“It’s horrible for everybody. Yeah, I lost my son, it’s harder on our family, but I don’t want the rest of her life ruined too. It isn’t going to make me feel any better,” he said.
As hard as it is to say something like that… we need more people like this.
It’s a nice sentiment, but…
This was premeditated. She needs to be held accountable and have consequences for what she willfully and knowingly did.
She literally killed people. I’m not sure this can be a case of “forgive and let her off lightly.”
I don’t think he’s saying she shouldn’t be accountable and face consequences. He’s said he didn’t want her to spend life in jail. That’s going to be pretty radical for a lot of folks.
Some people are going to think that life in prison or the death penalty should be the minimum consequence. Others are going to think that even a monster like this can repent, change and (unlike her victims) be allowed to live free eventually.
Edit. Yikes. Important typo. “Don’t”
That’s fair, and I get it. To me, that’s absolutely radical, especially if it was my child who was harmed.
I personally have just learned from experience that people who get off easy are likely to continue on the path of destructive behavior.
I’m not necessarily calling for her death or anything… but the punishment needs to fit the crime. Two lives are permanently gone from this world because of the careless and stupid choices she made.
I personally have just learned from experience that people who get off easy are likely to continue on the path of destructive behavior.
Likewise, although my experience is with a racist idiot on a Discord server who I was far too lenient with.
Oh, absolutely. The internet adds the layer of anonymity, too, so that certainly doesn’t help.
You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink.
And if that horse is being hateful and violent on top of that, it’s a lost cause.
I would agree, but I’d argue that that’s because our current system doesn’t actually rehabilitate people, and solely exists to punish people. Which solves practically nothing.
That’s fair. Still, though, something is needed.
For me, it’s not about whether or not she can change and repent. I’m all for prison reforms that make prison safe and offer inmates opportunities for growth and self-improvement while they serve their sentences, but I think punishments need to fit crimes and this girl intentionally killed two other people. I think a sentence of 15 years to life is actually a bit lenient (I’m used to 25 years to life being the standard for premeditated murder). I don’t think she should mandatorily have to spend her entire life in prison, but I also don’t think she should get to enjoy even fraction of the life she robbed those two boys of. Ideally, with good behavior, I’d like to see her get out at 45-50 years of age. She would still have a few decades left, but the prime of her life would be gone—no career, no kids. That seems fair to me.
And yet on the same turn, if the father was calling for the death penalty or even a lengthy prison sentence, you all would be admonishing the fact that he even got a say and stating this is why justice systems shouldn’t be about satisfying the victim at all.
The hypocrisy is really blatant and self-serving. Should people be punished for their crimes or not? If yes, then you need to support predetermined sentences for crimes that apply equally across all cases, including this one. If no, then you don’t really believe in justice or government, but something much more insidious.
There’s a middle ground between life in prison and just a slap on the wrist
I agree. 15 years is hardly “life” in prison, though. I think it’s more than fair.
People change. They get better. The guy who shot Reagan got better, and they let him out. Now he writes love songs and posts them on YouTube, and sells his paintings on eBay.
The guy who shot Reagan was already better. /S
Better if he’d hit the goddamn range once or twice…
15 years seems like a perfectly adequate amount of time for that.
I agree that there should be time served, and a significant amount of it. I’m okay with 15 years. This person needs to be set aside from society while we determine if we can help them and, if we can, to do it.
I’d like to know how we arrived at 15 years, though. Would 10 not be enough? If the court had suggested 20 I don’t think either of us would have said “But surely it can be done in 15.” It feels right but it looks kinda arbitrary and that’s interesting to me.
Oh it’s completely arbitrary. The only way I can think of making it non arbitrary would be a very long study to see how long was necessary for people to genuinely rehabilitate, but even then, it would be based on their own arbitrary sentences.
Does “15 years to life” mean anything? Or is it just “15 years”?
Means there’s a chance they get out on parole at 15 years. So they may end up with a life sentence if not approved, but regardless, she is serving 15 years.
Being 17, I’d attribute some of the blame to her parents or whomever owns that vehicle.
Is driving recklessly really the only symptom of being this emotionally deregulated? Did they not know how stupid or mentally ill she is?
I bet the adults around her did not care or excused her behaviour.
I bet her dad was a party clown who was hoping this would happen.
Like where the fuck do you get all of these assumptions from?
