It’s like every time there’s a war everybody forgets how fucking long they take. WW2 took six years. The Vietnam War took almost 20 years, same with the Afghanistan War. Anybody expecting anything solid within the next couple years is delusional. Ukraine is in it for the long haul.
That’s not strictly true. On the short end, there was the six-day war. On the long end, there was the hundred years’ war.
Putin was clearly aiming for the short option, but then I suppose most belligerents usually are.
I’d actually love to see a graph that shows the distribution of lengths of various wars
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Dude took the low end and said “fuck that we’ll do it twice as fast.”
The good news is I don’t think Russia can continue to sustain these kind of losses for 199 more years.
Neither can Ukraine…
And Russia expected their little venture to be done in days.
It was never supposed to turn into a real war. They wanted to assassinate Zelenskyy put some Russian plant in as president, annex some more land and call it a night. Obviously Zelenskyy survived and the rest is history.
“No plan survives first contact with the enemy”
“Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth."
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We can hope Putin dies from being an old fuck and Russia gives up
The US is on its last legs though. It badly needed this win. The US falls before Putin dies.
What drugs are you on and where can I get some?
Clearly hasn’t compared the US and Chinese economic data
Lol literally every single line of that post is absolutely nonsense.
The US is on its last legs though.
Lol in what universe? By way metric is the most powerful nation in the world limping along?
It badly needed this win.
If we badly needed a win we wouldn’t be sending 30+ year-old surplus gear. Ukraine would have F-35s instead of the air force trying to pawn off A-10s because we’re retiring them and don’t want to break them down.
The US falls before Putin dies.
Unless he’s a Highlander there’s no fucking chance.
I always take a peek at the comment history when I see things like this. And this guy basically just woke up to say things like this in one specific thread.
I’m no longer a mod of anything these days, but if I had a mod-hammer I’d send you into the next galaxy.
Frontlines were actually moving, especially in the Eastern Front. Not so much in China and the Pacific, though.
That’s because it isn’t really about any particular military objective, it’s about creating business for the war industry.
“We’ll fight til the last Ukrainian!” - libs
“We shouldn’t help the rape victim and they should hope that it’s over quickly. Also, it’s actually not rape, it’s a special sexual operation and they deserved it.” - Tankies
And shelling civilians in the Donbas is presumably the equivalent of putting on a nice dress in your metaphor?
Make extremely inappropriate and wrong rape comparison ⇒ Accuse anyone who disagrees of being a rape apologist ⇒ FUCK TANKIES!
Extremely normal and sound logic there, definitely not just vibe-based emotional manipulation.
Ask Prigozhin whether that shelling actually happened. You swallowed Russian propaganda hook, line, and sinker.
OHCHR estimates that between mid-April 2014 and 31 May 2016, at least 9,404 people, of which up to 2,000 are civilians, have been killed as a result of the conflict. The vast majority of civilian casualties, recorded on the territories controlled by the Government of Ukraine and on those controlled by armed groups, were caused by the indiscriminate shelling of residential areas, in violation of the international humanitarian law principle of distinction.
Na better believe Prigozhin, that guy never told a lie or said anything that was totally wrong.
What do you believe your source to say, exactly? That Ukraine shelled indiscriminately? If so, you should read it again.
Yes it says that exactly, unless you think the “armed groups” shelled themselves.
Funny how if you’re against another endless war you’re a tankie and support Putin…
I’m neither a tankie nor I support Putin. But I also don’t support NATO and the Empire.
But just as a note, most “tankies” don’t support Russia and know Putin is a conservative capitalist. I mean he is the direct result of the dismantling of the USSR by internal revisionists (tsarists and capitalists) and the CIA.
But again, it’s the Iraq war all over again. And you libs are doing THE SAME THING. It’s hilarious.
There’s a load of things I could say, but they would all be pointless, so I’m going to say this. It would be less depressing if you were actually being paid by the Russians.
EDIT: Which, you know, is not actually out of the question.
“Being against war means you are our enemy!” - the “pacifist”, “anti-war”, liberal.
Funny how pacifists are the first to cry when someone hits them.
