Windows is slowly transitioning from a paid and solid OS to freemuim spyware bloated dumb OS.
Slowly? This crap has been going on for years.
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Windows 8(.1) was still utter trash, I actually "down"graded to windows 7 at the time and it was a bliss.
(it wasn’t the non-stop-ads kind of trash, but the UI suited a tablet more than a desk/laptop)
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If only every Windows install came with an internet exploder! We wouldn’t have to read Elon Musk X fluff pieces on the news ever single day. And privacy concerns… What privacy concerns?
Yeah slowly, it started years ago but it’s been getting worse every version, slowly
The freemium model was launched and completed with Win10.
Would that not be slowly? What would you call slowly in this context?
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Decades.
I don’t recall such issues with Win98 or XP
Dude, that was 22 years ago… I also remember Prince of Persia as if it were yesterday
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I miss Windows Vista.
The arrow pointing downwards is about to be absolutely destroyed today. Edit: it turns out that it didn’t.
Vistas problem was that it was ahead of its time
I both agree and disagree with that statement.
Windows finally got animations and transparency when Mac OS has beaten it by 6 years. Truly an oomph moment.
Windows finally got animations and transparency when Mac OS has beaten it by 6 years. Truly an oomph moment.
The actual technological advancement of Vista was userspace graphics drivers.
Also correct.
Yeah, XP did that with most of the drivers other than graphics, which lead to a reduction in BSOD crashes (because if a user thread crashes, the OS just kills it and continues on, but an unhandled kernel error will crash the entire OS to a generic “turn the screen blue, report and error, and log it, if possible”).
Vista further improved this by moving most of the graphics driver code out of kernel land.
I sort of agree with you, but not in the way I think you meant it.
Vista’s problem was that it’s hardware requirements were too high for it’s time. Operating systems have very long project development lifecycle and at a point early on they did a forward looking estimate of where the PC market would be by the time Vista released, and they overshot. When it was almost ready to release it to the world Microsoft put out the initial minimum and recommended specs and PC sellers (Dell, HP, Gateway) lobbied them to lower the numbers; the cost of a PC that met the recommended specs was just too high for the existing PC market and it would kill their sales numbers if they started selling PCs that met those figures. Microsoft complied and lowered the specs, but didn’t actually change the operating system in any meaningful way - they just changed a few numbers on a piece of paper and added some configurations that let you disable some of the more hardware intensive bits. The result was that most Vista users were running it on hardware that wasn’t actually able to run it properly, which lead to horrible user experiences. Anyone that bought a high end PC or built one themselves and ran Vista on that, however, seemed quite happy with the operating system.
I used to dual boot linux with windows Vista on an old laptop. I had only installed there the first assassin’s creed and Rome total war. Nothing else, never really connected to internet. After 1 year of not using it a part than few total war sessions, vista was so slow that was unusable. It spontaneously became slow for no reason. I completely removed it, left only linux, and that laptop survived 7 years of intensive use, and was still working 10 years later (just too old).
Vista was a scam
Good for you, I’m never gonna get convinced.
I had no problems with Vista. I also built a new PC for it though.
Very similar story here: I bought a new computer that shipped with Vista.
I got horrendously tired of that Pentium 4 thing.
Windows 2000 🫶
Even though Windows is very user-friendly. I think Windows 11 might be my last. The amount of anti-privacy that’s implemented and what I have to do just so it doesn’t constantly phone back home is kind of ridiculous.
Off to pick my flavor of Linux.
I find it strange that people call it user-friendly, despite it doing a lot of things hostile to the user.
Just more in the neighborhood of being used or understanding something because it has been given to them from a very young age on. So getting familiar and used to it very young age on makes it “friendly” even though it is more “familiarity”.
Linux is always going to be really awkward at first but over the course of time you learn and shy away and develop your own kinda workflow and that’s the beauty of it in my opinion.
Because user-friendly means that even a tech-noob can easily set it up and use it right away without much researching.
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If an OS requires ANY AMOUNT of command line, you have lost about half the population.
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If an OS asks any remotely difficult question with techno lingo, you have lost an other quarter.
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If an OS doesn’t work out of the box the way it should (like all their hardware functioning including audio), you have lost all the other not technology inclined people.
Windows is setup that it requires none of that. It may do something that you find horrific, but most people do not care as long as it works.
Windows devices are set up like that.
If you give someone a blank hard drive and Windows install media, they need to to all of those things.
Have you installed Windows 10 or 11 lately?
The most difficult part are the partitions, but even that is done mostly automatically and doesn’t allow you to continue if your setup wouldn’t work.
