systemd cat and GNU cat hugging a Linux cat.

    • vrighter@discuss.tchncs.de
      416·
      5 days ago

      because the over 70 different binaries of systemd are “not modular” because they are designed to work together. What makes a monolith is, apparently, the name of the overarching project, not it being a single binary (which again, it’s not)

      • Hupf@feddit.org
        101·
        5 days ago

        What makes it a monolith is that the 70 binaries refuse to do their one job (see: Unix philosophy) independently.

        A few months ago, a systemd update broke my boot process because I dared set up my device-mapper nodes manually in a minimal initrd without having a second copy of systemd in there as well. The device is there, yet systemd times out “waiting for device”. How come then a manual mount -a in the rescue shell works then?

        If course, the bug had already been reported and swiftly rejected by L. “Hurr durr bother your distributor not me” Pottering.

    • drathvedro@lemm.ee
      10·
      5 days ago

      If you have to ask, then there’s no reason not to. It’s people who tinker with their systems that encounter issues with it, or more often random annoyances that add up over tme to those memes.

  • wolf@lemmy.zipEnglish
    26·
    4 days ago

    Since you asked for OS and not Linux: OpenBSD and FreeBSD are beautiful systems w/o systemd. I would switch in a heartbeat if I wouldn’t need Linux for work reasons.

    • Opisek@lemmy.world
      451·
      4 days ago

      This feels like an “I would switch to Linux if I didn’t need Windows for work” comment from another universe.

      • wolf@lemmy.zipEnglish
        10·
        4 days ago

        Fair point. :-)

        At the end of the day, the OS has to run the software/applications one needs to get shit done… if it is macOS or Windows, that’s okay.

        In my defense, I ran NetBSD for several years a long time back, and it was one of the best OS experiences I ever had. I am just old/pragmatic/flexible enough, to choose setups with less friction, if possible. ;-)

        Still, I think it is a shame that Linux mostly took over the UNIX world and the BDS are left for hardcore nerds/embedding/game consoles and Solaris and co are not viable options anymore. Portable software and its stability benefited a lot from bugs detected on other platforms (OpenBSD was always a forerunner here).

        • wolf@lemmy.zipEnglish
          7·
          4 days ago

          Not sure what you want to express. I actually used BSD a long time back, and the quality/documentation/coherence/beauty of the system are/were just on another level… Running Debian for nearly a decade now, because of compatibility (with hardware and software I need)… Linux improved a lot in the last nearly 3 decades and I am happy it exists, still I would be more happy if the BSDs would have stayed at least on an equal footing.

          • Shin@lemmy.worldEnglish
            7·
            4 days ago

            I think the comment speaks for itself. There wasn’t anything deep behind it. It literally just mean “Linux users look at BSD users how Windows users look at Linux.” Bewildered, mystified maybe? It’s just lower on the “food chain”, and they are surprised to see people using it because it’s missing “X” feature they can’t live without, for many people that being gaming. I’m in the same camp.

            It was not a comment on the quality of the software, as I have never used it. I would love to tinker with it one day to see the differences, but I can’t see myself ever switching to it, even if I admire/envy some of the better parts compared to Linux.

            • tryagain@lemmy.ml
              3·
              4 days ago

              I feel there’s a similar relation between Mac :: Ubuntu (me) :: Arch.

              I try to explain to folks that I have very little interest in anything outside of /home. I truly use Ubuntu because I like the desktop and Steam works and I have all the dev tools I need. But a certain type of otherwise competent Mac-using developer thinks I must be a 1337 h4x0r to even dare to use Linux for actual work.

              • Shin@lemmy.worldEnglish
                1·
                4 days ago

                Any “hate” in regards to you using Ubuntu is more likely to do with controversy involving Canonical than it is you using a beginner-friendly distro. People are more likely to be kinder to the Mint user.

            • wolf@lemmy.zipEnglish
              5·
              4 days ago

              Thanks for clarification!

              … and I think you are point on, by now, the ship has sailed. I could use FreeBSD/OpenBSD on servers, but I’d rather run Debian everywhere. On desktops and for day to day usage, the BSDs are no viable options anymore, they simply lack support for common hardware (Wifi etc.) alone and the BSDs will realistically never be able to catch up the chasm anymore.

  • NeatNit@discuss.tchncs.de
    565·
    5 days ago

    As a user, why should I care whether the distro I use uses systemd? I use Mint and I don’t remember having to interact with that kind of low-level nonsense. The distro maintainers can use whatever reasoning they want to pick these details.

