Well, this just got darker.
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I think the common incest fantasy in the west isn’t too far removed from this too. Like all the actors are above age minimums but they pretend to be step kids or babysitters like these roles aren’t commonly associated with children and older teens. It’s clearly a form of deflection IMO.
Could also be that those are the only porns with even a half assed attempt at a plot instead of just opening with a ground and pound
even a half assed attempt at a plot
“I watch it for the plot, I wonder if they’ll ever get her unstuck”
“I just hope she will be able to afford her rent next month”
It probably stuck from the time when porn was becoming a bit more normal to watch, so it still had some nominal plot initially. Still gender roles with women being at home busy with washing machines and all such, or babysitting.
As the other comment implies, that’s just the easiest plot to shove porn into. I don’t think that many people are watching it for the plot, it just happens to be there. Like, people aren’t fantasizing about becoming a plumber to fuck women instead of being paid, for example. It’s just a lazy plot because they need to give some reason for the scene.
I think there’s something to be said for how commonly these fantasies and plots feature specifically young or youthful stereotypes. I think there’s no denying that people are into that sort of thing.
For sure some people are into it. I know from my experience I don’t care for that plot. I still watch them because that’s 90% of porn now it seems, but I don’t pretend like it’s a teenager and a parent involved.
I don’t mean just the “stepsister” stuff but overall the fascination with schoolgirls, babysitters and all that stuff.
As far as I can tell, humanity has been attracted to young adulthood since at least the beginning of recorded history. I won’t know why we’re still pretending this is some strange or weird thing.
Personally I think the rise in incest porn has to do with the rise in isolationism. Lots of people, young men especially, are going out less and less and having more of their social interactions online. As a consequence of this, for a number of these men, the vast majority of the real life female interactions they get are from women in their own homes. And biology has a way of adapting, so I think a lot these men are getting confusing feelings about people in their own homes due largely just to lack of outside exposure to women.
to cultures like Japan and Russia that don’t strongly condemn such things
As someone from Russia - what?
Unless you mean being attracted to post-puberty, but pre-legal girls. That, ahem, makes sense biologically.
Girls of that age are sometimes kinda cruel to boys, though, so my personal teenage years trauma prevents me from dreaming of them. But if not for it, I think I would.
Toddlers are a completely different issue.
There is this thing that I feel is most prevalent in the USA, to call any attraction to a girl under the age of 18 pedophilia. Because that’s the age to star in porn. The term should truly be used for attraction to children. I think it’s an extension of the “pedo panic” where every man is assumed for some reason to be a child rapist now.
As such almost every young man could at some point be caught as a “pedophile”- 17 year olds sneak into clubs all the time, for example. 20 year old hooked up with one? Now he is considered a pedophile even if the actual age of consent is lower.
Meanwhile the porn industry glorifies “barely 18” girls as something highly desirable. It’s a little messed up to say the least.
Actual pedos who are into kids should be put in mental institutions. But I would strongly suspect that 15% stated just includes honest young men and creepy old men, none of which are truly pedophiles. That number is way too high.
As such almost every young man could at some point
Something is wrong with your stats. “Almost every” would be above 97%. Or if by “could” you mean it happening in a perfectly normal situation - yes.
OK, I don’t really like talking about that age and that subject. Just batch-commenting everything.
Id say that 97% of all 18 year olds has had attraction to 17 year olds is not a weird number, unless asexuality is more common than I thought
Attraction yeah, I understood it as the act requiring consent from that text.
Attraction - it’d be virtually everyone I guess in one way or another. Asexuality is not the same as complete lack of romantic interest or even inability to enjoy physical parts.
The text are talking of branding attraction of <18 year olds as pedophilia, and didn’t talk about doing anything more than experiencing the attraction EDIT more than giving examples of where they may accidently hook up with a 17 year old who snuck into a 18+ bar and then getting the pedophilia treatment by society
Ah. OK. Not a native speaker, thought that “hook up” means sex being involved, and getting said treatment from the judicial branch.
From the society - eh, some of us are so used to “the society” being in general their enemy, that we don’t even think that’s a problem.
Ah, and also a 16yo walking-kissing-whatever with a 19yo is more or less normal here.
