For some women in China, “Barbie” is more than just a movie — it’s also a litmus test for their partner’s views on feminism and patriarchy.
The movie has prompted intense social media discussion online, media outlets Sixth Tone and the China Project reported this week, prompting women to discuss their own dating experiences.
One user on the Chinese social media platform Xiaohongshu — a photo-sharing site similar to Instagram that’s mostly used by Gen Z women — even shared a guide on Monday for how women can test their boyfriends based on their reaction to the film.
According to the guide, if a man shows hatred for “Barbie” and slams female directors after they leave the theatre, then this man is “stingy” and a “toxic chauvinist,” according to Insider’s translation of the post. Conversely, if a man understands even half of the movie’s themes, “then he is likely a normal guy with normal values and stable emotions,” the user wrote.
Women in the US are doing that too.
I guess it works, to a point. If your man throws a Shapiro-esque fit over this movie he probably isn’t great to be around the rest of the time.
His critique of it is basically that it’s too “woke” but he really has nothing to say about the essential elements of any movie (plot, tone, character development, etc). He’s either unable or unwilling to separate politics from his review. It’s like he doesn’t know a movie can be well made even if you disagree with its themes.
I mean, I think it’s fine to critique a movie on themes as well. It’s a key aspect that makes up a film, like effects, writing, casting, or acting. I don’t think critiquing it as “woke” is invalid - it tells his audience a key facet of what they want to know about a movie. If a movie was coming out and someone reviewed it saying the themes were pro-fascist, I’d also want to know that and not attend based off of theme.
I just like that a movie which, in no uncertain terms, advocated for strong, independent men is too “woke” for Ben Shapiro. But I guess if you determine your worth as a man by how much control you have over women, that tracks.
Fascism is an actual defined term. Woke isn’t, it just means whatever the user wants it to mean, which is usually something like not wanting some minority group to exist.
The fact that it’s mis-defined or used as a pejorative does not invalidate its definition nor mean it can’t be used as a descriptor of a film. It’s literally an adjective.
True but dictionaries (at least for English) are descriptivist, so they can only describe how a word is used. The definitions, especially the second one, are so broad due to how much the word is misused.
But your right that I probably shouldn’t have said it has no definition.
“aware of and actively attentive to important societal facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice)”
Seems like a seller definition to me. I think it’s nice a dictionaries often provide samples for how the word should be used, but they always have the actual definition of it above that section.
I think “woke” actually does have a definition, put forth by DeSantis’s lawyers, IIRC. I don’t want to go find it right now, but it was something along the lines of “aware of and acknowledging the existence of systematic racism in the United States.”
But more broadly, these days it just means “progressive” without defining any specific arena, so personally, I think woke is a valid way to describe a movie. In fact, if a movie doesn’t have at least some “woke” themes, I’m not too interested in seeing it these days.
“Woke” comes from AAVE meaning to be aware of racial prejudice. As in, “you woke up from a dream”. It has a definition, it’s just that most white people won’t take the time to learn it.
The non-AAVE version doesn’t really have a different meaning it’s just not black-centric: Every action or speech done (deliberately/emphatically) cognisant of systemic injustice is woke. At least that’s how you see it used in wider left circles, and while the right might not understand it they of course see that it’s evil because systemic injustice is what they’re all about, be it when it comes to economic or social or intergalactic issues. They cannot accept the concept because it would require them to look at the consequences of their actions; exposure to it triggers their phobia.
Sure sure, that’s why fascism is a buzzword as big as woke
“Woke” means whatever anyone wants it to mean at any time.
Or is the theme of the movie about awareness of systemic racism in the US justice system? Haven’t seen it myself
I seen a video of another person dismantling his arguments and plot and character development is something he touches on.
Shapiro-esque is such an apt description.
The amount of concern a woman should have about their partner is directly related to the amount of Shapiro that is displayed when complaining about Barbie. I had a few parts I didn’t like, but I still enjoyed the movie as a whole. I thought the car chase scenes were so unnecessary and terrible product placement.
What’s funny is Shapiro, himself, feels Shapiro-esque as if even he were not the genuine article but instead a trick of the light.
Both my wife and i wanted to go equally. I wanted to thirst on Ken and I did…but on the serious note, its a good movie for both genders to see for seperate but equal reasons. Barbie gotta stand up and step out, be herself. and Ken has to learn what it means to be Ken without Barbie. This movie would of helped me not be such an incel in my formative years.
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What do you mean? I can’t think of anything more stable than a grown man burning children’s dolls on the internet after watching a movie based on a toy designed for 6-12 year old girls.
I don’t think about him at all.
Wait, people weren’t joking about that?
Wait, really? XP
a Shapiro-esque fit
🤣🤣🤣
I’m using that line
What do I do if my woman does that though?
Watch Oppenheimer, I guess?
Lol she actually wants to go watch the movie about child trafficking. Personally I want to drive 3 hours to watch Oppenheimer on 70mm because I didn’t know it was even a thing before this movie. Though all imax was created decently equal 😂
I just wanted to know where Ken lived.
