Millions of people in Cuba were left without electricity for two days after the nation’s energy grid went down when one of the island’s major power plants failed.
This is fucking ridiculous and not in any way just “one country won’t trade with you”.
Sorry, “one country won’t do any kind of business with you”.
I’m an opponent of the embargo for the simple reason that it’s fucking pointless. But the tendency of apologists to point to it as some core cause of Cuba’s misfortunes is just the usual perpetual search for a Great Satan to blame their problems on.
Yes, any kind of business. Including using their banking system. Do you not understand how disastrous this was and remains to be to Cuba’s ability to trade with the world at large or are you being willfully obtuse? Are you aware of how the US attempts (often successfully) to enforce the sanction on other countries? Again, if you seriously think it’s as simple as you put it you need to educate yourself. Here’s a start:
The Helms-Burton Act has been the target of criticism from Canadian and European governments in particular, who object to what they say is the extraterritorial pretensions of a piece of legislation aimed at punishing non-U.S. corporations and non-U.S. investors who have economic interests in Cuba.
The United States has threatened to stop financial aid to other countries if they trade non-food items with Cuba. The U.S.'s attempts to do so have been vocally condemned by the United Nations General Assembly as an extraterritorial measure that contravenes “the sovereign equality of States, non-intervention in their internal affairs and freedom of trade and navigation as paramount to the conduct of international affairs”.[133] Academic Nigel White writes, “While the U.S. measures against Cuba do not amount to a blockade in a technical or formal sense, their cumulative effect is to put an economic stranglehold on the island, which not only prevents the United States intercourse but also effectively blocks commerce with other states, their citizens and companies.”
There’s a reason every human rights group and their mother has criticized the embargo and it’s not because it’s just “one country won’t do any kind of business with you”.
The Helms-Burton Act. That’s really what we’re citing. Jesus fucking Christ. Do you know anything about the execution of the act, or did you just skim wiki for whatever looked good?
The results of the act being some international mockery and a couple of failed domestic lawsuits enabled by the act, which has been intermittently suspended as a diplomatic tool anyway.
and the blockade in general.
Fuck’s sake. You do realize what an actual blockade would look like for Cuba, right?
And they’re… the state of Cuba for the past 60 years.
Oh, here I thought it was grotesque economic mismanagement combined with utter dependence on Soviet subsidies to keep their sluggish economic system going. Subsidies, naturally, which stopped existing in the 90s, though things weren’t great before that either.
Perhaps you should read up on the Cuban government’s management of cattle on the island, once the second-largest industry in Cuba.
Fuck’s sake. You do realize what an actual blockade would look like for Cuba, right?
Yes, things could be worse. They’re still bad.
I’m not saying Cuba is competently running their economy, but an incompetently run economy doesn’t lead you to the modern state of Cuba. Why are you so intent on ignoring how the US prevents their citizens, and discourages those of other countries, from doing trade with Cuba? Plenty of countries trade with Cuba, including the US itself, but that’s all despite US influence. The idea that the US is just not doing business with Cuba is patently false.
In the same way that describing an unauthorized border crossing as an invasion because it “could be worse” but is still “bad”. Words have meanings.
I’m not saying Cuba is competently running their economy, but an incompetently run economy doesn’t lead you to the modern state of Cuba.
Oh. It doesn’t? I can name plenty of modern states doing worse than Cuba by their own efforts, without any US opposition. Do you know how easy it is to ruin an economy with total control over the government and nearly no private industry?
You wanna explain to me how one of the foremost countries for cattle in the Americas turned into a net importer of dairy products? Or how emergency measures passed for a hurricane in the 1960s which hobbled the Cuban cattle industry weren’t lifted until the 20 fucking 20s?
Why are you so intent on ignoring how the US prevents their citizens, and discourages those of other countries, from doing trade with Cuba?
‘Discourages’ being an apparently very weak stick considering Cuba’s current trade relations.
Plenty of countries trade with Cuba, including the US itself, but that’s all despite US influence.
Okay, so the argument, then, is that without the US’s influence, Cuba’s economy would be… where?
What industry is currently being hobbled to such a degree that it is crippling the nation by American influence?
What industry in Cuba is reasonably functioning?
What industry in Cuba is not being exploited to a significant degree because it can’t find buyers or sellers?
Sorry, “one country won’t do any kind of business with you”.
I’m an opponent of the embargo for the simple reason that it’s fucking pointless. But the tendency of apologists to point to it as some core cause of Cuba’s misfortunes is just the usual perpetual search for a Great Satan to blame their problems on.
Yes, any kind of business. Including using their banking system. Do you not understand how disastrous this was and remains to be to Cuba’s ability to trade with the world at large or are you being willfully obtuse? Are you aware of how the US attempts (often successfully) to enforce the sanction on other countries? Again, if you seriously think it’s as simple as you put it you need to educate yourself. Here’s a start:
There’s a reason every human rights group and their mother has criticized the embargo and it’s not because it’s just “one country won’t do any kind of business with you”.
The Helms-Burton Act. That’s really what we’re citing. Jesus fucking Christ. Do you know anything about the execution of the act, or did you just skim wiki for whatever looked good?
I mean I know about the results of the act, and the blockade in general. And they’re… the state of Cuba for the past 60 years.
The results of the act being some international mockery and a couple of failed domestic lawsuits enabled by the act, which has been intermittently suspended as a diplomatic tool anyway.
Fuck’s sake. You do realize what an actual blockade would look like for Cuba, right?
Oh, here I thought it was grotesque economic mismanagement combined with utter dependence on Soviet subsidies to keep their sluggish economic system going. Subsidies, naturally, which stopped existing in the 90s, though things weren’t great before that either.
Perhaps you should read up on the Cuban government’s management of cattle on the island, once the second-largest industry in Cuba.
Yes, things could be worse. They’re still bad.
I’m not saying Cuba is competently running their economy, but an incompetently run economy doesn’t lead you to the modern state of Cuba. Why are you so intent on ignoring how the US prevents their citizens, and discourages those of other countries, from doing trade with Cuba? Plenty of countries trade with Cuba, including the US itself, but that’s all despite US influence. The idea that the US is just not doing business with Cuba is patently false.
In the same way that describing an unauthorized border crossing as an invasion because it “could be worse” but is still “bad”. Words have meanings.
Oh. It doesn’t? I can name plenty of modern states doing worse than Cuba by their own efforts, without any US opposition. Do you know how easy it is to ruin an economy with total control over the government and nearly no private industry?
You wanna explain to me how one of the foremost countries for cattle in the Americas turned into a net importer of dairy products? Or how emergency measures passed for a hurricane in the 1960s which hobbled the Cuban cattle industry weren’t lifted until the 20 fucking 20s?
‘Discourages’ being an apparently very weak stick considering Cuba’s current trade relations.
Okay, so the argument, then, is that without the US’s influence, Cuba’s economy would be… where?
What industry is currently being hobbled to such a degree that it is crippling the nation by American influence?
What industry in Cuba is reasonably functioning?
What industry in Cuba is not being exploited to a significant degree because it can’t find buyers or sellers?