Finally! It’s just too bad my insurance score is still too low for me to get the required homeowner’s insurance because the car company shared my driving data with insurance data brokers, and they don’t like that I park in front of bars every Friday night, they don’t know it’s because I have a third job as a busboy. It’s ok though, cause at least I’m still free to tip my landlord, and employment rates are up!
But remember. You’re paying his mortgage and you can’t deduct that from your taxes but he can deduct his mortgage from his taxes (the same mortgage that you paid)
>implying americans actually want a credit score
I’m honestly unsure. What is the alternative? Instead of a pre-emptive risk assessment of whether or not you can pay something, more people just receive punishments when they end up not being able to? I don’t like being judged or told what I can or cannot pay back a month from now, but on a large scale doesn’t this mostly protect people from dangerous debts? For the opponents, what is the proposed alternative?
on a large scale doesn’t this mostly protect people from dangerous debts?
Not really. It just ends up with lenders offering far more predatory interest rates, which worsens the situation for the debtor. The system is set up in such a way that you can spiral pretty hard with a single misstep.
I’m honestly unsure. What is the alternative?
Given that there are plenty of developed countries where credit scores don’t exist (and plenty more where they do but only for businesses), I think alternatives are imaginable. I would know, I live in one such country.
If you want a mortgage here, the bank will:
- Ask you about your current loans and potential past defaults
- Ask you about your current and past income, marital status, employment status, etc.
- Use those variables to pretty straightforwardly determine your loan capacity
- I think do a background check in national databases for defaults/“bad payer” status
- Contractually obligate you to receive your salary on the same account from which they will automatically pull the mortgage. I don’t think this helps reduce actual defaults much, but it probably greatly reduces the financial and administrative overhead of late/missed payments. Also this ties you into the creditor bank which is good for business, IDK how standard that practice is abroad.
The US consumer economy is very highly dependent on short-term/credit debt, and that is absolutely crazy to me. Some Americans say they “need” a credit card to defer payment on some purchases, and as someone raised in culture where debit is king this sounds absolutely insane. Y’all have been propagandized, here it is perfectly normal to not have a single credit line open before shopping for a mortgage and if anything your banker will commend you for it.
For the opponents, what is the proposed alternative?
I’d imagine this is the crux of the problem. Banks need some way to determine if someone will pay back their loans, and what better way than to tabulate their history of doing just that? Should banks be willing to take risks in a system with stuff like the 7 year rule?
I’d like credit scores systems to be fully public and developed by the government. It would be far better than the three private systems Americans deal with now.
The vast majority of Americans (95%) say having a good credit score is important to them, according to the survey.
I have yet to meet a Democrat or Republican who thinks they shouldn’t exist.
I mean same applies to the Chinese,
but wanting to look good in an oppressive system, does not mean you actually like to be oppressed by said system.Is this stockholm syndrome?
Following rules because you’re afraid of the consequences is extremely different from falling in love with or even desiring the rules.
There’s a difference between wanting to have good credit so that you can benefit from a garbage system and wanting that system to exist in the first place.
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you can’t really do anything about it.
I mean denouncing the system would be a first step, yes. Like I said I never seen Democrats or Republicans claims this system shouldn’t exist.
I’m a leftist who dislikes capitalism, but I can admit that credit scores were a step up from the way loans were done before. The old way just made it so the banks themselves decided who they wanted to issue a loan to, and that led to a lot of racism and sexism when it came to giving the loans out.
Still, I do think we can come up with a better system than the current credit score system, and I think you have the right idea to point out it’s flaws to start the wheels turning on improving it.
Of course it is; that’s the system under which we’re living.
your conclusion doesn’t follow from your premise. the ability to live indoors is going to be important to people even if they think the system by which we decide who is allowed to live indoors is kinda shit.
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with the amount of information sharing between all the large corps, they are likely to be more similar than you think.
But does the corporate data collection factor into your FICO score? Unless there’s some new scary development I’m not aware of, the FICO score is only based on the following: length and number of accounts, revolving utilization, if payments are on time, and the loans you have made (based on the size and frequency of them).
FICO is just one of a multitude of scoring systems which impact people’s lives in the US today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_credit_scoring_systems_in_the_United_States
You and your friends’ social media activity, among numerous other things, can absolutely affect your ability to get a loan, a job, a rental contract, etc.
If that holds true, then it really is no better than China’s social credit system. Somebody needs to regulate this monster before it eats us all.
Don’t give them any ideas.
Another key difference is one is aimed at executives and businesses and the other is aimed at everyone
The sadder thing is that Chinese social credit hasn’t actually even been implemented, and doesn’t seem like it’s going to. There are only limited local experiments, most of which are allegedly largely irrelevant.
Whereas there are multiple credit score companies currently tracking literally everyone who has a bank account.
How do you think it came to be that most Americans believe that in China you can have your home seized for being impolite?
A deluge of articles that confirms the audience’s unexamined orientalism, and makes them feel superior.