He’s literally Beach Ken. Why doesn’t he just live on the beach?
Either that or ::: spoiler spoiler move back into the Mojo Dojo Casa House since Barbie cleaned it up for him before immediately leaving to be a human. :::
It can also work both ways, by seeing how she sees the corporate feminism thrown around by power-hungry corpos only for the profit. Luckily, my gf and I were sharing the same “yeah, it’s still divisive and murican corpo trash” mentality about the movie, while both of us saying that it was “almost there”
How about a Shoe-esque fit? Lol. I kinda agree with her that if they were trying to make the patriarchy look bad, they failed hard. The Barbie’s seemed to be having more fun in Ken Land. One of them even says as much.
Also there’s no way that Mattel would be upset that the Ken Bro-House was outselling Barbi Dream house. They’re making money, they’d have leaned into it, not tried to shut it down.
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You missed the point where they all lost agency and just became hollow husks of beings.
Also there’s no way that Mattel would be upset that the Ken Bro-House was outselling Barbi Dream house. They’re making money, they’d have leaned into it, not tried to shut it down.
Regarding this, I think the point the movie was trying to make was that Mattel could choose to eliminate the Barbie line of toys and use those resources to create a product for boys that would sell better, but they choose not to. Even though the board (both in the movie and in reality) is dominated by men and they are motivated by profit, they still want to make little girls happy. Of course, they want to make their profit along the way, but that’s commentary on capitalism
It wasn’t meant to be super biased towards feminism. In my opinion it tries to show a very well balanced take and just show genderism in general, and uses it as a gateway for some men to understand what it could be like from the other side. The end loses some of it’s nuance with going for a mostly status quo. But the rest of the movie is a great exploration of gender issues in general.
Barbie is an ad for a toy. It should not be engaged with as if it’s sincere any more than you would an ad for sugary cereal.
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Alternatively, if your SO doesn’t think you can be together because you don’t like a movie, they probably are the wrong person to be dating.
Bet they’re the same type who only dates people according to what astrological sign they are 🤣
Are you saying moral values and astrology are equal when it comes to choosing a partner? What is worthy value for you to choose a partner on? Tits?
It must be fun going through life without critically thinking about anything.
I have to admit, Barbie becoming a Chinese feminist icon was not on my 2023 bingo card. Anyone taking bets on when we’re gonna get a kpop version of this classic?
Barbie starting the revolution in China? Hopefully other countries as well. Good timeline.
Little Pink Cookbook!
Little Pink Cookbook!
Little Pink Cookbook?
You’ve got to do the cooking by the book ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
YEAH!!!
I was supposed to read this with a lil jon voice, right?
I think you meant “YEAH!!!”
I think if anyone gets mad at a Barbie movie or some random article on the internet that has nothing to do with them, that’s a good sign they’re emotionally unstable
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Really funny movie I’m glad with the direction that they went with it
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It’s very obvious here that no one is saying “if you don’t like a Barbie movie then you’re sexist.” The point is if you don’t agree with equality, whether in a movie or irl, then that’s the problem. But I feel like you probably already know this.
But yes, if people from certain religions and political parties would just stop with the racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, and xenophobia, maybe people wouldn’t feel the need to express
cultural valuesthe oppression they’re experiencing. Maybe consumers wouldn’t identify so much with the message of films like this. Yet somehow it’s always positive media like this that gets pushback, and meanwhile, laws keep getting passed in bumfuck states that are stripping human rights from people one by one. But sure, Barbie is the “exhausting” issue here.In other words, maybe there wouldn’t be media “pushing” for equality if we already had it.
And idk, I find Marvel/superhero bullshit to be exhausting and immature and just bad, so I don’t watch any of it, I block everything about it on lemmy and reddit, and I don’t comment on it. Then it’s not exhausting anymore.
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You should add a TL;DR to that which says “I don’t understand feminism and I’m making it everyone else’s problem.”
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Some people do.
Just like some people genuinelly believe the Earth is Flat and some people will have no problem drinking their own piss on a dare.
And then beyond those weirdos there’s an entire subculture of weirdos out there whose wierdness is to pay massive attention to and rage all about what weirdos do and, worse, they’re divided into factions and they’ll feed-on and feed-out weirdo rage between factions, so it doesn’t take much to trigger them into a positive feedback cycle of weirdo raging about weirdos.
The secret here is to remember that although they are often loud and lacking self-restraint on the Internet, all those weirdos (in all factions as well as factionless) still add up to a minority of people.
Define “mad”. I’ve watched it (arrr) myself and The Barbie movie is very political, despite them completely hiding it in the trailers and the promotional material.
Fervent political media tends to rile people up, especially when it’s very one-sided. I presume you haven’t seen it and think people are upset over a light hearted comedy.
It’s only political if you think human rights are political. For normal people who care about other people, it’s a light hearted comedy
The fact that I don’t want to go to the movies to watch propaganda doesn’t mean I’m against that propaganda. I go there to be entertained.