That’s fine, but she still made a conscious decision to do it. If she was one year older, would that make any kind of difference?
And let me be clear: mental illness can make some behaviors more understandable, but not murder– if the blame is put solely on mental illness, all that does is put more stigma on it. Not every shitty decision people make is because of “mental illness”.
Why only murder? Why not rape or assault or abuse or any number of different crimes deeply mentally ill people commit on the regular that ruin lives far more deeply than the death of a loved one?
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I’m not sure you know what the word “reactionary” means if you think that my comments and opinions were “reactionary”.
The family can grieve, and my opinion has no bearing on the outcome of whatever happens. My point was, in the end, no matter what the reason, there needs to be consequences for someone who killed people, regardless of what the grieving parties think. I don’t think that’s particularly radical.
It’s a sad and awful situation al around. I can see why those poor families just want to move on.
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Did they not know how stupid or mentally ill she is?
Just want to shout out here as an anxious and depressed person, the vast majority of the mentally ill are not psychopathic murderers. Mental health absolutely pays a role in decision making, but except for super extremely rare cases, it doesn’t turn someone into a murderer.
I witnessed this in a case. Young driver wasn’t paying attention and crossed the line, struck head on and killed an elderly woman on her way to chemotherapy, no joke.
On the recommendation and impassioned pleas of the victim’s family, the defendant plead a manslaughter charge down to a $75 fine for failure to maintain lane or some such infraction. I don’t remember all the facts but was struck by the forward thinking and empathy. The young driver was truly remorseful, part of the pleas were that he had suffered enough, that the memory of what he had done was punishment enough.
Definitely not the same situation at all. This wasn’t some distracted driver, she had literally threatened to do exactly this before.
From what I can tell, they never claimed it was the same situation. They said they’ve seen victims asking for a reduction in punishment, that’s all.
Chill out and stop jumping on people for something they never said.
Chill out and stop jumping on people for something they never said.
All they commented was that it wasn’t the same situation. That’s a pretty normal thing to do when someone says “oh yeah I remember that happening in this one instance”. They didn’t go after the person or bite their head off or even express aggression.
Ironically, you’re the one jumping on someone for what they didn’t say and perceived aggression that isn’t there.
I was reacting specifically to the corded portion of the article above, in which one of the victims survivors asked for leniency.
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Isn’t it equally obvious that there would be a situation where parents of a dead child would want leniency for the accused?
That’s a nice story, in a way, but not even remotely close to this case.
It’s a direct response to another comment, not to the article.
Sounds like that was an accident, not homicide. That isn’t the same thing.
Did you read the grandparent comment?
I was reacting to the specific quote above.
What the fuck are you on about?
Yeah man. I can say I would like to think I would be that forgiving of a person, but I probably wouldn’t.
I can’t believe I’m being held responsible for my actions!!
If this were a case of a young driver who was driving irresponsibly fast and lost control of the car, killing their friends, that would be one thing. This is a 17 year old who repeatedly threatened her boyfriend with killing him while driving in the weeks before the accident, who made no attempt to avoid/stop ramming at full speed into a large building.
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Yeah like, this wasn’t an accident. This was willfully killing someone. If she shot or repeatedly stabbed him, I don’t think you’d see the same sentiment. Something about hitting them with a mass of metal at high speeds is more sympathetic, because death by car strikes us at less violent.
I’d be incredibly proud of my mother if she could do that. Not many are capable of having empathy when someone they love is the victim.
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So you’re assuming what the mother’s intentions are to fit your own opinion, rather than believing her at her word?
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…you don’t think she gave thought to the other people victimized? Even with one of the victims being her own child?
I’d bet my life that she’s put significantly more thought into this than either of us could possibly imagine, and that calling her a narcissist is simply closed-minded and pathetic. She’s a grieving mother ffs.
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During the investigation, she asked if they could just suspend her license for 10 years
“I just killed two people with a car, so I think being forced to use Uber for a decade is an appropriate sentence.”
It’s a shame she’s not a male athlete with a promising swimming career. Might have gotten off with having to take a remedial driving course and paid a small fine.
Oh! You’re talking about the sexual predator/rapist Brock Turner, who now goes by the name Allen Turner.
