Title.
Cause education is not equal to intelligence.
Work at a university; try telling that to the academics. Some of them are phenomenally simple. They may be convinced of intellectual superiority because they’re a world expert in frog genders, but they struggle to solve simple problems or absorb reasoning without having it dumbed down.
A university is like a daycare for those adults. And the trantrums and toy throwing they have with each other, oh my god. Daily I wonder how some of these people would survive if they ever had to leave school.
Academia is a good walled garden for those hyper specialized researchers. They progress research and the institution acts as a patron and sanctuary from the world. Perhaps we should reward continued general education though
Reminds me of a joke from Ghostbusters, when Ray and Peter are kicked out of the university:
“You don’t know what it’s like in the private sector. They expect results!”
It also seems that the more specific a person’s education gets, it replaces general knowledge and thinking. For many it seems their entire thought process changes to focus on that specific thing, to the detriment of anything else. Doctorates seem to be less capable of working outside their specific focused niche compared to those with lower degrees. They’ve spent so much time focusing that they can’t unfocus very well.
This is the real answer. Most people conflate the two.
To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom.
-Charles Haddon Spurgeon
Simpler & clearer:
Intelligence is solving-the-problem-efficiently/quickly…
Wisdom is realizing we’d been solving the wrong problem, & working-out what the right-problem is…
Wisdom’s meta-intelligence.
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People keep saying that, but it’s bullshit. In many countries outside the US, people can only do a degree if they’ve proven that they’re intelligent.
But intelligent people can be really stupid too.
i’m a mechanical engineer. i know something about electricity and physics. i also have a degree in international trade.
until 2 yrs ago i didn’t know how eggs get fertilized and yesterday my wife had to show me how to remove olive pits while preparing ouur cooking.
by all accounts i’m a dumbass with 2 degrees in specific fields that i don’t encounter in day-to-day life. i have no idea how to survive in this world. i am sure others feel the same.
Marcin Jakubowski talks about this in his TED talk; theoretical physicist realizes he cannot DO anything, becomes farmer, founds open source ecology.
This is the best answer.
Marcin Jakubowski talks about this in his TED talk; theoretical physicist realizes he cannot DO anything, becomes farmer, founds open source ecology.
Knowledge is not intelligence.
The difference is the conclusions drawn from the knowledge obtained. Dumb people can survey knowledge and come to wrong conclusions, it happens all the time.
Education isn’t just learning knowledge, it’s also skills and thinking. But it is usually restricted to a limited domain…
Intelligence and Wisdom are two separate stats.
C’s get degrees.
I heard that after the Vietnam war with most the protesters being college students they made an effort to remove lessons that teach critical thinking and problem solving to make people more compliant and less likely to do that again.
So current education is more about regurgitating information unless you go for your doctorate I would think. Dont know in that one, just a guess.
This is conspiracy nutjob thinking.
The federal government does not control university curricula. It doesn’t control what professors teach or how they teach it. Professors often have tenure, and can barely be fired by their own university for being subversive.
I thought education was standardized across all levels, didnt know universities had the leeway to do whatever with that curriculum. Thats interesting.
Certainly not. At least not in the US. Afaik, what is taught in public schools is defined by various levels of government. For example, the federal government sets standards for levels kids should achieve in reading at various ages, and mandates testing for this. The states define what should be taught in history classes in broad strokes (should be taught US history, world history, etc) but typically don’t get into the details (you must teach the battle of Gettysburg). Then school boards, or sometimes the schools themselves, choose textbooks to teach the topics. The textbooks are written by private publishers - information from one book to another will be largely the same, since it is mostly well established facts, but emphasis might change between books as much as the authors want. For classes like English, teachers can typically assign whatever books they want - though for classes with standardized tests (like AP classes), teachers must stick to a (fairly large) list of approved books so that test graders will be familiar with them when evaluating essays.
At the university level, the government typically has even less influence. Really, anyone can claim to be a university - hence Devry and Pheonix. But if you want to be a university anyone gives a shit about, you need to be accredited as a university, and accreditation happens via a non-government organization which exists to maintain the standards of university education. Core classes at the undergraduate level tend to be fairly standardized - not by any central planning, but simply because the knowledge is fairly standardized in any given field and universities often must transfer credits for students from other universities. Professors - especially tenured professors - can teach more or less whatever they want in their classes, but class curricula are typically set by department committies to ensure continuity in students’ education. And professors typically stick to the curriculum that has been set, since (1) it is probably a decent definition of what the students need to learn, (2) they don’t want to catch flack from their collegues next semester when the students dont know something they should, and (3) cranking through the syllabus is faster and easier than being subversive, and they have grants they need to write.
