I have no confidence that Tesla will fix this before the planned Robo-Taxi rollout in Austin in 2 weeks.
After all, they haven’t fixed it in the last 9 years that self-driving Teslas have been on the road.
They know these things are going to kill people; it’s just inevitable.
Engineers are well aware of there being a cost-benefit analysis for saving human lives. O’Grady from Practical Engineering did a great video explaining how much a human life is worth to engineers. I think it was a little under $60k.
The purpose of reducing government oversight as much as possible is so that the cost of killing people is as low as possible.
It’s not an on/off switch of government regulation. They know that every additional policy they can shift in their favor will translate to increased profits down the line as people inevitably die from these things.
Fight Club taught me the cost of human life to corporations.
If PredictedLawsuitLosses < CostOfRecall then RecallNotAnnounced
Human life doesn’t factor in at all for them.
Human life absolutely factors into predicted lawsuit losses. Wrongful death lawsuits are expensive.
What I meant is they don’t care about people as people.
It’s just a number to them.
If they can profit of millions dying and they know they could get away with it, they would.
But not expensive enough to stop them killing people through negligence and greed.
Some of you may die~
But it’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make.
This is why capitalists align with fascists.
Google, Meta, etc, are all taking the knee, because no regulation lets them slurp up our data. Target is shooting itself in the foot on DEI to appease stupid Mussolini, because a fascist autocrat doesn’t enforce labor protections.
Fascism, at its core, is an alignment between government and corporations. Capitalists align with fascism because that’s the entire point of fascism.
Damn, must suck living in the US
I lived there for six-ish years- from 1998 until 2004.
When Americans re-elected GWB, I realized “this place is RAPIDLY becoming a shithole that’s only going to get worse.” I got the hell out as soon as I was able, and every single day since, I’ve been more relieved I left when I did.
On the bright side, maybe this is building up to an “owner of the Segway company”-type ending?
Tesla self driving is already responsible for the deaths of multiple people.
They weren’t held accountable for those.
Nothing will meaningfully improve until the rich fear for their lives
If regular school shootings were no reason to actually do something, why would regular deadly accidents with self driving systems be one? I’m always amazed by what Americans are willing to tolerate.
Every day more people feel like they have nothing to lose.
It’s only a matter of time before they direct their ire towards the ones who put them in that position.
It’s only a matter of time before they direct their ire towards the ones who put them in that position.
I’d not hold my breath waiting for that. Why do you think billionaires own almost all newspapers/social media/mainstream media? They’ll always find someone or something else to blame, keep us divided. And this has worked well enough for centuries.
There’s been like 3 CEO’S murdered this year
Chin up
That’s slightly different since most states will put full responsibility on the driver even for autonomous cars. If there’s no driver, though, it would go back to the manufacturer. That’s why Uber gave up on self driving after one of their test cars ran over someone.
So, the USA people are the beta testers, i guess.
only Texans… (with the robotaxis)
Texas state legislature has passed a law making it illegal for cities to pass laws more restrictive than the state laws and Austin which is known to be full of progressives. This makes it a perfect place for Tesla to beta-test it’s software. They’ll kill people likely to vote for Democrats.
Thoughts and prayers.
Might also explain why they’re the only ones that seem to have all this knowledge of a population crisis that no one else is aware of.
Thank God for the technocratic elite, and their foresight to know their plans for greatness will almost certainly wipe out the entire U.S. population. Hazard of being part of the unwashed masses, I guess.
Glad they are doing all this while they simultaneously argue that a loss of our personal liberty is a small price to pay for their protection. If they weren’t keeping us safe from… ::gestures vaguely:: China(?) then who would?
Put some respect to their name, off course they are alpha (males!) testers.
So motorcyclists weren’t enough, they’re going after kids now? Did they move their headquarters to israel?
rofl
I guess there’s going to be a lot of heroes popping Robo-Taxi tires. To protect their community and all that.
I recall that people blocked Waymo cars at one point by simply placing orange cones in front of them. Given Teslas only use cameras I wonder if you could just slap a sticker of an orange cone (or just a splash of orange paint) on the hood and confuse it enough that it wouldn’t move…
Edit: Or, if you really want to be a dick, get some black stickers (the stronger the glue the better) and surreptitiously put them over one or more cameras.
Given Teslas only use cameras
This still blows my mind. My fucking robot vacuum uses LiDAR, and multi-ton vehicles on public roads use cameras? Jesus Christ.