This is one Reddit trend that Lemmy should absolutely continue
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Honestly, if she hadn’t threaded to kill her boyfriend with her car before this happened, then I think suspending her license for a decade or two or may be life would be the right solution. Prison shouldn’t be a punishment, but a way to keep everyone else safe from dangerous people. If she won’t drive, then she isn’t a danger. But it sounds like she’s dangerous no matter what.
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Agreed. I wish the USA had this point of view, but instead we do view it as an oubliette to put people we dont like / are too poor
Yes, but mercy and rehabilitation should not come at the expense of the innocent.
Plus, when I think rehabilitating people in jail, I’m thinking of nonviolent offenses. Premeditated murder isn’t on my list of crimes I think someone can come back from, not when it’s like this.
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Someone in prison getting the help and rehabilitation they need are not a threat to “the innocent”
Well yes, that’s my point. They’re in prison. They should have access to rehabilitation and high quality psychiatric care.
I’m personally pretty happy with letting cunts like this swiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing.
The trial featured surveillance video played in court showing the moment Shirilla accelerated towards the building without stopping, until a gut-wrenching crash is heard.
Anyone capable of doing this deserves prison time.
Agreed. We know she did it on purpose and is a dangerous person in general, not just a careless or even reckless driver. She needs to be in prison to keep us safe. Shes different than someone who is merely a bad driver, or even a reckless driver who just needs to be kept out of a car to keep everyone around them safe.
Yeah this is exactly why there’s the option to try a minor as an adult.
Prison shouldn’t be a punishment
Yes, it absolutely should be. I can’t stand people who think the criminal justice system shouldn’t dole out punishments, but should only aim to rehabilitate people. You folks have absolutely no empathy for victims. Punishments are important, because criminals cause suffering to other people. The entire concept of justice is based on the idea that criminals should suffer at least a modicum of the harm they do to others as payment for their crimes. Over the centuries, we have done away with the “eye for an eye” model of punishment and decided that the worst sentences we can hand down are execution and life in prison, and most people today aren’t actually in favor of execution. Spending your life in prison is a slap on the wrist compared to being murdered.
I’m sure this girl could be rehabilitated within a few years. Under your model, she’d walk free while the parents and siblings of her victims were still trying to recover mentally from what she did to their families. Your lack of empathy for them is repugnant. You should feel ashamed.
Seems like you are blending the concepts of punishment and that of revenge. While a criminal, who’s crime has been proved in court should absolutely be punished for the crimes he/she committed according to the corresponding law, the sentences should not be led or even influenced by the feeling of “taking revenge for the victims”, because that’s not what a punishment should be about.
I guess this is one of the main differences between judicial systems and their underlying philosophies in the US and in Europe. While in the US the state can kill / execute some person, because this person has killed another person, that would be unthinkable in Europe, because the state does not have such a “right” and killing / executing a murderer would also be a crime against that person’s life.
European systems are more driven by the idea of “resocialising” criminals, so that they could eventually become acceptable members of society again some day.
The US’s sense of justice is very much informed by the widespread belief in a deity that requires people to conflate cruelty and love.
Dude. She murdered two men. That’s a dangerous individual.
No one said she wasn’t. But there is a difference between punishment and revenge.
You think she will be the same person in 15 years?
Uber? Omg that’s horrendous!
Better than a nasty ass public e scooter.
Just remember Ethan Couch in 2013 diagnosed with Afluenza, A condition where someone is too rich to understand the consequences of their actions.
He was 16. He and a bunch of friends went to Walmart. They stole beer and drove drunk. He killed 4 people on the side of the road. A passenger in his car suffered brain damage and was paralyzed.
This kid was sentenced with a 10 year parole. He violated that parole by going to a party to drink. He and his mom fled to Mexico to avoid punishment. He was captured and then given a 720 day sentence in prison.
He murdered 4 people and paralyzed one of his friends. He got parole. Violated parole. Fled the country. And then was given 2 years in prison.
This is how you know that being rich sets you up for life. It doesn’t matter what they’ll do - it’ll end up a slap on the wrist at best. The system is unjust and corrupt.
Reading the article, the driver seems to have purposely accelerated into the building with the intention to kill her boyfriend.
Both are shitty but I would think this is worse
One teenager chose to drive drunk and he killed 4 people. This teenager got in a fight with her boyfriend (presumably) and killed 2 people.
Can you explain what’s worse?
Intent.
