect phone ever again.
Technology is amazing.
Its only a matter of time.
Is Sony actually a good guy for holding this patent so that no one else can go and do this shit either?
either
Is there any indication that they won’t implement this shit at some point?
Also, should we be trying to come up with the most insane “features” in this vein that we can imagine (knowing full well that some corporation will come up with them eventually), and then patent them to protect humanity from them?
Is there any organization that collects patents just to block them (in the consumer’s favor)? A kind of white-hat patent troll? And, if not, should we create one?
As if they’d ever let you skip adverts, even by dancing for them like a monkey.
Insert verification can copy pasta
Last I looked, we could still buy commercial displays. They’re dumb TVs. They cost more, of course.
Can you give a recommendation? I too looked for big displays and found commercial ones to be used as digital billboards but the specs weren’t all that good (no oled, no hdr).
OK, but it’s edge-lit and extremely tiny. You can get much better Smart TVs for less money, and then just never connect it to the internet
I can’t, unfortunately. I still have an old Smart TV that isn’t too offensive and doesn’t show me ads. If it starts showing me ads sometime, then it’s gone. But I’m not really a videophile and I’ll watch shows on anything so I haven’t really looked at what’s better, only at what’s cheapest. I do hear it can be tricky because the commercial displays are meant to be brighter than TVs and maybe it can be hard to get them dialed in the way you want.
We have a Samsung “smart” TV, hooked up to an AppleTV box. The TV’s original remote is in a drawer somewhere, forever unused.
I have the apps that I need, the tiny Siri Remote turns on the TV and handles volume, and, apart from the aggressively, insanely, mind-blowingly horrible on-screen “keyboard” / text input (we don’t have Apple phones we can use to mitigate this, sadly. Also, what the fucking fuck, Apple?!) we’re happy. For now. I trust Apple to make the experience incrementally worse as a fact of life.
Not perfect, but leagues better than dealing with Samsung’s interface.
Generally it’s not too hard to disable the smart TV part of it and just use HDMI for TVs running Android. But on Roku TVs for whatever reason you need to connect them to the internet and a Roku account at least once to unlock the picture settings. Hardware features of a TV like brightness adjustment have no business relying on some random server.
I honestly wonder how hard it would be to do a full lobotomy on a smart TV and if there would be a big enough market for that kind of service.
best thing is to never hook 'em up to the internet. provided the manufacturers don’t all start requiring internet to ‘set up’ a tv.
next best thing would be a revert of firmware or a full ‘reset’ of settings; if possible. to return it to an ‘out of box’ state–then above, never connect it to the internet.
replacing a cheap streaming device is a hell of a lot cheaper than replacing the tv once the software gets obsoleted for whatever reason.
my coworker (and boss, technically) just casually mentioned that her inlaws ‘updated’ their tvs when they were visting over the holidays. i cringed so fucking hard because i have the same model, just smaller–so i know what happens.
they had just recently hooked-up wireline internet and could actually stream stuff now… so i had just given them a new streaming stick to use instead of connecting their now 3 year old tv to the wifi.
You’d still have the TVs default OS running on a potato. I’m thinking more along the lines of replacing that with a bare bones old school OS that was responsive.
I have heard that some TVs attempt to connect to every WiFi they can find using default credentials even if you never connect it yourself
provided the manufacturers don’t all start requiring internet to ‘set up’ a tv
That’s an important caveat. And it appears that increasingly manufacturers are adding that requirement.
Yup. I bought a roku tv last Nov for a spare bedroom. Thing would not operate without a wifi connection and roku account.
I have mine disconnected from the network, but a certain non-techie member of my household (who doesn’t understand this stuff) keeps re-connecting it when they want Netflix to work, even though I’ve shown them how to do this without connecting the TV to the network.
I connected it once, then set it in the router as „enable child protection -> disable internet access“, gave it a static IP address and also blacklisted that address on my pi hole so that DNS won’t work for it. Then I immediately disconnected it. The router recognizes the TV with its MAC address when it gets reconnected and immediately bans internet access when it gets reconnected.
I’ve set up mine to automatically start on a specific HDMI port, that fixed the issue for confused family members.
To find the feature though was not easy. Had to look up how to access the hotel mode hidden menu. Apparently LG has extra features it only wants hotels to be able to use.
Apparently LG has extra features it only wants hotels to be able to use.
It’s more that hotels will buy in bulk if a TV has the features they want - and those “hotel mode” controls being hidden from typical hotel guests is one of those features.
I have simply blocked internet access (but not local network access) for mine. I only use it for jellyfin and Nintendo Switch tho.
I wish there was a company like Fairphone or Framework laptops but for TVs.
I’m surprised nobody has yet jail-broken Samsung and LG TVs and made a custom Tizen ROM
Probably too many models with too many varying components for anyone to bother trying…
Maybe that is why they make 20 slight variations of every model.
LCD panels do exist. They are just very expensive because they are not made for consumers and have no ads or data collection.
It’s almost like ads and data collection subsidize the hardware and make it cheaper…
Tbh I bought my last tv when 1080p lcd was the hot new thing and it was NOT cheap. If buying a dumb tv/“display” is just the same thing I’m used to? Fine.
That lcd is still kicking though so I won’t find out until it’s dead.
I have a Samsung smart TV and the operating system on it is so annoying. It’s so slow, has dumb ads, and I can’t cast to it like at all.
I’m even more pissed that they just disabled the Steam Link app for essentially no reason; it worked great for streaming games from my PC.
I’ve been thinking it would be cool to flash a different OS onto it, but I’m not sure if that’s actually possible.
I was dumb enough to get a random Samsung phone for a while. The ROM was on the SoC so it wasn’t possible to change short of getting out an atomic force microscope.
