- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
KEY POINTS
New European car registrations of Tesla vehicles totaled 8,837 in July, down 40% year-on-year, according to the European Automobile Manufacturers Association, or ACEA.
BYD recorded 13,503 new registrations in July, up 225% annually.
Elon Musk’s automaker faces a number of challenges in Europe, including intense ongoing competition and reputational damage to the brand.
That’s what he gets for being a lying idiot nazi prick.
Tesla also makes inferior cars. Tesla also has a big unneeded tv in the car. Tesla car is a kind of an early access with their bugfix patching. Teslas’ main product is also your data.
Tesla cars were a very good prospect until pretty much this year. Most people are fine with everything being on a big dumb screen instead of having proper buttons (even though it’s a usability and safety nightmare) and once you get past that, they’re comfortable and practical - and well-priced compared to the non-Chinese competition.
But now, Elon outed himself as an actual Nazi, and took away proper indicators and gear selectors.
now everyones reporting issues with the regular cars to, that they dint do it for years?
What do you mean?
Comfortable is subjective. Model Y suspension was certainly crashy when I rented one for half an hour for the lulz
Tesla also has a big unneeded tv in the car
I used to think the same, before I bought a (non-Tesla) EV myself. It’s very convenient to have some entertainment other than your phone during charging stops.
The problem is actuarial data that shows Teslas have more frontal collisions which is because of the screen which is on track to being banned in EU. The second problem is the brittle cast aluminum frame shit out of Giga presses that makes most collisions a right off. Hence very high insurance costs on the Teslur.
musk, eliminated QC, because it was preventing him from selling them quickly, and its too expensive to add in quality materials.
it is one of the reasons he doesnt use LIDAR in the newer models? waymo is already way ahead of tesla robotaxis, eventhough its still limited right now, musk was too late to the game. although he couldve used this to slow down the pump and dump scheme thats going on.
You can have a big screen in your car and physical buttons to control things, also anyone can carry a tablet in their car for entertainment as well
Also, the big screen is very well designed in a Tesla. It’s difficult to move to inferior UX models like pretty much every other car is after experiencing it. I’ve practically never used it for “entertainment”.
Tesla also has a big unneeded tv in the car.
Ehh, have you ever seen a BYD? All their models are essentially “Tesla but more obnoxious”.
I did not. Not the cockpit. I’m sure it’s bad as well. For me any touch control in the car is bad news.
And with a virtual assistant.
Not even that …
BYDs are better and cheaper than pretty much any other EV. That’s why Americans can’t buy them.
And why Americans can’t afford used cars.
https://www.financefling.com/how-much-would-a-byd-car-cost-in-the-usa-in-2025/
Even after current tariffs, it’s cheaper than everything else.
The vast amount of Americans are suffering so a handful of wealthy ones can get even wealthier.
I’ve read a number of European reviews of the byd dolphin and most I’ve seen have compared it unfavorably to European EVs
The problem with auto reviews is that they are all advertising. They never mention reliability as a concern. Australia killed off local GM and Ford production and they brought in Chinese EVs two years ago. Consensus already is that they don’t last.
Looks like the average Euro EV is ~44k and the dolphin comes in under 30k, under 25k in UK…
It definitely doesn’t have all the bells and whistles, but it’s a shit ton cheaper.
The people writing reviews for brand new cars have a target demographic: people that routinely buy new cars.
The majority of people won’t have the same priorities, especially these days.
EU has a dozen EVs under 25,000. Average car costs are misleading, the mean is a more important number.
They usually compare it to cars of a similar size, instead of similar price. and yeah, when you’re buying a car of the same size that’s 5k cheaper, you’re getting less car.
BYD’s biggest advantage is the government subsidies it gets from China. In the EU, they get tariffed to protect local automotive companies from unfair competition (I.e nation-state supported automotive companies that can literally sell their cars at a loss). Thus, BYD loses its appeal.
Better how? Because Australians disagree.
Canada here. Most of the middle-class can’t afford new cars either. Trucks are big like RV’s now and it’s almost like buying a house.
Elon is a BYD marketing asset
I kinda wish Elon was a Chinese agent and Trump was really a Russian agent. It would make more sense at least.