It comes with decent default drivers for most generic hardware, and automatically installs drivers for more exotic hardware if it supports Windows Updates.
And it most definitely does not require a single command line.
Maybe some technical jargon, but even that you can just skip by pressing next and it won’t fuck up anything.
Linux works exactly like that too, unless you start tinkering with it
Yes, it required a command line to perform disk partitioning and even a basic pre-erase.
It also asked about 20 more questions than necessary, and I had to answer “no” to each and every one of them.
Where Linux asks for a username, Windows insisted multiple time that I had to create an account. The only workaround was to physically unplug the Ethernet cable.
There’s also a step where you need to lie about your regional settings to avoid getting plastered with preinstalled trash.
If you blindly click “next” through a Windows install, you will get the most bloated, horrible, invasive experience possible.
There Windows installer is an absolute fucking minefield.
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newbie or somewhat experienced user?
I would say I know the basics of Linux due to owning a Pi and messing around with it time-to-time but no where near experienced.
TL; DR: From personal experience as a Raspberry Pi tinkerer and Windows evacuee, I recommend Linux Mint.
Raspberry Pi OS is essentially Debian compiled for ARM with the LXDE desktop. They used to use LXDE, and it is my understanding they forked LXDE to make their “Pixel” desktop. Being Debian, it uses the APT package manager with .deb packages.
Linux Mint is a fork of Ubuntu, which itself is a fork of Debian. It uses the APT package manager and .deb packages. The exact same commands to install, say, LibreOffice on a Raspberry Pi can be used to install it on Linux Mint.
Cinnamon is the flagship desktop, and I think is a reasonable answer to “What if Microsoft had kept developing the Windows 7 desktop instead of trying to make a tablet OS?” I chose Cinnamon pretty immediately because it felt more like the Windows I had grown up with than Windows 8.1 did.
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Up to date… on Debian… lol 🤣
/s (somewhat)
I think Fedora and Ubuntu are easy recommendations!
and Ubuntu
No. It’s way too complicated to circumvent Canonical’s attempts at vendor lock-in. One might just as well pick a more open distribution from the beginning.
most users simply do not care. if it works, it works
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That’s a good justification for them to stick with Windows.
Fedora is nice. You might also like PopOS or Majaro.
How easy is it to move user data and software to another distro if I decide to change it up?
Not too hard, especially if you plan on running the same software on your new distro. Basically, all of the settings are in your home directory (/home/[username]/), so you could just copy everything from your home directory and that’s that.
Not only that, but you could also set up your home dir to be on another partition or drive. Basically, you don’t have to copy anything if you set up your distro like this. You just point the new distro to your former home directory, this is home now, and it’ll just use all of the settings from there. Sure, some settings and files are distro specific, but you can manually delete those if you want to free up a few MB of space.
“YOU KNOW WHY I CLICK LATER? BECAUSE THERE’S NO OPTION TO CLICK NEVER! I’D LIKE TO CLICK NEVER! I NEVER WANT TO DOWNLOAD THESE STUPID BULLSHIT FUCKING UPDATES EVER AGAIN!”
Then click that you aren’t interested.
That setting may not scream in your face, but it is far from hidden.
proton is pretty much there, thinking to jump ship to linux - already use it in all my work for decades
2024 the year of Linux. As long as we can avoid the toxic “don’t use Mint, use Arch instead users”.
Also the memey “xxxx the year of Linux”. Because that’s been going on for 40+ years now. 😅 You use it, or you don’t. Your OS is a tool, not a belief system.
This person gets it
I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.
Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called “Linux”, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.
There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine’s resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called “Linux” distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.
Was that really necessary?
It’s a copypasta.
True it’s a tool. Just like a car. We get attached to one way of working with that tool, but then advancements come and a different tool starts to look interesting. Think gas->electric windows/mac->Linux.
Year of Linux on the consumer PC. Linux has been dominating the server space for… 40+ years now.
That’s interesting, I remember reading a post to comp.os.minix about 32 years ago about a Finnish student who made his own OS. It was just a kernel that barely worked. Wish I’d known it was already dominant in the server space for over 8 years, could have gotten a head start!
I hope that student’s project turned out ok, even if it’s not big and professional like GNU. Did he ever add support for non-AT hard disks?
I’m not quibbling with nerds over the timeline, I was just echoing the original poster’s words.
So Linux has been dominating the server space since before it existed? Cool!
According to the last magazine I checked about this, 1997 is actually going to be the year of Linux on the desktop.
And this housing bubble is totally going to burst any day now, too.
Every year is “The Year of Linux.”
