As the title says, how often do you admit you’re wrong? Is it different when it’s a factual dispute versus something more subjective?
I make an effort to concede early if I’m in error. I think because my mother almost never admits fault. She’ll fall back to “that’s not what I meant” or similar deflections first, and that’s really annoying.
The last big factual error I made was about the distance of walking, and that’s where I learned about Taxicab Geometry ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicab_geometry ).
I think some people believe admitting fault is a sign of weakness, but I find it’s more of a power move. It takes strength to do it, and people can tell when you’re sweating and desperate. Usually it leads to resolving the conflict faster and cheaper, too.
(I expect some people will feel the urge to reply they’re never wrong. I’ll file that under never admits fault.)
usually it takes me a while to contemplate what the other person just said and whether they’re actually right. sadly by then they’re mostly gone so i can’t tell them.
This is something I need to work on, and its more apparent to me after having a conversation with my mother recently.
She said something quite unpleasant to my bf, and when I said how hurtful it was to both of us I was met with her denial, her refusal to see how hurtful it was and it was my fault for being upset, and also that I should just move on and forget about it
If she’d said that it came out wrong, or was sorry to have said something that had landed in a hurtful way etc that’s all I/we would have needed
Unfortunately i can see this attitude in myself, in the fact I find it near impossible to apologise for anything
I think my mother has a lot of her own issues around this, and I have my own ‘version’ because of my issues (my autism, and the fact that she’s my mum)
So I’m now going to do my best to rethink my behaviour and do some self reflection…
I really don’t want to be like my mother at all
I really don’t want to be like my mother at all
I think this is a big motivator for me. I’ve seen how aggravating it is when someone refuses to admit fault, continuously reaches for excuses and justifications and lies, rather than just shrug and say “Oh. Seems like you were right.” Hell, you don’t even have to explicitly say “I was wrong” most of the time.
I think that it’s natural for people to think they admit when they’re wrong, but it’s also natural to not admit it. As humans we don’t make decisions based on logic, we do it based on emotions. We then instead explain our decisions with logic. I think the usual way people’s minds change is that they’ll effectively be convinced of something but won’t really admit or accept it (or even be consciously aware of it), but then the next time the topic comes up they’ll have the new opinion.
I read an article once about how people change their minds. It cited a long term study that found people who changed their stance on big issues (eg: abortion) often didn’t remember they had ever held the opposite opinion. Not only do people not like to admit changing their minds, sometimes they can’t even consciously realize.
You may like this VSauce video about this topic called The Future of Reasoning. I spent a lot of time in 2020 and 2021 arguing with people online about covid and election fraud. I was under the impression that if someone just calmly, gently, respectfully laid out why they were wrong they’d accept it. I mean, for goodness’s sake, one of the claims I responded to was someone saying something about X number of people voted in some county but there aren’t that many people registered there. I told them it’s easy to debunk and that I just searched Google for the county’s official website and voter registration numbers and, as expected, they were different and higher than the number of people who voted. You wanna know what their response was? “Google is biased.” Even though the information wasn’t from Google, that’s just how I found the site. (And I probably even used duckduckgo but didn’t want to explain that lmao, point still stands.)
This video came to me after I’d already made the conscious decision to just stop doing it for my own mental health. It was really impactful.
Perhaps the most ironic (or unironic) thing is that had I seen this before I had that experience, I may have disagreed with the video.
All the time. People tend not to take it well but that seems their problem.
Also it’s one of the things destroying politics.
Also it’s one of the things destroying politics.
That’s often the previous stop on this train of thought. There are maga people that in their secret heart know they’ve made a mistake, but they struggle to come to terms with that. Though that also carries the fear of losing all their social bonds and being rejected by the group.
Exactly, it’s two sided trained behavior. On one side, no guilt is admitted leading to all downsides of never learning and on the other side there’s a ruthless expectation. It can never work.
Never (I rarely speak)
I tell people I hate being wrong, so the sooner I am corrected or can correct myself the better.
And the answer is… whenever I’m wrong. I am fairly diligent about thinking through what I say and do, but everybody makes mistakes or lacks knowledge, so I am quick to admit being wrong when I am.