Let’s not ruin pacifism, self-defense can be a form of it
pacifism /ˈpasɪfɪz(ə)m/ noun the belief that war and violence are unjustifiable and that all disputes should be settled by peaceful means.
How is that funny
*support
There’s a lot of angry liberals replying to your post, so I thought I’d link a great video on how/why the war in Ukraine came to be:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=LL4eNy4FCs8&si=gaMRzFwo5JP5RzeD
This channel is leftist but they aren’t communists, as far as I know.
Tldw: This war was completely avoidable. Had the US/NATO kept its promise to not expand eastward none of this would have happened. Even Biden said that 25 years ago. Americans groomed certain Ukrainians for political office, and prevented others from running. There was an opportunity to end the war last year on somewhat decent terms for Ukraine, but Boris Johnson rushed in to stop it from happening, promising massive support. But war exhaustion has caught up and Ukraine is running out of people, and western leaders are already starting to call for the end of the war — except this time it will be on russias terms and Ukraine is going to get fucked. Big western capitalists have had their fingers in this pie because there’s a lot of money to be made in the country. That’s it.
Anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows that Putins invasion was a horrific, imperialist move. Any commie you see protesting the war isn’t doing it because they support Russia (Russia is a capitalist country), they’re doing it because they don’t support NATO. We are often the makers of our own enemies here in the west. Viet Cong, Taliban, ISIS, and Russia were all created or shaped by western (mainly US) policies.
Judging by the tl;dw that video is hitting bingo on this one.
Thanks I’ll watch it when I’m home from work. Right now it looks like it’s just some guy talking, whereas the video I linked only talks about things that are public knowledge. I haven’t watched yours yet though.
Libs gonna lib man…
The comment threads here are weird. Who, in their right mind, would ever support a country like Russia? It’s mind blowing.
Tankies.
BRICS. Even if they don’t necessarily support Russia it may just be an opportunity to take shots at the West.
Tankies claim to not be supporting Russia but only point out issues with Ukraine and believe every bit of info that comes out of Russia.
It’s a whole subculture. I don’t know, I can think of weirder conspiracy theories with a following.
Hexbear.net is a Russian nationalist instance… They’ve grown up under Putin’s cencorship and state media brainwashing.
Everyone point & laugh at the sad tankie in this thread.
the most intellectually advanced liberal has logged on
HexBear and brigading yet another Ukraine thread with misinformation and Kremlin propaganda, name a more iconic duo.
EDIT: It appears that I’ve triggered the horde.
It’s funny seeing the replies to your comment crying about “not brigading” but then the vast majority of the comments in this post come from hexbear users commenting tankie shit
It’s almost as if they completely lack self-awareness.
Easy way to trigger them:
Ahem…
“Human Rights”
Interesting, I’m not seeing the hexbears… has my instance blocked them or has hexbear blocked me?
It’s kinda a nothing of value lost kinda situation, just curious about why I’m not seeing them any more.
Yea, they’re defederated from your instance. You can check it out in the instances list of each instance under “blocked”, here’s yours: https://lemmy.ca/instances
Ah cool, thanks!
So that means they see my posts but I don’t see theirs?
YepI think they don’t see yours either, but you can still go check out the cacophony in their hexden if morbidly curious: https://hexbear.net/post/475665?scrollToComments=falselol
On second thought, let’s not go to Hexbear, ‘tis a silly place
Well I might be moving instances…
The moron brigadie is getting old.
Thank you for your sacrifice, now we can just mass block them :)
Ah yes, famous Kremlin propaganda as reported by mainstream western media.
Haters gonna hate. Still though, they’ll need to be cordial if some of these critics are also paying Ukrainian bills. Being rude is the fast track to falling out of favor with foriegn taxpayers.
They’re tired and weary from the onslaught of war fringe to safe their country from Putins aggression. Any dig at their progress is a dig at morale that spreads not only through the ranks, but also to the general public. There is a time for constructive criticism, but that should be done in private with actual solutions offered by those criticizing. I understand their needs to be some decorum but you can’t blame them for what I would consider a mild retort as their countrymen die trying to retake their land everyday.