But instead we have two people making the exact same decisions that a state agent would do to sabotage the US and it’s industries but it’s all because of their absolute incompetence instead. Which is far less exciting and far more pathetic.
I kinda wish Elon was a Chinese agent and Trump was really a Russian agent.
Instead of them both being Saudi agents? JK these guys have many owners.
So you’re saying Trumps decisions are exactly the ones of a saboteur, but you don’t believe he is one, because he is incompetent?
How “competent” do you have to be to be able to do, what someone tells you to do?
Occam’s razor is pretty applicable here.
I haven’t bought anything from a USA company since Trump being his second term. I canceled Amazon prime. I sought out UK and EU suppliers for all my products and services. Installed Linux (German based distro, sorry fedora) closed my social media apart from lemmy and migrated my emails to an EU service. Oh and bought a Chinese made electric Dacia. You can do it, it wasn’t even hard.
It is an incredible self-own for the USA that won’t really be felt for a few years at least. To abandon research and future markets tech like electric vehicles and green energy, and to abandon them at the exact time China goes all in on it? Are they trying to put themselves in a position of irrelevance? Because that’s exactly what I’d do if that’s what I wanted.
I guess they really are. Much of the decisions are based on what TikTok tells people to think. Facebook allows for Russian influence, TikTok is steered from Beijing.
The idea of “USA shouldn’t make electric cars” dies come from China, and exists precisely in order to put USA into disadvantage.
Yes. Trump is Putin’s puppet and does anything he says.
Hey, gotta focus on fascism first
Are you based in the US? I’m curious how much the import taxes were on the EV
I’m in the UK
I mean
have you met the Chinese president for life? Feels like a really weird line you’ve drawn between acceptable and not acceptable.
Maybe, but it does feel as someone in the UK that Trump seems more like a new, clear and present danger to our way of life than the Chinese.
To the uninformed sure.
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I shall. If the USA continues to threaten Canadian sovereignty, I will refuse to trade with them.
When Trump (may his anus be infested with cancerous hemorrhoids) dies, I will pop open a patriotic bottle of Crown Royal and listen to the wails of his cult with delight.
if you had any real patriotism, you would not be this complaisant as your country is flushed down the toilet
damn, you really misunderstand what patriotism is don’t you
Patriotism…
Username is Ernstrommel.
Are you wearing your kampfbinde right now?
The word you are looking for is nationalism. Völkisch is the flavor you are probably after.
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What a response. I’m impressed. Are you self aware at all? Is this just ragebait? Go back to 4chan anon.
Edit: He made it 2 days… Poor guy. I hope he wakes up to reality before it’s too late.
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I will buy neither.
BYD is selling a lot because is subsidized heavily by the chinese government to disrupt european brands, and this despite having a 35% tariff on top for not disclosing this to the EU.
BYD is hiding $44B in debt. Chinese EV industry is eating itself and is the next Evergrande. They are losing money on every sale.
This is how modern “competition” works in every industry. China is just following the standard model of taking losses in order to monopolize the market. Why do you think so many companies in the US (Uber being the most obvious one) are just taking losses for years and years?
I feel like people don’t understand modern economics and the complete lack of competition. So when our media says “China is bad. Look at them cheating!” people believe it.
China isn’t cheating or “going to crumble because of this” like all the YouTube click bait videos say. This is literally just how the global markets work.
Is it good? Fuck no. But it’s not unique to China at all. And their 5 year planned economic systems are much more prepared for a global collapse than ours are. At least in meeting the material needs of its citizens. The US has all but gutted any of its social safetynets for when this all goes to hell.
And companies like Uber, Amazon etc. are heavily disliked by a lot of people because of it. This tactic forces smaller companies into bankruptcy and is bad for the consumer in the long run.
So yeah, it is absolutely not good either if China props up their whole EV industry to establish a monopoly. I hope governments around the world are pushing back as much as possible to keep their local car manufacturers alive, their economies will profit from it.
Not supporting this doesn’t mean that you don’t understand modern economics, on the contrary I would argue.
