I mean the guy is a straight laced professor of economics who wrote his thesis on the advantage of competition. He’s not exactly a working class hero. However, it could have been way worse and anyone who can’t see that just needs to look at the US to find out what happens when you don’t vote for the lesser of two evils.
Lesser of two evils, lesser of two intellects, lesser of two personalities, lesser of two qualifications, lesser of two accomplishments, we did all of that and then some. I’m happy for you all. I just wish we could have also rejected fascism.
The implication that I believe you are missing is that all humans are to some degree evil, and that goes doubly so for the type of human that finds themselves working in the world of politics.
It’s tongue-in-cheek, and that was very well known when the phrase originally came out.
Nothing is pure and virtue doesn’t matter. And even if virtue did matter, when you decide not to choose you are just as culpable with the result when it is the worse evil.
You can’t wash your hands if you had the power to act.
Where did I say that you shouldn’t vote? Of course you should vote. That’s a civic responsibility. I’m just rejecting the “lesser evil” argument. It’s used to support and justify bad candidates, and it helps to move the Overton Window in a more evil direction. All of those “lesser evil” candidates helped pave the way for Trump.
And if the conservative had won they all would have suddenly become optimists “the bright side is that this will weaken the western empire and accelerated the revolution of the working class!”
People to the left of Liberals aren’t Tankies, but Tankies whinge that the winner is not left of Liberal. They would probably also whinge about an NDP PM. The only outcome I can see them celebrating is conservative victory. Tankies are scum of the earth.
The discourse on Lemmy however is a tendency to use “tankie” as some kind of othering identity marker. If I, an NDP and QS supporter, raise my hand and say “excuse me but Carney is a right wing Liberal, and I’m not comfortable with how the Overton Window has shifted to the right in Canada”, there is a clear narrative that will lump me in with the Others, right? Who by virtue of being tankies are therefore traitorous to Canada and therefore, hello, here’s the old red scare trope of “fellow travellers”, “pinkos” and “useful idiots”. Let’s not pretend that’s not the case.
You’re right, demanding we expand NDP while throwing the election to conservatives does make you a traitor accomplice. And regardless of figure of speech, there is no virtue among tankies. If you want to move the overton window left then remove as many conservatives from office as possible, that is the only path forward.
Consequences matter. Maybe you are full of leftwing virtue but no one sane or intelligent cares.
Valuing your virtue over consequences makes you a threat to everyone, including yourself. You’ll sink the ship for your principles and drag everyone down with you. So yes, if it minimizes you or your group’s political influence it makes sense to call you a traitor.
Its what got my country Trump. I now feel a visceral internal rage when anyone tells me “Democrats and Republicans are the same.” Regardless of what their actual politics are. Because I know they did not vote, they let this shit happen so they wouldn’t “dirty their hands”. I hate them. I despise them.
Buddy, your political system is nothing like ours. We don’t have one all-or-nothing election. We have a Westminster system, we have a multiparty democracy, we have minority governments and the capacity for coalitions. Our supreme Court justices retire, our federalism is not broken like yours and we don’t have founding daddy issues that cripple us to blindly worshipping some 200 year old piece of paper.
Keep your rage your side of the border, your frame of reference does not translate to our system. Pipe down.
Buddy, your political system is nothing like ours. We don’t have one all-or-nothing election. We have a Westminster system, we have a multiparty democracy, we have minority governments and the capacity for coalitions. Our supreme Court justices retire, our federalism is not broken like yours and we don’t have founding daddy issues that cripple us to blindly worshipping some 200 year old piece of paper.
You still have a first past the post. My rage applies to people who ignore tactical voting in order to maintain their sense of virtue.
Besides, based on what you’ve said for all I know if you were eligible to vote in the US, you’d abstain from voting or advocate that both parties were bad and complain about lesser evilism here.
Keep your rage your side of the border, your frame of reference does not translate to our system. Pipe down.
What happened to “You Americans act like you are the world, maybe pay attention to the rest of us.”? If I’m to invest time in world events, I obviously am going to make some level of commentary.
That your country elected a government hostile to the Trump admin is very much my business. I am incredibly happy that your voting population has done so. I hope Carney embarrasses Trump. I hope he makes my fellow dipshit Americans who voted for Trump or failed to vote against him feels every ounce of bad decision making and evil and SUFFERS.
I’ve said it before, but if somehow in the future there was some military conflict between our countries, I would end up siding with your government in a heart beat and maybe even attempt to join your military… I would do things to MAGA homes that would have international watch dogs vomit at the sight of, my antipathy for MAGA is that intense.
Fuck tankies too. Many Canadians are understandably concerned that a guy slightly to the right of the status quo which gave rise to Poilievre is not going to make anything better for us.
I already see Canadian tankies complaining about how right-wing Carney is.
I mean the guy is a straight laced professor of economics who wrote his thesis on the advantage of competition. He’s not exactly a working class hero. However, it could have been way worse and anyone who can’t see that just needs to look at the US to find out what happens when you don’t vote for the lesser of two evils.
IMO anybody who promotes competition and antimonopoly is a working class hero.
“Competition” is not a working class interest. Solidarity is.
Yeah well Monopoly isn’t solidarity, it’s oppression, so fighting that is good in my book.
A liberal fights a monopoly by competition, so that no single capitalist gains more profits over the other capitalists.
