Hope this is the beginning of Israel’s transformation into an isolated and boycotted rogue state.
Or, even better, the beginning of Isreal’s transformation into a country where people see through the bullshit of the far-right and elect decent leaders, leaving Netanyahu to rot in prison.
Going by the general trend around the world lately, that’s a very unlikely outcome.
A lot of Israelis are blaming Netanyahu for the war, the Supreme Court of Israel struck down his constitutional reform, and thanks to him Israel can no longer take the support of their oldest allies completely for granted. The relationship between the US and Israel was already at an all-time low before all this thanks to Netanyahu being a piece of shit.
Of course, there’s also the flip side of the coin: Netanyahu has always had a fear based platform, and the political climate lends itself well to that at the moment. There’s always a rally behind the flag effect, and elections are still far away. So even if he loses the next election in a landslide that might be too late. Frankly it has been too late for many years already.
So all in all I agree in not being incredibly optimistic.
It’s a nice thought, but until US policy changes, Israel is bulletproof.
You’re right. Given demographic changes in the US, I do think it’s only a matter of time before most Americans consider Israel to be an albatross around their necks.
I’ve disliked Israel govt for decades. Fuck Bibi and the IDF.
Can you seperate Bibi and the current government from the Israeli people and it’s potential to elect a moderate government?
What is the general public opinion in Israel? Any large number of Israelis opposed to this genocide?
It’s not a genocide and no there is massive support for this war against Hamas.
Is this your professional opinion as an expert in international law, or?
Oh fuck off, Israel and their global backers are continuing their century-long campaign to take Palestine and remove/kill Palestinians. Hamas is just a recent development which happens to neatly justify this period of Israeli colonial violence.
After Hamas runs its course (however that ends up happening), then do you think Israel will back off? Of course not and the idea is preposterous.
Israel was founded in 1948. How was Israel backing a campaign to kill Palestinians for twenty four years prior to its existence? Also, if Israel’s goal is to kill all Palestinians, why are daily death tolls going down and why are there any buildings still standing in Gaza and the West Bank?
If you’re going to correct people you should probably get the details right.
Settlement started long before the founding of Israel, afterall there must be citizens to start a country.
It really got going in 1917 when, after WW1 and the carving up of the Ottoman empire, Britain was like “fuck me but that looks like a good place to shove Jewish people innit?”.
Others have mentioned the history info you lack here so I won’t tackle that. I have another question:
Do you recall any other significant events at 1948 though?
Yes. This is a campaign to remove Hamas and then it will end.
You don’t know what you’re talking about or why Hamas exists. Ehud Barak is more capable of empathizing than you, when he was asked what would you do if he were a Palestinian he said he’d fight.
If I were Palestinian I would be hoping Hamas is removed.
I am actually Palestinian. I hope for Israel to end its genocide.
Same for Hamas. Only one side in this conflict can end this conflict and its not Israel, unfortunately.
Why do you think that? 🤔
Hamas has always been genocidal towards Jews, and they always will be.
High or dumb?
Hamas hasn’t effectively hit Israel since the festival, Israel has killed like 6 people for every one.
How exactly do you see Hamas ending anything?
I know guys like you live for the comments people make when they’re upset by how much of a giant price of shit you’re being, but I’ll go for the bait.
You’re genuinely an empathyless, morally bankrupt pycho. I hope you have no loved ones.
Im certainly not. You can go for it again.
The same world court created after the holocaust — an institution conceived of and supported by the Nuremberg prosecutor, also a Jew.
This is a great joke … but the fact that people are actually debating this perception of Israel should make people stop and think.
The USA could. By by ending the free weapons and money deliveries…
I mean, we probably won’t, for reasons I don’t understand.
It’s not that complicated. It’s because Iran has the goal of destroying Israel and killing everyone Jew in the middle east, and because Israel obviously isn’t going to just surrender Tehran. The resultant war would kill tens of millions of people, compared to the 26,000 that have died in this war. So no we won’t probably won’t, we definitely won’t.
There sure is a lot of talk about how supposedly everyone in the Middle East wants to kill every Jew on the planet, but only Israel is carrying out genocide there. Also, it was the Germans who killed six million Jews and then Europe pushed Jews to Palestine and somehow it’s all the fault of people in the Middle East?
Think how much the middle east would change if the USA hadn’t overthrown the Iranian government
Yeah that sure backfired.
Iran can’t take Israel, Israel has nukes.