Well said.
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Somewhere in the Pentagon there surely must be a series of rooms isolated for this war. In them intelligence is gathered, counterparts in Ukraine can be in instant contact, resources from both armies are tracked, tactics are formulated, simulations are run. How do I know this? Because this would be too good of a learning opportunity to pass up.
And those folks ain’t talking.
All those folks in the 50+ age group that grew up with “Russia is enemy #1” are probably cycling through waves of intense work and prolonged orgasm.
I wouldn’t be surprised if one of the first things considered in strategizing any armed conflict is whether they want Russia and China to know that we have X or are capable of Y. Russia has shown their hand. If they could do more, they would have by now.
It has also taught NATO that Russia is still in the barbaric tactics mindset. Hospitals, schools, churches, shipping centers - they’re all valid targets. If Russia wants a position, they’ll level the entire town. That certainly changes the plans, of anyone thought they would abode by the Geneva Conventions.
All those folks in the 50+ age group that grew up with “Russia is enemy #1” are probably cycling through waves of intense work and prolonged orgasm.
The ones that haven’t suddenly decided that Russia is our best friend all of a sudden for some reason that I still can’t figure out. This is even considering that Russia was found to have been paying out bounties on dead American soldiers, or that they had people assassinated in the UK. Certainly it should be a disqualifier that Russia isn’t a true Democracy and had Putin’s political opponents jailed. Two Democracies won’t directly start a conflict against each other, but that doesn’t hold up between Democracies and non-Democracies.
My hope is that as Russia runs out of money and organization to fund overseas psyops, the sheen will wear off.
My hope is that as Russia runs out of money and organization to fund overseas psyops, the sheen will wear off.
Same, feels like the democracies of the world really got caught with their pants down by authoritarian operatives and their LLMs on social media.
Putin will only run out of money once the price of oil nosedives.
That won’t happen because Saudi Arabia has been squeezing oil output to keep the price high because they need the money for their countries transformation to a horror Show (different discussion required there) and they basically keep squeezing until the US gives them a whole lot of concessions that they don’t want to…
The ones that haven’t suddenly decided that Russia is our best friend all of a sudden for some reason that I still can’t figure out.
The reason is money. Either they got paid by Putin or they’ve been brainwashed by someone who got paid by Putin.
The Russians have less tactics and capabilities than NATO thought. Now it is a matter of how quickly they can be overwhelmed should it come to it. Their big problem is mid level command.
And what they do have was built and developed by the Soviets.
It has also taught NATO that Russia is still in the barbaric tactics mindset.
Oh those backwards Russians, still stuck in the past, where they were just a bunch of barbarian hordes. I assume the West, by contrast, has developed a civilized kind of warfare, as befitting their superior civilized culture? That’s what you’re saying, right?
The civilized West would never… oh yeah they would and they did, repeatedly, and it was worse actually in e.g. Iraq. So all this “barbarism” shit is just racism with no basis in reality.
Or both sides suck and all war is bad, and no one should attack sovereign countries
Russia is still using barbaric tactics, according to the person I replied to. This implies that barbarism is typical (and backwards) of Russia, like that racist trope about barbaric Mongol hordes. It also implies that someone else (presumably NATO, which they mention) isn’t using barbaric tactics, which is blatantly untrue.
I don’t understand how what you wrote is a addressing my post? What’s your point?
Has Russia been bombing civilian apartment buildings in Ukraine?
Please note, I am asking nothing about NATO or America. I agree, the US has committed atrocities in other countries at war. I’m asking specifically if Russia has bombed civilian apartment buildings in Ukraine.
So it’s not racist to say Russia is still in a barbaric mindset, because they are bombing apartment buildings in Ukraine? Is that it? Even though the way it was phrased implies that barbarism is typical of Russia and its history, and also falsely implies NATO isn’t barbaric and isn’t doing the same thing, and it’s a well-known racist trope?
This person’s comment exhibits the common double standard of the good civilized nations vs. the uncivilized primitives bullshit, which is about the oldest racist narrative there is.
I didn’t say anything about the people. Every Russian person I have met is super nice.
