Even the expensive European brands have gone completely to shit. BMW and Mercedes have given in to it over the last decade. Audi has been a shitshow for years (ask an Audi mechanic if he’d buy an Audi, I dare you).
I am sure you’re going to go find a reason to call it a pos
Why do you assume that? I looked at a CT200h years ago and found it to be a good car, being a Lexus badged Prius. As far as gimiky, it wasn’t immune. The OEM sat nav was pretty outdated and the method for controlling it was clumsy in my opinion. The factory head unit was also a non-standard narrow shape meaning it wasn’t possible to replace it with a better aftermarket unit. These are fairly small complaints. It was a solid car when I looked at it, but not completely gimik-free either.
but it’s still leaps and bounds better than a Tesla in the design department.
This is subjective. Especially comparing a traditional hybrid vs an EV. Its using essentially 15 year old technology, which is solid, but also limited in its efficiency. Does that qualify it as a better design than a modern EV?
This is subjective. Especially comparing a traditional hybrid vs an EV. Its using essentially 15 year old technology, which is solid, but also limited in its efficiency. Does that qualify it as a better design than a modern EV?
It’s definitely subjective. Some people don’t mind having the speedometer off to the right on a touch screen display. Personally I do not. It’s poor design choice for my personal flavor for interacting with the car. The same with the shifter.
The way you interact with the car and satnav and all that is mostly just the standard way Lexus does things. Again it’s subjective but I find it intuitive and not nearly as gimmicky as a giant touch screen. If that’s your biggest complaint for gimmick then I think it’s a leap.
When I talk about quality I am not arguing about ICE vs Hybrid vs EV.
I have nothing to say about Tesla when it comes to EV technology. It could be great for all I know. It isn’t my concern.
My concern are the design gimmicks of the rest of the car. Tesla could have the greatest quality EV tech and I couldn’t give a fuck less because I think their door handles and giant touchscreens are fucking stupid.
It’s definitely subjective. Some people don’t mind having the speedometer off to the right on a touch screen display. Personally I do not. It’s poor design choice for my personal flavor for interacting with the car. The same with the shifter.
My prior car, a Toyota Prius, also had the center-placed speedometer. So that’s not a Tesla only thing. I thought it would bother me. It didn’t end up doing so.
The same with the shifter.
Every shifter prior to 2024 Model 3 has the shifter on a stalk. Thats been a staple of cars since the 1950s. I’m not a fan of buttons for shifting, nor touchscreen. Both require you to take your eyes off the windshield.
So far GM has the worst design for shifting IMO. Its a set of pull levers under the HVAC controls!
You have to tilt your head nearly looking at your lap they are so low to find them, further there is a small cut out that accommodates a single finger you have to find to put your finger in and pull the lever back to engage that function. So when pulling out of a parking spot on a bright sunny day where your eyes are used to looking outside, you now have to look at a wall of a back dashboard and find that little hole to stick your finger in, pull it, remove your finger to back out turning the wheel, then do that same search and eye adjustment all over again to find the “drive” lever. I had this on a rental car once. I avoid all GM rental cars now on the off chance they do this stupidity too.
That setup is so bad, it makes a touch screen gear change a better choice, and I would hate to have a touch screen function for that. Its at least at near eye level, so you don’t have to fumble in the coin tray feeling for it. Its also backlit so you don’t have to wait for your eyes to adjust to the darkness to make the change.
If that’s your biggest complaint for gimmick then I think it’s a leap.
This is the second time your taking a statement I’ve said and made it seem more aggressive on my part, and I don’t know why. The first was when I asked you what kind of car you had, and you automatically said I’d say it was bad, and now this one where I even already stated that these were very small complaints. I pointed them out because they were small on an otherwise good car. If feels like you think I’m attacking you, where I have not done so in any of our posts between us. Why are you doing that?
My concern are the design gimmicks of the rest of the car. Tesla could have the greatest quality EV tech and I couldn’t give a fuck less because I think their door handles and giant touchscreens are fucking stupid.
You’re welcome to your opinion of course. There are certainly design and implementation choices I don’t like on Tesla cars. There are lots of things missing on non-BEV cars today in my opinion too. However, I haven’t found a perfect car yet. So its a choice of measuring the pros and cons of a vehicle with respect to our own tastes and judging on total balance whether its one you like or not. We’ve both done this calculus and arrived at different answers, and there’s nothing wrong with either of our takes because they are right for our own personal experiences.
