I’ve kept chickens. They do not understand the family concept. Roosters will happily rape their siblings or their mothers, and hens will enforce a gruelling pecking order even if it means someone dies of hunger/beatings 😢
I wonder if they would do the same free in the nature. Locked together in tight spaces and restricted freedom will change the behaviour of every creature.
This is the default behaviour for chickens. I can’t think of any chicken like creatures that exists in the wild that resembles. The chickens I kept had plenty of room both inside and outside. Outside was a predator proof fence around a large area with different kinds of vegetation, bushes and wet and dry environments (I also had a couple of mallards). Inside they had running water, things to climb on to roost, and various boxes to lay and sleep in. Every week I cleaned their living quarters and threw down fresh bedding. They were not for food or for egg production. I ate and gave away the eggs they laid.
Edit: to keep the roosters from doing the dirty with close relatives, I swapped rooster with other people that kept poultry as a hobby
yea i do the same with mine, they roam free in the garden during the day and have a protected outdoor and indoor area so its basically a large playground for them and still the behavior you mentioned is what i see as well. also chickens in the wild? the measures i had to take to keep my chickens safe from foxes, martens, cats, dogs… is just crazy, they have zero defense capabilities so i dont know how they survived ubtill we kept them as livestock
Chickens originated from the red jungle fowl which is a much leaner and flighted bird (as are certain breeds of chicken) We’ve made modern chickens into something that can’t survive in the wild, much like we turned wolves into pugs!
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This all reminds me I miss having chickens and ducks. One of the bad sides living in a big city for work, I guess
i love my chickens, they eat all my scraps and weeds from the garden, fertillize my garden, fresh eggs every day which i trade with neighbors for his surplus veggies or a a batch of waffles. its a nice way to live
Red junglefowl are undomesticated chickens.
And are far enough removed genetically that they can’t interbreed.
Ever heard of domestication?
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Yep. I’ve seen hens scalp their own chicks because they were a different colour from the others.
PETA does often miss the mark on the way they try to make a point.
PETA bad amirite?
More like frequently insufferable.
I would assume that large chicken farms would separate the mother from the chicks long before any family bond could be established. There are a lot of viable concerns about how the animals are handled and treated, but the issue of separating a family is just not one of them.
Peta is Peta’ing yet another subject.
So you consider humanity superior in morality to chickens right? Which means that you identify the horrible things they do as horrible, and deem them unacceptable and definitely shouldn’t be repeated by a being of supposed higher intellect and control over one’s own actions beyond simple instincts?
Seems like an even better argument against eating other animals and especially, especially industrialized factory farming if you ask me, where everything you said is still done, but by humans to the chickens.
Big logical gaps in this argument:
The op never said they were superior morally.
Even, given the above, the op deemed chickens immoral that does not make all chickens’ actions immoral. Preening, roosting and eating grain are not immoral activities.
Defining only the horrible acts as horrible is a circular argument as no definition has been provided as horrible.
Other than those three, you really stuck it to the carnist, chief.
Oh look an anti-vegan circlejerk.
Do the “how do you know someone’s vegan? They’ll tell you” joke next. I promise it doesn’t come off as insecure.
How do you know someone hates vegans? They’ll tell you.
Oh look, you just told everyone what you eat. Joke’s on you.
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Begone vegan
I think I saw my 67 year old aunt post this on Facebook.
I mean I’m just saying, banning meat lobby shilling and boomer tier animal abuse memes is morally good. Would be pretty based mod. Idk. They can get shit on in the thread for sure but I wouldn’t mind not seeing the brain rot 🤷♂️
Yea, screw this kind of stuff.
Most people on here will know vegetarians or in some cases be one. It’s a respectable choice that takes a lot of willpower and energy. People who make fun of that aren’t my crowd. Mostly because it’s a dick thing to do.
As one who does not care if the food i eat has meat in it, maybe i can clarify why people react like this. It’s simple: you make me feel like i’m some sort of a heartless, evil person for eating meat, i will make you feel bad as well. Eating chicken is murder ? We humans are omnivores, we eat anything. Meat is less efficient land wise, but is more efficient to digest. Morals have nothing to do with it, as we have long evolved to be that way.
If you want people to eat more plants; my advice is to make it a better option. I often make myself a 100% plant pasta sauce, but that takes 3x longer to do and doesn’t cost much less then just grilling a piece of meat and cutting a tomato or two. Make cheap tasty vegetarian fast food stalls, cheap mini markets, etc. Calling people murderers will make some of them hate you.
PS I have a vegetarian friend, for over a decade i didn’t know he was. Respect his decision, has nothing to do with me.