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It’s racism, due to his political alignment he can’t go after black people but Russians are fair game.
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Does this though? Or does it reduce the demand for real CP?
insert surprised pikachu face here
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So it’s less about outlets and more about progression. The concern is while plenty have an outlet they can use, we can’t know how many also choose to escalate because of these outlets.
That said, I do agree with you. However, I will always be more for understanding the disorder when no act has occurred and finding treatment.
we can’t know how many also choose to escalate because of these outlets.
But we do know that in general, porn doesn’t elicit that kind of escalation into real life. If this particular category of porn did cause that, it’d literally be a total outlier.
Same with other media, too. Rape porn lovers aren’t statistically more likely to rape irl, violent video game lovers aren’t more likely to be violent irl, etc., compared to the general population.
So I think it’s pretty fair to hypothesize that, if anything, it would reduce the incidence of real-world offense. Just look at the massive negative correlation between the proliferation of porn (thanks to the Internet), and the overall incidence of rape.
Also, I’m familiar with one bit of evidence out of Japan that apparently showed that child molesters consume less porn than the average citizen, which I was definitely surprised to learn, but once you think about it in the context of the stuff I mentioned above, it actually makes perfect sense.
In all likelihood, fictional ‘simulations’ like LLMs will directly reduce the incidence of CSA, if anything. If that’s the case, I can’t oppose such things in good conscience–it’d be pretty narcissistic to put my personal disgust over even a single kid not getting bad touched.
I don’t have resources in front of me and shitty internet, so if I’m wrong here call it out and continue the conversation. Just a heads up. Gonna off the top of the dome on this one. Also, I do agree that methods which can reduce actual exposure or action should always be seriously considered, regardless of social outcry.
What you are largely referring to are taboos that also fall under other categories. Someone with a rape kink or fetish are in reality into a gaining of, or loss of, control. People who fall into these categories may also fall into some psychosexual disorder category, I’m not sure. What I do know is paraphilia is a recognized class of mental and sexual disorder or extreme deviancy. Does this mean we fully understand it? Nope! It’s just where we are right now in understanding, though my concern is always whether that understanding has been tainted by the knee jerk reactions surrounding the disorders themselves.
Anyway, I’m digressing a bit.
My larger point is that Paraphilia is understood currently as being outside of typical, or even atypical, sexual deviancy. We literally perceive and understand it as a legitimate mental disorder. Moreover, people who suffer from pedophilia and other recognized sexual disorders do struggle with their feelings and desire to act, even if the majority never do. Some even manage to lead healthy lifestyles around children or objects of their desire. Which brings up the concept of risk.
This is because as humans we can disconnect the real from fantasy. The issue with mental disorders though, and the reason they are disorders, is due to the severity of what is present. Which brings me up to another point: I don’t disagree on a fundamental level. I just worry that when it comes to a basic human need that people will find a way to excuse because they’ve been repeatedly introduced to stimulation that could exacerbate something they may already struggle to not take even the smallest of actions on.
This is a rocky subject that should be explored. Just done so carefully. That said, and I want to be clear, I do not blame any person for a desire, only action. Whatever sexual deviancy may exist, the most important things are safety and harm, and being able to provide appropriate care to those who are victims of their own mind.
yea i don’t have a problem with people with issues having non-harmful outlets for their urges, even though i might consider those outlets distasteful.
An outlet they need is fuckin therapy, not sex robots, tf.
Idk maybe im fucking crazy for that but if I got an urge to murder specific types of people and my “outlet” is roleplaying it or using a videogame to do it. I should probably seek some fuckin help. Not keep doing it. It doesn’t matter that it’s not hurting anyone. It’s unhealthy, doesn’t actually help them, and could escalate into them doing even worse things.
Keep in mind, 1st person shooters or violent games deadass dont count. Intent matters. I can say “yea I love driving over people in GTA, its funny af” and thats fine, but if I confess that I enjoy targeting certain types of people in GTA; that I like attaching personalities or life stories to them, and then talk about how I like to find different ways to kill them slowly because x, y, and z. That I don’t do it as a joke but because I get a genuine kick out of it; That’s a cause of concern, cus I know some people that did shit like that and turned out to actually have mental issues and thoughts of harming real people.