Sounds like smart TVs usually have older hardware, though, which could actually be a saving grace.
Rented a house over the holidays that had a Samsung Smart TV.
The UI is mind-bogglingly bad and slow.
The remote is also absolutely terrible and unintuitive. The keys that feel like they should be the arrow keys… aren’t. So even simple navigation through menus is painful.
Meanwhile, the marketing department reading this: “Boss! It’s working! The people are actually enjoying it!!”
“Also, can someone get the engineering team on the phone to figure out that glock thing?”
Don’t worry, silicon valley is already making headway into government (where all the big guns and the monopoly on force is).
I never understood why people hated smart TVs until one day mine decided to install an update that presents me with advertisements and a hub screen when I turn it on. If I don’t select something in time, the screen disappears, which locks all of the controls, and I can only reset it by turning it off and on again. Why??? Just why?!?!
You know why.
This is why I am dreading when my 2017 dumb TV dies. It’s really telling that dumb TVs, which should be cheaper to produce and sell, are either not available or very expensive (as in commercial displays). Really proves the point that the consumer is really the product.
And it won’t stay on the selected input. No signal? Gotta go back to the screen with ads.
Which brand is this? So I never have to go near it…
I have a Samsung TV from a few years ago, never connected it to the TV, so when I turn it on it just goes to the last used input (HDMI1 in my case). The bootup isn’t even that slow , maybe 5 seconds or so. Not great, but not terrible…
Vizio.
Same here, Samsung from 2019.
I’m in the market for a new tv and all this crap just makes me want to scream in frustration. But prolonging the decision will just make it even worse.
On top of that my 2017 shield is starting to show its age and there is really no comparable 4k (streaming) alternative thats not a security risk. I feel more and more pushed towards piracy, so that I can use my linux box and decide how and where to watch content. I hate it…
smart TVs mostly can be used as a dumb TV if you reject the terms of services when you set it up. I understand they are annoying, but people making such a big fuzz about them are clearly just fabricating drama.
You don’t even have to reject the terms of services, just never connect it to the internet. Not even once.
Won’t even be able to send rejections to a server.
I can recommend TLC, they can be used as a dumb TV and never need an internet connection if you just use it as a screen. Wouldn’t recommend them with internet though since the remote literally has a microphone build-in.
But I want to use the Internet. I want it to be able to access my network files and to cast video from my phone. Why does it have to be either all or nothing?
And the next generation my well have capability to connect to cell towers or something (for your convenience!). Or just refuse to work without internet access (for security!).
If you don’t allow us to track you, you’re probably a terrorist and a pedofile!
Consider an Android TV device. Fire TV Stick at the low end, Shield TV Pro at the high end. Not much point to anything in between.
You can do that with any small connected pc.
I think it is a drama, because it’s not just the tvs doing that. Almost everything is getting more and more annoying and restricting. Things are starting to constantly nag you one way or another, shove things into your face you don’t care about, take away functionality and generally worsen user experience… It’s just mentally exhausting.
And yes I know you can reliably turn that data collection stuff off (at least in the EU) but hopping through those hoops each and every time for each and every device and service can and will hollow out your resolve (and you have to find all the buried options every time…). Thats how you get masses that just don’t care anymore.
I honestly think the issue is that these people want a SmartTV but are annoyed about its downsides. When I bought my current TV I disabled the smartOS but ended up enabling it back because I did find value on its features.
I think the complaints are not well articulated. They do want the smart TV they just want good ones that dont spy on them or show ads.
Exactly! I just don’t want constantly have to fight my devices. It tires me out and sucks the fun out of them.
Interesting. I wonder how long that will last.
You really think the technology being inside there and capable of switching on at any time is just drama?
Found any promising leads? My Samsung is still holding on but I know I’m counting the days until it’s time to replace it
I’m still agonizing over it. However, I stopped caring as much and decided to focus on picture and capabilities. I’ll use it as dumb tv and try to beat whatever streamer will follow my shield into submission. Saves me getting a new dac for my hifi as well as none of my possible choices seem to support usb audio passthrough.
My biggest problem right now is that I always end up in the premium oled section ;)
i haven’t even turned on my tv in over a year because of that bullshit. i’ve just been using a monitor + laptop + 2.1 pc speakers.
Same, but I go the other route. Laptop to wall sized tv and sound system.
We still watch free, over-the-air TV, so need the tuner. Free PBS and NHK for the win.
You can get an HD Homerun. It’s a network tuner so you plug the antenna in it and then, you can watch tv on pretty much any device through the app (pc, google tv, android, iOS, etc). You can even record, pause live tv, etc…
Well that’s way beyond the original question, sorry to derail the thread ;)
Never heard of that option so thanks for the info! That could be the missing piece if I ever get a non-Smart TV.
99.9% of all these “problems” can be solved by using an ablocker DNS and a couple of adb commands (on Android).
I’d be setting up a pihole if I had a smart tv
I went from pihole, to Adguard Home to (finally) ControlD. I chose to eventually outsource the DNS because I was letting all family without connection when playing with my miniserver :-P
I thought this doesn’t work cause AndroidTV forces its own DNS server, specifically 8.8.8.8, Googles own.
It works, but it needs a bit of work. In particular, you need a router capable of redirecting all DNS call to the DNS you specify (Asus routers can do that, for instance). Moreover, one should also use a blocklist to forbid the connection to most common DoT/DoH public servers, such as
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/hagezi/dns-blocklists/main/adblock/doh-vpn-proxy-bypass.txt
tl;dr It can be done and it’s relatively easy, but one has to learn how to do it and choose proper tools (HW and SW).
Too bad adv commands are blocked on firetvs 😢
Well, yeah, though luck… Amazon (the store) is entirely banned from my house.