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You didn’t reply to their comment, you just added your own idiotic take. The movie isn’t propaganda unless you think a story about women and men having equal rights and equal opportunity is propaganda.
Is The Matrix propaganda? Is Terminator propaganda? Is Star Trek propaganda? All entertaining movies, all have heavy social commentary.
I haven’t seen the Barbie movie. I have no idea what it’s like. My comment was about “propaganda” movies in general
You’ll get nothing from communists in this discussion friend. People refuse to allow our media to be escapism anymore and demand even already addressed issues drilled into ‘entertainment’. We traded pop culture references for this, and somehow I want the references back
The Barbie movie is still escapism, media in general is still escapism. Media has always contained messages or lessons or political meaning, it’s not a new thing, nobody’s disallowing anything. If you don’t like today’s media, maybe it’s because you don’t like the messages they contain anymore. Sometimes you gotta look inward before blaming things on “society”.
It’s my opinion that thematic messages presented now are overt, with little nuance, and hold the same level of failure to look inward biases you claim. There is no discussion to be had when you hold a meeting with strawmen.
Great writers and media of the past were lauded for holding something that is presented as a moral evil up to caliber in logic and presentation. Taking a threat seriously so to speak. Look at an instance like Metal Gear, where despite the intent and presentation saying warmongering is bad, the writers still had the wherewithal to gauge a reasonable position you’d face fighting that ideology. You aren’t meant to agree with Zero or the Patriots or BB. But you can see and understand their logic to lead these actions.
What is this but taking a child’s doll and using it to spew word vomit level rhetoric that focuses on buzzwords and failed symbolism than actually addressing anything core to the point. If you want to make some preaching movie do it. But when you market your film as a lighthearted romp of self discovery involving an inanimate object, don’t be shocked when people push back.
Ahhhhhhh, so you do have a point to make. It took this entire thread for you to share it with us, and it was after it was heavily implied that you’re too much of a social conservative to enjoy art, which I still believe is the case. Did you get all of your talking points from The Critical Drinker? Also, your comparison of Barbie to MGS3 is apples to oranges. Highlighting complicated characters such as Zero and the Patriots doesn’t negate any of the heavy-handedness Kojima is also known for, and it certainly isn’t a compelling argument that the Barbie movie is without nuance or merit.
EvErYoNe WhO dIsAgReEs WiTh Me Is A cOmMuNiSt. You’re not even aware at how much of a self-report you’re doing.
It’s not one-sided, though. It argues that both matriarchy and patriarchy are not inclusive ways of operating a society. The movie did not shy away from showing Ken’s dissatisfaction living under a matriarchy, just like it did not shy away from showing Gloria and Sasha’s dissatisfaction with living under a patriarchy
I liked that it at least gave a few nods to the idea that living in a patriarchy isn’t necessarily great for all men either. Not all men have power, and even the ones that do aren’t necessarily happier for it and find themselves competing with other men and restricting their own self-expression. That’s a nuance that’s lost in a lot of pop feminist messaging.
Absolutely! The dolls of both genders that were discontinued or discarded were the first ones to bring down the patriarchy in Barbie land, including Allan and Sugar’s Daddy/Magic Ring Ken
Fucking Good. I’ve really got to watch it.
I love it for being an egalitarian movie. More of that please.
That really is the whole point, too. The entire conflict is based on the fact that Barbieland is a construct of the imaginary world created by girls playing with their dolls, in which Ken has only ever been marketed or existed as an accessory to Barbie. His entire existence, in both the real world of marketing and consumerism, and in the imaginary world of Barbie, is predicated solely on giving Barbie arm candy. I’m not entirely convinced that this point was entirely deliberate, but it really does highlight that, in creating a product to give girls a role model that says they can do and be whatever they want, that those girls internalized their understanding of the male-dominated world around them, and flipped that on its head. Their imaginary world is a very literal mirror to our own, and as a result, it is still dominated by the same inherently sexist attitudes, only kinder and gentler because they are created through the lens of childhood innocence. Kids are only able to create with tools and media they understand, and the polarized nature of the world around them, and our intense need to make everything a binary, means that a “fair world” never looks like one where everyone is treated the same. It’s a world where they’re in charge.
I’m not even going to get into the overtly sexist assumption that only girls play with dolls, and with Barbie in particular. Toys are toys, and I never understood the need to tell a kid that something is off limits because it’s pink or is “a doll”. The people who most strongly hold these beliefs tend to be the ones that grew up when GI Joe was a full size doll just like Barbie, with his own clothes and uniforms and such. Well before the idea of an “action figure” came around. These folks played with dolls that were, for all intents and purposes, functionally identical to any girls’ doll of the day, and yet are so quick to slap a Barbie or a Bratz doll out of the hands of their grandsons.
Anyhow, long story short, it’s a great movie that explores some very heavy subject matter, and almost but not quite gets its own premise. Most of the people who are irrationally angry with the film have never seen it, and probably won’t for fear of being turned gay, or worse: liberal.
despite them completely hiding it in the trailers and promotional material
…
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There are only two categories: the status quo (no matter how shitty it might be for some populations) and “political”.