The question is, can Israel broker peace? With all these American weapons and cash, they have no interest in brokering peace, but without that support, maybe their incentives will change.
We could pull that support tomorrow, they’ll be fine. I have 0 concerns.
If US support for Israel doesn’t concern Iran, why would Israel’s incentive change without it?
The US and our allies try to keep Iran contained not just for Israel but for the world. Look, the Jews are in Israel. Iran will never accept it, not in our lifetimes. They will weirdly, very proudly die trying if they get the chance. Such a war will kill tens of millions of people, displace tens of millions more, and lead to a cascade of failed states.
I believe it’s a question of when Iran attacks Israel not if. I mean, they already have. The tunnels in Gaza were built with Iranian money. The 3,000 thermobaric rockets Hamas launched at Israel on October 7 came from Iran.
America’s strong military alliance with Israel is arguably the most significant part of western strategy in the middle east, the thing that keeps Iran from going frog.
If US support for Israel doesn’t concern Iran, why would Israel’s incentive change without it?
Of course it concerns Iran. Why would you assume otherwise? And Israel’s incentives would change because without the support they can’t really hold up against Iran militarily, so diplomacy becomes a better option.
They will weirdly, very proudly die trying if they get the chance. Such a war will kill tens of millions of people, displace tens of millions more, and lead to a cascade of failed states.
Meh, scare mongering. Also, your numbers are probably way off, Israel only has a population of 9 mil, I can’t really see tens of millions of deaths and also tens of millions displaced. The region is just not that big.
America’s strong military alliance with Israel is arguably the most significant part of western strategy in the middle east, the thing that keeps Iran from going frog.
America’s military alliance is a sneaky, immoral way to keep a small hot war going for a century so we always have a testing ground for new weapons. That’s why America continues to support Israel. I want no part in it and it haunts me that so many of my tax dollars go into funding this cruelty, making me responsible.
Iran has a population of 100,000,000 and Israel will turn it into a parking lot of given half a chance.
That’s fair, but it would also show their true intentions and turn the world against them. As seen with Russia, the world doesn’t like it when you commit atrocities, and they’ll band together to make it more difficult for you. As a result, I don’t see them actually using nukes on Iran. Nukes have always been a better deterrent than a weapon.
I expect that they would keep Iran at bay by doubling down on their rhetoric to get the most out of their nuclear deterrent (just like Russia has). But being the smaller nation (by a lot) and also being generally outnumbered in the region by Islam, I don’t see them invading Iran, the odds would be impossibly against them.
Tell it to the judge.
They’ll look to daddy USA and nothing will happen.
The world court can do two things. First, arbitrate between two consenting states who agree to abide by the decision. Second, issue advisory rulings which have absolutely no functional authority. America doesn’t have to step in. Nation states around the world wouldn’t have signed onto a world court that could actually compel them to obey, we all like our sovereignty.
Which is ironic because as citizens of these countries we don’t get that choice regarding the laws we’re compelled to obey.
America doesn’t have to step in.
Do you think that will stop them?
America likes Israel the way it is. I honestly don’t know why any more, but America will not step in because America doesn’t want to step in. Biden’s popularity is in freefall because he refuses to do anything about America’s complicity in this genocide–yet, he still does nothing. There must be a reason that overrides the compelling case to end a genocide, but I don’t know what it is. He doesn’t even have to send troops, he just has to stop sending them aid. He won’t even do that. Idgi, but the fact stands that America will not step in.
Here’s the “why”:
"Israel is the largest American aircraft carrier in the world that cannot be sunk, does not carry even one American soldier, and is located in a critical region for American national security. "
~Alexander Haig
It’s because behind both parties is a unified force known as the military industrial complex, which loves any excuse to make and sell weapons.
Say our government decides to send 100 million dollars in military aid to another country. Most, if not all, of that 100 million is sent as physical armaments rather than actual currency. The government gives companies like Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Northrop Grumman, etc the actual money for this aid effort, and their products (weapons of war) are what is sent along as aid.
As it turns out, companies like the aforementioned love any excuse to sell more weapons, and carry large amounts of sway with politicians on both sides of the aisle, so they pressure those sales to continue.
I’m rewatching Oliver Stone’s JFK from 1991 … and when you listen to Costner’s monologue from the real life Jim Garrison explaining the motivation of why JFK was assassinated and eliminated, the Military Industrial Complex was at the top of the list.