Half of this thread is people who would never have been getting an EV in general. Just complaining to complain and parroting the most popular clickbait points.
I’m not sure any manufacturer is producing that car today EV or ICE.
Even the expensive European brands have gone completely to shit. BMW and Mercedes have given in to it over the last decade. Audi has been a shitshow for years (ask an Audi mechanic if he’d buy an Audi, I dare you).
Enshitification cannot be stopped.
Car is a gimmick. Big ugly heavy gimmick.
Considering my current car isn’t a poorly designed gimmick I’m going to have to hardcore disagree with you dawg.
What car do you have?
Lexus CT.
I am sure you’re going to go find a reason to call it a pos but it’s still leaps and bounds better than a Tesla in the design department.
Why do you assume that? I looked at a CT200h years ago and found it to be a good car, being a Lexus badged Prius. As far as gimiky, it wasn’t immune. The OEM sat nav was pretty outdated and the method for controlling it was clumsy in my opinion. The factory head unit was also a non-standard narrow shape meaning it wasn’t possible to replace it with a better aftermarket unit. These are fairly small complaints. It was a solid car when I looked at it, but not completely gimik-free either.
This is subjective. Especially comparing a traditional hybrid vs an EV. Its using essentially 15 year old technology, which is solid, but also limited in its efficiency. Does that qualify it as a better design than a modern EV?
It’s definitely subjective. Some people don’t mind having the speedometer off to the right on a touch screen display. Personally I do not. It’s poor design choice for my personal flavor for interacting with the car. The same with the shifter.
The way you interact with the car and satnav and all that is mostly just the standard way Lexus does things. Again it’s subjective but I find it intuitive and not nearly as gimmicky as a giant touch screen. If that’s your biggest complaint for gimmick then I think it’s a leap.
When I talk about quality I am not arguing about ICE vs Hybrid vs EV.
I have nothing to say about Tesla when it comes to EV technology. It could be great for all I know. It isn’t my concern.
My concern are the design gimmicks of the rest of the car. Tesla could have the greatest quality EV tech and I couldn’t give a fuck less because I think their door handles and giant touchscreens are fucking stupid.
My prior car, a Toyota Prius, also had the center-placed speedometer. So that’s not a Tesla only thing. I thought it would bother me. It didn’t end up doing so.
Every shifter prior to 2024 Model 3 has the shifter on a stalk. Thats been a staple of cars since the 1950s. I’m not a fan of buttons for shifting, nor touchscreen. Both require you to take your eyes off the windshield.
So far GM has the worst design for shifting IMO. Its a set of pull levers under the HVAC controls!
You have to tilt your head nearly looking at your lap they are so low to find them, further there is a small cut out that accommodates a single finger you have to find to put your finger in and pull the lever back to engage that function. So when pulling out of a parking spot on a bright sunny day where your eyes are used to looking outside, you now have to look at a wall of a back dashboard and find that little hole to stick your finger in, pull it, remove your finger to back out turning the wheel, then do that same search and eye adjustment all over again to find the “drive” lever. I had this on a rental car once. I avoid all GM rental cars now on the off chance they do this stupidity too.
That setup is so bad, it makes a touch screen gear change a better choice, and I would hate to have a touch screen function for that. Its at least at near eye level, so you don’t have to fumble in the coin tray feeling for it. Its also backlit so you don’t have to wait for your eyes to adjust to the darkness to make the change.
This is the second time your taking a statement I’ve said and made it seem more aggressive on my part, and I don’t know why. The first was when I asked you what kind of car you had, and you automatically said I’d say it was bad, and now this one where I even already stated that these were very small complaints. I pointed them out because they were small on an otherwise good car. If feels like you think I’m attacking you, where I have not done so in any of our posts between us. Why are you doing that?
You’re welcome to your opinion of course. There are certainly design and implementation choices I don’t like on Tesla cars. There are lots of things missing on non-BEV cars today in my opinion too. However, I haven’t found a perfect car yet. So its a choice of measuring the pros and cons of a vehicle with respect to our own tastes and judging on total balance whether its one you like or not. We’ve both done this calculus and arrived at different answers, and there’s nothing wrong with either of our takes because they are right for our own personal experiences.
Half of this thread is people who would never have been getting an EV in general. Just complaining to complain and parroting the most popular clickbait points.