Intel might have slipped that Windows 12 is indeed coming next year | Company CFO sees benefits of a coming “Windows Refresh”::undefined
new versions of windows just kind of feel like new phones now. It’s good but… who cares?
I can remember as a teen and upgrading from windows 98 to XP felt like jumping into the future.
Or, more recently, getting the first samsung galaxy after having a basic candybar phone.Just seems like more of the same all while charging an arm and a leg for it.
Then xp to vista happened and it looked pretty but was unusable. Then 7 came out and it solved all the BS and was a relief. Then 8 came out and it looked pretty but was unusable. Nobody is quite sure what happened with 9 but 10 was ok I guess, better than 8. Then I started using Linux because I was sick of the bullshit.
9 was skipped because there was concern with old/lazily coded programs running in compatibility mode for Windows 9x versions.
Basically, when the windows versions went from Win95/98/ME to 2000 and XP, some lazy programmers went “well by the time Windows 2090 rolls around I’ll be dead” and just had their programs check the windows version for a 9 when deciding whether or not to run in compatibility mode. If it detected a 9, then it would run in compatibility for 95/98/ME.
Microsoft wanted to avoid this potential issue, so they just skipped version 9 altogether and jumped straight to 10.
Unrelated but didn’t a lot of things about that time skip a few versions to land at 10? Like I don’t think there was an iPhone 9 and so on.
Marketing isn’t a joke, who said that
They also didn’t want to appear to be “behind” OS X.
Regarding why they just jumped to 10, I subscribe to the theory that enough software that required XP or greater checked for OS compatibility by looking for the string “Windows 9*” to catch both 95 and 98
Funny thing. The reputation of Vista is universal, so I don’t doubt it at all. However, I ran Vista starting from beta and never had a problem with it. I must have had the magic hardware combination that worked. My least favourite Windows release was 8.
I was one of the few people who bought the original Surface and I actually loved Windows 8 on that thing. I even used Internet Explorer because the touch interface was fantastic. It all got taken away though.
Vista was more stable and usable for me than xp ever was.
Vista became pretty good after tons of upgrades.
I got a laptop with Vista when it was new and though I’m wasn’t really a Windows fan, I never really had a problem with it. I suppose I had never used XP though.
The stuff that made Vista shitty to most end users wasn’t truly fixed with W7. For the most part W7 was a marketing refresh after Vista had already been “fixed.” Not saying that it was a small update or anything like that, just that the broken stuff had been more or less fixed.
Vista’s issues at launch were almost universally a result of the change to the driver model. Hardware manufacturers, despite MS delaying things for them, still did not have good drivers ready at release. They took years after the fact to get good, stable, drivers out there. By the time that happened, Vista’s reputation as a pile of garbage was well cemented. W7 was a good chance to reset that reputation while also implementing other various major upgrades.
W7 was really just a vista service pack, but they had to rebrand it to make people want it.
I was running an it services business at the time, so got to see a broad number of machines and peoples complaints.
I think the massive jump in ram required was a huge problem, it went from most people having 128mb to 256mb, to a minimum of 512, but a reality of 2gb required.
Plus the indexer was relentless and just smashed HDDs.
Drivers were a problem too but people understood they would need to be have upgrades for their fancy new system.
Plus the indexer was relentless and just smashed HDDs.
I’ll second the issues with the indexer. I disabled it for every disk I had because the additional I/O load for disks was ridiculous. I remember benchmarking game launches with it enabled and disabled to see how much of a difference there would be, and I saw some games take a full minute less to load into a playable state.
I don’t know if I just had more files than the average consumer or what, but they didn’t anticipate the load under certain scenarios.
I finally jumped onto the linux train after the rumour that windows 11 was going to have ads right in windows explorer. I’m glad it never happened but now that i’m on linux for my main PC… i see no reason to go back.
In the programming world, versions with a 9 as a major digit, or most significant minor digit, are considered bad luck. Windows 95 and 98 aren’t considered amongst that bad luck thing though, as they were actually versions 4.0 and 4.1, respectively. 95 and 98 were named after the year they were released, but their internal version numbers did not include a 9. Windows ME was a disaster though, and it’s version number was 4.9…
It’s kinda like how people are superstitious about the number 13, programmers are now superstitious about version numbers with a 9 in the version number now. Windows ME probably at least partly started that.
But hey, that’s just coming from many years of experience with technology starting from the mid 90’s and also a handful of articles I’ve read over about it, who really knows though?
I do believe that version numbers with a 9 in them lead the end users to think “Hey, this is a 0.9, 1.9, 9, whatever, when are they gonna fix all the bugs and release the 1.0, 2.0, 10.0, etc…”
Where are you located? I don’t know any programmer who is afraid of 9. Not even in releases.
We had a year of iterations of X.900, X.910, etc etc. None of us thought that was bad luck. And honestly we implemented some fun features to write.
Versioning is usually done with three numbers, often separated by a period. So Major.Minor.Patch/Hotfix. So we would have X.900 for the first minor version of X.9. If (when) there is a hotfix, that becomes X.901. For a lot of other software it would be X.9.1. Either way, skipping 9 would just cause confusion. I’ve never heard of this superstition and I’ve never seen a software company skip 9 in their versioning.
