But of course we all know that the big manufacturers don’t do this not because they can’t but because they don’t want to. Planned obsolescence is still very much the name of the game, despite all the bullshit they spout about sustainability.

  • kadu@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    There are indeed good aspects to this product.

    But I won’t join the “Fairphone good” circle jerk and give them the free publicity, because just like Apple and Samsung, they removed the headphone jack from their phones soon before the launch of these headphones, in other words, artificially creating the problem and need to sell you their expensive solution.

    You don’t get to ride the “we are pro customer!” free publicity train while also wanting to be the next Apple.

    • BreakDecks@lemmy.ml
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      7 months ago

      I understand people’s desire for a headphone port, but I really don’t understand the hate for devices that don’t have one. It would be one thing if they vendor-locked Bluetooth headphones so you had to use theirs, but it really just seems like a common sense move in a world where Bluetooth reigns supreme.

      As long as a USB-C adapter still provides the same functionality, I really don’t see anyone’s choices being taken away. If it is one less physical port on the device that helps streamline the hardware, I’m all for it too.

      And if it is a dealbreaker, you don’t have to buy a fairphone.

      • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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        7 months ago

        The problem is that there are fewer and fewer options with a headphone jack. My current phone has one and I use it all the time.

        Bluetooth sucks for a variety of reasons, such as:

        • not private
        • needs to charge (I’ve had BT headphones die on road trips or whatever)
        • not great sound quality

        I also like using bluetooth headphones sometimes, but having an option is good, and I don’t want to bring a dongle around everywhere.

        • BreakDecks@lemmy.ml
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          7 months ago

          Most Bluetooth headphones are encrypted with a key shared only by the headphones and the host device. Not sure why you think they aren’t private. Maybe really cheap or really old headphones might not be so secure, but the vast majority of Bluetooth headphones in use today absolutely are.

          Charging and audio quality are legitimate concerns, but again, you still have a headphone port… It’s just part of the USB-C port on the bottom of your phone. A $5 adapter completely absolves you of having to use Bluetooth.

          I really don’t see how needing an adapter is a big enough deal to care about the way people here seem to.

          • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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            7 months ago

            They broadcast the ID and I think type of device. Yeah, the data sent between the devices is encrypted, but that’s not really an improvement over wired headphones since the signal is privacy by virtue of not being broadcast everywhere.

            A $5 adapter

            It’s not the price that’s the issue, but the convenience. I can’t change my phone while using the adapter, and I have to bring it along wherever I go. Why should I need an adapter for something that used to come standard?

            What do I gain from not having a headphone jack? A slightly thinner phone due to slightly more space for the battery? My current phone has a headphone jack, and it’s no bigger than any other phone, and it has a larger battery than most. Better water resistance? I’ve never lost a phone due to water.

            So I’ll flip it around, why do you not want a headphone jack? What about a micro-SD card?

            My next phone will probably not have a headphone jack, and I’m annoyed just thinking about it.

            • BreakDecks@lemmy.ml
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              7 months ago

              I can’t change my phone while using the adapter

              Why should I need an adapter for something that used to come standard?

              The same reason you needed a new charging cable every time the USB standard changes: because technology standards change over time.

              If anything, audio adapters have been a thing for decades longer than cell phones have existed. This is not a new development at all.

              What about a micro-SD card?

              My phone has an completely excessive 512GB of storage, and I can use USB drives (including micro SD adapters) if I really want to save something to external storage.

              • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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                7 months ago

                Headphone jacks are still ubiquitous, work well, and aren’t overly large. There’s also not really a significant downside vs other ports. USB-C beats previous ports because it’s better:

                • micro-USB - destroyed cables and ports
                • mini-USB - uncommon
                • micro-super speed - even less common
                • iPhone lightning cable - broke easily, unique to Apple

                Moving to USB-C gives you:

                • better port - I’m pretty sure it’ll outlast most of the above
                • faster speeds
                • more features
                • high speed charging

                Basically, the only downside is having to buy more cables (and the annoying difference between cable capabilities), and a little higher cost to include it in a product.