“Well you see lidar cameras are expensive. Yeah… that’s the excuse. No more questions” - Tesla whenever they are asked to explain themselves
Actually the excuse Musk uses is that humans only use their eyes to drive, so that’s enough for cars as well.
Wrong on so many levels…
Right… except for hearing horns, sirens or brakes screeching. Feeling a bump in the road and using the tactile feedback to determine if you should swerve or stop.
Elon Musk has been chaffeured the vast majority of his life and it shows.
In my country when you do a driving test one of the things you have to do is pass a hazard perception test. Everyone hates it because it consists of watching a video and clicking on the hazards when you notice them.
The problem is it’s almost impossible because the Field of view is probably only about 90°, you can’t turn your head because you’re locked to the forward-facing camera position, and you lack all the other information.
There are practise tests online, it’s interesting to take them because it really does show you how dependent you are on things other than just direct vision.
Correction: Robo-Taxis Hit the Child in 2 Weeks
My immediate thought was “That’s not all they’re going to be hitting…”
Did they try it with a lighter colored child?
deleted by creator
No worries, it happens a lot, people are just drawn to me
Ope, now I regret deleting my edited explanation! That is an excellent response to my accidental comment.
Texas releasing these things in public is horrifying. Tesla is last in this field, and refuses to add LIDAR, which is obviously what is needed.
My $60 robot vacuum has lidar…
Maybe you can get a business going mounting roombas on Tesla bumpers?
Call it clean energy
I award you the dubious honor of “Best Pun on the Thread”
Lidar is one of the things it needs, but even when they properly see what’s ahead they don’t interpret it correctly and don’t take the correct actions, it’s bigger than just lidar, which is honestly terrifying
Let’s not get carried away pretending America cares too much about children dying frfr.
Yeah once they’re out of the womb, fuck 'em. We only care about the unborn.
They don’t actually care about the unborn either. They just want women to suffer, that’s always been the only goal.
If we did the Carolina Lean is a bigger threat than Elon, but somehow that’s legal in most states.
Yeah the draconian punishment and outcry when someone dares to overtake a school bus is absolutely laughable.
Give that child chance to be shot the next day in school! Or starve to death, because they can’t afford school lunches.
The article doesn’t mention anything about where the cars will be driving in Austin, but I reluctantly took a Waymo from the airport in Phoenix to a hotel and it did really well. Even slowed down for a guy who was jaywalking.
It ended up taking longer than expected because apparently they’re either require or trained on different roads than you would normally take (e.g. no highways). It did such a good job, though, that I ended up taking a Waymo a second time while there.
All this to say that it may not be ready for all roads, but is ready for some. Definitely still scary though.
I believe Waymo has a better set of sensors (Lidar + Radar+ Cameras instead of just cameras), more processing power, and more research / time / resources spent on it compared to Tesla.
So it’s not that we aren’t ready for self driving taxis, but rather about which cars are ready to provide that service
I think Waymo is also trying to prioritize safety. I was in San Francisco recently and took one, just out of curiosity, from my hotel to a Giants game. It seemed to stop when pedestrian traffic got heavy instead of going all the way to the stadium. So, like three blocks from the stadium. No biggie. I might have told a human taxi driver I could walk from there.
I’m not sure if it’s a California regulation or Waymo trying to play it safe but I will never get in a self-driving car regulated by Texas and designed to the specifications of one of history’s biggest dumbasses.
Texas is a shithole that only exists to serve businessmen at this point.
That’s why elon and republicans love it so much.
Working with cities to regulate self-driving and plan out specific routes/infrastructure was always going to be the only path to widespread adoption but Elon was too busy grifting off bullshit claims like everyone’s Teslas moonlighting as self-driving taxis and paying for themselves.
Makes sense. There were sensors alll over that thing.
That’s part of the reason Teslas are not well-suited for this. One camera, each direction, with no other sensors to help make decisions, is a really bad way to ensure safety.
Humans normally have two “front facing cameras” (i.e. two eyes) so we have depth perception. We also process light differently than cameras do so infrared light (for one) doesn’t affect our decisions. We also have ears so the sound of a loud motorcycle engine tips us off if we just see a spec in the distance. We also use context clues to help our decisions, like if other drivers change lanes quickly we are extra observant of road obstacles.
Not that technology can never be as good as a human at driving, but we use a lot more than a single “moving picture” to decide what we should do.