A socialist fights a monopoly by socializing it and making it a utility that works to meet the needs of the population, eliminating the profit motive.
Lack of alternatives is always bad, the needs of the population are rarely homogeneous.
And the true enemy endorses monopoly, so I’m happy to call liberals my friends.
Sure, no problem with that, but they’re not “working class heroes”, which is what I reacted to in the first place.
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Lesser of two evils, lesser of two intellects, lesser of two personalities, lesser of two qualifications, lesser of two accomplishments, we did all of that and then some. I’m happy for you all. I just wish we could have also rejected fascism.
Supporting lesser of two evils just gets you more and more evil, and eventually you get to Trump.
The implication that I believe you are missing is that all humans are to some degree evil, and that goes doubly so for the type of human that finds themselves working in the world of politics.
It’s tongue-in-cheek, and that was very well known when the phrase originally came out.
The subtlety seems to have been lost over time.
Someone read that quote from The Witcher, not recognizing it was planted right at the beginning of a character arc of growth.
That phrase is aggressively fucking stupid.
Nothing is pure and virtue doesn’t matter. And even if virtue did matter, when you decide not to choose you are just as culpable with the result when it is the worse evil.
You can’t wash your hands if you had the power to act.
Where did I say that you shouldn’t vote? Of course you should vote. That’s a civic responsibility. I’m just rejecting the “lesser evil” argument. It’s used to support and justify bad candidates, and it helps to move the Overton Window in a more evil direction. All of those “lesser evil” candidates helped pave the way for Trump.
People not voting to prevent him from winning got us Trump.
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I think this is more like multiple paths that are all in the same narrow valley, if pollievre had won that would have led to a different path for sure
You don’t have to be a tankie to see that Carney is a red tory.
Stephen Harper when he was leader of the Conservative Party offered Mark Carney a position as Finance Minister.
So Conservatives sure thought he was far enough to the right to be a Conservative.
And if the conservative had won they all would have suddenly become optimists “the bright side is that this will weaken the western empire and accelerated the revolution of the working class!”
Anything to the left of the Liberals is “tankies” now?
People to the left of Liberals aren’t Tankies, but Tankies whinge that the winner is not left of Liberal. They would probably also whinge about an NDP PM. The only outcome I can see them celebrating is conservative victory. Tankies are scum of the earth.
The discourse on Lemmy however is a tendency to use “tankie” as some kind of othering identity marker. If I, an NDP and QS supporter, raise my hand and say “excuse me but Carney is a right wing Liberal, and I’m not comfortable with how the Overton Window has shifted to the right in Canada”, there is a clear narrative that will lump me in with the Others, right? Who by virtue of being tankies are therefore traitorous to Canada and therefore, hello, here’s the old red scare trope of “fellow travellers”, “pinkos” and “useful idiots”. Let’s not pretend that’s not the case.
You’re right, demanding we expand NDP while throwing the election to conservatives does make you a traitor accomplice. And regardless of figure of speech, there is no virtue among tankies. If you want to move the overton window left then remove as many conservatives from office as possible, that is the only path forward.
Nice imagination you got there. Do you have more things to imagine about what my political positions are, while calling me a fucking traitor?
Some people man.
Consequences matter. Maybe you are full of leftwing virtue but no one sane or intelligent cares.
Valuing your virtue over consequences makes you a threat to everyone, including yourself. You’ll sink the ship for your principles and drag everyone down with you. So yes, if it minimizes you or your group’s political influence it makes sense to call you a traitor.
Its what got my country Trump. I now feel a visceral internal rage when anyone tells me “Democrats and Republicans are the same.” Regardless of what their actual politics are. Because I know they did not vote, they let this shit happen so they wouldn’t “dirty their hands”. I hate them. I despise them.
Buddy, your political system is nothing like ours. We don’t have one all-or-nothing election. We have a Westminster system, we have a multiparty democracy, we have minority governments and the capacity for coalitions. Our supreme Court justices retire, our federalism is not broken like yours and we don’t have founding daddy issues that cripple us to blindly worshipping some 200 year old piece of paper.
Keep your rage your side of the border, your frame of reference does not translate to our system. Pipe down.
You still have a first past the post. My rage applies to people who ignore tactical voting in order to maintain their sense of virtue.
Besides, based on what you’ve said for all I know if you were eligible to vote in the US, you’d abstain from voting or advocate that both parties were bad and complain about lesser evilism here.
What happened to “You Americans act like you are the world, maybe pay attention to the rest of us.”? If I’m to invest time in world events, I obviously am going to make some level of commentary.
That your country elected a government hostile to the Trump admin is very much my business. I am incredibly happy that your voting population has done so. I hope Carney embarrasses Trump. I hope he makes my fellow dipshit Americans who voted for Trump or failed to vote against him feels every ounce of bad decision making and evil and SUFFERS.
I’ve said it before, but if somehow in the future there was some military conflict between our countries, I would end up siding with your government in a heart beat and maybe even attempt to join your military… I would do things to MAGA homes that would have international watch dogs vomit at the sight of, my antipathy for MAGA is that intense.
Ah, the enlightened centrist has bestowed the ultimate and correct opinion.
Fuck tankies too. Many Canadians are understandably concerned that a guy slightly to the right of the status quo which gave rise to Poilievre is not going to make anything better for us.