Governments though, they suck. Governments bomb apartment buildings full of people. These particular governments are barbaric.
I think it is important to acknowledge that both the US government and the Russian government are responsible for terrible atrocities. It is not racist to say that.
the whole world is sending people to become veterans so they can return with their experience and become trainers.
IMO these critics are used to air superiority which Ukraine doesn’t have.
Regardless being what it is, I wonder why a few A10s couldn’t be leased to provide air support.
Its a plane with little to no cutting edge technology, perfect for ground support and anti armor and entrenched positions.
I agree and have heard stories of Ukrainians already training on them. But, I wonder if depleted uranium ammo might be a problem.
In the sense that is a controlled ammunition or a banned one?
That brings to mind the fragmentation bombs.
I think there are laws which would prohibit the export of depleted uranium
Yet.
It’ll take some 6 months but then they’ll start having air support and soon air superiority.
However, Ukraine doesn’t have 6 months. They don’t know how the US election will go, it they will still have an ally in the US. They MUST press on so into the meat grinder they go.
US election is more than a year away though.
Yeah and they’ll need every minute of it to get to a point where the cjjan ico Russia out. F16 jets won’t come at.keast for another 6 months, they can’t sit on their hands until then, so until then, the meat grinder it is…
I wish we would just go ahead and give ATACMs. It would certainly speed things up.
I’m following the combat activities (the actual combat, not high level strategic stuff). It’s all mines, mines, mines and then some trench warfare.
No amount of ATACMS can do anything about that. You still have to advance slowly, figure out where the mines are, clean them up or move around them and then take the trenches.
Drones can do a whole lot more good for a whole lot less.
Where do you follow that?
/r/combatfootage on reddit. But you can also do it on twitter by following OSINT accounts (and you can combine the two). I just couldn’t deal with the constant twitter BS anymore. They both mostly have “second hand” sources. First hand are telegram accounts, but I rather receive it filtered and sorted by votes, so I never went that far.
There’s also a few Lemmy communities but they either are completely Ukrainian or have very little post activity compared to Combatfootage.
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Have you ever heard of the word “logistic”?
Bro, can you please talk to me like I’m a normal human being?
BooOOOOoooo
“drones AND f16 and ATACMS”
Yaaay
I think that once the F16 training is completed, it will really change the face of the battle field. I assume we are giving them jdams so they will be capable of striking hundreds of miles into occupied territory.
Aren’t there only a handful of Uke pilots that knew english well enough to do the training? I’m all for sending Ukraine whatever they ask for, but I doubt F-16s will turn the tide
The F-16 will be able to sniff out AA and other ground targets from far away. It will also allow Nato to gift more advanced missiles like JDAM. https://youtu.be/8G7fr3MonQY
So 10 years?
Drink Putin’s bathwater to have 0.1% chance of victory.
Breaching those lines was never going to be quick, but once breached the line will move quicker.
The line doesn’t need to move quicker, and Ukraine moving slowly and shoring up every meter they take is going to work out better long term. They aren’t on a march to invade their lost territory, they are on a march to the Azov sea to cut Russia’s only remaining land access to Crimea.
They are building a wall of men and weapons and once that reaches Azov they only have to defend it - and Ukraine are very good at defence.
Then the only way Russia has to get anything to Crimea is the Kerch bridge which is almost inevitably going to be destroyed.
Depends how deep the lines are. They have breached the first line at some points. However as per ukrainians, after the first line is the second line and so on. Russia knows how to make deep defences and anywhere, where they lose one line, they will adjust and start added more lines to the rear to compensate for the lost line. First line lost, second line is now first line, third line is second and so on and add the new Nth line, since the old Nth is now Nth-1 line.
It will be a slow slug and battering ram fest, unless Russian army morale breaks/ supplies exhaust and they run.
I saw a WSJ article yesterday saying they’ve been the final defense line
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Not the correct response to say to those who hold the purse strings to your war chest. Especially one particular country whose political tide can turn and drown you.
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Whoa! What news!
What a coincidence, “shut up” is what I tell people who can’t stop talking about Ukraine and Russia.
Why?
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