May I request that you watch Dominion, a 2018 documentary about the farming industry. https://youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko
If, after watching it, you still don’t care about consuming animal products or not then fair enough. People seem so sure they already know how animals are farmed so they don’t need to learn about it or watch this kinda thing, but I feel many people would be shocked to actually see with their own eyes that it’s not ‘happy cows living it up in green fields all day’ like the farming industry would like us all to continue believing.
Many people who work in factory farms end up with all kinds of mental illnesses. Even those who are desensitised to the suffering of animals end up with PTSD and severe depression from contributing to this man-made animal hell.
My grandparents had pigs, chicken, goats, etc. And my father has farm animals. I’v also seen larger scale farming in my country. It’s not so bad as what you are thinking of, here is not the usa. I know of what you want to show me. Maybe go watch Clarksons Farm for a different view ? Do what you want either way.
So have you seen Dominion already? I just find it hard to believe anyone can watch Dominion from start to finish and not be done with animal products forever, unless they lack any form of empathy.
I don’t see how your family having farm animals has much relevance unless they keep them as part of an animal sanctuary where the animals can live out their lives in peace and safety, plenty of room to roam and live as they would like to live their lives? Were any of the animals’ lives cut short so that they could be eaten? Were any of them ever forced to do something they didn’t want to do? Did any of the animals that were slaughtered actually want to die?
When you say you’ve seen large scale farming in your country, was that in the slaughterhouses? All of the animals were treated with courtesy and respect? Never mistreated? Imagine for a moment that instead of animals being farmed, it was your family members being farmed… would you feel that they were all being treated fairly and justly then? Being herded around and murdered in the prime of their lives so someone can enjoy a sandwich?
Animals have feelings and emotions just like human animals… the way they feel things will be very similar to how we feel things, both pain and happiness amongst all the other types of feelings and emotions. Imagine again your family being stunned before being murdered, does that make the murder ok because they didn’t suffer at the moment of death? Or perhaps you live in a country where you don’t even need to stun the animal before killing, you can just hang them upside down and skirt their throat while they slowly die in agony.
I’ve seen a clip of Clarksons farm, it was something to do with him always feeling dread when it was time for his animals to be slaughtered. I’m assuming because even a complete buffoon like Clarkson knows deep down, it’s wrong to kill animals.
Yea, one sided conversations usually don’t go far. Have fun in your life.
I suspect you don’t understand what a one sided conversation is, but ok, good luck and have fun with your life too.
Unpopular take: Good people doing bad things does not make the bad things not bad. Yes, purchasing and consuming animal products is a morally bad thing to do. It is not morally neutral.
So yes, by consuming animal products, you are a worse person than you would be if you were not.
Your choice is to purchase the bodies of the dead and “respect” the fact they at they were killed by turning them into sewage. Your choice is to financially reward those who bring them into existence for the sole purpose of killing them for your pleasure and the killers’ profit. This is not a morally neutral thing. This is a morally bad thing.
Personal choice stops being personal when there’s a victim. The victim is the one whose corpse is being ground up in your mouth.
Look, I agree that eating meat is morally bad, I accept that. What most extremist vegetarians need to accept is that there’s people that simple don’t care about animals as much as them, I don’t really care about it just like I don’t really care about some bad things happening in the world, I know that it’s morally wrong, and I’ll push for more options for the people that do care, but I won’t restrict my diet or personally try to fix those things, because I don’t care enough.
And this sounds quite rude and I look like an ass, I know, but the reality is that there’s a lot of people that think exactly like this. Hell there’s tons of people that thinks like this about actual humans. You won’t convince those people because in the end, it’s their decision and as bad as eating red meat etc is for the body and global warming etc, so are tons of other stuff that people do.
I really advocate for more vegetarian stuff, I actually enjoy seitan/tofu and dishes with them, but the fact is that I’ll keep consuming meat once in a while, and when you start trying to make every meat consumer your enemy, you also make people from my group, people that actually push for more progress, your enemy, and that’s honestly a bad way to make progress.
This is going to be a generational progress, there’s way more vegetarian teenagers than 40+ people, and every friend group I frequent on my age range 25-35 has at least someone vegetarian, and businesses naturally will offer more options because if they won’t they’ll lose business.
Try not making society your enemy, because if you do you will become the enemy of society.
Bro the carrots have a consciousness.