Was your software meant for internal or corporate use, or was it meant for the average everyday consumer? Internal use is one thing, but the supposed superstition regards the average end user.
It comes off as if there’s no good reason to go for a version 4.9 system, when you might as well wait for them to iron out all the bugs and ship a polished off version 5.
For the end user, this is especially important when you’ll have to pay for version 4.9, only to have to pay all over again for version 5. It’s like in hindsight you knew you were pissing money away on 4.9 in the first place.
This is exactly what happened with Windows ME and Windows 2000, people just pissed their money away on ME. This is also more or less what happened with MacOS 9, people weren’t all too pleased with that either.
Even in my own projects, if I’ve reached version numbering ending in a 9, that generally means I’m working on lots of internal changes, adding lots of features, and it is likely to have bugs. By the time I’m pretty damn sure most of the bugs are ironed out I’ll up the version number and might actually let other people use it.
Edit: If the version numbering is for some background library that end users aren’t necessarily going to have to directly interact with or inspect, then it hardly matters, just go ahead and go sequentially.
Nope. Our software is sold directly to end users. Pretty much any major company has software releases with 9 in it. Discord, dragon, play station, android, apple (watchOS 9), I could list more. And since a lot of software is moving to SaaS, the paying for a 4.9 won’t matter for those, as you just pay a monthly fee. In terms of OS, Ubuntu, Debian, a lot use 9 in their versions.
As for apple and macOS 9? Idk who wasn’t please with it. Just like ME and XP, macOS X was not well received by a lot of the more techy people. Hell, there are still people holding onto macOS 9 to this day. The difference from 9 to X was pretty significant in terms of UI, and people don’t usually like change.
Again, I’m curious where you are in the world because I have literally never heard of this. And I’m a developer so I feel like if that was a thing in my neck of the woods I or one of my friends would have heard of it.
Also, one case in particular, Winamp skipped version 4, because they were known for their skinnable interface.
They didn’t want people ever saying the term ‘Winamp four skins’… 😂🤣
Matters not where I am, if your software is distributed globally, it helps to avoid superstitious numbers from different regions…
May not be more of the same this time around
The very start of that article:
October 6 Update: A newly published report has clarified that the discovered code bits are not related to Windows “12.” Also, the next-gen Windows version will not require a subscription.
windows 11 isnt even the majority of installs yet and they’re trying to push for windows 12? They tried doing “windows as a service” with Windows 10 but that never really manifested either.
I know people whine that Linux users always harp on about Linux, but there’s a better alternative to having a £100 tax on every new laptop you buy, or having to buy a new license every time you upgrade a PC a little too much in one go. Or being locked out of security updates because you dont want to subject your system to adware.
And with the Steam Deck entering the picture, we have a huge company like valve making it even easier to jump ship now. Its the ship jump I used
I love how it’s not even Valve directly, they just threw a huge pile of cash at the Wine team and said “go nuts”, and it’s been a boon for the entirely community.
Yeah pretty weird, considering 11 still feels kinda half baked.
Didn’t the same happen with Windows 7 and 8.1?
Most were still using 7 when 10 was released.
Microsoft and the consumers will be fine.
And no, it still isn’t the year of Linux. Back in 2016 it had somewhat of a chance, but not anymore. And neither with the Windows 12 launch, sorry.
Sure but 8 and 8.1 were famously unpopular though (even though I personally enjoyed the Metro design language).
Windows 11 seems to be received generally well, but what’s the push to upgrade now? Windows 10 being as good as it was has turned it into another 7/XP.
It’s gonna be a slowwwww march for any alternative but Windows doesnt have the benefit of being the best by default anymore – it has to work for it.
There are a few factors at play, I think.
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Microsoft isn’t nearly being as aggressive about pushing free Windows 11 upgrades as they were with Windows 10. Windows Update will offer it to you, but not install it unless you explicitly opt-in.
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Windows 11’s system requirements of a processor from the last 5 years plus TPM being enabled (it was off by default on most motherboards bought before 2022) leaves a lot of users not even being offered the upgrade (they can manually upgrade after jumping through some hoops).
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Windows 10 is still actively supported and will be for a while, removing any impetus for users or organizations to upgrade unless they specifically need some of the new features.
All of this adds up to a substantial portion of Windows 11 installs likely being new machines rather than upgrades.
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The steam deck got me used to Linux, I personally am never going back to Windows
I haven’t even bothered “upgrading” to windows 11 because it still looks terrible.
My work computers have it installed so I use it all the time it’s not bad, it just doesn’t bring anything good to the table. It’s basically a visual update.
Yeah, but I dislike the visual update.
Yep. Hate the curved edges.
There a way to set it back to angled edges without the use of a 3rd party app?
I think you can change it in themes, but I can’t check it because work computers are so locked down.
The one thing I love is the new snapping options of you hover over the maximize button.
So with zero first hand experience then? You’re refusing to upgrade based on memes and conjecture alone.