If it’s talking about equality then it’s not political. People’s lives are not political they are not objects for other people to react to. Touch grass.
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I am genuinely amazed this movie wasn’t banned in China
Well they included the nine-dash line in the movies silly map (I believe Vietnam banned the movie because of this) and there’s no zombies or Winnie the Pooh references so all good as far as the CCP goes.
9 dash line?
It’s a line China drew in the south china sea and claim its theirs for historical reason if I remember correctly.
Pissed off a load of other countries as it claimed some of their ocean defined by international law
Wikipedia link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-dash_line
https://twitter.com/rzhongnotes/status/1675936014135619584?s=20
How the fuck can anyone take this seriously is my question. This is not a geopolitical map.
It’s China’s interpretation of how the South China Sea should be divided. AKA they claim the vast majority of it.
This is an insult to the free world. Fuck the Barbie movie.
Tbh that map looks nothing like the nine dash map and there are only eight dashes. It’s quite a stretch imo
It’s absolutely intentionally supposed to be the 9 dash line. You don’t think movie studios are INTIMATELY aware of how to get their movie seen in China?
If you base your relationship on a fucken Hollywood movie then that should be a litmus test in and of itself.
Also, guys, if your girlfriend constantly feels the need to “test” your relationship, then she’s not the right one. Thats a massive red flag.
Wanting to test if your new boyfriend is a misogynist is hardly a red flag. The article doesn’t say anything about testing dudes constantly. It doesn’t even say he has to like the movie, just understand some of its themes.
It’s not basing the relationship off of the movie. It’s just a way to test if any red flags come up.
Sounds like somebody failed the Barbie boyfriend test
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I think it’s probably more marketing for the movie than anything.
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I feel like the movie woooshed you a little bit. The entire point was that both versions of the society sucked. It wasn’t “telling women to be terrible” it was that if either sex acts terrible it’s bad for society.
if your boyfriend is a mysogonos you should do a selfcheck. If you keep attracting asshole then the problem is you.
I agree with what you’re saying except I think the Barbie movie has provided a unique and well thought out message that manny have failed to convey and finally feel they’re being heard.
because reaction to art can be a good indication to what someone thinks. For example, a negative reaction to the song ‘Alabama’ by Neil Young might indicate that the person thinks that Alabama is a swell place and people shouldn’t be putting it down just because it’s government is racist as fuck.
Seeing a movie with someone is part of your experience with them, through which you determine their personality and character, is it not?
I agree that “testing” people is kind of toxic, but the idea that your assessment of a person isn’t cumulative and inclusive feels odd.
I thought the movie criticizes both extreme feminism and male chauvinism, or did I watch a different Barbie movie?
That’s what the article is saying as well.
Any gendered chauvinism sucks and patriarchy causes suffering to anyone.
And if someone comes out of the movie angered by this knowledge, they can be a troublesome person to other people.
Yeah. Barbie Was not the good guy in the Barbie movie, right? Like, even in the end they admit that they will not give the Kens true equality, just enough that they basically won’t revolt again. People here calling Barbie a feminist icon, what movie were you watching?
Obviously she wasn’t the good guy. She developed a nuclear bomb for heaven’s sake. To be fair I did fall asleep for a bit but I’m pretty sure I got the big plot points.
Lmfao what the actual fuck?
I didn’t watch the movie, nor do I know anything about the premise, so seeing that comment and thinking about Barbie the toy is absolutely hilarious…
It was a Barbienheimer joke, I think
It didn’t end up in a world that’s ready. More like a mirror of the real world but maybe healthier?
I take slight issue with your phrasing. “Extreme feminism” isn’t an issue, that’s like saying extreme racial equality is an issue. Feminism isn’t about female superiority, it’s about gender equality. The movie does not criticize extreme feminism, it criticizes chauvinism, whether male or female.
“Extreme feminism” isn’t an issue, that’s like saying extreme racial equality is an issue.
There was a time during the 2010s when third-wave feminism was pushing things too far and trying to create divisive splits on subjects that really didn’t need them, like Atheism+ and a bunch of other things with a plus sign tacked on to it. Fortunately, once the #MeToo movement picked up speed, they switched gears to more important things.
So, yes, you can have an extreme view on anything, even feminism.
I don’t know about you, but I didn’t find that movement extreme, just weird and lost and a tad silly.
When your definition of feminism is “gender equality”, you’re right, there’s no such thing as an extreme. When you take the equity stance and start treating people as groups and funding/defunding one group or the other you are building up new systems of discrimination instead of breaking them down.
That is indeed what is in Barbie - if you watch it and actually think about the themes. If you’re just there for the experience then the message is (quote moviegoer behind my back discussing with friends): “goddamn, this is a step in right direction, we won’t change this patriarchal world with one film however“ :P
On a basic level the message “Ken was silly, broke Barbieworld because he wanted to emulate men, they had to get Barbie and a feminist back to fix it” - and that’s what most people will get out of Barbie.