And the angel of the lord came unto me, Snatching me up from my place of slumber, And took me on high and higher still Until we moved to the spaces betwixt the air itself, And he brought me unto a vast farmland of our own Midwest, And as we descended, cries of impending doom rose from the soil; One thousand, nay, a million, voices full of fear, And terror possessed me then, And I begged “Angel of the Lord, what are these tortured screams?”, And the angel said unto me “These are the cries of the carrots, the cries of the carrots! You see, Reverend Maynard, Tomorrow is harvest day, and to them, it is the holocaust!” And I sprang from my slumber, drenched in sweat, Like the tears of one million terrified brothers and roared “Hear me now, I have seen the light! They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers!”
This is necessary This is necessary Life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on This is necessary This is necessary Life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on life
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Your opinion isn’t unpopular and you are not oppressed if the media supports you.
The problem is when the animal suffers. Animals eat other animals all the time and you’re not a killer if you want to eat meat and be healthy.
If killing animals to eat them is immoral and sadistic even if the animal doesn’t suffer then why you kill fucking plants to eat them? I value animals’ lives and plants’ lives more than human lives but I won’t stop eating just because of that neither will force people or say they’re killers cause they’re eating something that was previously alive.
Animals eat other animals out of necessity to survive. Humans don’t need to consume animal products at all to be healthy.
If you pay someone to kill and/or torture an animal, mortality wise that is the same as doing it yourself.
Is this a super hypothetical animal not suffering? Every animal that is any of the following: subjugated, imprisoned, artificially inseminated, branded, murdered, factory farmed, either taken from his/her mother or their offspring taken from them, neglected etc. Suffers. I don’t know how much you know about the farming industry, but the vast majority of farmed animals will suffer horrendously and be killed unkindly, unjustly and will before their natural lifespan. Their lives and murder are a real-life hell. Knocking the animals out before slitting their throats doesn’t always work. Many, many animals end up taking ages to die while being conscious. Many animals are boiled alive because they didn’t get knocked out. But that is just at the point of being murdered… almost all farm animals up to that point will have suffered varying degrees of mental and physical torture.
I don’t know if you are joking about comparing eating plants being the same as eating animals. A lot of meat eaters do seem to make that argument as if it is genuine, so I’ll respond to it by pasting a part of a book I read recently about it;
"Firstly and most obviously, it’s important to address the science behind this. A plant lacks a central nervous system, pain receptors and a brain which means that anatomically they don’t have the ability to feel pain.
If we also consider that the primary reason human and non-human animals feel pain is to alert us that we are in danger or are being hurt and that we need to escape the situation that we are in, a plant cannot move and thus any pain would be inescapable, making life torturous for any plant. Which begs the question, why would plants ever evolve such a horribly debilitating and destructive characteristic, as it goes against the fundamental purpose of evolution?
If we now view the “plants feel pain argument” from a creationist point of view, why would a benevolent and compassionate God give such a horrible curse to plants? Why would he allow them to suffer so terribly, if it served no purpose for their survival?
I think part of where the confusion regarding plants and pain comes from is that it is true that they are alive and they conduct various activities at a cellular level, such as tilting to face the sunlight. In fact, plants are capable of doing some truly amazing things, but they do not conduct any activities at a conscious or cognitive level, in essence meaning that plants are not sentient.
I think a really good way of highlighting this to people is to point out that plants react but they don’t respond. A venus fly trap shuts itself on to a fly, not because it is consciously aware that a fly has landed onto it, but because it reacts to the pressure stimuli caused when the fly lands onto it. This is why the venus flytrap will close around anything that triggers this response, including cigarette butts. A cow on the other hand, won’t eat cigarette butts just because someone puts them in their mouth because a cow consciously responds.
If we move past the science of whether or not plants feel pain and concentrate on the ethics of the excuse, I am doubtful that anyone truly believes that dropping a cauliflower into boiling water and boiling chickens alive (something that often happens in the chicken slaughtering process) is the same thing. Nobody thinks that slicing the neck of a cow is similar to cutting the stems off a broccoli, or castrating a pig is similar to peeling a potato. But say the person you are talking to is determined that plants feel pain like animals do - it takes up to 16 kilograms of plants to create 1 kilogram of animal flesh, meaning vastly more plants are killed in the production of animal products than they are vegan products. On top of this it’s important to note that up to 91% of Amazon rainforest destruction is due to animal agriculture, meaning that millions of trees have been and continues to be destroyed because of our consumption of animal products.