    • kautau@lemmy.world
      261·
      5 days ago

      Tribalism exists in every circle, perhaps moreso in tech circles. Ironically anyone who hates on a distro could just switch, or build their own distro if they were so inclined, but it’s often the hating that people participate more in than using their system. Use what works for you, and if it no longer works for you use something else.

    • notabot@piefed.socialEnglish
      12·
      5 days ago

      If you are just a user, in that a computer is just a tool you use, then you’re right, there’s comparatively little reason to be concerened or even know about the underlying details of the system. If you go further and start making changes to your system, or even building more complex systems, over time you will find yourself forming quite firm opinions about various parts of the underlying system, especially if you’ve had experience with other options.

    • DefederateLemmyMl@feddit.nl
      91·
      5 days ago

      As a user, why should I care whether the distro I use uses systemd?

      Um, because as a user you may have to deal with services, or other systemd features?

      Let’s say you want to start ssh-agent when you login to your desktop environment. Well, there’s a systemd service for that that you can enable, and on another distro you’d have to do it another way (autostart script or something).

  • RadioFreeArabia@lemmy.cafeEnglish
    16·
    4 days ago

    ReactOS.

    I have no moral or philosophical objections to the design of Windows NT, just the company that makes it and the enshittification. If ReactOS ever becomes stable enough to be daily used I would use it. For now I use LinuxMint and Steam OS at home.

  • boaratio@lemmy.world
    4914·
    4 days ago

    So the old init.d system was better? Come on people, let’s stop infighting. I have zero preference on init systems. You know why? Because they’re just plumbing. Stop this nonsense. Do I click on an init system? Do I use the init system to check my email? Or play games? No. I know poettering can be controversial, but let’s just move on. Run freebsd if you’re so butt hurt.

    • dblsaiko@discuss.tchncs.de
      221·
      5 days ago

      Yeah, on a desktop I don’t really mind whatever*. On a server however, I think systemd is great and I wouldn’t want to miss it anymore.

      * except Debian’s frankenstein systemd + sysvinit combination. Burn it

    • 10001110101@lemm.eeEnglish
      10·
      5 days ago

      So much more than an init system though, which I think is why people don’t like it. Personally, the only annoyance I have is I preferred log files over journald.

    • msage@programming.dev
      5·
      4 days ago

      So the old init.d system was better?

      because those are our only two options…

      I hate this argument so much, because it’s just a fallacy.

      There are (and have been) more solid init systems.

    • HereIAm@lemmy.world
      252·
      4 days ago

      All I hear about it is that it doesn’t follow the Unix philosophy of a program should do one thing and do it well. And while it does seem quite large and do a lot of things, out of all the times I have broken my system, systemd has never been to blame.

      Edit: deleted duplicate comment.

    • lepinkainen@lemmy.world
      152·
      4 days ago

      It tries to do everything.

      Think of a thing you want to do in Linux and there is a systemd plugin for it. It’s not the unix way

      • DreamButt@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3·
        4 days ago

        General principals are great until you take them to an extreme. There’s always cases where you need to do something a bit different

    • bmrd@lemmy.ml
      1·
      3 days ago

      I personally do not like that systemd gets more and more integrated with other software. For example Gnome. That makes it harder to use that software on non systemd linux, or other OS.

    • Psythik@lemm.ee
      1·
      3 days ago

      This:

      screenshot of SystemD

      IDK why it’s bad, though. My only complaint is that it can take a long time to boot depending on your system, but I don’t think a SystemD issue.

  • Lka1988@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    3117·
    5 days ago

    systemd is fine. The only people I’ve ever heard complain about it are lonely neckbeards pretending like their opinion somehow matters.

    I’ve used Debian as a server system since it was using init.d. And do you know what I found? systemd is easier. And the fact that Debian of all distros decided to use it says a lot.

  • snd (he/him)@discuss.tchncs.de
    11·
    5 days ago

    I have to say as someone who uses NixOS I love systemd, because it makes a lot of things very easy. For example hardening services ( systemd-analyze security) or replacing cron (system timer).

  • misterbzr@lemm.ee
    26·
    5 days ago

    Alpine.

    Have used crux but using low end / old hardware results in almost permanent building software.

    • mynona@lemmy.world
      3·
      5 days ago

      I wonder how far we are from CI drivers ala Nix that fork builds out to idle hardware like a distributed torrent network. As someone with three out of tree modules in use, there must be dozens of us I’d like to think.

      • Illecors@lemmy.cafeEnglish
        2·
        5 days ago

        That is something I’ve already run into at my previous workplace. The name escapes me atm…