• masterspace@lemmy.ca
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    11 days ago

    What is this publication and who finances it because this section is incredibly sus:

    Copper use is not carved in stone. Hybrid cars, which pair small batteries with gasoline engines, need far less of the metal than fully electric vehicles.

    Power grids that mix nuclear, wind, solar, and a pinch of natural-gas backup can slice the copper bill dramatically compared with battery-heavy systems.

    “First of all, users can fact-check the study, but also they can change the study parameters and evaluate how much copper is required if we have an electric grid that is 20% nuclear, 40% methane, 20% wind, and 20% hydroelectric, for example,” Simon said. “They can make those changes and see what the copper demand will be.”

    Like you think we can transition to an increasingly electrified world, where all power comes from electric utility lines, and you think our copper usage will be … just in renewable power plants?

    This reads like straight fossil fuel propaganda. In an electrified future the majority of copper use comes from distribution lines and products that use electricity not the type of power plants generating electricity.

    • carbs@lemmy.world
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      11 days ago

      I’m not defending the article, but I think most overhead power lines are aluminium, which is probably good as it’s abundant compared to copper.

      • bluGill@fedia.io
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        11 days ago

        Aluminium is very commonly used. It isn’t near as good a conductor as copper, but you can easilly use more toeget results and in most cases that works fine.

        The reason we stopped using aluminimun more is it is relly tricky. when you tighten a screw the al deforms over time and so you don’t get a lasting connection. Al also corrodes to a non conductive state. Many house fires were traced to al wiring in just the few years it was common. We can mitigate all the above issuses but it takes care and so copper is preferred despite al being much cheaper.

    • Raltoid@lemmy.world
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      11 days ago
      1. The article is shit, the study is about copper used for reducing fossil-fuel power generation. It is basing the projected use of copper on windmills and especially large batteries.

      2. Those high-powered and long distance power lines are made aluminium and steel.

      • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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        11 days ago
        1. Distribution doesn’t just include long distance distribution. It includes all the wiring between transformers and houses and all the internal wiring of the house and all the devices inside etc.
        • Saleh@feddit.org
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          11 days ago

          And that part is entirely independent from whether the electricity is generated with solar, wind or fossil fuels.

    • GenosseFlosse@feddit.org
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      11 days ago

      In a lot of cases you can also use Aluminum instead of copper. You need thicker wires and it’s less flexible, but it’s doable and cheaper. Some old electric motors from the eastern block used aluminium coils for that matter, because copper was much more expensive there.

      • barsoap@lemm.ee
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        10 days ago

        Aluminium is actually a better conductor than copper when you judge it by mass, not volume. I think also by tensile strength.

        In any case there’s a reason that large overland wires aren’t copper, but steel-cladded aluminium. Copper will always have its applications but so does gold and yet we’re not running out of gold to plate connections with.

        In cases like windings requiring more volume is actually an issue, in the case of PCBs… no, despite Apple’s insistence, it’s actually fine to have a phone that’s 0.2mm thicker.

    • acosmichippo@lemmy.world
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      11 days ago

      The original study abstract is a little more clear. The main concern is grid storage batteries and EV batteries.

      Given that the sharp increase in copper demand is primarily driven by batteries, the extra copper needs for electrification can be significantly reduced if the need for electrical storage is minimized. This can be achieved by generating electricity through a mix of nuclear, wind, and photovoltaics; managing power generation with backup electric plants fueled by methane from abundant resources of natural gas; and transitioning to a predominantly hybrid transportation fleet rather than fully electric vehicles.

      • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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        11 days ago

        Or you use pumped hydro, or compressed air, or gravity batteries, or any of the other energy storage technologies that aren’t chemical batteries.

    • douglasg14b@lemmy.world
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      11 days ago

      Your argument against the article that talks about copper usage is founded on incomplete knowledge of where copper is actually used?

      🤦

      • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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        11 days ago

        It’s founded on the article not making a cohesive argument. Current copper usage is primarily in consumption and distribution, not generation.