On a basic level the message “Ken was silly, broke Barbieworld because he wanted to emulate men, they had to get Barbie and a feminist back to fix it”
How did he break it? He basically just flipped the genders so Kens are the ruling/working class and Barbies are just subservient eye candy. Barbie just flipped it back. It’s a broken and unimaginably unfair world in either case.
When Kens ask just for a bit of equality at the end, they are shut down and given some unimportant appeasement as a joke.
When Kens ask just for a bit of equality at the end, they are shut down and given some unimportant appeasement as a joke.
The movie is calling this out on purpose. It’s how women are currently treated in western society.
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I don’t think that’s the feminism that the movie was criticizing, but rather the commodified “girl boss feminism” that holds up conventionally beautiful commercial attainment as the ultimate aspirational icon.
As opposed to the feminism of intersectionality and respect for the rights and choices of normal, everyday women.
Of note…American conservatives/confederates absolutely detest the Barbie movie.
Correct. Honestly, if a dude gets offended by a movie that says “hey dude, learn how to love and value yourself without basing all of your sense of self on your romantic relationship to a woman and you’ll be much happier”, they are NOT a catch at all and they need to shed some shit about their lives.
Is it cool if I just don’t watch it? It doesn’t really appeal to me.
The only reason I have any interest in it is all the conservative jimmy-rustling it’s doing.
This. I tried to buy bud light but it’s legitimately awful. Seeing barbie twice is a way better option.
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Lol
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I thought it was funny but it looks like this got removed.
Appears to be removed, yes
Same, I just can’t bring myself to care about a movie that’s about toys I have zero nostalgia for.
Heh. I feel like they would need to discontinue the toys before any of us get a chance to develop nostalgia.
I’m not nostalgic for Hot Wheels either. I just go buy a Hot Wheel when I want one.
Man, I need to buy me some Hot Wheels…
Bruh… Transformers have been in almost continuous production in one for or another since 1993. They were briefly discontinued in the late 80s and early 90s, and were brought back with the Generation 2 line and then Beast Wars. The longest period that Transformers haven’t been on the market since their introduction to the US market was between Generation 1 and Generation 2 from 1990-1993. Generation 2 fizzled in 1995, and was replace a little over a year later in 1996 with Beast Wars. Since then, the brand has had some continuous shelf presence.
And it’s a huge brand today that is largely sold to adult collectors with an attachment to whichever show or comic they indulged in as a kid. Yes, discontinuation can definitely drive nostalgia and a desire to collect something, but it isn’t a necessity. In the case of Transformers, it’s just created an ever-widening pool of things for new adult collectors to be interested in. Right now, there’s a growing interest in modern updates of the Unicron Trilogy characters (Armada/Energon/Cybertron), which were shows being aired from 2002-2005, followed by Transformers Animated and the Michael Bay films.
Good summary.
I’m just bitter that Barbie and Hot wheels fans didn’t have their favorite toy pulled from the shelves between the late 80s and early 90s.
And Action Masters weren’t really Transformers, and everyone knew it.
Action Masters were hot garbage. Especially since some of them managed to somehow have even less articulation than their original transforming counterpart, which is saying something.
I had no prior experiences with any Barbie-related products or media (adult cis white male in the US) and wasn’t sure whether I’d enjoy it at all. After seeing it, i honestly think there’s something for everyone in this movie. It’s exceptionally well-written (very wry) and makes solid points about the current state of patriarchy in our society. It’s really well-done. Feel free to wait for it to come out on streaming, but then I’d definitely recommend checking it out.
Sure, maybe. I just don’t really think this is a movie made for me.
I feel you, but if the movie shows any type of struggle against power, it is probably a more universal theme than what we percieve , especially here in the US, its probably just not that great of a movie otherwise, but with a relatable message. I have zero interest in seeing it, but now that it’s become this culturally charged, I feel I must.
Eh, I don’t particularly care how ‘culturally charged’ it is, nor do I feel like forcing myself to watch something for a reason like that. I just don’t care enough about Barbie for it to be worth it.
Yea that’s fair, and tbh, the way I live my day to day, I probably won’t end up ever seeing it. Lol
“If you love barbie you’ll love the movie!”
“If you hate barbie you’ll love the movie!”
Idgaf about barbie so I didn’t bother watching.
Of course. I don’t care for Barbie either, and never played with the toys during childhood so there’s no connection for me. I went to watch with my fiance because it was something she was interested in. The movie was okay. Wasn’t great, wasn’t horrible. I think when it becomes telling is when people are somehow offended or pretend like it’s the worst movie created.
That means you are a misogynist through and through. /s
My interest in upbeat movies has never been very high. If it were a thriller or mystery that’d be cool. I’d watch. It’s ok we can pass on this one.
For those who saw the movie: do you think this test is valid?
As a man, I would say sort of. The movie does not shy away from a very obvious feminist message combined with an unsubtle (hilarious) spoof of toxic masculinity. On the other hand, it’s still a matter of personal taste. I really liked the movie, but I could see how someone would find it a bit too simplistic and formulaic in its story, completely independent from its themes. Not liking female directors in general just because they’re female is complete bullshit though.
