The French National Assembly on Thursday unanimously adopted a bill aimed at restricting the manufacture and sale of products containing per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances — also known as PFAS or “forever chemicals.” The MPs, backed by the government, voted to exclude kitchen utensils from the scope of the text.
Thanks to an intense lobbying push, manufacturers of frying pans and saucepans — including the SEB group, which owns Tefal — are exempt from this ban under the proposed law penned by French Green MPs.
Majority groups initially tried to delay the ban on kitchen utensils until 2030 — a timetable refused by the French Green MPs who instead suggested an exemption until 2026.
Sounds great, let’s ban it in every form except the one we literally eat…
Actually it’s in a lot of food wrappers.
And those aren’t as durable as cooking utensils. If you don’t scratch your pan with a metal fork and don’t use it for two decades, it’s apparently somewhat safe. Not according to the companies, I’m not shilling, Last Week Tonight had a point about it on their episode about PFA’s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W74aeuqsiU
I’d personally love to not consume any fucking PFAS, but I also understand that this French thing is still a massive step forwards for regulations on the matter.
Tldr it’s still a win
That stuff sticks to (aka reacts with) literally nothing. That’s the point of it. The whole innovation of nonstick cookware was the fact they got it to stick to something. It’s not even dangerous if you ingest it, it doesn’t react with anything so it just comes back out.
What IS dangerous is the by products and intermediate products, as well as the stuff that comes off if you overheat it. (And also, like you said, when they get old)
This whole movement against non-stick is alright, but so many people do it for the wrong reasons. If you have nonstick, just use it and don’t buy nonstick next time. Throwing away perfectly fine cookware like that is like boycotting charmin by flushing down all your remaining rolls in one go and going to the store to buy new toilet paper from another brand.
Eh… does it?
https://www.businessinsider.com/chart-how-long-hazardous-forever-chemicals-pfas-stay-in-blood-2023-3
I still use my non-sticks, but like you said, I’m gonna buy non-PFAS cookware the next time I need to. I’m in no panic about my pans. What people probably should pay more attention to is PFAS in clothing. This might be a tad sensationalist as The Guardian often is, but eh, with a grain of salt: https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2023/jul/02/fashion-chemicals-pfas-bpa-toxic
Yes, the final product comes back out. The final product is PTFE, not PFAS. PTFE is harmless unless degraded or overheated (which is why you shouldn’t do that with non-stick cookware).
To produce PTFE, PFAS are used (or are intermediaries in the process), which is why the production is dangerous, but the product isn’t.
#Some of the PFAS that have been studied — PFOA, PFOS, and PFHS — can take over seven years to reduce by half in your bloodstream. It’s no wonder they’re called “forever chemicals.”
There’s no PTFE in that list.
So?
We’re not talking excretion, we’re talking blood half-life.
Too complex a distinction for a corporate shill?
Hey, it’s me, your friendly neighbourhood corporate shill, telling you to not buy any more nonstick cookware because I love Tefal so much. More for me!
But seriously, I’m not disputing that the chemicals you listed are bad, just that the coating itself doesn’t affect you.
PFAS bad, but only there during production. PTFE fine, and that’s what’s on your pan. PTFE does not get into your blood. Any PTFE you consume comes back out, because it is not PFAS.
TL;DR: use pan until pan bad, then buy pan with no PTFE.
You mean that a pan has to age? Or is it a burn.
My point was that when the pan gets old and the non-stick parts starts going, you shouldn’t still keep it for 10 years afterwards.
It’s a pretty common thing I’ve seen, people not bothering to buy new pans when old ones get worn out.
So if one is trying to avoid exposure, keep your pans in good shape
Ah. Thanks for clarifying.
It read like we should age the pans before use like a fine wine. But this makes way more sense.
Careful what you wish for. PTFE is used in liners of a lot of life saving catheters. The stuff that goes I side your heart and brain and saves your life…
Its about finding alternatives. Right now there is an immense economic & lobby pressure to not pursue finding alliterative materials.
PTFE is super cheap to produce & is sold with high margins. Financially would be basically impossible to fund research for alternative material, produce it without economies of scale, compete in a saturated market, etc.
Cases like this is exactly why we need representatives of the people to act & pass laws.
Its like with plastic (one use?) products, the mantra was “nothing can be as good as plastic” and it took the market no time to produce better products without plastic. But there is a lot of push back, eg there is absolutely no need for paper straws to get soggy (we have the tech) yet you mostly see only the shitty kind.
Or the example of paper industry, they had the interest to ditch plastic and they did to an extend. Those little transparent windows in envelopes are super cheap cellulose, but a decade ago they were plastic.
I have PTFE and PVDF in my body and I am happy about that.
I’m guessing a DES (stent)?
Yes this and a hernia mesh. Guess there will come more.
You’re just slowly turning into a cyborg.
Meh. It’s not that dangerous if you use a non-stick pan of good quality. And toss it in the bin as soon as the non-stick surface starts to show signs of scraping…
If you want to avoid this problem altogether you can just buy cast iron or enameled pans. But enamel is a lot stickier (and heavier) than teflon
The problem is that non-stick has been marketed heavily to the point that the majority of cheap pans are non-stick, even though there’s many purposes they’re not suitable for. For example they shouldn’t be used for high heat cooking, but how many people don’t know that? And they’re extremely toxic if the surface is chipped. Using the wrong utensils on the can chip them. Plus, there’s a number of pans out there that make it look like they’re a different material, but actually it’s just the same thing rebranded. So even if people are using them wrong, it’s very understandable why someone who’s a casual cook wouldn’t realize that they’re endangering themselves by using the pans wrong.
Yeah believe me I know all about that. My dad is a materials scientist and has been rambling about us eating Teflon for a few decades now. Using metal utensils with the non stick pans is one of the few ways to truly get yelled at in my parents’ house
Yeah, I was also in no panic but
So now I have good stainless and cast iron for about the same price but it could potentially last the rest of my life: reducing toxic chemicals from manufacturing, reducing the amount of forever chemicals accumulating in my body, and saving me money. Even better, by paying attention to the quirks of effective use of these pans, I’ve become a better cook and find the cleanup usually no worse than non-stick
Adding carbon steel to this, because I love my pan, and my mother-in-law (who lives to cook) can use it without arthritis pain. She always used to complain about the cast iron hurting her joints when she lifted our other pans.
What I’m also curious about is the ceramic coated pans. I’ve seen them advertised (I think Green Pan, whatever). I would like a lighter alternative to Le Crouset that I could cook acidic foods in.
I’m somewhat curious as well, but that’s when I reach for stainless over cast iron. There’s a balance there: I think some people overreact when usually cooking acidic stuff is no problem. Of course I also don’t cook long simmering stuff like pasta sauce so I don’t need to pay much attention.
I do also use a crock pot, which is ceramic and has at least some overlap with long cooking acidic foods that may be tainted by stainless or cast iron
I only know what I’ve read online about ceramic:
My decision was based on wanting something more permanent so I didn’t have to buy it again, and it’s nice to be able to rediscover metal utensils
I presume it’s mostly used in the handles. I don’t think we cook on plastic.
That’s where you’re wrong, bucko
Its the non-stick in the non-stick pan.
I hate this keyboard. You have no idea how much.
Nonstick pans, though most of the harm is from manufacture, not end-use
Its used as the nonstick coating
PTFE, aka Teflon.