“Threatens.” Oh, they mean “proposes as an alternative.”
Fuckin’ NYT.
Threatened makes him sound way coolerI
yeah. status quo bias
Scale the property tax exponentially based on the valuation of the property. Make sure the wealthy land owners pay more. Much, much more.
thats a good idea. A progressive property tax. I sorta can’t believe it never occured to me and I never saw it mentioned previously. Would encourage affordable housing building I think to.
There’d likely be a lot of ways around it. Large plots would be broken up into smaller legal boundaries, parts would be owned by shell companies, parts would be loaned out and rented back at low rates, etc. etc. They’d find a way to take advantage of it to pay less than anyone else.
A straight-up land tax with no frills does the job. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
No, it wouldn’t. It would discourage development and would encourage people to let their properties languish to lower their assessed values.
The current system works because generally you do not pay more for more expensive property, you pay a flat rate based on the assessed value. And there are abatement for certain identity and income groups already that serve as a progressive measure. Low income and senior residents most typically get the biggest tax breaks already.
The current system works
It does?
for the vast majority of people and situations, yes.
Well I’m convinced.
this is the argument about all taxes. rich people will leave. corporations will leave or people won’t invest. companies won’t look to make money because they more they make the greater the rate of tax even though they will still get return. people won’t want to get paid more becuase that more is taxed higher. you already pay more for more expesive property this would just slowly graduate the rate as it goes up just like income taxes.
I don’t get any abatements or lower rates. I think the wealthy should pay a higher rate in some circumstances. If they aren’t paying federal taxes we should make them pay more for local taxes. Every time they are taxed they threaten to leave, or not invest, and it’s all bullshit.
If they do leave, that’s the best case scenario, nothing good comes from billionaires. Nothing good comes from half billionaires either, 100 millionaires, they are all a drain on society. Both in making their money, and in not paying taxes and contributing to the society they live in, then in perverting our governments, and actually getting tax dollars. We end up paying them, in tax breaks for their business, to say nothing of the bail outs both the last times we had a recession.
properties languish to lower their assessed values.
you do not pay more for more expensive property, you pay a flat rate based on the assessed value
How is that possible for assessed value to be one way but not the other? Assessed properties have to do with the value of the property. It’s not 1:1 but it is definitely correlated.
because people are not rational. they are emotional.
and they are VERY emotional about taxes to the point they do stupid crap. a lot of people are very fearful of taxes to the point they make really crazy choices based on that fear.
my own sister is going to move to some rural shitty state, because she is so afraid of paying taxes once she retires. especially property taxes. and when i point out the irony of that when she gets sick there will be zero medical services… she tells me to go fuck myself. she has this delusional belief that if she lives in a cabin in bumfuck nowhere then her life will be amazing because she won’t be paying taxes as much.
The point I’m making is that you said people will tank their property value to lower their assessment, but in the same breath said that assessment has nothing to do with property value if it’s expensive.
I don’t like people like your sister. She benefited for her entire lives by people of all ages paying taxes for social local services she consumed growing up, going to public school, driving on maintained city roads, being protected by fire/police services, and using local libraries. The moment its her turn to pay for the younger generation then suddenly that spending she considers wasteful and ducks out of that society.
You correctly pointed out many of the difficulties about old age in rural environments. I hope she doesn’t die because she has a health event, and the closest hospital is an hour away in the closest big city, and the ambulance service may take an additional 45 minutes to arrive.
I don’t like her either, she is classic greedy rich person. She thinks all of those things are evil that she is forced to pay for by lazy poor people. She is not very grounded or educated, she went to business school and worked for a corporation her entire life and basically thinks anyone who isn’t rich like her is a pathetic loser.
But I’m sure she will move to this rural place, and vote to defund the schools and hospitals because it’s for poor people and her kids weren’t raised there so why should she pay any taxes for other people’s kids? She already ‘paid her dues’ by raising her kids in a city with high taxes.
Your argument is based on the likely false premise that she can pay and is choosing not to, that she will always have money to pay. It’s the attitude of society to the poor in this country. It’s not that they don’t have the money, they are choosing not to pay. It’s not all that true.
Nevermind they lose the property if they can’t pay property tax, that costs are going up, and fixed incomes are not. Real inflation is higher than stated inflation increases are based on, thanks to a half century of cpi changes to understate it, 5-8% to 2-3%. They might need a car in the country, with it’s many costs, you certainly need one for dignity in almost all of the country. Food, bills. Medicine, co-pays for medical. All of those go up more than her pay, but you “don’t like” people like her because she’s loath to live in an area that has a tax that will seize her property if she can’t pay it, leaving her to die penniless on the street.
Society having nothing but contempt for her, and everyone victim blaming, courtesy of fox news and their war on poverty.Your attitude is wrong-headed here.
My sister has about 50 million dollars.
Yes, she very much believes she is poor and can’t afford to pay taxes. She is poor just like Jeff Bezos is. Bezos also believes taxes are unfair and cruel and he can’t afford them.
