I really like Marion G. Harmon’s Wearing the Cape series for this. Hero teams are governmentally regulated, and state or federally mandated, and have to work with local authorities whenever possible, often acting as first responders specifically regarding super villain events. They’re required to plan and mitigate collateral damage. Heroing is literally their job and they have standard and on-call hours, as well as patrols and the like.
Socially heroes and villains are treated kind of like celebrities, and there are sort of unwritten rules about no killing, and no going after civilian identities or people’s families outside of costume as that’s grounds for both villains and heroes to look the other way regarding the aforementioned “No killing” rule.
With the knowledge that villains are hard to impossible to fully stop, emphasis exists on imprisonment and rehabilitation, and over the course of the series some villains and heroes end up changing sides.
There’s one hero in the series who is a federal agent with the ability to replicate clones of himself and is embedded in most hero teams, as well as being secret service, generalized security, and informant as all clones have the knowledge of the rest. Nobody he works with outside of the President of the U.S. even knows how many of him are out there.
On top of this, besides the typical hero teams, there are more “B grade” teams that are not specifically super heroes but act as emergency responders and construction crews for both hero events and fights as well as generalized incidents, and things like heroes without borders that act as global humanitarian aid on a volunteer basis, similar to Doctors Without Borders.
Vigilantes are frowned upon, and can end up liable for crimes as they’re not sanctioned to use their powers to fight.
It’s a very interesting series, and deals with a lot of “real world” consequences of super heroics, including long term injury and death, PTSD and other trauma, and the impact of things like super powered terrorism and extremist groups, as well as anti-super sentiment.
——
Besides that series, I’d also recommend the web serial “Worm” by Wildbow (John McCrae), but that one’s a doozy, both in terms of content (it only goes from bad to worse and things never really get better) and length (it’s absurdly long, maybe equivalent in length to 15-20 full length novels, broken up into fairly long chapters and sections).
Worm is exactly the kind of chaos that would exist with supers. Attempted mitigation and control, but those with selfish interests and villains often coming out on top, much like those in power and wealth in the real world. WtC has a lighter perspective to tell its story, but Worm is straight up “what if the most horrible person you can think of could also kill with a glance/touch/etc. With no consequence?” And worse. Here there be monsters, quite literally, and humanity is losing the battle.
It’s an absolutely incredible series and I’ve read the whole thing twice at this point, but it’s often very depressing, and the bad can be really bad.
If you want to read Worm there are web scrapers online that can convert it to an ebook format for easier reading, rather than needing to browse the parahumans site.
If you want to read Worm there are web scrapers online that can convert it to an ebook format for easier reading, rather than needing to browse the parahumans site.
It’s on library Genesis. No need to reinvent the wheel.
Thanks, had no idea. I initially read it so long ago that “shadow libraries” weren’t much of a thing (if they existed at all yet?) and actually wrote my own scraper in Python to download it.
IIRC Marvel has handwaved this through an actual government agency who’s job is to fix shit quick. Department of Damage Control IIRC, very steeped in realist humor, and I mean actual school of realism not cult of “wahmenz in super hero movies is unrealistic!”
Associating daily mundanity with the real isn’t very scientific. It’s just a politically motivated false association designed to push a conservative agenda.
No, calling it realism is pushing a conservative agenda. Because you’re mixing up consensus reality, which is a bourgeois tool of oppression, with the experiences of the working class. Thereby normalising the oppression we face from the realist bourgeoisie.
It’s like going around saying Star Wars is a piece of homophobic media just because Luke Skywalker is a farmer and you want to push a narrative that farmers are intrinsically homophobic. It’s not true.
Was that civil war? Because I thought that movie was terrible, Captain America’s position was so dumb as portrayed in the movie. Maybe it made more sense in the comics or something but civil war is what made me stop watching MCU.
Stark argued that they needed to be accountable to the public, and Captain America argued that they couldn’t be under “government control” (then what the hell is SHIELD lol). It seemed like an incredibly weak argument immediately following Age of Ultron, and very similar to proto-fascist “strongman” rhetoric.
I think the point was more that he didn’t want the government to use them as a hit squad or stop them from going where they’re needed. Shield was operating more a support organization than controlling them.
That was Captains pov, but Stark pointed out that it wasn’t really working. This is immediately after Ultron, remember? And if it was in the real world, I wouldn’t want those doofuses making unilateral decisions that affected the entire world without being accountable to anyone.