To be fair it doesn’t say the boyfriend has the like the movie, just understand it and not bash it mindlessly.
I thought the movie was okay. The visuals were stunning the dance numbers fun (if you’re into that, which I am), they did a good job leaning into the comedy world-building and the takes on Ken loving the patriarchy were the most hilarious. Overall I think it did a good job. The story was a bit meh though for me because of how simple it was.
I haven’t seen it, but the criticism I’ve heard is that the feminist message is a pretty obvious one and not very deep. I guess you don’t go to the Barbie movie to “make you think”, but I’ve also heard that the movie spends a bit too long on that obvious message and it gets boring at parts. I think the majority of criticisms aren’t about the message itself, more about the execution of it.
Buuutt this is the internet and the ridiculous voices are always the loudest lol
I haven’t seen it
Do you think we can’t talk about movie reviews unless we’ve seen the movie? Kinda makes the reviews pointless then doesn’t it
you should go see the movie to form your own opinions. plus, it’s a good movie :)
I love reviews for after watching a movie, I don’t want my impression to be changed by someone else.
For example, I loved the Ralph Breaks The Internet sequel! I guess people and reviewers really hated that movie.
So those reviews didn’t impact your decision to see the movie and didn’t change your opinion of the movie after the fact? Sounds like the reviews were kinda pointless for you then, huh? Or at least not useful in their intended way.
I don’t know I one should derive a scientific test out of it, but if a guy gets batshit crazy over the movie, then he might not have the best relation towards independent women.
As a gay man, I say yes. I get to watch the hetero world from the outside and yeah, Barbie nails it. Folks just don’t like the mirror.
It’s not a movie for my taste as I prefer to watch sci-fi, action, thriller or historical themed movies. So if I was forced or coerced into seeing it, I would probably hate it too. Then again, I haven’t seen it so don’t really know for sure.
It doesn’t say you have to like the movie, just understand its themes.
That’s actually a very good point that I didn’t even realise. I did say “hate it” but didn’t mean hating the movie, simply disliking and not enjoying the time.
I guess it’s become far too easy to use extreme words in our daily speech nowadays, for which I blame social media.
I second your opinion and I’m a woman. I just never liked the franchise, no matter how good the movie is, I don’t think I’d enjoy watching it either.
You might not like it, but I have huge barbie issues and went with my 11 yo thinking it would be okay and poke a but of fun and have a slightly feminist bent. I truly loved every minute and am surprised how much I did. It is formulaic but done really well.
It’s rare, but this franchise owner understands very well that a lot of people hate Barbie. It’s even in the trailer “If you love Barbie, this movie is for you. If you hate Barbie, this movie is for you.”
I tend to prefer similar movies as you and I loved the movie. It is a VERY fantastical, intelligent, existential, and heady movie. It’s one of the most expert navigations of complex social dynamics I’ve ever seen and has an absolute shitload of cinema references and easter eggs to boot.
Don’t let the surface fool you. The franchise is just a vehicle for Greta’s ideas to reach a mass audience.
The franchise is a vehicle to sell barbies.
Mattel decided this was the best way in the current cultural mood.
That’s like saying The Lego Movie and the Lego Batman movie were a vehicle to sell Legos. That’s pretty obviously not all they were, and just because they could sell toys that doesn’t mean they weren’t also good movies.
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having a taste does not mean to show hatred. You can simply dislike something and you’re done.
But if you show hatred to a movie, a show, a book and the people who worked on that (actors, directors…) I think you have some issues. And that’s what this article is about right?
Yes. And the movie is fun and wholesome for anyone with taste!
I definitely think it would do a fantastic job of baiting out reactions and listening to what someone has to say about it after would probably clue you in on what stood out to them about it. Obviously none of these types of tests can be conclusive, but I’d say if someone came out of the theater super angry then that’s pretty telling of something at least. A good starting point for further discussion with that person.
On the whole I thought the movie was hilarious and had a very compassionate message for men at the end of the movie as well.
My biggest issue after watching it has just been having to see braindead takes from people online, swinging in both directions. Lots of “the movie hates men” types but I’ve also seen a few “DAE, men bad?” tier takes as well which is a bit disheartening.
I don’t know if it’s defininitive, but I do think it offers good insight into what a person notices when they watch things. There’s a whole lot to notice and think about in the movie
It kinda feels like you could come away with any interpretation you want. Like you could say Barbie put down a slave revolt, and its totally valid.
So yeah, maybe the test is valid.
No. The movie is very antagonistic towards men. I don’t think anyone who has seen the movie can dispute that in good faith.
Practically every male character in both the Barbie world and the real world is portrayed negatively. There are a few exceptions that are portrayed neutrally but they are mostly plot or exposition devices.
Conversely, practically every female character is portrayed positively. This creates a stark contrast that’s very difficult to ignore.
To be clear - personally I don’t care, it takes more to rile me up. But hating a movie that is deliberately spiteful towards your demographic is not an abnormal reaction. Neither is “slamming” the people who made it.