Driving drunk is absolutely stupid and anyone who does should be punished. The kids a shithead and deserved about 10 times more the prison sentence he got, but he did not start the night planning to kill 4 people with his friends. It was an accident, completely and absolutely preventable and one he is solely responsible for and should have gone to prison for his negligence, but an accident.
This girl told her boyfriend she would kill him this exact way. She had this planned. She drove by that same place earlier. She got in that car knowing it was going to to end the way it did.
Of course. That’s easy.
Only one person in those examples intended to kill someone, and then followed through with the plan. Murder is worse than unintentionally killing and hurting people through negligence.
It’s really easy to explain.
Sounds more like a prank influenzer to me
The Ohio teenager dubbed “hell on wheels” — who was convicted of intentionally crashing her car at 100 mph into a building, killing her boyfriend and his friend — was sentenced to two concurrent 15 years to life sentences Monday.
Judge Russo shared blistering remarks and condemned Shirilla’s actions saying: “She had a mission, and she executed it with precision. The mission was death.”
Judge Russo said in handing down her verdict remarks that Shirilla was “literal hell on wheels,” saying she intentionally drove at an hour when not many witnesses would be around, on a path she didn’t routinely use but had visited days before.
Prosecutors argued in the trial that Shirilla had become turbulent and threatening towards her boyfriend and crashed to end their relationship.
Misleading as hell titles for this running around. I thought she was just driving fast based on what I saw in the headlines last week. She totally deserves the murder charges.
I mean, causing a crash and killing someone in the process of speeding is still deserving of a murder sentence.
I believe stateside it’s called ‘manslaughter’ in a case such as that. Manslaughter is “the crime of killing a human being without malice aforethought, or otherwise in circumstances not amounting to murder.” So no, it wouldn’t be deserving of a murder sentence… Edit: Unless the jury or judge deemed it so, of course.
To make matters even more confusing it all depends on state. Most have manslaughter and for a couple it would be 3rd degree murder.
Hmmmm. No.
There are judges in North Dakota, North Carolina, Florida, Tennessee and Texas that would say “well, were they protesting or something?”
Food for thought.
Or Portland, even.
This food is spoiled, throw it out.
I am absolutely floored that she survived too. Was she the only one wearing a seatbelt?
Nah, must be her thick skull
you’d think so, but the real secret: no brain to damage
It took police 45 minutes to get to the scene of the crash… fucking what?
This wasn’t exactly in the middle of nowhere
Psst I have some surprising information for you
That the police in the USA don’t want to do their job?
He said surprising
Hey so kind of off topic, but did anyone else read this and think this might be a problem? - “Police arrived to the scene around 45 minutes later.”
By itself? No.
It does not say “Police arrived 45 minutes after it was reported”. From that statement alone we have no idea how long between the crash and someone seeing it and reporting.
Also that’s police, not EMS. I don’t really care if police arrive at all as long as EMS gets there quickly. They can always call for police too.
In this case that’s fair, but in some cases, particularly attempted murders, EMS may have to wait for police to ensure the scene is safe for them to work in anyway. Not to mention most police have at least some first aid training. Police response times are also very important.
Did you read the part about it being very early in the morning? Who do you think is calling the police? The dead victims?
Come on. You must be a little smarter than that, it’s all in the article…
I always enjoy when people lash out with ‘you must be smarter’ troll bait from a simple observation. Side note; I’ve stayed in Strongsville many times when traveling for work in Cleveland. It’s not a huge burb by any means, and it’s also not ‘empty’ or completely devoid of life. I certainly wouldn’t think there were areas I could crash my car and not have anyone report it over half an hour. FYI I’m only replying to you to hopefully educate you. If you pop your mouth off with more trollish bullshit it’s just going to be insta ignore. But by all means…
Was she trying to kill herself too or what? How did she survive when they both died at the scene?
Luck, car engineering, and medical science. She was seriously injured. Was she trying to kill herself, I have no idea. Clearly needs mental health treatment which she’s not likely to get in prison. Not that I think she should be free either.
Yeah, I don’t get it either. Even if she’s got a serious mental health condition, the odds of her not understanding that everyone in that car was likely to die are slim to none. Being unbalanced enough to be willing to end your own life, but not so unbalanced that you’ve already been committed or ostracized by your loved ones, is just so hard for me to comprehend.