I mean, most decent superhero movies I see acknowledge inner city chaos to be bad. As soon as a horrible villain starts throwing fireballs, they’re trying to get civilians out, save people amidst chaos, etc.
There’s maybe another conversation to have on property damage; I think there’s not much story there due to the way insurance works. To us, these chaotic battles happen every summer, but in these worlds they’re rare freak occurrences - just like earthquakes.
I’m vaguely aware of that, but that’s also why I never really lined up for Zack Snyder movies on release. He has a uniquely ignorant take on those heroes.
The Avengers went into this. The United States government went after them after they saved NYC for the destruction caused while saving NYC, and then eventually arrested all of them. It pissed me off quite a bit, considering the alternative was the enslavement of humanity. Short-sighted, power hungry politicians…
Super Crooks does this really well too if you haven’t watched it. Its basically the boys in anime form (american anime style) and there are a few moments where colateral damage and even heroes racking up higher body counts than villains gets mentioned.
Nah, that’s exactly what makes them awesome. I’m not trying to watch the news, I want some cool entertaining stuff, not more of the same life I already live. “Ooooh look the same stuff as the world around you! How interesting!” I’d just not watch a movie if I want that.
Nah, what you’re calling realistic just ends up meaning the addition of economy & finances & politics to things I don’t really want it in. If I want to watch a political spy thriller I can do that, if I want to watch super heroes, I don’t always want it to account for all that. If a realistic movie includes super powers that’s awesome, stuff like The Boys or Watchmen; but I still want & enjoy the fun of a superhero movie having a set piece fight in the middle of New York, without having the movie go into the territory of insurance claims.
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I really like Marion G. Harmon’s Wearing the Cape series for this. Hero teams are governmentally regulated, and state or federally mandated, and have to work with local authorities whenever possible, often acting as first responders specifically regarding super villain events. They’re required to plan and mitigate collateral damage. Heroing is literally their job and they have standard and on-call hours, as well as patrols and the like.
Socially heroes and villains are treated kind of like celebrities, and there are sort of unwritten rules about no killing, and no going after civilian identities or people’s families outside of costume as that’s grounds for both villains and heroes to look the other way regarding the aforementioned “No killing” rule.
With the knowledge that villains are hard to impossible to fully stop, emphasis exists on imprisonment and rehabilitation, and over the course of the series some villains and heroes end up changing sides.
There’s one hero in the series who is a federal agent with the ability to replicate clones of himself and is embedded in most hero teams, as well as being secret service, generalized security, and informant as all clones have the knowledge of the rest. Nobody he works with outside of the President of the U.S. even knows how many of him are out there.
On top of this, besides the typical hero teams, there are more “B grade” teams that are not specifically super heroes but act as emergency responders and construction crews for both hero events and fights as well as generalized incidents, and things like heroes without borders that act as global humanitarian aid on a volunteer basis, similar to Doctors Without Borders.
Vigilantes are frowned upon, and can end up liable for crimes as they’re not sanctioned to use their powers to fight.
It’s a very interesting series, and deals with a lot of “real world” consequences of super heroics, including long term injury and death, PTSD and other trauma, and the impact of things like super powered terrorism and extremist groups, as well as anti-super sentiment.
——
Besides that series, I’d also recommend the web serial “Worm” by Wildbow (John McCrae), but that one’s a doozy, both in terms of content (it only goes from bad to worse and things never really get better) and length (it’s absurdly long, maybe equivalent in length to 15-20 full length novels, broken up into fairly long chapters and sections).
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Worm is exactly the kind of chaos that would exist with supers. Attempted mitigation and control, but those with selfish interests and villains often coming out on top, much like those in power and wealth in the real world. WtC has a lighter perspective to tell its story, but Worm is straight up “what if the most horrible person you can think of could also kill with a glance/touch/etc. With no consequence?” And worse. Here there be monsters, quite literally, and humanity is losing the battle.
It’s an absolutely incredible series and I’ve read the whole thing twice at this point, but it’s often very depressing, and the bad can be really bad.
If you want to read Worm there are web scrapers online that can convert it to an ebook format for easier reading, rather than needing to browse the parahumans site.
It’s on library Genesis. No need to reinvent the wheel.
Thanks, had no idea. I initially read it so long ago that “shadow libraries” weren’t much of a thing (if they existed at all yet?) and actually wrote my own scraper in Python to download it.
IIRC Marvel has handwaved this through an actual government agency who’s job is to fix shit quick. Department of Damage Control IIRC, very steeped in realist humor, and I mean actual school of realism not cult of “wahmenz in super hero movies is unrealistic!”