Like I get this is an issue some people are born with, but at a point, shit like that becomes a problem. Especially because it’s porn. To me, Porn in general is just a slippery ass slope. No I don’t wanna start fuckin crucifying ever non-offending pedo I see, i ain’t that kinda person. But for the love of god, can we normalize them getting REAL help instead of these “alternatives”. I just feel like the more you involve yourself with a fantasy bot, the more you’re gonna forget that this isn’t how real people work and the more the line between fantasy and IRL can get blurred.
I mean idk man- im slow, maybe I got it all wrong I truly don’t fuckin know some times. But this is just how I feel, and its fucked up to me that shit like child abuse roleplay just goes unchecked like that or that the people that do this kinda stuff should go unchecked.
An outlet they need is fuckin therapy
Not again…
…what’s the Ai model trained on?
yikes
A sex chatbot? Ask the developers. I would just scrape AO3.
Do you think there’s a public database of statutory rape chatlogs?
Not at all surprising but also it is an AI
A bit off topic… But from my understanding, the US currently doesn’t have a single federal agency that is responsible for AI regulation… However, there is an agency for child abuse protection: the National Center on Child Abuse and Neglect within Department of HHS
If AI girlfriends generating CSAM is how we get AI regulation in the US, I’d be equally surprised and appalled
To be honest it is more likely to get porn banned in the U.S. and we’ll watch rapes/sexual assaults/abductions/murders of the people involved go up.
Ain’t that what are the tools there for. I mean I don’t like cp and I don’t want to engage in way with people who like it. But I use those llms to describe fantasies that I wouldn’t even talk about with other humans.
As long as they don’t do it on real humans nobody is hurt.
The problem with AI generated CP is that if they’re legal, it opens a new line of defense for actual CP. You would need to prove the content is not AI to convince real abusers. This is why it can’t be made legal, it needs to be prosecuted like real CP to be sure to convict actual abusers.
This is an incredibly itchy and complicated theme. So I will try not go go really further into it.
But prosecute what is essentially a work of fiction seems bad.
This it not even a topic new to the AI. CP has been wildly represented in both written and graphical media. And the consensus in most free countries is not to prosecute those as they are a work of fiction.
I cannot think why an AI written CP fiction is different from human written CP fiction.
I suppose “AI big bad” justify it for some. But for me there should be a logical explanation behind if we would began to prosecute works of fiction why some will be prosecuted and why other will not. Specially when the one that’s being prosecuted is just regurgitating the human written stories about CP that are not being prosecuted nowadays.
I essentially think that a work of fiction should never be prosecuted to begin with, no matter the topic. And I also think that an AI writing about CP is no worse than an actual human doing the same thing.
I’m not claiming it’s legally simple but the difference is that this new “fiction” is very hard, if not impossible to distinguish from reality. Nowadays AI can form a regular human hand.
As long as they don’t do it on real humans nobody is hurt.
Living out the fantasy of having sex with children (or other harmful sexual practices and fantasies) wit AI or alike can strengthen the wish to actual do it in RL. It can weaken the strength to abstain. If you constantly have fantasies where for example “the child AI wanted it too” then it can desensitize you and making it harder and harder to push that thought aside when in a tempting situation. Instead of replacing the real thing with a fantasy you are preparing for the real thing. Some pedophiles already interpret children’s behavior as sexual that isn’t at all, but the AI might be told to act in that way and strengthen these beliefs.
This is still something that is and has to be studied more to fully understand it. Of course this is difficult because of the stigma. There might be differences between people who only are attracted to children and ones that are attracted to adults and children and there is just not enough data yet, but even the communities in which pedophiles who do not act on their attraction discuss coping strategies this is heavily discussed and controversial.
If you are interested in the subject a bit more, this is a start: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8419289/
Yeah that link is a no for me boss
As a man who was descending to a dark place when I was a teen, I can say this with confidence:
This kind of content, like CP or r*pe-y stuff, even if clearly not real and only a fantasy, feeds these desires, and makes them grow. In time, if you continue to foster it, they will bleed into real life, and then it becomes a real problem. That’s why this kind of stuff is scary.
