- cross-posted to:
- android@lemdro.id
- cross-posted to:
- android@lemdro.id
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Google can go fuck itself.
Hopefully this will put some jet fuel into the Linux phone development.
Google can go fuck itself.
Google would much rather go fuck you.
they need thier AI to profit somehow, mining all your data to offeset the cost of those data centers.
Yeah, I’ll switch to absolutely anything that allows open installation of third party apps.
But for such major FOSS development, we usually have to throw money at them in advance, which is the problem.
The only advantage Android has over iOS is being able to install [any] software.
That’s one of the big ones. Also phones with SD card slots and headphone jacks.
If you can find one.
That’s why I like the Motorola phones. Moto G Power 2025 still has both.
Those barely exist. When I bought my Sony 5V, it was because it was like 1 of 2 or 3 new high end models that still had both the jack and an sd card slot.
*had Fuck google and every piece of shit implementing this for them.
Just about. There used to be more, but if im honest, if it works in iOS then its a decent experience most of the time.
But my custom apps makes or breaks my phone. Its so convenient.
Ill probably get a uconsole or something. Or keep my current phone til all this blows over.
iOS is infinitely more polished than Android. It’s rather stable and at least the main notification system isn’t that bad for privacy.
Edit: I want to inquire: what exactly is wrong about my comments. Android is a piece of shit. iOS is a piece of shit. iOS is smoother because Apple can engineer the parts more smoothly. Android lets you run software. I hate them both but I need to run Termux.
Its terrible for security haha. We were able to 0 day it a couple of times without trying all that hard. So many CVEs that are repeatable. I wil admit the UI is phenominally better (in my opinion). And the official apps (as long as you dont want to do something specific) are perfect at what they do.
Android is a bit better but you can exploit it because people dont update their phones. Google is actually VERY good at keep those up to date…but if no one updates, its kinda a wash.
Again my opinion, im not too attached to either. They both suck in their own unique ways. #1 is you have to use their tool sets which is unique instead of any other computer system. Its such a hassle to keep up with as a software developer.
I was just talking about the notification system which doesn’t require something that uploads your location to Google 24/7
ah ok. Well im not familiar with that other than push notifications, which you can set up outside of googles ecosystem…although everyone likes using firebase for some reason.
Yes that’s why I said “main notification system”
ok.
IIRC notifications can only be delivered reliably via Firebase — anything else gets paused if the phone is in Doze etc.
It is risky to say anything positive about Apple here, true or not.
Its not really a positive thing. More like bad and worse.
I agree. But you phrased it positively, and for that you must pay with digital schmeckles.
Aw :( now I won’t be able to buy some big fake boobiez.
How is the notification system better for privacy on iOS? On android you have notification groups to toggle and you can set which notifications show up on the lock screen and how much of them is visible there. The notification system is to me arguably the best designed thing on android and one of the worst on iOS
I meant the backend sorry. Google Play services vs Apple’s stuff.
Interesting, I’m not too familiar with how they work, what makes Apple’s more privacy-friendly than Google’s?
Apple doesn’t know who is subscribed to what notification channel. Its similar to Signal’s sealed sender. Meanwhile Google does.
I was able to set custom APN settings on my Pixel to bypass the tethering block that MetroPCS puts on their cheapest plan.
There is nothing in iOS that lets you do that.
I also can’t run WiFi scanners on iOS.
And Android will still have ADB sideloading. On iOS I have to run shit like Sideloadly to re-sign applications every 7 days.
If you’re a true Android fan, there is still a lot to keep you on the platform.
Literally all of this is being able to run whatever software you want
So if Android loses that you go to the other place that also NOT lets you do that? That makes sense… Get a fairphone, install Ubuntu touch and stop rolling over like a good little dog.
Did I say I’d go to IOS? Did I say that at any point?
I was able to set custom APN settings on my Pixel
What custom software is this?
It’s built-in.
Yes, I’m just trying to point that out to the above person.
