• Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    I posted this in another thread.

    I am really confused about this ruling.

    “But under our system of separated powers, the President may not be prosecuted for exercising his core constitutional powers, and he is entitled to at least presumptive immunity from prosecution for his official acts.”

    He’s not being prosecuted for exercising core constitutional powers or official acts. He’s being prosecuted for election fraud, inciting an insurrectionist mob and mishandling classified documents. None of those are core constitutional powers and they clearly can’t be official acts.

    Edit: I just love this part-

    Without immunity, Trump’s lawyer said, sitting presidents would face “blackmail and extortion” by political rivals due to the threat of future prosecution.

    Trump just faces blackmail and extortion from his political allies. Like Vladimir Putin.

    • FireTower@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      They sent it back down to the lower courts because they need to determine if he was acting officially. If he was acting outside of an official constitutional capacity he is criminally responsible. If he was doing his official duties with in the constitution he’s alright.

      It’ll probably end up with him hit with some charges and avoiding others.

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        Why does this need to be determined? He wasn’t. He just wasn’t. Nothing he is being charged with is constitutional, which is the point.

        • dhork@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          Some of the evidence that Jack Smith has put together involve some form of Trump’s official capacity. for instance, the Times notes that one of the points of the prosecution was that Trump tried to get Jeffrey Clark installed as acting AG in the days before Jan 6, presumably because he would go along with the coup. One of the findings of the Court is that appointments like that are within the President’s direct duties, and can’t be used as evidence against him, even if it can be proven that the appointment was made to directly piss on the Constitution Trump swore to protect.

          The Times also notes that Trump’s pressure campaign on Pence is similarly protected now.

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            The Times also notes that Trump’s pressure campaign on Pence is similarly protected now.

            How can that be constitutional?

            • dhork@lemmy.world
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              4 months ago

              Because presiding over the counting of the votes is one of the very few duties the Constitution allocates to the VP, so is covered under this new doctrine. He has the absolute right to conduct that how he sees fit, without regard to whether he is upholding his oath to the Constitution or not, and any conversations he had with the President are part of that duty, and similarly protected. If it turns out he is not upholding that oath, the only remedy is impeachment. (And finding 67 Senators to agree to convict.)

              Absolute power, just as the Founders intended.

              • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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                4 months ago

                Which, I guess, includes blackmailing the VP if necessary. To protect the president from blackmail.

        • FireTower@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          That’s just due process of law. The lower court can’t just wax seal issues of constitutionality with out looking at them. Doing so would be a fantastic grounds for appeal.

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            They already looked at them before he appealed to SCOTUS. And SCOTUS didn’t rule that they were wrong as far as I can tell.

        • catloaf@lemm.ee
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          4 months ago

          In your opinion. It needs to be determined by a court.

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            It already was determined by a court. Now they’re sending it back to that court to re-determine it.

      • Fades@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        because they need to determine if he was acting officially.

        this was already ruled on, reelection campaign is NOT an official capacity thing PERIOD. This move is nothing but another delay to ensure this shit falls on a date post-election

    • Zaktor@sopuli.xyz
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      4 months ago

      Constitutionally defined roles have absolute immunity (e.g., pardons). Other “official acts” are presumed to have immunity, but what acts are official is not well defined and as written can be very expansive. Since the Court gets to decide each one on a case by case basis, it will presumably apply more expansively to fascist allies and more narrowly to opponents. All Trump needs to do is present a flimsy excuse for how he was “protecting the election” or “making a political speech as president”. The liberal judges are correctly ringing alarm bells. “Official acts” isn’t a guardrail.

    • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
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      4 months ago

      As for a President’s unofficial acts, there is no immunity. Although Presidential immunity is required for official actions to ensure that the President’s decisionmaking is not distorted by the threat of future litigation stemming from those actions, that concern does not support immunity for unofficial conduct. Clinton, 520 U. S., at 694, and n. 19. The separation of powers does not bar a prosecution predicated on the President’s unofficial acts.

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        Right, and why do the questions “can a president officially commit election fraud” and “can a president officially incite a violent mob” and “can a president officially mishandle classified documents?” need to be determined? The answers have already been determined. They are all no.