But you should be using Arch instead ot Mint.
(I use Arch BTW)
It’s the only reasonable solution.
(I too use Arch btw)
No, do not use Arch
(I too? use Artix BTW)
Honestly, I’ve been thinking about switching to Linux with my next system since about a month after I built my current system, over 4 years ago. That’s how long it took for me to be sick of Microsoft’s bullshit in Windows 10.
That said, I’m not looking forward to figuring out how to get into Linux. It’s probably easier than I think, but having done 0 research (as I don’t need a new system yet), the impression I have is that there’s a ton of stuff I’m going to have to figure out before getting started.
Try a live CD. It’s easy to get started without hearing a bunch of stuff.
Start with a live CD version (a USB thumb drive acts as your C: ) or a virtual machine (like VirtualBox and install Linux on it) just to try things out. Then do a full switch when ready.
If you’ve got a spare USB drive, have a look at Ventoy. It’s a program that lets you put multiple ISOs (disc images) onto a drive and select which one to boot from at startup.
Most distros have free bootable ISOs to download, which let you try that distro without installing it. They usually have an installer built in so that you can install your chosen distro from a desktop environment.
Installation is probably the trickiest part, but even that’s not too bad as long as you pay attention. Once you’re on the desktop, it’s as easy to use as Windows.
Yeah, you’re right about the last part.
I mean, if you like knowing what your machine is doing, Arch is one of the best options.
Gentoo is for when you want to know what your compiler is doing.
It’s also ironically easier to use day-to-day than some other commonly suggested distros. Sure something like Mint or Pop_OS is much much easier to set up but later on when you need a newer version or something that isn’t in the repos. Too bad! That doesn’t exist. Time hunt down a PPA and hope it’s trustworthy.
With Arch 99.9% of the time if it’s not in the main repos it’s in the AUR. And since it’s rolling there’s no worry of doing the big upgrades (been seeing plenty of posts about issues with the transition from Fedora 38 -> 39 lately). I have daily driven Arch for almost 10 years now and there have only been a handful of times across that whole span where a
pacman -Syuactually broke something.debian has never broken anything here in twenty+ years of use. I’VE broken shit, but debian never has.
It’s comparatively easy to not break things if you’re like ten years behind. 😉 But sure, Debian takes pride in its stability. I just like having recent versions of everything.
To be fair it is always my fault when things break not Arch’s. It’s not like Arch does anything on its own.
Completely agree. Ran Arch for about 10 years and had like three breakages that were all my fault (didn’t read news before a manual intervention. Once the battery died). But every time I could fix that by booting the current live image. No data loss.
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Yes support from a major company would set a Linux flavor as a general public friendly option. Right now the fracture between all the Linux versions is a deterrent for beginners.
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Thanks for the heads up, I was Ubuntu install it. /s
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Don’t use Mint or Arch, use Void!
Just command line.
I really thought it’s harder, I really did… turns out it’s not.
2 basic set of commands for upgrading and purging: xbps-install -Suv and xbps-remove -ROov, that’s it.
Even on my Mac I end up pulling Terminal more and more to do things. Not everything though but some things are easier.
To be completely honest… I’m more comfortable with the terminal now.
Asimilation complete 🤣.
shit dude, that’s about the only place where I have to use windows 😂.
I have a feeling people here like Linux…
on lemmy are you shure ?
I use a Mac!
But you’ve installed Linux on it, right?
No. But I pay for apps that offer me the built in features I get on Linux. Like… Setting per app audio output.
We don’t have a choice.
Please do not let Linux find out I said this, I have kids.
I was actually going to put it on an older laptop the other week, but Ubuntu wouldn’t run on it.
This was after spending an hour trying to get into the BIOS, only to find that the keyboard doesn’t actually work before the Windows splash screen comes up… I mean who the fuck designs it like that?
Also the drive bay doesn’t fit the SSD properly, so it just boot loops if you use the little caddy. Refuses to even Post.
Now I hate computers again.
What laptop was it so the rest of us can avoid this tomfoolery in the future?
Acer 5742. It’s old (and more importantly, free), but with a first gen i5 and 6GB RAM I thought it would still be able to run basic Ubuntu.
On the plus side, you could access the drive and RAM through a detachable panel, without needing to pull the whole machine to pieces, or be prevented from upgrading it entirely. Which is another thing that’s becoming depressingly rare.
Acer seems like a bit of a grabbag when it comes to quality.
Hold shift when you click restart in windows, you can access the firmware through windows recovery.
Only with UEFI. This wasn’t that. I initially thought it was Windows 10 fucking with Fastboot and causing it to skip.