How is she eligible for release if she’s found guilty of two murders? Or 15 years rather than something like 40? Murder is one of the few things I think should carry a punitive sentence rather than rehab.
Don’t think people can ever change, eh?
A punitive system does not a good society make.
Well said Yoda
Don’t think people can ever change, eh?
In this case, you’re betting future people’s lives on a known murderer changing.
Disclaimer: I’m neither for nor against that.
Yeah, I’d rather a known murder have the opportunity to change and potentially be a better person than to only let them rot in a fucked up punitive system.
A chance to change, sure. But it would be a mistake to pretend it’s not also a chance to kill again. And it turns out people actually can’t change, meaningfully, without remorse for their past deeds— And you can’t ever actually know whether they feel that. Mercy feels very good until you realize ten years later how much pain you could have avoided otherwise.
Also, you’re presenting a false dichotomy between “Set them loose on the world” versus “Isolation and torture for the rest of their life”.
It’s unacceptable to put innocent people at risk in order to give a convicted violent criminal mercy. It’s very easy to say they should be released on good behavior when you live hundreds of miles away. Unless someone is willing to live as that person’s roommate or neighbor, I think it’s completely hypocritical to chastise others for supporting incarceration.
Somebody’s damned no matter what. The victim deserves justice. The survivors deserve peace. The perpetrator deserves a chance to do better. And the rest of us deserve safety.
And these things cannot be reconciled. But I’m not willing to just give upon on any of them. So yes, if you could guarantee that it would give us a decent shot at having all of these things, I would be willing and honoured to live as that person’s neighbour or roommate. ..I’ve repeatedly made decisions before in my life that I think prove this, without even realising it. My life is worth less too if theirs is ruined, and I don’t actually innately care about my own safety if I think I can help someone else.
But nobody can currently guarantee that. So, I honestly don’t care anymore. Lock them up for good and throw away the key, or kill the survivors too and then kill me too for good measure; I don’t care. Just don’t make me choose who to damn, because what I want to see is for the victim to be alive, not avenged, and for the criminal to be helped, not brutally crushed— but we can’t have that anyway.
And Ffs, don’t let a known dangerous criminal have the chance to kill again and pretend it’s just mercy or kindness or whatever without a dangerous level of foolishness behind it while condescending at anyone who would want to see a more cautious approach. And don’t pretend that ruining one more life for some perverse ideal of “punishment” or revenge is going to fix anything either.
This is a shitty situation, and we’ve already lost to end up in it. People have already been hurt, and no matter what you choose, more people are probably going to end up being hurt before it’s over. Pretending mercy will magically fix everything is almost just as stupid and evil as pretending “punishment” serves any moral purpose other than cruelty.
…I’d want some kind of mercy for the man or woman who murders me. But it’s not my place to demand it for someone else’s killer, who may well go around being a threat to more and more people.
I don’t actually innately care about my own safety if I think I can help someone else.
It’s important that I address this if nothing else. If you truly want to be a help for someone else, you need to value your safety. You need to care about yourself. If you get killed helping person A, then what about person B or C who comes afterwards and would’ve benefited exceptionally from your help? If you want to serve, you need to serve yourself too.
Calm down, your making too much sense.
Supporting the current method of incarceration should put you in it. The US should be tried for cruelty and inhumane punishments, per our “justice” system.
It just tells me that said person has no idea how terrible the system is, and that they have zero empathy.
Oh, also: https://mkorostoff.github.io/incarceration-in-real-numbers/
Additionally, from the previous link
Would you bet your life on it?
Yes. I do it every day when I drive.
Giving them a chance to change is very different than granting leniency. She should have a serious opportunity at rehabilitation, but she shouldn’t be free in society unless you’d feel safe leaving her with your loved ones unattended.
We should grant mercy as often as we can, but it can never come at the expense of the innocent. I’d rather let a murderer who has genuinely changed die in prison than release a supposedly changed murderer who kills again. I’m certainly not volunteering to be that person’s neighbor if they’re released on good behavior.
We should grant mercy as often as we can, but it can never come at the expense of the innocent.
You’re presenting a pretty idealized version of our justice system, i think. A big part of why I support leniency is because of how often our justice system gets it wrong. It’s crazy to think that bad luck and low social standing can cost you most of your life. Any punishment meant for violent criminals will inevitably target a substantial number of innocents or nonviolent offenders. It’s wishful thinking to believe our justice system is usually “just”. We should strive to help the victims feel vindicates as much as possible, but it will inevitably, usually come at the expense of the innocent.
