This has happened once before and they reversed it. But they said this last time too:

The discussions that have happened in various threads on Lemmy make it very clear that removing the communites before we announced our intent to remove them is not the level of transparency the community expects, and that as stewards of this community we need to be extremely transparent before we do this again in the future as well as make sure that we get feedback around what the planned changes are, because lemmy.world is yours as much as it is ours.

https://lemmy.world/post/3234363

  • Admiral Patrick@dubvee.org
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    8 months ago

    Lemmy world:

    Users, not even on Lemmy World or directly affected by this:

    Pissed Pikachu with torch and pitchfork

    I’m not in the loop or even involved with LW’s admin affairs, but I would imagine there was a letter or email to them or their service provider that prompted that and likely named those communities specifically. Going out on a limb, I would guess the community removal was a timely response to something like that, and based on LW’s history, an announcement will probably be coming soon-ish.

    Before you grab your torches and pitchforks, remember: Pretty much every Lemmy instance is run by volunteers that don’t have legal departments.

    • Warl0k3@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      “The cloud is just other people’s computers” - It’s inconvenient, but those computers are real, physical objects subject to oversight from real, physical law enforcement.

    • Neuromancer@lemm.ee
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      8 months ago

      Remember: Pretty much every Lemmy instance is run by volunteers that don’t have legal departments

      One lawsuit can shut them down.

      • Potatos_are_not_friends@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        Never understood people who don’t get this.

        As a person who is part of open source communities, on various chairs and donates, the money is extremely slim, and the people involved just want to build cool things.

        We are busy trying to keep the lights on for hundreds of thousands of people can enjoy this service. And if a small group of troublemakers force us to get a strong legal threat, we aren’t risking the the project’s survival for them.

        Especially when we don’t know the troublemakers, don’t have any connection with them, they don’t contribute to the platform, etc.

    • GreatAlbatross@feddit.uk
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      8 months ago

      This is precisely it.
      One other point is, some instance want to focus on certain things, and take the risks, where others don’t.
      Our community feddit.uk doesn’t do nsfw, because it’s not worth the headache for what our main focus is.
      The guy running lemmynsfw on the other hand, is enthusiastically embracing the challenges involved, and more power to him!

      And in the end, it works. We handle Mr. Brains Pork Balls, they can handle…other balls.

      • Admiral Patrick@dubvee.org
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        8 months ago

        Our community feddit.uk doesn’t do nsfw, because it’s not worth the headache for what our main focus is.

        Same for my instance and for the same reasons. We have nothing against that, just, like you said, not our focus nor worth the headache.

        And in the end, it works. We handle Mr. Brains Pork Balls, they can handle…other balls.

        🤣

    • satxdude@lemm.eeOP
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      8 months ago

      The thing that gets me is the quote in the OP from last time this happened. It has been +12 hours of silence when you said last time they’d have this discussion BEFORE. Maybe it’s for legal reasons but you’d think they’d have said well, something.

    • antidote101@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      Are you telling me Reddit is free to have a Piracy sub, but Lemmy isn’t?

      What’s the point of Lemmy if Reddit is more free?

      • Admiral Patrick@dubvee.org
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        8 months ago

        Reddit is an American company, subject to American laws, that has a legal department (i.e. has lawyers on retainer). Lemmy World, like most other instances, is run by volunteers and donations and is subject to the laws where it’s hosted and/or where its operators reside.

        When you receive a takedown / DMCA / whatever legal mumbo-jumbo applies to your jurisdiction, you have two choices:

        • Comply immediately
        • Fight it in court

        The first option is free. The second option costs a lot of money if you don’t already have lawyers on retainer and can cost even more money if the court rules against you.

        Sucks, but that’s the way it is.

        Again, I’m only speculating that was the case here. However, given Germany is one of the jurisdictions LW is accountable to, it’s not that wild of a guess.

        In most EU nations, piracy is usually not even a blip on the radar for security forces and internet providers. Things seem to work completely differently in Germany, where breaking copyright law can carry a sentence of up to three years in jail, alongside a large fine and trial costs. - Source


        What’s the point of Lemmy if Reddit is more free?

        That’s such a broad question that I’m not even going to bother. Instead, I’ll answer with the same question as when “states’ rights” are brought up:

        States’ rights Free to do what, exactly?”

        You’re also free to run your own instance and accept all the legal liabilities that come with that.

        • lambalicious@lemmy.sdf.org
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          8 months ago

          When you receive a takedown / DMCA / whatever legal mumbo-jumbo applies to your jurisdiction, you have two choices:

          Comply immediately
          Fight it in court
          

          You actually have a third option: file a DMCA Counternotice. If my reading is correct, the very act of filing the counternotice allows you to keep the content up unless the original filer “insists” (it’s the mechanism against “DMCA trolling”). DMCAis not a jail-free card to erase content from the internet.

          • Admiral Patrick@dubvee.org
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            8 months ago

            Possibly, but the DMCA is strictly a US thing. The comply or fight in court are the only two somewhat universal options.

            Other countries have other similar laws, though. LW’s TOS says they’re under legal jurisdiction of Finland, The Netherlands, and Germany. Not sure what their laws are like, but Germany seems pretty strict about it.

            • lambalicious@lemmy.sdf.org
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              8 months ago

              Could be, but still it reeks of overreaction. Without the need of seeing anything else, it’s almost impossible that Germany’s law is that strict that “linking to (discussion of) pirated material” would be off, since if that was the case Google would be making Germany rich with their fines, which doesn’t seem to be the case. It’s even worse when it comes down to saying “discussing or mentioning” internet piracy would be illegal - under the way copyright holders themselves understand it, this would mean mentioning the market of secondhand sales would be illegal in such jurisdictions.

              • Admiral Patrick@dubvee.org
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                8 months ago

                Yeah, until LW addresses it, all we can really do is guess. I’ve just jumped to the most logical conclusion, but that doesn’t mean it’s even close.

                For what it’s worth, as an instance admin myself: I don’t get paid to run it, I have other things to worry about, and most definitely don’t have time or energy to deal with copyright BS. That said, I can completely understand their position and reaction.

                Depending on how my day was going, I’d have also probably “shot first and asked questions later” with regard to removing the community and waiting until I had time to compose a post about it and be present to deal with the inevitable drama that would cause.

                Hopefully they make an announcement soon.

      • imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works
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        8 months ago

        You seem to be confusing Lemmy.world with Lemmy as a whole. Lemmy is free to be used for anything by anyone.

        Lemmy.world is the largest and most mainstream Lemmy server, so they need to be especially careful about legal issues. If lemmy.world gets taken down due to mirroring content hosted on lemmy.dbzer0.com, the whole network would partially collapse because of how many users and communities are hosted on lemmy.world.

        It’s not even close to worth the risk. This is how federation is supposed to work.

          • imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works
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            8 months ago

            I’m not from lemmy.world, I’m from sh.itjust.works. We have never banned you at all. And I understand your argument.

            But it’s not our place to decide what the lemmy.world admins do with their server. It also doesn’t affect you personally at all. It’s not like they defederated your server, it only affects their users who were subscribed to that community, and they can always just make an account on another server.

      • Potatos_are_not_friends@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        You know the meme where Bender goes, “I’ll do my own thing, with Blackjack and hookers!”

        Lemme provides that. Servers are managed by different groups and you can absolutely make your own, with blackjacks and hookers.