Which part of having access to the built-in APN settings has to do with running whatever software I want?
this seems to be going the shittitest direction it could…fuck Google
ps: loving the apple simps coming out to claim iPhones aren’t perfect just because you can’t “sideload” lool
fuck google for spyware google play services and severe integration of them into android thiugh ^^
loving the apple simps coming out to claim iPhones aren’t perfect just because you can’t “sideload” lool
Confused ape noises
They literally have to be more shitty to make money. Side loading allows individuals to choose not to give their money and data to Google. Companies must grow year over year. It doesn’t matter if the growth is unnecessary, imaginary line must go up. So remove standard features and then charge a premium for that feature to return, or cut pay/benefits/hours, or layoffs. Those are what’s left for our corporations to grow. No new ideas. Just shit.
We really need some money poured into the Linux mobile space because this is a terrible direction to go.
dug my pinephone out of a drawer yesterday and gave it a whirl. still pretty rough unfortunately even after updating postmarket os.
Cool being able to SSH into my phone though
I’m still hoping they can get to a state for more general users. I really want one still. I need a Linux phone doing the old sidekick designs.
The main issue will be application support.
Linux running on the desktop in 2025 is helped immensely by everything being web based. So long as you have a browser you are fine for a lot of general computing.
The phone space is ruled by apps. The phone makers and the companies developing apps prefer it this way.
Getting a banking app, or Uber or Facebook Messenger to work on a Linux phone is going to be a massive pain in the ass (ignoring the rest of the OS which is definitely not even close to useable for the general public).
I would love a Linux phone but we are so far away.
The phone space is ruled by apps. The phone makers and the companies developing apps prefer it this way.
That’s true, but for everything non-free, they always end up having a perfectly working web app that will accept my money.
I’m sure there will be some sort of compatibility layer available. Android Linux based after all.
There already is! I had a Furi Labs FLX1 for a while and it was able to run Android apps surprisingly via Andromeda (their fork of Waydroid).
i’m just gonna switch to steam deck + gsm router
tbh part of the rough experience for me may be down to the hardware. the ubports version of the pinephone i have is quite low power. 2GB memory and a little ARM Cortex-A53
tis sluggish
Plain AOSP is already pretty brutal. An alternate OS is practically a non-starter. Phones aren’t just web browsers and SMS.
- Tap-to-pay
- Including transit fares
- Bank apps
- RCS messaging
- MFA and security apps
- Work profiles
- Streaming media that’s not 480p
Not to mention that the camera is going to suuuuuuuuck.
Forking or improving AOSP is more viable but none of the more mainstream ROMs want to piss off Google. That’s why most LineageOS forums forbid talking about defeating Play Integrity.
Also no GPU driver, because even if the manufacturer does actually provide it, some nerd within the community will block it for not being “free software” enough and that “for light 2D applications, CPU blitter is more than enough”.
On a mobile device? It’s more likely that only OSS drivers work and the binary blob driver only worked with a pre-Pandemic aged kernel. Or it needed a very specific userspace library that doesn’t work with a minimal libc.
“Free software enough” usually means “has a snowball’s chance of actually working”.
- Tap-to-pay
Google hit by EU lawsuit in 3… 2… 1…
EU wants to read all your online communications so, no, they will not be saving you from this. This furthers that goal
Luckily it’s not the same body in the EU who’s in charge of enforcing AND setting up proposals.
The EU is not a “one opinion” government body.
Well, some countries in the EU are pushing for this on EU level.
how convenient, GOOGLE wants all your data too.
Big gov and big corp are essentially the same thing. And while the people jump ship to be at the mercy of the “better side”, the elites are sharing a cocktail in secret.
The scale still remains, however one side tilted more so than the other.
“big gov” can be influenced by citizens. meanwhile, “big corp” is controlled by shareholders, the average person has zero say in how the corporate is run
Not true, vanguard sends me vote notifications. Basically, vanguard will vote on the board the way the vanguard shareholders do
This is basically the same as Apple’s notarization scheme for direct app installation on iOS in the EU. I do not believe the EU has sued Apple over that yet, and they’ve had plenty of time to do so.
They usually sue if the practice doesnt stop for over a year. They do send warnings before anything official comes out FYI.
But I dont know if they want to do anything though. No one but them and Apple knows for sure.
The law EU created looks like it has a loophole which allows manufacturer to prescreen side loaded apps (like what? What’s the point of sideloading then?) it is what Apple exploited and Google is going the same direction.