Thankfully, I was able to spot this pattern before it became a problem, that is a dangerous slippery slope
Wrong. People who allow these desires to fester, or as you suggest, actively seek out fulfillment for them, is not good for anyone. It’s not good for the pedophiles, because it will increase the need for fulfilling their illegal desires, and it won’t help kids, obviously because it emboldens pedophiles.
Have you ever experienced something you like, and said to yourself: “definitely not doing more next time.”
Maybe the next step to actually life these fantasies are so close they still become a problem because the hand isnt satisfying enough to use?
The problem with that argument is, that you can translate that to games, movies, books and basically everything. What if a person isn’t satisfied by killing people in pc games? What if they go into real life?
That argument is only valid for people who can’t differentiate between reality and fiction. And usually those people need medical help.
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It’s a subset of Rule 34.
Theres people arguing here that AI gened CP May not be that bad at all cus its fictional.
I wanna blow my actual fucking head off, genuinely. This ain’t even the realm of lolicon anymore. Just straight up, realistic cheese pizza.
If that’s the case then sharing of all that AI Taylor swift porn should be fine too cus its fictional. It may be of a real and public figure, but it’s not REALLY her nudes!! Idk man- eughhhhhhh, all this rubs me the wrong way, no pun intended
Imagine just looking at an online AI gallery and seeing literal AI CP, just out there, public, free to use. It gives me the impression that people only care about child abuse or CP once it involves a real child, not that its general existence is an absolute endangerment to real children if they happen to get caught in the crossfire; that allowing people to fester that content as a “Coping mechanism” instead of getting help may just normalize shit like this or desensitize people to that kinda content. Like imagine stumbling upon that shit and seeing porn AI gened porn of someone who looks exactly like you, adult or child. Even worse if that person who made it knows you. Again- not real art, AI. Idk man- again it just all make me feel sick and queasy…
I mean, a lot of women get raped as a child, sadly
So its pretty realistic for an AI gf to talk about her past trama of child sexual abuse. I don’t think we should be upset about this…
We need to talk about rape culture to end rape culture
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Maybe enough forum boards were scraped where women were discussing this happening that it became a significant data point?
Wait is that what this article is about, and not the people programming them to do shit like this??
What we really need is a conversation about organized religion since those organizations by far molest the most children.
Definitely.
Paywall. That site frankly does not even look legit and looking at the plethora of other AI sites I don’t know who would use this one. It’s not even displaying correctly and has like 0 information on anything. If I were to stumble upon that site I’d think it is shady as hell.
You are almost definitely getting downvoted because it sounds like you’re saying 404media is not legit. I realize that you’re not, but I’ll admit I interpreted it incorrectly at first.
Is 404 an AI site?
No but having misinterpreted your message once myself and then seeing the replies, I was just letting you know.
I think when people read “this site” in the comments, they assume it refers to the link itself. So while the rest of your comment makes it clear, you try to connect it to the (incorrect) assumption. Like 404media isn’t a very pretty site so I can see why someone might insult the aesthetics?
I don’t know, I wasn’t picking a fight or anything
The site looks fine to me, I’m not sure where your criticism is coming from.
Oh, I thought you were talking about the linked news article website. My mistake, I wasn’t about to check out the site that allegedly lets you make CP
I specifically called it an AI site. I really don’t know how people can confuse that.
You mentioned other AI sites, you didn’t call it an AI site. It’s kind of hilarious how many people told you why your comment wasn’t clear, and yet you insist that everyone else is the problem. Lol
Yeah? Other more actually legit ones, contrary to the one that this whole topic is about. You got to be willfully obtuse to get this wrong.
The manga girl?
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Literally not paywalled.
And they did this for free posts because there’s lots of sites that scrap and re"publish" articles.
Accountwalled then
I know this isn’t necessarily helpful, but 404media has an account wall, not a paywall. You authenticate by email without a password.
They aren’t talking about the 404media site.
Ah, pardon my misunderstanding. I thought the two paragraphs weren’t related.
I was in regards to the paywall, hence the separation.