                With the headphone jack, there’s really no objectively superior alternative. USB-C requires a dongle or USB-C specific headphones, and there’s not really a change to audio quality. If you want to charge at the same time (like you showed), you need an awkward dongle with half that’ll go unused most of the time. Yeah, it works, but it’s a solution to an artificial problem. They could just include an audio jack instead…

                My phone has an completely excessive 512GB of storage

                Ok, and how much did that built-in storage cost you? Would you have preferred a smaller amount of storage if it meant lower cost, and have the option to expand with a micro-SD card? With Apple, you’d pay $100 to bump to 256GB and $200 more to bump to 512GB. So you’re paying $300 to go from 128GB to 512GB. I could buy a fast, 512GB microsd card for $55 (or slower drives for $35).

                And what happens if you switch devices? Let’s say you decide to go Android, now you need to figure out how to get your stuff from one phone to the other. With a micro-SD card, you just move the card. Or if someone wants to get a copy of photos you took, just copy to a micro-SD card and give it to them.

                If you don’t want to use it, you don’t need to, but micro-SD ports are small (often paired with the SIM slot) and inexpensive.

                Having those convenience ports doesn’t cost you anything and you can ignore them if you want. So I really don’t see a downside to manufacturers keeping them, and it just gives users flexibility. I actually never used the SD slot on my old phone, but I was glad it was there. I would’ve used it if my phone lasted longer than 3-ish years before running out of software updates.

                If someone comes up with a better alternative to SD cards or headphone jacks, sure, replace them. But current phones merely lost functionality. Maybe they could have a version w/o the port that has a bit more battery, that would be a good compromise for losing a port you may not want. But just eliminating it while it’s still popular is stupid.

        • Vaderhoff@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          Honestly most of these points don’t make a whole lot sense, yet these are the arguments I see every time wireless ear buds pop up in any conversation. Phones by nature are not private, and honestly, who is trying to intercept Bluetooth close to you anyways? Majority of what they would likely get is “oh another person listening to music or tiktok”. I haven’t charged my 3 year old $50 Bluetooth buds in weeks, and they are still sitting at great battery health. Proper research and care goes a long way, though the option to have replacement batteries is def a plus. And if you’re going on long road trips, just pack an adapter and wired headphones if you’re that conscious. What are you doing with your phone that you need top-tier audio quality on the go? Just seems like a very very niche market.

          • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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            7 months ago

            Majority of what they would likely get is “oh another person listening to music or tiktok”

            Bluetooth data is encrypted, that’s not what I’m worried about. I’m more concerned about tracking.

            Bluetooth transmits a unique ID, which can be picked up by any curious individual. That’s pretty much how “Find my Droid” and “Find my iPhone” work, and providing even more devices to track isn’t great. I can turn off the Bluetooth in my phone and use wired headphones to avoid it, and removing the jack makes that more annoying.

            top-tier audio quality on the go? Just seems like a very very niche market

            Why not? I often listen to music or whatever when exercising, riding transit, or doing yardwork. Having good sounding headphones is really nice.

            Audio jacks cost almost nothing, and I can buy them for <$1 each from Amazon, less if I buy in bulk. So it’s not a cost savings, and they’re not particularly big, so why do they need to remove it?

            Even if you don’t care about privacy or audio quality, it’s just really convenient to be able to use any cheap earbuds if you lose your nicer pair when on vacation or whatever. Why not have the option? Why force people to use an adapter?

            I also have Bluetooth headphones (bone conduction for listening to audiobooks on my bike), yet I still prefer the wired headphones around the house, on walks, and pretty much everywhere else.