That makes sense. This is a very thorough explanation, thank you very much for taking time to explain that, I appreciate it. Always up to learn something new! :)
Np!
maybe for public k-12 yea,theres definite attack on that. but private instituition have thier own curriculum, and its not the same at each school, some schools have better teachers than others, and better resoruces for experience in stem field. the more elite ones though have a different mentality, it breeds elitist/entitled graduates.
Depends on what you mean by that.
Stupid as in not grasping some concepts quickly?
Education is just a narrow overview of a particular field. Once you’re out the narrow scope of what you’re taught - it’s all about your general knowledge. I know a world-class physicist who does not comprehend basic things about society, economy, relationships etc. And, working in a scientific field, I see plenty of such examples.
Stupid as in unable to aggregate data and synthesize understanding?
The state of modern tech and media more broadly eats heavily into people’s attention span. People have harder time concentrating, and it gets so much worse when they need to aggregate all the sources they have. They just don’t have enough short-term memory to keep it all together.
Stupid as in making weird life decisions?
Everyone’s life experience is drastically different than yours, and, seeing only the surface, people often downplay what others went through and how it shaped their thinking. Sometimes it introduces genuine logical errors into the behavior, and sometimes it just comes from a much different perspective than you can imagine. In their world, the decisions they make makes sense. In your world, you also normally make sense for yourself, even if you’re actually irrational in one thing or another. This does, by the way, include all the typical political rants - high-ranking politicians and their numerous advisors are unlikely to all be stupid. More likely, these people pursue different interests from what you imagine.
Overall, the word “stupid” is heavily overused and applied to a lot of different things. So, it always makes sense to clarify, or else it looks more like a rant rather than a genuine question.
Complaining about people being stupid is as old as the world itself, yet it’s not very productive or done in good faith. Before claiming anyone stupid, try to ask them for their perspective and the way they look at a problem. And if you’re able, unpack what you think is wrong.
And also: **Stupid as in willful ignorance? **
My mom worked as a university professor, then advisor, and what she said about college was “it just shows a prospective employer that you can follow rules and commit to doing something for a few years and follow through on it. That’s why they want the degree. Also cuts down on applicants, fewer to sort through.”
So, from someone on the inside, she didn’t think the main reason was education, in terms of specific jobs. I know in accounting I don’t use so much of what I learned and that’s a pretty specific degree. Anyone with a mind for numbers & systems could be trained on the job to do what I do.
I’ve used the advanced systems analysis math I learned in university as an actual calculation in my job precisely zero times.
I roughly think about how those models apply to situations and how that will effect the various likely outcomes and behaviours etc on a literal daily basis.
University isnt just about training you to do a job.
I am an expert in my field. Because I devote all my time and brain to being so. I am average to terrible at everything else. So many of us like to think otherwise. I don’t get why. I’m tired at the end of the day and I just wanna be bad at shit lol. Ego?
Education has no bearing on intellect. Or appropriate life experience.
Also, when people say someone is stupid, crazy, etc, it’s because they don’t understand that person’s perspective.
Yep. Education isn’t inclusive of neurodiversity, non white western ethnic groups, or just different types of intelligence. Academic isn’t intelligence
It’s worth noting that college degrees are often not hard to get, assuming you have ample finances. Colleges are businesses, and they care more about cashflow than education.
I have a bachelor of science in electrical engineering. Of my graduating class, probably only about a quarter of us actually understood anything. And now working in the industry, it seems like that’s a pretty reasonable average for other institutions in my field (there are exceptions, a few colleges have higher standards).
I mean, to be fair, electrical engineering is one of the most notoriously difficult to grasp disciplines.
People don’t generally have a great intuitive sense for how pulsed electromagnet waves propagate through 3d space and time.
There are some aspects of the discipline that are hard to grasp–in my experience, it was differential equations and advanced control systems. But those are a pretty small part of the curriculum. The number of people who graduated without demonstrating even basic understanding of rudimentary concepts is alarming, but it explains a large amount of the shitty engineering that exists in the world.
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Depends on the place, I guess. In the US and Canada, it’s pretty common. I’ve attended four different institutions and taught at one, and they’ve all been pretty money-focused.
I had a manager once. Very talented electrical engineer. Completely and totally refused to believe that anything about space, rockets, etc. was real.
wow, im not surprised. i was in a forum where these people had MS/MA degrees in stem. but refuse to follow proper research, and believe in a pseudoscience like chronic lyme(they all convinced they had lyme permanently), most of symptoms sounds like a mental illness, psycosomatic disease. there seems to be a correlation in believing pseudoscience(flat earther, fake diseases) and undiagonised mental illnesses.
I don’t think they’re acting.
I know someone who earns six figures who can’t spell, doesn’t know that he’s Caucasian, doesn’t know the difference between Chinese and Japanese people, thinks it’s a fine idea to sit in a swimming pool during a lightning storm, and once wrote a $1000 check to himself, thinking the bank would honor it and he’d suddenly have an extra $1000 in the bank.