So if the person you are speaking to truly believes that plants feel pain and are sentient, then remind them that by consuming non-vegan products they are not only causing the suffering of animals but also causing the alleged suffering of huge amounts of plants as well. To be honest, if this excuse comes up I often avoid talking about the science of whether or not plants have the ability to feel pain as sometimes people will say, “but science has only gone so far” and they get stuck with that point. Instead, I often just go straight into talking about the amount of crops killed for animal products, so perhaps try asking: “For the sake of discussion, let’s say plants do feel pain, are you aware that it can take up to 16 kilograms of plants to create 1 kilogram of animal flesh, so vastly more plants are murdered for animal products than they are vegan products?” You could also ask, “If you were driving down the road and a dog jumped out in front of your car, would you swerve onto a bed of flowers to avoid hitting the dog?” - this reinforces in people’s minds that there is morally a difference between non-human animals and plants, as in that situation we would always choose to avoid the dog and instead hit the plants"
Plants can feel pain and it’s not a creationist standpoint, they just can’t make a visible reaction but they do transmit very small electric charges in reaction to pain. Plants also can react to other things like sounds and it is sometimes used to make them grow better. Also, they can’t scream but they’re still alive so you’re still murdering them.
Animals aren’t tortured cause of the simple fact stress makes their meat bad (and it would be a crime and stupid to torture an animal just cause you can) and sometimes nearly not edible and, if you couldn’t notice, people don’t eat bad meat.
“Lie for youself if you want but not to me.” You can pretend your unhealthy is helping someone but you can’t say to people it is healthy. Vegans face many health issues and are, almost always, very underweight; humans are omnivores and not herbivores. Destroy your body if want but don’t lie to other people and encourage them to do the same.
I figured you have been trolling from the start but ok… A visible reaction in plants = pain? Just because there is a reaction in something, doesn’t mean it has to be pain. How do you know the reaction isn’t pleasure or you know… just a reaction without a feeling involved?
Also, I didn’t say that it was just a creationist idea, part of the book passage I pasted covered that incase people try to argue it from that standpoint, but the main focus is the science behind the idea I’m pretty sure the concept of murder covers sentient beings.
But let’s say for sake of argument they do feel pain, many, many more plants are grown and ‘murdered’, as you put it, to be fed to farm animals than straight to humans. So for the human race to cut down on both animal and plant murder, it would be best to cut out animal farming altogether which would save both trillions of animals and many more trillions of plants from being tortured and murdered. Humans obviously need to eat to survive, so why not go with the way that causes the least suffering both animal and plant wise, if it can’t be cut out completely?
To quote my favourite philosopher as to why he was vegetarian “cows scream louder than carrots”.
You may continue to voice your mis/disinformation about veganism being unhealthy, but these days there’s so much proof that being vegan can be healthy, not only healthy but has many health benefits over a meat eating diet including missing out on all kinds of diseases which come from a meaty diet. Biologically speaking it seems humans have most in common with frugivores. I’m thinking most people think we are omnivores simply because we are able to eat both plants and animals. Real omnivores are many times biologically better evolved to have meat in their diet.
Several of the biggest health organisations in the world have confirmed that a vegan diet is healthy. I don’t know where you get your information from, but it is incredibly faulty.
murderer.
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD SAUSAGE
Based.
Yes, let’s start censoring people based on morality. That has never ever gone wrong.
Yes let all the Nazis racists eugenicists etcetera run wild because we don’t want to censor based on morality 🥺🥺
Ah yes, Nazis hating
…checks post…
chickens?
Well, this escalated rather quickly…
Just Godwin’s law at work here.
Oh, I’m all for having a chuckle at the expensive of people who make inappropriate Nazi comparisons.
A) I don’t have to equivocate. Killing humans isn’t the same as killing a chicken. We agree. The point is obvious. Moderation exists for a reason. Discrimination and normalizing violence are things worth moderating. You’re either being intellectually dishonest in response or need to give it a little more thought.
B) Species difference aside, their experience at scale is by definition a holocaust. 136 million will die today alone. They can’t grasp the scale as individuals, but they experience it personally. Believe it or not, some people value non-human life. Whether or not you do is not relevant given lack of moral justification.
You can’t expect people in here to have some kind of brain. It’s like trying to understand how they want a free (as in freedom) Internet without big tech at the same time they want censorship of their opponents and are lefties.
Haha don’t be silly - most of the chicken’s family went into the chicken shredder to be turned into feed.
KFC’s newest disclaimer: Family Bucket does not mean the entire family of chickens are in the same bucket.
Oyakodonburi
Oya = parent Ko = child Donburi = on rice
Chicken and egg on rice
Ah yes, the food that sounds cute but has deep dark meaning: kill the parents and eat the unborn children.
You understand the egg in this dish is unfertilized, yes?
Yes, but it sounds more savage this way.
Maybe step relative but definitely incest free!
fOr eVeRy aNiMaL YoU DoN’T EaT, i’lL EaT TwO
More for me.
Why is memes a back and forth of vegan vs anti vegan. Make your own damn communities. So damn tiresome to see the same comment thread every day in a different post.