“Don’t kill people”
What? I’m outraged. Think of the poor murderers trying to be good people.
I imagine it’s her age. She wasn’t even legally an adult, not that that excuses it. Losing all her 20s and most of her 30s basically means if she does get out at exactly 15 years she’s probably much screwed her whole life even setting aside the felony on her record. Her life will look nothing like she imagined.
That’s even ignoring what being in prison for that long will do to you mentally. From what I’ve heard, it’s almost a whole other world in there.
I can’t imagine getting out after spending 15 years of my life in prison, and being able to keep the same quirks and mannerisms. Everything is just different. It’s tough for fully grown adults to transition through, let alone someone who spent the last half of their teens.
That being said, neither of those two dead people will ever get to see a sunrise again. They’ll never get to feel the wind on their face, or tell their parents that they love them. For what?
Intentionally murdering innocent people is despicable and soulless. I hope that they give her a lot of therapy and mental help in there. What a tragic end for such young lives.
Her life will look nothing like she imagined.
You could say the same of the two men she murdered, yeah?
It has been statistically proven that white women get easier sentences than men of any race. Her age also probably played in to that.
Reminds me of this news story by the Onion. It was ruled that a young white woman would have to stand trial as a black man.
Seriously glad she is off the streets, that girl is psycho.
Totally deserved. I have been the passenger in a similar situation to this - shit was horrifying. I got 100000000% lucky that I wasn’t injured in the crash.
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You need to make up your mind Josh. No prison for anyone or “same” prison sentences for everyone, which is it? Else your comment looks just like bait. Totally against prison, lol
On a side note: this is also why teenagers should not be driving cars. She was 17 and able to driver her friends around? WTH?
Until she’s 18 she should not have a driver’s license
Once 18 she should, until 21, only be able to drive around with an adult over 21 next to her to monitor her driving
Cars are 2 tonnes of death on wheels, why do we allow irresponsible teenagers to play around with that?
Well then again, this is the US were talking about, teenagers can get near military grade weapons as well and nothing ever goes wrong with that, so what am I complaining about rite?
The vast majority of teenagers are fine and require transportation to get to work/school. I wouldn’t argue against restrictions on passengers but completely stripping them of driving would fuck up so many things. How does a 18-21 year old get back and forth to college without a car for example?
That is an Americas problem. All the cities there are very badly designed, just for cars. In Europe (holy hell, the Netherlands) you can get everywhere by bike or public transportation or just plain walking and it’s awesome. In the US things are the way they are because of bad city design and lack of any public transportation.
Yes, minimum driving age should be 18 and even then require adult supervision.
Even from rural areas?
Yes.
8 year olds also need to go to school, are we going to put those in cars too?
8 year olds go to school in the same town they live in and the school district has busses to go pick them up or their parents can go drop them off quickly. The same can’t be said for a student going to a college in a different town/city there’s not going to be a public transportation option that just goes straight to their school or to their job from school or whatever they need to do. They might be able to accomplish it by switching busses a couple times or something but that will add a ton of time to their commute. It’s not practical.
On top of that, pushing the driving age back will just result in a bunch of inexperienced 18/21 year old drivers and we’ll be having the same conversation about them after a few years go by.
I used to ride 25 kms (16 miles, give or take?) to and from work, every day. These distances aren’t extreme eitherloads of kids would (and do) drive that to school every day as well.
The thing that makes that possible is safe and comfortable bike lanes. More than 30 kms? use busses. If you have a good public transportation system, these busses will have direct connections and drive every 15-30 minutes during school hours.
I know, this sounds insane in the US but that is because car manufacturers have brainwashed US citizens with the nonsense that this is how it must be. Your cities are godawful, all of them, because every city is Designed for cars, not for humans. If you get into a city designed for humans you’ll be amazed. I know because every American is amazed by how beautiful cities can be when they see them.
How long did it take to bike 16 miles?
It doesn’t matter what age is it. It’s not like people suddenly stop being reckless and careless at 21. I’ve heard enough horror stories of people who are way ahead of legal age doing dangerous stuff.
Generally speaking, people get more responsible when they get older. Yes of course there are exceptions, some people bever grow up, but seriously… Giving a 16 year old a sports car? Are they nuts?