Sure, you’re well within your right to do so, but it’s not a great system to live life by. People are far more vocal about bad experiences than good ones. Windows 11 has been awesome for me, and as a developer and gamer, I’m on my PC and Mac far longer than the average user. I’ve not had any issues with windows 11 since it came out; the issues with the start menu and whatnot. It feels like it’s cool nowadays to moan about Microsoft products when the reality just doesn’t reflect those complaints.
Try it out for yourself. It’s actually a really good OS: I prefer it over MacOS Sonoma anyday. My dad, who is ‘afraid’ to touch computers in fear of breaking them, told me just last night how much easier Win11 is to use than Win10.
If after all that you still hate it, well, at least then you’ve made an informed decision!
I have it on my work PC, I was talking about not installing it on my home PC.
That’s great, but there are valid concerns about other people’s use cases
I can’t install it on my laptop because it has a hard drive. Immediately not something you can use - it scans files out of the box, making the system unusable. It doesn’t let you just disable it without taking drastic steps, but disabling some features requires group policy. If you use some hacks to disable things, randomly other things break. For example, disabling the firewall breaks Windows Update (?!)
The last good version was Windows 7 where you could actually do 99% of things you wanted with Home edition without any issue.
just because you like it doesn’t mean I have to enjoy using the spyware and windows 11 has been way worse for gaming then 10
My computer is 11 and I hate it more than any previous windows. Each newer version of windows removes features that previous ones had and makes customizing more and more annoying to do. Now that the Steam Deck has got me used to Linux, I wont be coming back to Windows whenever I upgrade my desktop
So with zero first hand experience then You’re refusing to upgrade based on memes and conjecture alone.
Sure, you’re well within your right to do so, but it’s not a great system to live life by. People are far more vocal about bad experiences than good ones. RedStar OS has been awesome for me, and as a developer and gamer, I’m on my PC and Mac far longer than the average user. I’ve not had any issues with RedStar OS since it came out; the issues with the start menu and whatnot. It feels like it’s cool nowadays to moan about North Korea products when the reality just doesn’t reflect those complaints.
Try it out for yourself. It’s actually a really good OS: I prefer it over Windows anyday. My dad, who is ‘afraid’ to touch computers in fear of breaking them, told me just last night how much easier RedStar 11 is to use than RedStar 10.
If after all that you still hate it, well, at least then you’ve made an informed decision!
Thank you, ChatGPT.
I see no compelling reason to accept this “upgrade.”
A new version of windows coming next year isn’t really shocking news.
But Windows 10 was supposed to be the last version, they said so. 🙄
It was for me.
I use Arch btw.
Promise?
No
Fair enough.
Promise.
Microsoft’s marketing department be like “no fucking way you’re getting rid of major version numbers. I don’t care if you’re just tacking shit onto Windows 10, people spend money when there is a big splashy number or release name.”
I dont find it shocking but I do find it odd they’d release a new one so soon. Hasn’t W11 only been out for a year or so?
October 2021, so two years
… pretty much proof positive that win 12 will be subscription-based IMO
Fucking fix your bloated background service’s, every update they add more and more services and background applications that serve little purpose, like the touch screen service that’s running on my fucking desktop that only has a mouse and keyboard
another thing that annoyed me was the useless setting page, when control panel worked fine.
especially since you end up needing to get to control panel to do anything anyway
Do you know where I can find a good list of all the Windows bloatware I can delete? I got most of the obvious ones but I’m thinking of less known ones like 3D viewer
Any bets on this Refresh not supporting 8th-gen and below Intel chips except the Surface Studio for “reasons”?
Still peeved my 5930K isn’t supported, despite still being petty capable.
I wonder if they will provide a “Windows 13” after that.
And another thing in Windows I am waiting for is the moment when they encrypt all your data “for security”, then blackmail you into a subscription service where you can only access your files while you pay your monthly dues. And how long it will take for this being hacked in a way that hackers, microsoft, and the relevant government agencies can all read your data, and you can not.
That won’t happen, or they will get banned in the entire EU.
That would be nice, but it won’t happen. Too many things are sadly hanging on “runs on windows”.
rumored to be an enterprise tier “windows in the cloud” solution . But that doesn’t mean there won’t be an offline solition personal OS where u have basic functionality with ads on the desktop. If you know win11 and xbox new startmenus, expect more of those unmovable ad spots…sorry recommendations
windows refreshcash grabBut why.
Thank god my PC doesn’t have a TPM.
Otherwise, I am just waiting for some industrial software to be usable on Linux (they’re migrating now!) so I can finally drop Windows for good.
if you have a decent cpu it probably has a tpm, which is pretty useful in both windows and linux. like secure passwordless (or data-at-rest) drive encryption
Pop! OS is great.
I like Manjaro
Pop OS is the whole reason I stayed on linux :) Lots of failed linux experiments in its wake previous to that haha
I like Gentoo, but Opensuse Thumbleweed is good alternative
If not 12, an incremental patch release to 11 as a “revamp” version they’ve done with all the others, but no significant changes. Meh.
Maybe they’ll move to the MacOSX model with friendly-named feature updates, but otherwise I don’t see Windows 12 coming out next year.