If you don’t have money to pay property taxes they seize your property and auction it off. All while costs are skyrocketing, and people on fixed incomes aren’t getting more money. To dismiss your sister’s fear is wrongheaded, she’s right on this unless she has a lot saved up, social security is worth less in real value every year, as real inflation averaged 5-8%/year under the old, and more honest, standard, just by 2008 for the 50 years prior, and stated inflation in the cpi that it’s all based on had it’s formula changed several times to keep it around 2-3%. The difference is 1,300 dollars a month social security recipients are now denied from those changes to the cpi, on average.
So costs can go up so they can’t afford to eat and pay bills and keep a car, and pay property taxes. Plus the county/township can come in and change the valuation of the property, raise the millages, etc.
Losing your property as a retiree is catastrophic, I would say you are way off base scorning your sister’s very real concerns here.
Yeah, none of that is true. My sister is objectively an idiot, she has millions of dollars and her fear is founded by ‘taxes are theft’ beliefs. Her SS benefit will be like 5-6 grand a month no top of all her already crazy money. she is a millionaire.
I worked in tax policy. It takes years of willful neglect to get your property seized. Like 10 years of not paying your taxes, and even then most municipalities have programs to make payments on tax debts.
It takes 3 years here to get your property seized and auctioned.
And not making enough money might seem like “willful neglect” to you, reared on fox news campaigns blaming the poor for getting cheated by society out of a dignified life, one they had before the 80s.
But the jokes on you, and all of us, because they are coming for all of our money, you just didn’t see through or care when they manipulated you into supporting it.
Even as they cheat you every day in the understated inflation, unless you have investment income. It’s your own fault I’m sure. Stupid others, not having enough money, it’s clearly a choice and a personal failing they are getting cheated by a society seized by big business and run by nihilistic lawyers working for billionaires.
Please forgive tubulartittyfrog, as you can plainly see, they are emotional and get angry when math doesn’t match their stupid crap feelings
Its so funny the NYT has like half a dozen quotes about people opposed to the tax hikes but not a single one has presented a real idea for alternatives.
“Why can’t we just continue as normal and keep pushing the problems down the road for someone else to figure out?” - New York’s comfortable masses who are already older than dirt and have no stake in the future, and basically all of America’s financial policy for the last hundred years.
NYC has some of the highest taxes in the country. The alternative is less taxes.
The alternative is less taxes for most, and more taxes for few.
New York in general has pretty moderate property taxes, ranked 10-20th depending on exactly how it’s calculated, and well behind Texas, NJ, most of New England, Illinois, Nebraska and Ohio.
In NY county and Queens they are well below the average for NY and slightly below the national average.
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/property-taxes-by-state-county/
New York is No. 2 behind Hawaii for the overall tax burden. Texas is 40th. Source is wallethub.
https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494
This thread however is about property taxes specifically. If you want to argue that NY should reduce income taxes and increase property taxes, I’m here for it, it’s a better way to collect money. But having a high level of taxation in general is good if those taxes go to services. What’s the average gas bill in Texas compared to NY? Also, with a progressive tax system it shouldn’t be surprising that the place with incredibly high salaries is also paying more taxes.
The problem is that all those services that people like and rely on? They cost money. Inflation and dipshit tariffs are eating into everything, so new revenue is required.
How are you gonna do less taxes when your guy left office with a 12b shortfall? My understanding is that NYC services are already running pretty lean as it is. What are you gonna cut?
New York has some of the highest wealth in the country, but woe and damnation if we suggest that maybe they should consider helping us out with shit like roads and garbage and sewers. Nah, let’s let the people working two jobs pay for all that.
“We are either going to get the money from the fat cats or from you. Your choice.”. I’m waiting on pins and needles to see where the money comes from.
Both of those hit the fat cats
I mean property taxes and wealth taxes are essentially the same thing.
Only if the wealthy have their money invested in real estate, right? If they’re invested in stocks and hedge funds and such, then a property tax increase isn’t going to cost them as much as a straight up wealth tax.
This is how you do it when you’re serious about achieving what you promise for your constituents. Use your tools as needed, demand cooperation, when you don’t get it, use your tools as leverage. Even if you fail, people see you did what you could and then they’re ready to punish whoever stood in your way at the ballot box. This is why the oligarch class is so afraid of Mamdani who’s just a mayor.
I’m a NYC resident, and I pay property taxes. If this is the stick that will (hopefully) get us the carrot of a wealth tax, I’m all for it. If property taxes end up going up, and we can use it to make the city better with the services Mamdani wants to get going, well then let’s go. I will figure out how to pay the additional taxes somehow. With that said, let this be a bargaining chip. Working with the rest of NYC’s political class is like a bunch of toddlers. The best thing you can do is give them two options, one you want (which they won’t like) and one you don’t want (which they really won’t like). And make them pick. So they feel like they have agency, it’s their decision, don’tchaknow?
Don tchak now
Don Tchak never! The dude is completely corrupt, and I hear he has some very nasty sexual proclivities.
Uh doesn’t this just inflict pain on the middle class if it ends up passing?
Most people dont make over 1,000,000 a year. A millionaires tax, like the one passed in Washington state, only taxes 9.9% of every dollar OVER ONE MILLION. The first million has the same tax rate as everyone else.