Do you really not see that’s how women are typically treated in movies? They’re just there to be arm candy to the men, don’t have real personality or depth, and just exist to make the men feel good about themselves.
It’s just funny to watch dudes get so riled up about how kens are treated, especially when at the end the Kens do get their own story arc. Unlike how women are treated in nearly all movies.
It’s antagonistic towards the patriarchy. You completely misunderstood the Ken plot and are the one arguing in bad faith.
In fact, your response is exactly why some people view the movie as a good way to see what an individual pays attention to and whether or not they genuinely understand what the film is critiquing and why.
You failed.
Please partake in the culture war, don’t just let conservatives win by default.
That’s interesting. I read that the film was about radical feminism, but gender switched with Ken as the feminist to overthrow the Barbie-dominating system. Really look forward to seeing the movie.
I thought the movie was exceedingly clever and is a shining example of how sometimes a message is more about what it doesn’t say that what it does.
That being said, the movie is definitely a rorschach test and you will see what you are primed to believe reflected in it.
My understanding is that the film undercuts most of its social commentary and ends up a wash, so watch it for the absurd interpretation of barbie life.
It’s also incredibly ham fisted and decides to tell and not show. The jokes were pretty funny though.
It’s basically about Andrew Tate
They’re allowed to watch Barbie in China? How censored is it?
I don’t get why you’d think it would be censored? If anything the movie skewers US capitalism, so the CCP would probably be happy for folks to see it.
Since a while hollywood has been making movies keeping china and its censorship in mind !
According to the guide, if a man shows hatred for “Barbie” and slams female directors after they leave the theatre, then this man is “stingy” and a “toxic chauvinist,” according to Insider’s translation of the post
Nothing against female directors, but the movie went from pretty damn good to pretty damn boring after a while.
You’ve got a fun and quirky beginning that makes light fun of barbie, mattel and patriarchal society. Then you’ve got the bits where
spoiler
Barbie and Ken get to the real world, get arrested twice for doing stupid shit.
This part was funny and for a bit there I felt like it was mainly not about driving a message home, but still had SOME things to say. Great! Then you’ve got the parts where
spoiler
Ken went on his own journey to discover patriarchy (which he thought had something to do with horses and was disappointed to find out it didn’t), Barbie meets her owner’s daughter, goes to Mattel HQ, then gets chased out and rescued by her owner.
Many hilarious moments here, poking lots of fun at patriarchy again, but it never felt like it was too on the nose. I mean I kinda expected that from the trailers and everything.
Where the movie started changing for me was when
spoiler
Barbie, her owner, and the latter’s daughter went back to the Barbie world to help fix the balance, only to find out that the Kens had completely taken over.
While the twist was predictable, it was still interesting because I wanted to know how they would resolve it. But it just kinda… fell off after that? At this point you have the expected low point in the protagonist’s life, and then they figure out how to fix everything, but it was just so… boring and uninspired somehow. By this point, the movie’s quirky and fun nature has worn down its’ course and the
spoiler
battle of the Kens
just did nothing for me anymore.
What’s worse, I was expecting
spoiler
the Mattel board of directors, particularly Will Ferrell’s characters to be villains and instead they just… arrived by the end of the movie and had a change of heart.
That subverted my expectations for sure, but not in a good way whatsoever. Slightly reminiscent of the last seasons of Game of Thrones.
And lastly, I really expected the resolution of the plot to have something to do with horses and I was sorely disappointed about that too.
TL;DR: Movie starts out great, but foreshadows things it doesn’t follow through on very well, ending is boring and sappy.
How dare you, that dance-off between Simu Liu and Ryan Gosling (and the other Kens) was incredible!
Ken was alright, but Ken really stole the show in that scene.
I believe the term is “beach off”
I’ll beach you off right now!
I was just waiting for them to kiss tbh
based
About at the part where ::: spoiler spoiler Barbie is comforting Ken on the bed ::: I said to my partner “It feels like this movie has been ending for a while now,” and that was still a good way off from credits. I did appreciate that ::: spoiler spoiler Barbie and Ken didn’t end up together, it was a good message that men and women both need to be okay with themselves before they pursue a relationship. I loved the “I am Kenough” shirt. :::
A few issues I had personally (oops wall of text lol): ::: spoiler spoiler They really hold their punches on toxic masculinity. There are no men who are outright misogynistic and believe women to be subhuman. They’re all just dumb and misguided. They also made a small attempt to point out that patriarchal society is negative for men too with the “sometimes I wish we could all have tickle fights” bit, but I do wish they would have dug a little deeper into how awful it is that men are expected to never have emotions and bottle up. It was also really weird that the kid called Barbie a fascist… It almost felt like they were using that word wrong on purpose to reduce its meaning, or get Republicans in the audience to roll their eyes at the stupid SJW calling everything they don’t like fascist. Also weird that at different points the movie claims Barbie saved women or set them back 50 years…like, it’s just a doll. Yes, a popular doll, but it’s weird to claim women gained or lost power in society solely because of a doll and not through the actions of feminists and antifeminists. :::
I’m general, I’m happy with the film’s lessons, although it feels weird for Hollywood to be the one preaching them to me.