A few months ago? Yeah, I’d be with you. Today? It’s the wet dream of the current EU leads. Closed devices, where they can run spyware without risk of it being hindered by custom OS with proper permissions and process separations? So good. For them.
This is forced by EU regulations. I doubt Google would have introduced this on its own. If they wanted to do this, then why wait until forced?
So now 3rd party app stores need an ADB loopback to work around that.
Not hard to do, but uselessly annoying.
Installing the third party stores would be way harder than it is right now if they do that though. No way the devs of e.g. f-droid are getting a verification on an app that bypasses Google’s new ‘safety measures’
I could imagine something like Sidequest happening on Android.
That’s only if the apps distributed are unverified. Mind, the EU already requires app stores to document the identities of devs, but there are loopholes for Small enterprises. In 2027, manufacturers need to document the identities of their suppliers. There are still exceptions for non-profit open source projects, but that’s not what Google is. Surely, no one here wants Google to avoid regulations by investing in open source.
I believe F-Droid signs the packages it distributes so that creates a painful choke point. Revoke F-Droid’s key and it will break all of F-Droid instantaneously. The only exception for F-Droid’s signing is if the build is reproducible, which is a high bar for a lot of projects, and then F-Droid will use the upstream signature.
Also, they’re trying to close the ADB loophole.
I expect phones in the EU are going to become a lot more locked down in the next 14 months, like Samsung is already showing. But also think that Google will try its best to make developing for Android easy to get into.
I think you can already do that with shizuku and dome fdroid clients. It also makes using 3rd party appstores more convenient just in general.
Is this even legal in the EU? The majority of phones in the EU are Android phones so this effectively gives Google control over what apps can be installed to the majority of phones. I thought the Digital Markets Act was designed to prevent exactly this.
Google will become the exact same as apple, third party stores are technically “allowed”, but requires Google’s official stamp (digital signature), it’s same with Apple. Its probably legal since Apple is already like this.
A corporation like Epic Games will be left alone since they can afford lawyers. An open source volunteer dev making a Youtube alternative client will get their certificates revoked under dubious “ToS Violation” claims and they won’t have money to sue.
It’ll be a battle and then they’ll get knocked and so on and so forth until we get these lazy cunts out of politics and break up the fuckin tech companies.
I think some recent EU proposals that make Google responsible for ensuring users can’t install malicious apps is what has caused this to happen though. I could be wrong but I think I remember hearing about that.
i bailed on android to join my family on ios, and i hate it. now i cant even go back comfortably. so… linux phones?
I’m not sure why you did that. android still gives you more freedom and is still better
For now, yes. But time is running out and of course Apple is no solution. Only fools would go to apple now.
Also: Torrent clients are available on Google Play (for now, at least), Apple never allowed them.
it would be nice
I miss my N900 every day.
It had too little memory, but was clearly a step towards phone perfection. I am still bitter that Nokia hired a Microsoft loyalist who killed the Linux line … shortly before killing the whole company.
wdym “killed the whole company”? Nokia was always more than just phones. They are still around and one of the largest telecom equipment manufacturers.
So… Will the ADB let me do this? reVanced specially, YouTube is completely unwatchable otherwise.
I suspect this is designed to block revanced entirely. It won’t be able to install the apk it compiles or downloads, so apps won’t be able to update even if you have it installed via adb to begin with.
Revanced won’t be able to install, but you could still install manually the apk it creates. That’s what I do (not through adb though).
After this you won’t be able to install it manually
I haven’t used revanced in a while, but Fennic + ubo + sponsor block should get you to basically the same place unless they’ve added new features since I used it last.
No separate app required.
All APKs will require a signed developer certificate.
I doubt they will be signing keys for developers who circumvent Google’s services, or that violate their ToS.
They’re copying this scheme from Apple in Europe, when it was forced to allow other app stores.
In that case, Apple revoked certificates for apps it didn’t like, such as P2P/torrents. Mind you, these were NOT apps that were not hosted on Apple’s App Store.
But ADB bypasses it.
(for now, at least)
That’s what it sounds like.
They’re doing the same thing Apple has been doing for years, I used to run a self-signing application which ran every week or so by itself.
Workarounds are going to exist plenty, it’s just a slap in the face. Especially because the Play Store is filled with malware. Apple’s strict rules are horrible for developers, but at least it’s not as riddled with malware.
