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I like systemd
Systemdeez nuts
Most people do
There are places I wouldn’t use it but for most systems it makes things simpler
OOL: what’s the beef with systemd?
I’ll just copy my comment from the other day.
Some people think it handles too many low-level systems. It’s a valid concern because if systemd itself were to become compromised (like Xz Utils was) or a serious bug was introduced, all of the userland processes would be affected. People who are stuck in the 90s and think that the Unix philosophy is still relevant will also point out that it’s a needlessly complex software suite and we should all go back to writing initscripts in bash. The truth is, it’s complex because it needs to solve a complex problem.
Red Hat, the owner of systemd, has also had its fair share of controversies. It’s a company that many distrust.
Ultimately, those whose opinion mattered the most decided that systemd’s benefits outweigh the risks and drawbacks. Debian held a vote to determine the project’s future regarding init systems. Arch Linux replaced initscripts because systemd was simply better, and replicating and maintaining its features (like starting services once their dependencies are running) with initscripts would’ve been unjustifiably complicated.
Who said Wayland was going to be the death? (Excluding canonical) Everyone knew X needed to be replaced and that the transition will be slow until its not.
And systemd is not that bad these days. I do think it’s more complex than it needs to be and startup is a bit slow, but that’s about it.
GNOME making the huge changes inspired the refugees to build Cinnamon and injected some sense into KDE development. Now even GNOME is getting more sensible.
I saw someone giving a talk either about Wayland and they said someone told them they “don’t like Wayland because it violates the Unix philosophy.” (Do one thing and do it well.) The speaker said they responded by asking “What one thing does X do well?”
systemd is not that bad these days
It never was bad, in fact it was better than the alternatives even in it’s beta releases.
I sure as f don’t miss x, but for the fing love of God can I get some access at the shell level to my input devices? The death of Autohotkey is killing me slowly.
It’s the first time I hear systemd or wayland were spelling the death of the linux desktop (not even gonna mention gnome, it’s a choice).
There are controversies around these two, some extremely valid, some a bit over the top, but both do work adequately for the vast majority of common use cases. I’d even argue that systemd (the init process) is better as far as being user friendly. And I say “user”, not “poweruser” nor “sysadmin”. And wayland is an opportunity to clear some long-lasting backward stuff, and even though it is possible to find issue today, for regular (and new) users, it has no bearing on the usability of their system.
As a sysadmin I’ll say systemd is far better. No contest.
It’s the first time I hear systemd […] were spelling the death of […] linux
Where’ve you been? We’ve been expressing concern about its badly-built badly-architected metastatic creep for a decade of dwindling choice and competition as it slowly forced out dissent and clued concern.
Now it’s eaten autofs, DNS, cron, NTPd, and replaced them with shitty clones, and has carefully eroded our ability to recover from this mess.
First, I said “the init process”. The systemd project reinventing the wheel at every occasion is half garbage half “yeah, it’s not horrible, but we’re going to iron it out again for the next decades” level of horror. You won’t have to convince me of that. And don’t get me started on “binary” logs that sometimes takes dozen of seconds to just show up when requested. But the management of services is an overall improvement over scripts stitched together.
I’m well aware of these discussions.
But systemd management, and overall presence, is not something most people would care about. From a user perspective, the system boots, and things works (mostly). To non admin user, running a systemd system or a sysvinit system or whatever is irrelevant.
Yes. But none of that is in the way of “the Linux desktop”. A more unified system with less modules and components (you know, like systemd being a solution to everything) is actually beneficial for wide spread adoption.
People hate systemd for design and philosophy but not because it keeps new people from adopting Linux.
a lot of people actually welcome wayland, systemd is the one they refuse to touch and I’ve seen less backlash against the Gnome/Systemd coupling than I anticipated!
Yeah, wayland good, etc etc.
Now we’re at the point where wayland is becoming the only option, while there are still some things that don’t work well, like showing up a modal, opening a context menu in a window that wasn’t in focus, copy/pasting from non foreground UI applications… All this under KDE, which is somewhat large in terms of good DE.
I understand the argument that if we have to move, we have to start the move at some point. But I’m not sure we have to move. People keep telling X is a messy dangerous unmaintained eldritch horror sucking on your souls every seconds, but as a user, if moving back to X fixes all the tiny weird issues and shows no obvious downside, it’s hard to justify the switch.
It’s impressive how much hatred linux gets, by people who generally try to say it’s insignificant and unnoticeable.
But eh, better them say that it’s going to die, than with Windows where everyone agreed to say that it was dead after 7 and stopped having any expectations.