They still keep 90.1% of every dollar over one million. It is not as if it is forfeit. They will still be making a shit ton of money.
Talking about the property tax, not the wealth tax. And even though it’s lower than other parts of the country, a third of NYC denizens own their homes, so a property tax increase seems like it’d have a lot of collateral effects on the not-so-wealthy.
I feel you there. Washington state has no income tax, so there are so many levers we can pull to raise revenue. Property tax is one of the big ones. Every time I get a ballot to vote on, there is some new levy they want to add. I generally vote yes, because I want schools to be funded and parks taken care of, but it does get to a point where our tax system is regressive.
Wealth taxes make sense. Those who can afford to pay a small amount more should step up. Mamdani’s plan of raising taxes on wealthy New Yorkers by -2%- is even less than what was passed in Washington state.
Does the middle class own property in New York at all? I thought most just rent apartments.
NYC is 5 boroughs a lot of it is single family or 2 family housing.
And you think land lords won’t pass increased property taxes on to their tenants?
I don’t live in NYC so I won’t give an opinion on this but landlords won’t just eat increased taxes.
No, in a market like NYC rents are already the maximum that the market can bear, and a lower percentage of property prices than elsewhere. Landlords in fact will eat at least part of the increased taxes because the only other option is to not rent the property. That’s exactly why they’re so upset about it.
Property taxes are paid by the renters. Landlords don’t have any money other than rent. This is a tax on tenants with extra steps
Landlords don’t have any money other than rent. This is a tax on tenants with extra steps
The landlords that this is targeted against are not the slightly rich guy who owns an apartment building, it’s people like Citadel LLC who has nearly $70 Billion dollars of assets under management, a large portion of which are rental properties.
Those landlords have the money to pay the taxes. They own much more expensive properties, many of which are held empty and are limited in how much they can raise their prices indirectly, due to them already charging as much as the market will bear and also directly by Mamdani freezing rents.
In addition, many wealthy people in NYC own expensive housing (including Trump) that they use and do not rent.
Better pass a rent freeze first or that property tax increase will just get passed on to the people who can afford it least.
He’s working on it. Link
Better pass a rent freeze first
Renters are already fucked in NYC. Stop making their lives worse with proven failures like rent control.
Rent control works in specific applications. First, it must be short term as a response to market shocks (like a sudden tax increase). It also must have a graduated taper off period where prices are allowed to gradually increase to meet the market rate. With the dramatic increase in work-from-home, office spaces are going empty. This creates an opportunity to counteract the usual reduction in the quantity of rental units that comes with rent freeze. Reductions of red tape and streamlining conversion of office spaces into apartments would stabilize or even increase the number of rental units.
The entire point is that there needs to be a comprehensive strategy, not just a simple tax.
Rent freezes make landlords only do the bare minimum maintenance required by the law since they can’t increase rents when doing any remodelling.
Yah you’re right, all these poor, hard-working Landlords who serve the people must be protected at all costs, they do so much for the average renter, we can’t dare touch their clockwork perfect system that SOOOO many people love.
Jesus christ, grow a clue.
Another way of looking at this is landlords won’t be able to fancy up units and jack up prices which push out low income renters. Also, if landlords can’t make a profit, they will sell which will allow more people to buy rather than be forced to rent. This does decrease the number of rental units in the future which could drive up prices, but it could be combined with a plan to renovate office spaces into apartments to counteract this.
Lmao how many properties do you own?
Honey landlords already do the bare minimum.
While I wholeheartedly agree with the goal, we should keep in mind that this is still executive overreach and that one single person shouldn’t get to decide. Of course, the whole system needs a better approach to really implement the constituents’ wishes, but no kings goes at all levels, not just the presidency.
He’s required by law to balance the budget and has legal authority to do so by raising taxes.
If anything most his critics are proposing he simply disobey the laws by slashing lawful services or by operating at a shortfall.
I’m not criticizing his goals, not even the action itself, I am just pointing the approach to it.
I would push back and say that he’s trying to implement the mandate he got elected on using the levers he has. In an ideal system the legislature should set the boundaries but that isn’t the US right now.
No, oddly enough a mayor does in fact have the authority to increase or decrease property taxes.
He can also implement “special assessments” or “mansion taxes” o properties.
He does have limits on who he can tax, it looks like the state controls the taxation for homesteads. Im not certain he can raise taxes on people with one home that they are currently living in (that may require state approval).
I never said he doesn’t have the authority, I said that if what he wants is not in his power, the state legislature in this case, this approach is something people would decry if the opposite side of the spectrum did it (the approach itself, the content would anyways).
and that one single person shouldn’t get to decide
I doubt that he is bypassing any legislative process here. Hes just doing things that are legally within his power.
Oh, I’m not saying he is doing anything outside of his powers, I’m just saying that legislating by executive order is not tactic that should be encouraged.
Yeah executive orders are a stupid concept, but is it even the case here. I dont see anything about it in the article, it just says “Mayor Zohran Mamdani on Tuesday proposed to raise property tax rates in New York City by nearly 10 percent”. It just sounds like a proposal that is still undergoing evaluation, not an order.