Can someone “redpilled by corporate” explain me how this policy actually increase security?
It’s trivial for a malware developer to pay $25 with a stolen card and a stolen id
Look at the “verified” bots on xitter, they didn’t solve the bots problem, rather just monetized it
It’s a lie. Google just wants control.
The vast majority of malware isn’t delivered via play store because of the existing measures and protections they have. Same reason you see very little app-store-based malware on iOS. DISCLAIMER: YES MALWARE EXISTS ON APPLE HARDWARE PLEASE DON’T SHOUT AT ME. Talking specifically about anything installed via first party stores on both platforms.
Their main issue is this: dumb people install apks from spurious website and infect their phones. The least controllable and most pervasive factor here is the intelligence and knowledge of the user which cannot be controlled for by Google. So by eliminating the ability to exploit this entirely, it will eliminate that specific vector.
It’s a sledgehammer solution that naturally comes with many downsides like disrupting intelligent and knowledgeable users that just want to hack around with FOSS and such.
Google is relying on It being too expensive for malware creators to have to guide each individual user through adb installation and usage process just to get access to their phone. Most scammers only do that level of interaction to extract actual cash/gift cards from the target.
I am personally and directly affected by their decision in many negative ways, but I’m not so dense as to not understand why they’re doing it.
/corpodronespeak
EDIT: bots help Xitter maintain inflated usage figures which justify people’s jobs, share prices, etc. Bots are a feature, not a bug.
yes, of course malware is distributed via apk.
But what’s the difference between:
- malware that is signed anonymously and then, when its signature is identified, it’s removed via play protect
- malware that is signed with a stolen identity and then, when its signature is identified, it’s removed via play protect
?
Isn’t exactly the same stuff? Or there’s someone that is actually thinking that criminals will use their real ID card for the verification?
Does not change anything for malware distribution, except bother them for a dozen minutes meanwhile they “verify” their stolen ID
Because it can be invalidated. That’s the difference.
It’s absolutely not foolproof, but nothing is. Most actions corps take for this stuff only slows down the spread. Hackers and bad actors innovate way faster than companies can keep up with. So companies cast a wide net with their solutions. And the cycle continues.
Apks can be invalidated after installation?
with the new system, you must go online to check if the license for that app is still valid or revoked. But the current system works almost the same: if there’s an internet connection play protect checks the signature against an online malware db and prevents installation.
From a couple years ago, google has the power to remotely install/uninstall any apk on your phone without your consent
No, the certificate can be invalidated preventing future installations for other users. If you already have it you’re SOOL
It’s not about stopping malware; it’s about being able to act on malware.
Making a new account with a new phone number and new credit card is a minor barrier to entry.
That said, it’s a cool story, but I think they’re looking to stop vanced style patching.
I presume they are implying that the play store review process will catch compromised apps? Not likely considering how many dodgy apps have been found on play store. It’s just another controlling act.
Google is doing this to comply with EU regulations supposed to increase security. Now imagine that Google was pushing back against this instead of complying. As per usual, Lemmy would be up in arms against Google for failing to protect people’s data and not complying with our laws and culture. You’d be downvoted to oblivion for asked that question and called a corporate bootlicker.
I think these rules come from German legal culture, which traditionally has a strong need to control information exchange and processing.
the way they originally phrased it, it was seemingly because of authoritarian governments like singapore wanting to exert more control (hey google, can you revoke the certificate or doxx this dev for us?) and then they realized that they could make more money if they extended this block worldwide
I’m sure the EU is not the only jurisdiction demanding this sort of thing, but I doubt Singapore has the pull needed to get Google to move.
Brussels effect. Imagine Google were to still allow unverified apps in the US. Most devs would still opt for verification so as not to lose the EU market. The proportion of malware is probably going to be higher among the few remaining unverified apps. Sooner or later, some US scam victims would sue Google for failing to protect them like it protects Europeans. Hard to refute.
Free market and openness my ass.
Removed by mod
Hold up, why all this crap… when most of the malware/infostealers is on Google Playstore… and googe itself is doing it.
It’s called “eliminating competition”.
Get fucked
ThIs ApPLicAtIoN iS DaNgErOuS