It’s even more impressive how much hate Linux gets from people that love it
I don’t quite get why massive Gnome changes would imply a death of Desktop Linux. There are so many great alternatives to it. It’s been many years that Gnome has been considered bad by many, and that many have used alternatives. I just think it’s positive that Gnome continue to get worse, because like that more distros may default to better alternatives to begin with.
It was somewhat of a special situation back when Gnome 3 dropped. Ubuntu & flavours of it was still regarded as the go-to distro by many and KDE still had a somewhat damaged reputation due to KDE 3 (even though 4 was already available, however that also had some issues). Many environments we know today didn’t exist yet, so lots of people were rather distraught when Gnome broke with a lot of concepts and dropped what arguably was a horrendous DE.
Many of our current DEs are Gnome 2 or 3 forks (MATE, Cinnamon, Budgie, and back then also Unity), made exactly because of this whole debacle.
In my experience it was KDE 3 that was praised, while 4 was shunned for being too bloated, and trying to be too much like Windows Aero
Yeah, it’s been interesting seeing all the alternatives popping up. I think I’ve met a lot of people who really liked MATE.
I’ve mostly kept using XFCE. But before I had i3 only.
I hated Gnome 3 when it came out, but it got better over the years. If you want to use it as a traditional KDE-style DE, you’re going to fight it and have a bad time. If you use it as intended, and that works for you, it’s good.
Interesting. I think they might have been my problem, I was just trying to use it tradicionally. I wonder how it’s different nowadays.
Kde is not traditional. It looks like disgusting microshit garbage. Same as cinnamon.
I don’t know why people would want to sue desktop environments that like that like garbage product made by billy gats
I never understood it either. I was a user of Gnome until Gnome 3 showed up and I decided to nope out of there. It was a simple process of trying few different DE’s and I have settled on KDE and Cinnamon for when I want that old timey Gnome feeling.
It wasn’t hard to switch at all.
Yeah, really baffling direction. I ended up trying a version on gnome 3 on a Debian distro when I had a new job. It ran very slowly. Super weird. It used to be super smooth.
I can’t ever remember a Gnome 3 install that ran slow for me. But I can always feel a heaviness to Gnome3 that bothers me. It’s like an unseen presence that feels like something is wrong.
Tried KDE in the early days, it was all over the place. Switched to gnome when it was baked. I had been gnome for years. Every update broke and replaced plugins to make it work like I wanted. I’ve had Windows layout since’95, I have to go back and forth a lot, so muscle memory is key.
After fucking with gnome for the 90th time. I tried KDE again, it was just layed out like I wanted. No plugins, no fucking with it. The worst thing I have to do is set dolphin not to open on single click.
I see people here going well if you don’t take it as it comes you’re going to have a bad time. That’s pretty much the least Linux comment I’ve ever read. That’s OSX in a nutshell.
Yeah, KDE was rough in the early days thanks to QT. But things slowly worked themselves out. While I don’t change much with KDE, I do change a few minor things, mostly I make sure the capslock is off and single click to open is on and I got to have that 3D box to switch my desktops. But I do like the power of easy choice KDE offers.
Still I do get nostalgic for the old Gnome2 days. So I have Cinnamon DE installed on a low powered mini desktop. And it runs amazingly well.
I tried Cinnamon out in a live distro It was pretty pleasant. I find Nemo for more enjoyable than Dolphin.
Gnome is awesome
I even liked Unity (so long as the icons weren’t on the side).
I remember the reaction at the time and so many people hated it. I didn’t dislike it, I was getting a bit into it.
All is better than the shit MS is pulling, from mass surveilance on their “business” apps to making an OS with ads included that you have to spent hours to make it useful.
While Linux has many flavors that just works for 80% of the people that dont have super specific use cases.
woah michael jackson is looking kinda goofy these days
and who was saying those things were going to kill the linux desktop? i only ever saw anyone talking about how that stuff would mean the year of the linux desktop
Not only that but also while those changes were mostly received well in the end you can still use a no systemd, x11, MATE distro if you’re genuinely unhappy with them
Linux is made of death. It is The Death.
ayo this the bigger than sign
ok came back im stupid
Death is just a feeling.
Love, too.
A loud part of the community don’t like change or having to learn new things. Well regurgitate negative points from 15 years ago not based on their own exspirences.Have issues with small projects popping up all over due to it being open source. Weird for Linux users I know almost as if you don’t have to use anything you don’t want to in your own system.
What’s with the crackhead? I would think a picture of a zombie (or SOME member of the undead, anyway) would be a better fit.
That’s Michael Jackson from the Thriller music video as a zombie.
Ah, ok. He was a middle-aged elf by the time I ever saw him. Also the lack of necrosis doesn’t exactly scream “zombie”.
Yeah he was supposed to still look good for the ladies…