I guess you didn’t read my last paragraph. My comment wasn’t about defending China. My comment was about critizing the “China bad” that comes from people that don’t understand the economics and just listen to the xenophobic media narratives.
All countries our guilty of these types of things. China is just winning at it and the west is pretending it’s not losing.
BYD is being sued for slave like conditions in Brazil.
You think they’ll do that in Brazil and not China?
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3v5n7w55kpo
Everyone is like YAY BYD BAD TESLA, but buying a BYD is gonna be worse overall. If you want to buy something other than Tesla, don’t buy a fucking BYD. Find a non Chinese brand, there are plenty of them now.
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I’m hearing that I should buy one now before they put their prices up
Every country subsidizes it’s major industries like that. Also, this is public knowledge. China isn’t secretly hiding their state ownership and subsidies.
Nobody subsidizes on the same scale as what China is doing. Nobody operates entire market sectors at a loss for strategic advantage. The reason why China is doing this is because they’re comfortably in the lead among world powers and can afford to lose a bit, and also: everything is a weapon in their eyes, and they’re determined to use their weapons on everyone else.
EDIT: Although I do admit the Oil Industry is pretty equally cutthroat, Saudis weaponize crude and Russia weaponizes Natural Gas.
Upon hearing the news, the market sent TSLA up 490%, now Elon is a trillionaire
The stock is actually up 10% this month. The stock market is a shell game on full display at this point.
I’ve come to the conclusion that the stock market is just a representation of wealth inequality and oligarch theft than it is of the economy or any companies value.
TSLA is not the stock market. It’s a cult. The valuation of that company follows no rules of Commerce.
The stock market is a cult. Company valuations have detached from any sense of use-value reality - most of the stock markets’values is derived from how much money a stock might make and not what value a company provides to society. Valuations don’t even mirror how much revenue potential companies have, but make it up based on future revenue potential, which can be easily manipulated to simply create wealth. It’s been this way for a long time, but the extent of the situation has lost nearly any attachment to reality.
60% of their business used to be racists. Now its 100%
Who are the losers that still buy a Tesla in Europe?
Hopefully the people who will buy my car whenever a better car than Tesla appears. No luck so far on the latter.
What specifically is Tesla doing better than the other choices?
Simplicity, TCO, performance. Also the boot size and back seat space of the Model Y are pretty great.
Performance as in speed and torque or MPG?
My Merc will give me 88mpg. I could buy an AMG which will shit on your performance.
lmao fucking what? There are so many better cars than Tesla
Did he really think Europe would like his Elon Hitler salute?
That’s only a part of the reason. Europe now has 12 models of EVs at €25,000 that by every measure, are better.
Which ones? I know about Dacia, but most others I’ve heard of start at 30k
I tried to drive a model 3 and it was infuriating to have everything on touch including turn indicators, windshield wipers and especially the gear selector.
Then a huge screen that can’t be used with your phone so you’re still forced to use a phone holder like a decade ago.
For me a car without carplay/android auto loses $5000 in value, and “touchscreen everything” removes another $5000 in value. I could only accept those compromises in a $20k car if new, $10k if used
Wait what?? I knew they overused terrible touch screen controls… But you can’t even connect your phone properly?
A lot of engineers are obsessed with touchscreen everything because sci-fi from the 70s to 90s was obsessed with that shit, so they became obsessed with it.
It’s a cost thing. It’s cheaper to get a shitty commodity touch screen from Alibaba and slap it in a cheap bezel, hook it up to a potato, and then just outsource the design and functionality to the code team in India. It’s more expensive to actually do the industrial design to fit physical buttons and dials and source all the components required for the same. Engineers are obsessed with screens because their bosses are obsessed with cost.
It’s the consumers, not the engineers, who go all starry-eyed and get so easily wowed over a crappy $12 touch panel with shit for pixel density and fuck-all for viewing angles, because they’re the ones who have been bamboozled into believing this is all “futuristic.” Most people aren’t tech savvy enough to realize they’re being sold cheap bullshit at a premium.
My understanding is that they also aim that way to reduce moving parts - since knobs, buttons, and switches are more likely to fail after 5000 uses. That, and they can update touchscreens to do whatever they want differently, like serve up ads.