            • Vaderhoff@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              I think the removal is less so the conspiracy, and more so just spacing on the board or even just pure neglect at this point, but I could be wrong. But I’m good with every other point you threw up there. The tracking bit does make sense too, just no one has ever mentioned it. Though I still don’t think anyone is hunting me personally lol. I understand having peace of mind is also good too, and honestly, should not be a luxury like it feels these days.

              • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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                7 months ago

                Yeah, I’m not being hunted either and probably never will be, but privacy is really important to me and just knowing that it’s technically possible without even all that much work just really bothers me. I’m already not a fan of the only options for a phone OS being from Google and Apple, so removing the headphone jack just further reminds me that I’m not in control of my phone.

                I would understand if it was totally obsolete, like the old FireWire port on computers or a barrel power jack now that USB-C is a thing, but imo an adapter isn’t a replacement since it requires having and bringing an extra thing along.

                And I don’t think every phone needs to have it, and it’s totally fine to have options with and without the jack. The cost difference between the two would be minimal, and in my case, I’d rather have a headphone jack than a third or fourth camera (I honestly rarely use my camera, but I use headphones a lot).

                • Vaderhoff@lemmy.world
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                  7 months ago

                  I def think the lack of devices with an aux port is an issue. Honestly the market is too samey right now. Everything that comes out just follows whatever design the last big phone. Evey phone just “has” to have an amazing camera, high resolution and high refresh rate screen, etc. I’m fine with aux ports, I just wish we had variety.

                  • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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                    7 months ago

                    Yup. I don’t need an amazing camera, NFC, under-glass fingerprint scanner, etc.

                    I just want a phone with:

                    • 5+ years of security updates
                    • privacy-friendly (GrapheneOS, mobile Linux, maybe Calyx, etc)
                    • basic phone features work well
                    • all day battery life
                    • fits well in my pocket - 6" seems like a good size
                    • headphone jack

                    But because the phone landscape sucks, my realistic options are: Google Pixel. Everything else has much too short of software updates, has a huge screen, or costs way too much. I’d personally be happy keeping my Motorola phone if it got security updates, but that ended so I’m looking for something different.

                    I just want to make calls, texts, browse the web, and run a few apps (work MFA, Lemmy, mapping app, etc). That’s it.

        • sarmale@lemmy.zip
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          7 months ago

          For me the slight lag is the worst, I can stand charging them and cant notice the lower audio quality but the lag is so annoying, For music they are good, bot not for things you interact with

      • stoly@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        I’m with you. The hate has always seemed a bit like a first world problem.

        • octopus_ink@lemmy.ml
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          7 months ago

          I used up all my hate when Apple did it. I still think Apple lied about their reasoning (waterproofing and space), which pisses me off more than the other complaints, many of which I also agree with. (some of those reasons were even more valid when considering the overall state of the tech at the time)

          However, at this point a big portion of the market has adjusted and accepted (to varying degrees), and that first change is so far in the past that I don’t know that I can muster up a lot of hate for mfrs who are taking away headphone jacks today when instead of upending the market they are following market trends.

          Having said that, I’d be willing to bet that a larger than typical percentage of Fairphone purchasers would really like to have a headphone jack.

          edit - purchasers not purchases

      • blssflbreeze@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        it’s partially because we are running out of options that have the headphone jack, and the only reason to remove them is to boost sales of more expensive bluetooth sets. Bluetooth really doesn’t reign supreme yet because wired headphones are still more convenient, cheaper to produce, and last longer than their bluetooth counterparts. the only reason it’s so common is because it keeps getting removed from phones so people don’t have a choice in the matter.

      • daltotron@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Mostly just because it’s kind of seen as a higher profile example of mobile phone manufacturers colluding and creating totally unnecessary changes in the market because they’re incapable of actual innovation. The reason people are mad, basically, is because there was no reason to remove the headphone jack. I haven’t seen a reasonable argument for it’s removal, really, or the removal of most of the other used-to-be-standard features on smartphones.