There are better ways to assess the legitimacy of a media outlet than critiquing its web design. The Wikipedia page might be a good start.
I don’t like the loginwall, but it doesn’t require payment.
They aren’t talking about the news site. They are talking about the AI site.
You might want to work on your reading comprehension.
I also think the issue was with your comment. It could’ve been written a bit more clearly
I don’t know how my comment is unclear. Unless 404 is an AI site somehow, which I wouldn’t even know about.
Paywall. That site frankly does not even look legit and looking at the plethora of other AI sites I don’t know who would use this one. It’s not even displaying correctly and has like 0 information on anything. If I were to stumble upon that site I’d think it is shady as hell.
The “Paywall” followed by “That site” makes most people think (me included) that you’re talking about the news outlet, 404media, not the AI site mentioned. Writing something like this:
Paywall. The AI site they mention does not even look legit (…)
Wouldn’t leave such a wide margin for misinterpretation
No. “Paywall” followed by a period, also known as “full stop”, followed by a line break / new paragraph (which you conveniently removed), which all indicate a separation, followed by comparing the AI site to “other AI sites”. You have to be willfully obtuse to assume that when I talk about AI sites I’m referring to the news site there.
I think you’re having a Principal Skinner meme moment here…
Could it be me who wrote a comment that was slightly unclear?
…
No, it’s couple dozen or so other commenters who are wrong.
followed by a line break / new paragraph (which you conveniently removed)
I removed nothing. Maybe your client works with single line breaks. The browser ignores a single line break (enter) and only works with one extra empty line.
this will | this will render render as a | single line | a separate paragraph
404media is one of the best independent journalistic sites available. They started one year ago, so they aren’t especially well know, but they are a four person org that came from places like Vice.com and wanted to get out of the corporate bullshit. You should check out their non-paywalled articles.
fucking disgusting
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He’s revealing he’s either a sock puppet or a bot. Notice the weird disconnected and aggressive comments in a lot of these post follow the same idea. They just try to drum up conflict. Ignore them.
Edit: They deleted the comment when called out. Totally not guilty looking at all. The comment basically complained how the feminist agenda is taking over the world, written in a rather aggressive and confrontational tone. (As if trying to provoke conflict/engagement)
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Yes, no one could actually disagree with western man hating feminism. It’s all provocateurs haha.
And you can identify secondary accounts, or their co-shills by the use of similar language. Probably picked up from their script. Pay attention to words like “provocateur” or “reactionary”. You know, the ones no one uses in real life.
Actually I’m not an incel. I buy my sex. And how much of a sheltered softy do you have to be to believe women won’t date anti-feminists. Isn’t Donald Trump on his 5th wife?
There’s a bit of a difference between “Pretend girlfriends” and “Child abuse material”
Ackshualllly, it’s ephebophilia because these are young women above the age of…
/s
Just kidding, it’s CP
This is a weird one, because while fantasy is fantasy, and doesn’t necessarily indicate an intention to act on anything, these people were dumb enough to share these specific fantasies with some random AI porn site. That’s got to be an indicator of poor impulse control, right?
That alone should probably warrant immediate FBI background checks, or whatever relevant agencies have jurisdiction for these types of criminal investigations in each user’s locality.
Of course, I am saying it’s without actually having read any of the chats. So it’s possible my opinion would change from “this should be investigated”, to summary executions and burn the bodies for good measure… but no way I’m reading those fucking chats.
Just to be clear, are you saying that people should be investigated by the police for fictional stories that they read?
*ask to be written
I mean, if those stories were made by their prompts and about having sex with children then maybe 🤷♂️
I know we need to draw a line about what police can do with that sort of info so it’s not abused, but these people are still sick fucks.
Now that devices are starting to have built in features with AI automatically combing through all information on them, the idea of this sort of stuff being logged in the first place is concerning.
For instance, should someone prompting an AI to describe them beating up and torturing their boss be flagged for “potentially violent tendencies”? Who decides the “limit” where “privacy” no longer applies and stuff should be flagged, logged and sent off to authorities?
As I see it, the real issue is people being hurt, not text or fictive materials, however sickening they might be.