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It was a private company (owned partially by Wilson Fisk and Tony Stark) in the comics.
Realism is an inherently fascistic political ideology.
No, realism is looking at a fantastical setting from the frame of the mundane.
IE what a morning commute is like in a city running on magic
Associating daily mundanity with the real isn’t very scientific. It’s just a politically motivated false association designed to push a conservative agenda.
A working class centric narrative in a fantasy setting is pushing a conservative agenda?
No, calling it realism is pushing a conservative agenda. Because you’re mixing up consensus reality, which is a bourgeois tool of oppression, with the experiences of the working class. Thereby normalising the oppression we face from the realist bourgeoisie.
It’s like going around saying Star Wars is a piece of homophobic media just because Luke Skywalker is a farmer and you want to push a narrative that farmers are intrinsically homophobic. It’s not true.
…city folks using a fantasy version of public transit is bourgeoisie oppression?
No, consensus reality is bourgeois oppression. It’s continually served as a justification for genocides all over the world for hundreds of years
Invincible handles consequences pretty well.
One example: At one point Atom Eve uses her powers to turn an empty lot into a playground. But it turns out
spoiler
the lot was empty because the ground was unstable. So the playground collapses and injures several people.
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To their defense, the MCU kind of made a whole movie addressing exactly that, back when it was still really good
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Was that civil war? Because I thought that movie was terrible, Captain America’s position was so dumb as portrayed in the movie. Maybe it made more sense in the comics or something but civil war is what made me stop watching MCU.
I think it was. The fumbled it a bit, but at least they kinda went in that direction.
Wasn’t his position basically they didn’t want to be under government control? Didn’t seem so stupid to me but it’s been a while since I watched it.
Stark argued that they needed to be accountable to the public, and Captain America argued that they couldn’t be under “government control” (then what the hell is SHIELD lol). It seemed like an incredibly weak argument immediately following Age of Ultron, and very similar to proto-fascist “strongman” rhetoric.
I think the point was more that he didn’t want the government to use them as a hit squad or stop them from going where they’re needed. Shield was operating more a support organization than controlling them.
That was Captains pov, but Stark pointed out that it wasn’t really working. This is immediately after Ultron, remember? And if it was in the real world, I wouldn’t want those doofuses making unilateral decisions that affected the entire world without being accountable to anyone.
Chronicle probably doesn’t exactly fit your description, but is an attempt at a more grounded look at superpeople.
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You are fortunate; it’s not life changing or anything, but I wish I could watch it for the first time again.
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“Sorry I let Dr Evil detonate a nuke in the city centre. Wouldn’t want to cause a mess”
I mean, most decent superhero movies I see acknowledge inner city chaos to be bad. As soon as a horrible villain starts throwing fireballs, they’re trying to get civilians out, save people amidst chaos, etc.
There’s maybe another conversation to have on property damage; I think there’s not much story there due to the way insurance works. To us, these chaotic battles happen every summer, but in these worlds they’re rare freak occurrences - just like earthquakes.
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I’m vaguely aware of that, but that’s also why I never really lined up for Zack Snyder movies on release. He has a uniquely ignorant take on those heroes.
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But Snyder is an artiste! 🙄😒
The Avengers went into this. The United States government went after them after they saved NYC for the destruction caused while saving NYC, and then eventually arrested all of them. It pissed me off quite a bit, considering the alternative was the enslavement of humanity. Short-sighted, power hungry politicians…
Super Crooks does this really well too if you haven’t watched it. Its basically the boys in anime form (american anime style) and there are a few moments where colateral damage and even heroes racking up higher body counts than villains gets mentioned.
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Invincible and One Punch Man to some extent.
The infinity saga at some point has this as a topic I believe, too.
Hancock did pretty well adressing this
Nah, that’s exactly what makes them awesome. I’m not trying to watch the news, I want some cool entertaining stuff, not more of the same life I already live. “Ooooh look the same stuff as the world around you! How interesting!” I’d just not watch a movie if I want that.
Have you seen Invincible?
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Nah, what you’re calling realistic just ends up meaning the addition of economy & finances & politics to things I don’t really want it in. If I want to watch a political spy thriller I can do that, if I want to watch super heroes, I don’t always want it to account for all that. If a realistic movie includes super powers that’s awesome, stuff like The Boys or Watchmen; but I still want & enjoy the fun of a superhero movie having a set piece fight in the middle of New York, without having the movie go into the territory of insurance claims.