        • nyctre@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          Does that include fairphone’s explanation for the removal of the headphone jack? Cause to me it sounds reasonable. It could be bs, sure, but I don’t think it is.

    • d4f0@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      The fairphone 4 doesn’t have a jack and its from 2021.

      • JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nl
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        7 months ago

        Yes and they sold shitty generic bluetooth earbuds that they pulled from the market a year and a half later with 0 support when they were almost ready to launch their Bluetooth headphones.

      • kadu@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        So? Their over ear Bluetooth headphones came out on Q1 2023. Two years developing a new category for your company sounds about right.

        Plus, their phones are expected to be used for long, so if they wanted to push people towards Bluetooth they’d have to start early.

        Plus, this is still irrelevant - how does the fact they screwed customers over in 2021 somehow make it better?

        • woelkchen@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          So? Their over ear Bluetooth headphones came out on Q1 2023. Two years developing a new category for your company sounds about right.

          So they first removed the headphone jack but intentionally didn’t launch a companion device because the customers would just wait for them “to sell you their expensive solution”?

          the fact they screwed customers over in 2021

          Wait, 2021 customers were not informed about that and got their headphone jacks taken away after already paying? They could not make an informed decision and were screwed over?

    • Fiona@discuss.tchncs.de
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      7 months ago

      I hated that too at the time, but I have to admit, that in practice this has not really turned into an issue basically ever: My headphones and earbuds are bluetooth anyways and I did get a usb-c to headphone adapter that I store with my earphone’s backup audio cable for the very rare case that I need it (I can count on one hand the instances for when that happened). And in those very few cases I wasn’t about to charge my phone anyways, which is the one argument for why you might want both.

      So, I don’t know, maybe it really is time to move on. I will defnitely say that I’m not a big fan of analog cables, so maybe a more general move to USB-C for audio might be the right way to go in the first place?

      • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Yeah I feel the same way. I didn’t get in on Bluetooth until I got Bluetooth hearing aids, but it’s just really convenient.

        My last pair of computer headphones are analog and they’ll be my last analog headphones

    • iopq@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Okay, but my phone has a jack and absolutely dog water sound quality. Because it has a jack it does not support the USB DAC which I use on my desktop.

      Worst part is, the whole USB DAC is $12 including shipping and it has USB connector and 3.5mm, and an amp. They cheaped out on this part not only on the phone, but also on the motherboard. On my computer the amp is way too weak to drive my around ear headphones.

      So if it’s a crap one maybe they shouldn’t even include it, since I’ll have to use a USB DAC to get perfectly transparent sound. The only good one I own is on my budget Acer Aspire laptop.

      • PopOfAfrica@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        LG phones used to come with a DAC. I still use mine as an MP3 player even though it’s not my main phone.

        • Buddahriffic@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          All phones with a 3.5mm audio jack have a DAC. You can’t play digital audio without one somewhere along the chain and all audio going through a phone or PC is digital unless you’re picking up a radio signal or some other analog signal that’s being fed directly to the audio jack.

          You probably mean it comes with a good DAC, since they aren’t all created equal.

          A bit of a tangent, but I believe that’s why people considered Macs better for audio stuff, they probably used a better DAC than most motherboards come with or might have just added that pathway in general back when it wasn’t standard on most PC motherboards and your had to use a sound card if you wanted better audio than the PC speaker which was more of a synthesizer. They’d take a pitch and generate an analog wave at that frequency while a DAC uses a sample rate and series of amplitudes at that frequency to generate rich sound.

        • AlligatorBlizzard@sh.itjust.works
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          7 months ago

          My current phone is an LG G8 and I have no idea what I’m going to replace it with when it finally dies. I’m half considering seeing if one of the local repair shops can replace the battery on it because that’s what’s starting to go.

          Honestly, I blame LG’s marketing team on the failure of their phone department. Hardly anyone knew about the built in DAC, and they should have been pushing that hard to the audiophiles.