If the resources invested in spying on people and making databases were instead directed towards funding robust and publicly available psychiatric care I expect that’d be more efficient.
Physical crimes need to be addressed physically.
Psychological crimes need to be addressed psychologically.
And what shall be the threshold for criminalizing simply being a sick fuck?
I know we need to draw a line about what police can do with that sort of info so it’s not abused
A bit off topic but there is never a line. Once the government has your info, any of your info, it WILL be abused.
No, I am saying that sharing fantasies about underage children with a shady and poorly designed AI porn site, shows a serious lack of judgement and impulse control.
For that reason, yeah, they probably deserve having a quick review of their life to make sure that’s the only poor choice they’ve made in regards to that particular fantasy.
And they weren’t just reading, they were prompting the LLM model to generate these specific fantasies. They didn’t just come across a fucked up website and read a few forum posts.
If we investigated everyone with poor impulse control, we’d be investigating 80% of the world.
80% of the world shares their pedophile fantasies with shoddy AI LLM porn sites…?
bro we got literal pedophiles roaming the streets… catholic church, other “churches”, hollywood and youtube “influencers” all have known pedophiles WHO NOT BEING PROSECUTED FOR THE CRIMES THEY ALREADY COMMITTED
But you want state resources wasted what is essentially a thought crime or because “they might be pedophiles”?
🤡
Idiots can’t even properly ID the threat… no wonder country is going down the drain.
I heard even a US president is one… and still walks free.
Yes, clinton and trump both flew on Esptain plane… nothing was done.
Ruling class and their regime whores seem to get away with whatever but we got normies wanting FEDS to investigate chat logs of incels to “save the kids, just in case”
“no sex crimes should be investigated until the Catholic Church and Hollywood have been purged of pedophiles”
Well, that’s certainly an opinion.
do you have evidence of a sex crime?
if so, please report to your local prosecutor and police.
I’m just saying, police investigation of fiction creators and readers for the content of their fiction is way over the line of a lot of social and political norms.
(Also, I think you’ll find that police abuse children a lot more than pervy fiction fans do; so really, who should be investigating whom? Investigation into crime is supposed to start with evidence that a crime actually occurred — not with your personal disgust towards someone’s reading matter.)
You’re really going to great lengths to ignore what I’ve been saying, and instead responding to whatever strawman you find most convenient.
Now you’ve moved onto, “why should police investigate pedophiles, when they are the real pedophiles. In fact, the pedophile fantasy users of the site should be investigating the police”.
I mean, do you even hear yourself?
I hate torture-porn movies like the Saw series, but a lot of people are fans of them. Should I worry that those people are likely to commit kidnapping, torture, and murder? Should I advocate that the makers or watchers of those movies be investigated for kidnapping, torture, and murder — without any evidence that a crime was committed?
We don’t send the cops after people for liking murder stories, theft stories, industrial sabotage stories, or treason stories. We shouldn’t send the cops after people for liking stories of Harry Potter getting fucked by Severus Snape either.
I think you should be more careful to distinguish fantasy from reality. Most fiction readers and writers have no problem doing so.
Strawman, strawman, strawman.
Even when I reiterate that we’re not talking about passive consumption of media, but active participation in something else entirely, you can’t help but ignore that, and continue lobbing out fallacy after fallacy.
Maybe you should reread my original comments, and see why your comments have been so pointless, bordering on disingenuous.
So you’re into sending the police after the writers, directors, and producers of the Saw movies, but not the audiences?
I dunno man, that’s still too fascist for my tastes, but you can keep fantasizing about it. I promise I won’t try to send the police after you for your perverted fantasies of state power.
You don’t understand what you are talking about. Legally or otherwise.
Is that an indicator of poor impulse control? Really? Finding some shady back of the internet ai site to put some weird fantasy prompts into to get themselves off? Seems pretty calculated to me. They can’t put it somewhere legitimate where content is moderated and policed. Seems like pretty sound logic to me.
Dont get me wrong, these people are sick. If thats what they are into then theres something wrong, but instead of targeting real kids like so many people actually do, you know, like hollywood, celebrities, musicians, the catholic church etc they are entering prompts and reading stories. Sounds like impulse controlled to me.