Just the actions of what happened the day after the assassination speaks volumes … the new president Lyndon Johnson stepped back JFK’s original plans to withdraw from Vietnam and made promises to his military that they would continue the war.
They didn’t just kill a president in 1963, they signed the death warrant for two hundred thousand American soldiers and a million Vietnamese.
JFK also wanted to shut down the CIA and was critical of Israel.
As a companion piece to that great film witch doesn’t even scratch the surface of the tragedy in 1963, I urge you to read or listen to the the book “LBJ - Mastermind of the JFK Assassination” by Phillip F Nelson.
It’s absolutely fascinating and brings up more than a few irrefutable points. Seriously, give it a read or listen. (I personally prefer the audiobook).
It’s 27 hrs long…
any excuse
Not quite any excuse though. The world is full of conflicts, we still get a choice about which ones we’re involved in, and on which side. If the M-I complex wants to build weapons, build them for Ukraine and nobody in the west will object. Build them to stop genocides, of which we still have multiple options. We love to build and sell weapons, yes, but we also usually make an effort to provide a moral veneer over it. Israel’s moral veneer has long vanished, and yet we still choose to be on that side of the conflict. That is what I don’t understand.
The only hypothesis I have is that Israeli money is funneled to election funds. Like, if Dems anger zionists, Republicans will win the election. I don’t know if that’s true but I haven’t found any other explanation yet.
Oh no, you misunderstood.
I’m saying America will step in to protect Israel from facing any kinds of consequences. It’s like he said, if Israel didn’t exist we’d have to create it.
I think the US is about done with Netanyahu. The media is already starting to talk about the fractures between him and Biden.
Biden better fucking wrap that up soon.
Biden isn’t going to do a damn thing to fundamentally alter our Israel policy. He’s been hawkish on Palestine for decades, and despite how much the youth vote disapproves of the war, there’s also a substantial part of the base as well as independents who strongly support Israel.
There have been several opinion polls recently showing that a majority of Americans support Israel over Palestine, even as Israel has killed 20x as many people as Hamas.
Biden is in zugzwang. Keep supporting Israel’s slaughter, and the youth vote will stay home. Oppose it, and he’ll be labeled a Hamas sympathizer or an anti-Semite. Continue to do nothing, and he looks weak and ineffective. Every move is the wrong move.
What can the judge do? Invade them?
Ultimately nothing concrete. Presently.
Exactly. It’s incredibly hard to make genocide charge stick, especially when Hamas do built tunnel under the city and Netanyahu is hiding behind Hamas while doing whatever he want with Gaza, he know it takes years for the judgement and appeal, by the time the final judgement came out Netanyahu would’ve already done serving his term and they would’ve already shape Palestine to whatever they wanted. The court literally can’t stop him.
You’re right. My only hope is for the soft power of a legal finding to have some unknown knock-on effects down the road. The whole situation is like a puzzle with only bad solutions… like the box from hellraiser but literally worse.
I guess Israel doesn’t let religion get in the way of its politics.
I would like to see him proven wrong.
… and when you’ve got the US in your back pocket they let you do it. You can do anything
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Haha funny. Still the world’s only super power.
That’s why the shrieking about China has been amplified lately.
Dictatorships fundamentally cannot compete with democracies, as the incentives of the dictator do not align with good outcomes for the population or country
Yet inequality keeps growing in these so-called democracies. There are ups and downs to all systems. China benefits from having the ability to carry out long-term projects. Of course, they are at the whims of Xi Jinping, but if the plans are sound then they will benefit from the commitment. Take climate change, for example, where the US pulled out of the Paris climate agreement just because Trump got elected. Meanwhile China has been at the forefront of battery and solar tech manufacturing. It’s not out of benevolence, just mainly because they don’t have much oil of their own, plus it’s a market they plan on cornering. For another example, look at the crumbling US infrastructure where funding struggles to get passed with all the squabbles between the two dominant parties.
Either way, it’s not as simple as labeling something either a dictatorship or a democracy and claiming something WILL follow. After all, a lot of these so-called democracies are more like plutocracies.
Inequality is not some inherently bad thing.
At the levels it’s at now? It absolutely is. You’d maybe have a point if everyone’s base needs are being met, but it’s not even close.
If given the choice, would you solve inequality if it made everyone 10k poorer?
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Damn do I want Macron to send a tactical nuke through Bibi’s window so bad. But he’s a fucking shill