To be fair, the Tesla vision system has 3 cameras facing forward. One in the center above the front bumper grille and two behind the rear view mirror. Those two provide some level of stereoscopic vision to help judge distances.
But yeah, the lack of other sensors is a huge issue. Anything from bug splatter to mud to snow etc. can easily obscure one or more cameras and render the whole vision system unreliable.
We also process light differently than cameras do
To expand on this a little further, human vision has also developed the ability to filter out unnecessary information in order to avoid overloading the brain. When tracking moving objects the eyes mostly send deltas of the movement to the brain. Computers, however, are the exact opposite. The cameras essentially send a series of still images, and it’s up to the computer to compare them to look for any movement.
Waymo is really interesting - you probably wouldn’t guess it, I’m a cautiously optimistic autonomy person! Waymo is already 12x safer than human drivers, that’s brilliant, I love that.
Teslas will (allegedly) start on a small, low-complexity street grid in Austin. exact size TBA. Presumably, they’re mapping the shit out of it and throwing compute power at analyzing their existing data for that postage stamp.
The rub… that all points out the obvious danger of rolling out the wild-west FSD that Tesla drivers are currently employing everywhere else. If it’s safe enough to trust to drive your car for you, why does it need a ton of additional guard-rails to operate without a safety driver?
Yeah it’s scary to think about. There should be laws though that you’re still 100% at fault if you were not driving during an accident. I imagine another issue with FSD is government having a backdoor into your car to immobilize you or whatever they want. Part of me is in favor of that, but of course that a huuuge responsibility that can be abused.
The fun part is tesla FSD shuts off just before accidents, so you’re always the one at fault.
You would be the one at fault in most states anyway as long as you’re technically operating the car. They do that mostly for potential lawsuits from their customers.
So you’re saying it’s good at anticipating accidents haha
Teslas will (allegedly) start on a small, low-complexity street grid in Austin. exact size TBA. Presumably, they’re mapping the shit out of it and throwing compute power at analyzing their existing data for that postage stamp.
Lol where are the Tesla fanboys insisting that geofencing isn’t useful for developing self driving tech?
I am optimistic about self driving, just not Teslas. Unlike other self driving cars, Tesla is exlusively reliant on cameras. Others, like Waymo, have cameras, lidarr sensors and radar.
It’s weird–Tesla at least projected some sort of ‘higher-end’ quality back when they first started coming around but as time has gone on it’s proven itself to be a very cheaply-made vehicle.
The fact they insist on using their proven-inferior tech for FSD tells you all you need to know: they aren’t looking to innovate or even bring themselves up to modern standards. They are determined to make their cars with the cheapest, shittiest tech and they’ll just grease the right palms in order to proceed as necessary.
Elon’s success as a businessman beyond being very good at self promotion is that he’s a brilliant cost cutter. SpaceX exists as it does today thanks to his exceptional ability to make people do great things with the least amount of resources and processes possible. The problem is at this point he has bought in too much into his own myth to the point he’s a caricature of his own self. Sensors are expensive and ugly, so he doesn’t want to use them and his argument is that humans don’t have sensors, only eyes. Which is a fine philosophy if you’re trying to create a system that is as dangerous as humans behind the wheel but I thought the idea was to make something better.
The children were hamas obviously
They were behind white genocide in South Africa
“And if you don’t support killing them, you support terrorists, mmmkaaaaayyyy” — Bill Maher
If their “AI” wind shield wipers could identify…rain?..I’d be more hopeful about identifying a child.
Move fast and break things!
Move fast and break
thingsschoolchildren!“fail faster” was always my favourite
Did you mean: Move fast and murder children?
I still don’t get how anyone thought this notion was ever considered a good strategy for anything… it clearly shows these people have no skin in the game because there is no way they would break their own things
I’m developing a game engine, that is currently unpopular, instead of trying to make the old API work with the new rendering system, I just decided to completely redo a lot of stuff. It was mandatory for the GUI subsystem as previously it was a spaghetti code of mess, now it’s a pretty well usable thing. It was less mandatory with the sprite and tile rendering, but I needed to adjust stuff to OpenGL, as previously it used the CPU.
so, move slower and fix things! I like your style better
A German party campaigned under the slogan “Digital first. Bedenken second” (Sic, i.e. mostly english). Bedenken means concerns.
They were punished pretty hard last election.
I wonder if the FSD disengaged mere seconds before impact so Tesla can blame anything but their shitty software.
Tesla be like: Yeet the child!