Most of the scenes were pretty enjoyable in isolation. The problem I see is that it feels like they tried to combine two scripts to address the same issue from opposite directions. Either approach could have been good, but each one undercut the other so it just wound up confusedly sabotaging its message.
I can agree with this, the messages got super muddy. They tried to say something about being a woman, being a man, and being a human, but all three were dulled from being stacked on top of each other.
I don’t think this at all. It’s a very dense movie, but I don’t think it suffered for it, and if anything actually enhanced the message that a lot of social expectations are murky and arbitrary.
I’m planning on seeing it again.
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That’s not what I meant at all and have adjusted the text to hopefully be more clear.
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As someone who watched it high, too many drastic vibe changes. From a fun laughably corny movie, to this serious 10 minute diatribe about every possible challenge a woman could potentially face in her life really killed the mood. Many of the scenes with the mother/daughter really detracted from the film honestly.
It’s like putting jar jar in star wars.
Sounds schizophrenic
I fully agree. It was a fun movie to see but that’s about it… they could have made such a good ending and set up a sequel
Ehhhhh, sequel??
You really wouldn’t want to see a barbie vs he-man movie? Or some other ridiculous set up? I’m not even a big fan of the movie… just seemed like a good financial idea for Mattel
I find your criticism of the parts of the movie you don’t like to be super weak and unspecific. The crux of the entire movie is the juxtaposition between what’s it’s like in Barbie ruled barbie world vs ken ruled barbie world. It’s literally the lens though which the movie criticizes patriarchy.
Ken bringing patriarchy back to barbie world I don’t think was a twist, it was the clear narrative arc from the moment ken fell in love with patriarchy.
Matell being villains is a clear misreading of the plot from your point of view. Matell is the butt of the joke the entirety of the film. They don’t drive the plot, and were never in control of anything that happens. Why would you expect them to become the villains? That’s your own internal biases leaking (and maybe putting too much of Mugatu onto will Farrell)
Lastly, in much the same way that the opening of barbie is an homage to 2001 a space Odyssey, (that scene they are parodying specifically in the original movie is about the death of old paradigms and the beginning of new ones), the beach battle is an homage to patriarchally driven war media, specifically D-Day scenes such as from saving private Ryan. It’s the death of patriarchy subverted through a traditionally patriarchal approach.
I find your criticism of the parts of the movie you don’t like to be super weak and unspecific
It’s been 2 weeks and the latter half of the movie wasn’t good enough to remember every detail tbh, I just remember which parts I enjoyed and which made me sleepy. I watched Oppenheimer right after and have a much better recollection of that. I’m also neither a movie critic, nor even a native English speaker, so I don’t really know all the jargon I should be using instead of saying things like “boring”.
The crux of the entire movie is the juxtaposition between what’s it’s like in Barbie ruled barbie world vs ken ruled barbie world. It’s literally the lens though which the movie criticizes patriarchy.
Cool, I didn’t criticize that at all though, I said it got boring when they started SOLVING the issue.
Matell being villains is a clear misreading of the plot from your point of view. Matell is the butt of the joke the entirety of the film. They don’t drive the plot, and were never in control of anything that happens. Why would you expect them to become the villains?
Did we watch the same movie? The Mattel board was incompetent for sure (of course they would be, they’re men who only got their powerful jobs because of the patriarchy), but they were antagonists in the first half of the movie, would’ve caught her if she hadn’t been helped by America Ferrera’s character, and it was foreshadowed that they would at least… DO something in the second half of the movie. They literally started marching to barbie world to grab her as she could move between worlds and they obviously had a problem with it. Then they get there and it was resolved with essentially no conflict, they just had a change of heart. I could’ve seen them cutting a deal of some sort with the Kens to stop Barbie or something like that. You know, men conspiring to keep women down (which of course is exactly what the Kens were doing, I’m just surprised that the Mattel board didn’t try to do it in barbie world).
Ken bringing patriarchy back to barbie world I don’t think was a twist, it was the clear narrative arc from the moment ken fell in love with patriarchy.
I guess twist isn’t the right term. I didn’t put much more than 5 minutes of thought into writing the original comment, and as mentioned, I’m neither a movie critic, nor a native speaker. You still get what I meant though.
the beach battle is an homage to patriarchally driven war media, specifically D-Day scenes such as from saving private Ryan. It’s the death of patriarchy subverted through a traditionally patriarchal approach.
Sure, and I don’t disagree with the idea of it, it’s just that by the time we get to it, we’re used to everything the movie throws at us and it feels too weak to save the end of the movie, which other than this scene is just slow, emotional and boring compared to the setup. Going by the first half of the movie, I just wasn’t expecting that much sap and speechmaking towards the end. Traditionally movies start slow and then speed up, but Barbie started fast and then kinda slowed down and that just doesn’t sit well with me.