I got rejected just last week for something pretty inexpensive that I can afford to pay off in installments. My credit score is good and I’ve never defaulted on any payments before. I live in the UK, not in China.
AFAIK the social credit system that westerners like to mock was only trialled and never implemented. I, on the other hand, have actually been screwed over by my own country’s credit score system.
In the US, I think you would be entitled by law to know the reason why you were rejected ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Credit_Opportunity_Act ).
Does the UK have something similar?
I have good credit but I cannot buy a house.
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Thats a seperate issue, that is central banks and over regulation of the housing market. This has devalued your wages and made housing too expensive. And the sad part is BOTH of the parties support these things (if you are an american).
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k
I’m no fan of credit scores but let’s not act like its the same thing as Chinese social credit
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Let’s just make up shit about China/Russia and cope with it
- average westoid
Do you think I made any of that up?
Yes you did.
course not credit scores actually exists and social credit does not since it was just a trial
Assuming you are correct it’s still pretty crazy that they even considered anything even close to that.
Meanwhile insurance scores in the US gather all sorts of opaque behavioral data via data brokers. And the IMF even thinks you’re browser history should influence your credit score.
Maybe, I don’t live there. But a social score is absolutely insane.
China is having some of the same wages/productivity split problems that the us has and there’s a vein of thought that says it’s fixable with social incentive programs.
This isn’t 1984 evil authoritarian tankie shit, its liberal reform shit.
And as another reply to you mentioned, a lot of the “social” factors are reported to the big 3 credit reporting agencies through denials based on giant weird datasets anyway, so the “normal” credit score is a “social” credit score in disguise.
Both systems are horrible
please explain what the horrible part is, be specific
The specific problem with both systems is that they are controlled by a central entity. Sounds harmless enough on a first glance. However, this also means that whoever owns/controls this system, can control a lot of people very effectively. This could be used for good but is instead mostly used to keep people in line.
This makes it easy for a single person/small group to control an entire nation, which I think is a bad thing.
Good thing that the system in China is in the hands of the working majority. If you look at how Chinese political system is structured it becomes clear that it’s not in fact in the hands of a small group of people.
I do not believe that is the case. Mainly because of their questionable choices. Things like their great Firewall, which also censors political topics that the government does not approve or the perseution of certain ethnic groups. I don’t belive a majority of the people would want to do things like that.
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Claiming that taking tough measures to arrest the spread of the pandemic instead of letting millions of people die the way west did was a bad decision is the height of psychopathy. You are one sick individual.
You’re putting a lot of words in my mouth my guy. You said the Chinese government is run by the majority workers. I’m giving an example of how the majority wanted something, and the minority said otherwise. Not only said otherwise, but imprisoned anyone that dissented. Like all government, the few control the many.
The “zero covid” policy in china was absolutely insane.
AND, guess what, I was able to argue my point without calling names. Lmao.
There is nothing questionable about those choices. For example, the firewall is the reason why China has its own domestic tech industry while the rest of the world is dominated by a handful of US companies. Meanwhile, censorship of capitalist views is good actually. And the idea that the government prosecutes certain ethnic groups has no actual basis in reality. This notion has been debunked to death but people in the west will keep repeating this because that’s what they want to believe.
You’re seriously defending the treatment of the Uyghurs?
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You seriously still peddling this bit pf propaganda?
Who has access to the back end data, and the ability within it to change any data they want?
Because a group of people with this power exists, whether or not you believe they will act upon it.
The power of the government being premised solely on who has access to the backend data is certainly a novel political theory.
That isn’t at all why the two systems were being criticized, and trying to frame it like that is extremely disingenuous.
Maybe if you actually read the links provided then you’d see that your criticism is vapid in the extreme.
No
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You sure could’ve avoided making a clown of yourself if you bothered reading the links provided
Contrary to common belief, the cities mainly target companies, not individuals.
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people would look at you as the imbecile that you are of course
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Let’s face it, you can’t even find China on a map. You’re never going to go to China, you don’t give a shit about people living in China. You’re just a racist who thinks he’s being awful clever. It’s sad and pathetic, and everybody can see through it.
We tried personally evaluating people for loans on their individual merits, and shocker, there was rampant racism and sexism. Having strict metrics, instead of relying on the whims of a dickwad loan agent, is a good thing.
The new system isn’t perfect, and yeah, it completely favors people who have parents who know how the system works. But at least it’s not explicitly racist or sexist (again, there are of course systemic issues that feed into it).
I get that it’s frustrating to, for example, need to have debt in order to qualify for more debt. But in other contexts this is pretty standard — it’s essentially “financial experience.”
But yeah. It sucks that you should pay expenses with a credit card rather than debit in the USA. Personally it doesn’t matter to me (I pay them off every month), but it sucks for merchants who get stuck with the credit card transaction fees.
You can live without a credit score, even get a mortgage. It’s not exactly easy, but it’s not that difficult. Once you have a mortgage, you have a good credit score.
WOOOW ✋😃🤚