Also, counterintuitively, quickly and casually admitting to being wrong often serves to make people forget you were wrong in the first place. My wife and I have had conversations where she admits being wrong (after entirely too much argument), and comments about how I’m never wrong. And I tell her I’m wrong all the time, I just admit it quickly instead of making a big deal about it, so it’s not very memorable. (As we’ve gotten older, those conversations have become more rare, but she still had me 3D print a medal and trophy wall mount, where she gets a “You Were Right” medal or a trophy each time she’s right… like when she convinced me to take my vomiting dog to the vet at night on a weekend and saved his life, and ended up with a dachshund trophy for her wall)
I love the fact that you have a 3d printed dachshund trophy for your wife’s trophy wall
All the fucking time. “I don’t know” are the three most-important words. It’s pretty much the key to everything, you can’t improve without it.
There have definitely been times in my life I refused to admit it. It’s more common if people arguing against me are inflammatory: “LOL, you absolute moron! Take a look at this: (well-researched study)”
I think most recent was doubt towards the accusation Chet Faliszek opposed SKG. I still think it’s not quite as clear cut as being an industry shill, but the guy clearly expects more good faith from major publishers than the rest of us do (having worked for the best one).
It’s more common if people arguing against me are inflammatory: “LOL, you absolute moron! Take a look at this: (well-researched study)”
I try to remember that “The worst person you know just made an excellent point” onion post for times like that.
All the time. I am a mistake machine.
On the Internet? Almost never, I like arguing.
With people I actually know? All the time.
Pretty much daily. I will do it every time I know im wrong. Sometimes I’ll be wrong and not realise it and look like a tube later, but thats life.
The only time I wont willingly admit it is if the other guy is a prick and it won’t do to give them an inch.
The only time I wont willingly admit it is if the other guy is a prick and it won’t do to give them an inch.
At the risk of being seen as a prick myself, I feel like I hear the siren song of that behavior, but man is it unhealthy.
I usually admit right away because the more you deny it the bigger the lie and the problem become
Whenever I’m wrong. I’m more interested in the truth than my feelings.
I try to express my wrongness in a casual way in front of my child or children in general. I aim for them to take away that it’s not a big deal and there is no big stakes in always being right. And if I am right I try to argue facts and attempt to leave personal stakes out of it.
Every time someone is able to convince me I’m wrong, which is not hard to do, I tend to consider things logically, so empirical evidence that I’m wrong will make me flip immediately. Unfortunately most people use very flawed arguments like trying to appeal to emotions or strawmaning my point (or one of the many fallacious things we all have to deal online). And that will not convince me, in fact it only proves you have absolutely no argument. Which is very unfortunate because I’m wrong quite often, and it only takes one person pointing at actual evidence that I’m wrong to make me realize that, yet the majority of my disagreements online end up at an impasse with the person refusing to find common ground to build the debate up.
Unfortunately most people use very flawed arguments like trying to appeal to emotions or strawmaning my point (or one of the many fallacious things we all have to deal online). And that will not convince me, in fact it only proves you have absolutely no argument
One thing I struggle to remember sometimes is someone can make a bad argument, but what they’re arguing for can still be true.
I used to work with a guy that would argue with me, and sometimes at the end he’d be like “I actually agree with your point, but I wanted you to be right for solid reasons”
Of course, it’s also very common for people to be making bad arguments because they’re just feeling stuff, and they’re pulling together whatever words come close to capturing that right now.
Yes, bad arguments can be made about true statements, but people need to understand that you won’t convince anyone with bad arguments, and that discrediting an argument is not the same as discrediting the statement or attacking the person who made it.
For example, just the other day there was a thread about how pitbulls are supposedly more aggressive than other breeds, but the argument they used was “they’re a minority of the population, yet cause the majority of fatalities, therefore they’re aggressive”, which is a TERRIBLE argument that discards all other possible explanations for the observed statistics. It may be true that pitbulls are more aggressive than other dogs, but that argument will never convince me as it’s just plain wrong. And pointing out just how absurd the argument is brought up a bunch of angry people asserting pitbulls are aggressive and attacking me personally for discrediting the logic.
I used to work with a guy that would argue with me, and sometimes at the end he’d be like “I actually agree with your point, but I wanted you to be right for solid reasons”
Yeah, I do that as well, I call it playing devil’s advocate, it’s helpful to be sure the decisions you’re reaching are actually the best ones.