Right?! This was just a low-effort repost to get some laughs. It actually ended up making me laugh hard today with how ridiculous it’s gotten.
I dunno, I have a pet chicken, and I still eat chicken.
Shitty flawed emotional manipulation fails
Its like PETA doesn’t understand the topic they are about.
Look, PETA is not exactly the model organization they think they are. Actually they have plenty of issues and hypocrisy with their own messages and IMO are by no means a credible or reliable source. BUT, credit where credit’s due, their shitpost that everyone hated got more discussion from both sides on the realities of the meat industry than any whistleblower or researcher publishing a paper on the conditions of industrialized meat farming, its environmental and climate implications. More engagement from this than pretty much any measured response, analysis, or criticism of the meat industry or the ethics of eating meat that has ever come out. This thread is an example of that.
That might say more about the nature of internet culture and what people will actually respond to and engage with than anything else. Obviously in an ideal world everyone will engage way more with those whistleblower and scientific researcher findings and organizations like PETA wouldn’t even exist, and it would be the measured responses that will be the things triggering discussion on subjects like plant-based meat and veganism, probably a much more level headed discussion since that tend to be more dependent on the context of the discussion than the subject itself, and we really should be working toward that. But, I think that’s still a silver lining because we absolutely need to be having these discussions.
This is like the rolling coal of meat eating. I hoped we were better than this
fossil fuels need to be phased out completely.
meat eating doesn’t, it can be part of sustainable gardening.
but yeah the anti-vegan circlejerk is stupid, who gives a shit what you eat
This is why it’s important to order the nuggets too.
Personally, I just think the moral middle ground would be to be the person that slaughters and butchers the animals you eat. It would allow the most respect for all parties imo.
The moral middle ground is to not kill animals (or pay someone to) if you don’t need to.
I don’t know. That feels a bit off-center to me rather than middle considering one end of the spectrum is “kill nothing ever” and the other end is “How many endangered animals can I make extinct just for funsies.” If everyone killed what they ate themselves, manually, I bet we’d have a bunch more vegetarians hanging around.
Surely one side would be “kill nothing” and the other would be “kill animals”?
Right but how else will they move the goal post to get a conversational W
I think it’s morally neutral to ask why we kill animals. Do you kill the animals you eat?
I agree that question is morally neutral. And not yet, I don’t, but that is the long term goal. I’ve got the land I would need and am working on fencing. In the interim, I have switched to meat raised and butchered by hand.
By your definition, are you morally evil, trying to become neutral?
Hmmm, I hadn’t considered it in those particular terms, previously. I would definitely say my actions are less moral than they would be if I was doing the raising and butchering myself. Evil feels harsh but if we are using clear cut terms like good, neutral and evil, then I have to put my current actions in the evil column. And since my entire argument is based on a moral middle ground, I would say yes. I am attempting to move into morally neutral territory.
PETA is such a joke lol
do you eat animals?
Yeah fuck this comm. It’s all I see when I open Lemmy, and the jokes really are just boomer humor.
You can block communities
No no no! It’s better to shriek about my hurt little feelings and demand federation or whatever.
Ur so cool and macho for downplaying others opinions on animal slaughter.
I bet your dad would be super proud of you! Yes he would! Who’s a good little daddy’s boy! You are!
My dad was killed before I was born, and I was raised by sisters and aunts. So you can take your hollering about the patriarchy somewhere tf else lol. Got any other talking points you’d like to try out?
If that’s true and not an attempt to emotionally stun the conversation as is common in dipshit trolls, I’m sorry for your loss.
Back to your dumbass toxic masculinity comment now - you literally argued that they were being “emotional” despite nothing in their argument being emotional
But yeah we can pretend you somehow had a point lmao
That Texas heat has you delusional. hopefully climate change from the massive meat farm industry won’t fuck up that privatized (lmao epic win right) electrical grid yall rely on.
Lord knows I’ll be lobbying that you all get not one penny of aid.
Dude starts yapping on about “my daddy” like it’s a kingpin argument. Now I’m “emotional” you fuckers are comical.
I’m comical??? Lmao
Your brilliant, typical southern response to someone expressing how they feel about a situation was to call them emotional.
How is that not typical toxic masculinity/patriarchy. You don’t need a father or male role model in your life to be affected by, oh I don’t know, the rest of the fucking men in the country?
You fuckers need to get your head out of the sand, learn how to have civil debate again (like the south used to be, prior to getting FUCKED on the civil war) and reinvest in your education systems because you sound dumb as fuck right now
It’s a joke. Lighten up.
Also, label it what you want, but I’m a millennial.