This was after spending an hour trying to get into the BIOS, only to find that the keyboard doesn’t actually work before the Windows splash screen comes up… I mean who the fuck designs it like that?
Does your laptop have multiple usb ports? And did you try them all?
I had this issue even on my PC until I tried a bunch of different USB ports and found one that worked.
Uhh I just realized that since it’s a laptop the keyboard is part of the laptop… Well I’ll still leave this in case it helps anyone
Yeah, I had to plug in a USB keyboard in the end.
New convert here, it’s mostly dope. Edit: here as in on linux
psst… I hear you’re looking to ditch Microsoft. You might like what you see over at c/linux
uuu, nice, smooth 😏 👍
This grinds my gears. Apple does the same: my work MBP nags me daily to enable iCloud backups but I have no way of doing it because Apple login is disabled by my administrator. Consequently, I cannot reach the settings page to tell Mac to fuck off.
You can’t ask IT to disable it for you?
I should, you’re right.
Is there a newbie way to install it? It looks pretty convoluted…
The best way to install is to use a LIVE edition. This is useful beacuse you have a nice installer intergrated and you can try it before you have to install the OS on the computer.
For download of this edition, see www.debian.org/CD/live
From there, if you come from Windows, I would raccomend KDE, as it is stable and customizable. Search “KDE screenshot” to see what it looks like, and if you like it.
If you want this, here the direct URL to download: https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/debian-live-12.2.0-amd64-kde.iso
Debian should also be lite enough for older machines, and it is the most stable distro I’ve tried. With this OS, there are already web browser, media player, office suite,… but you can also download Steam, emulators and lots of software
For help you can DM me.
Thanks! I’ve installed, Ubuntu, KDE, a real old Red Hat, and most recently Linux Mint. Usually dual boot with Windows with either separate SSDs or on the same SSD. Thankfully they have come along ways and you don’t need to rebuild the GRUB every time windows did a update.
I’ve seen Debian is the king of Linux Distros but whenever I’ve looked into a install it seems like a beast. I’ll check out these links!
It’s easier than installing Windows. The problem is that someone hasn’t already done it for you.
Check out ubuntu if you want something thats easy to install. It’s very popular, it’s based on Debian and it has corporate backing but no spyware
- get your perferred iso
- do a checksum if available (basecally check the signature of the original file with yours, the checksum often is available on the website)
- get beleana etcher or i think rufus can also do linux isos but i’n not shure
- get an usb stick with min 4gb
- flash iso onto usb stick
- stick usb stick into perferred pc
- boot onot that usb stick (for my motherboard it’s F10 but that can be different for you)
- boot into the live iso and the installer should pop up
- read the instructions of the installer carefully
- you are done enjoy your new os
although i would recommend playing around with different distros in a vm to see waht you like and if all your needed software is available
It is Linux, so no
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I see this is your first day with a Windows computer. Welcome.
Why don’t you just turn those notifications off?
If I use Windows I use a fully patched IoT LTSC 2019, with O&O ShutUp at somewhat recommended settings.
I have a Win7 on my PC which I only use for gaming but Steam is telling me it’ll stop working on Win7 in about 80 days or so. I installed Win7 on it for a reason but soon it’ll be my first ever computer running Linux.
This is the way
I’m just curious… You are ok with not installing any security updates for months (or even years)?
I guess so. I don’t really think about that. As long as stuff works on my end I don’t worry about updating it. I’d be happy if I could just install the security updates because updating the OS generally just breaks stuff and slows things down.
I’ve always been a power user but never minded Windows until W11. Luckily WSL was a great gateway drug for me and I ended up switching to Linux full-time after living inside WSL for a few weeks.
There’s a tool for making bootable windows USB drives called Rufus that gives you options to remove things like requiring a Windows account, TPM requirement for Windows 11, secure boot, etc when you’re cloning the iso to the USB drive.
Oh wow! I’ve used Rufus a handful of times to make bootable windows USB drives and I never knew this
Still bugging people about to connect an account
If I had known it was possible to make a local account instead of having to use my outlook for my desktop, I totally would have gone that route a couple years ago. Only plus side I can think of for not doing it is that I have immediate access to my outlook.
Outlook would store your credentials anyway.
Only if you use it.
I doubt I would have even logged into my outlook if I didn’t set up my Microsoft account, so it helped me there at least.
Lol… Fair enough. I don’t use that shit on my personal machines but sometimes will for work.
For me it’s just an old account I use because out of all my emails, it’s the most professional one. I wouldn’t dare try to use my other ones for anything serious.