5000 uses? Thats how often I click the left mouse button per day ar least. Most buttons are rated for millions of clicks.
My oldest car ever was from 1992. I bought it in 2015 and sold it in I think 2018 or 2019 or something. I do not remember there being a single failed button. There were a few knobs that had been literally torn off by someone. But not failed buttons.
What does “properly” mean in this context? In my experience, every android auto -supporting car is way worse than Tesla.
Well the way he framed it. As in you still need your phone in an holder. I figured you can’t properly control your music from Tesla. Can’t easily make calls, Bad support for other apps. I’ve never really experienced a Tesla properly, and I would way too ashamed to do so nowadays. So I don’t really know the experience very well.
You don’t need your phone anywhere, it’s just not Android auto. You can make phone calls through your phone via voice, it can play music from your phone, but there’s limited controls there to control the phone, or you can just use any of their built in music apps with full voice and touch screen controls. I think you can even do voice to text messages or have text messages read to you, but I’m not 100% sure on that one. There’s something about text messages though. You can share a map location from your phone directly to the car.
I mean, infotainment is the one thing where they’re not TOO bad. I think you can just get native apps for Spotify and Apple Music. No Waze though.
The phone connects over Bluetooth. The car itself runs apps for some services, so you log in on the car for those apps to run them natively. If you personally don’t use any of the services/apps it supports though, you’re stuck with Bluetooth only. Full forward/back/skip/ etc supported but it’s not android auto. I think all the models come with the built in phone charging cradle spot under the touch screen.
and people were still trying to buy this car, most cars has the bluetooth feature where it connects to the computer, tesla dint have that?
Of course it does. You should take everything said here about Tesla with a lot of salt. People hate them enough to lie about it.
It connects to your phone in the sense that you can:
- Make phone calls
- Receive and send texts (no Whatsapp/signal/telegram or any other kind of app based messaging)
- Listen to audio, if you manually start the playback on the phone
- Use your phone hotspot to stream from the built-in Spotify or other streaming services, if you don’t want to pay a $120/year subscription
But it can’t do basic mirroring like most cars on the market can do.
In this way, if you want to have traffic info or speed camera alerts, you’re forced to pay for Tesla premium subscription, as there’s no other way to show a third party navigation app on the big screen (except ugly hacks like using the web browser for navigation, which is a safety hazard)
At $10 or less a month, (It’s $99 for a year, $9.99 for a month) it’s cheaper than using a gig of data on many non-unlimited plans. It’s at least a better deal than the price-equivalent GM OnStar plan for example.
For Tesla, I believe the only feature locked behind the subscription (won’t work unless subscribed, even with a separate hotspot) other than live traffic is the Tesla-app based bandwidth-intensive stuff like viewing the sentry cameras remotely, but I don’t have a definitive list.
I think the nav will take traffic into account when navigating, even if you don’t subscribe, but it won’t show you traffic. I’m not sure on that though, it may have been true a while ago and changed.
In my country I get 150 gb of 5G data for 5.99 a month, so the Tesla premium connectivity subscription is not worth at all
I already pay for almost unlimited data, and I have a 8 core with 16gb of RAM in my pocket, with all my information on it: the best option is to just mirror my device and let me use my preferred navigation system or use alternative music apps like Tempo.
It’s inefficient to have a Ryzen class computer in the car just because otherwise the mothership can’t monetize the infotainment
I just wanted to point out that it’s not insane, like some of GM’s OnStar plans for example, the cheapest of which is 9.99 a month.
Should cars have subscriptions? Fuck no, but I was only trying to post facts, not opinions, in that comment.
Yes your point is valid, only the remote cameras part is cheaper than what Google asks for the nest cameras… And in that case it’s using your home WiFi
Good. May they fall another 40% in 2026. Fuck that company.
Gee do you need to be a wizard to figure out aligning yourself with idiot right wingers wasn’t a good business decision when your entire business appeal is about being a good person and saving the planet
Saving the planet by selling cars that cost >1.5 median yearly income, pretax was always a joke.
its expensive for an such average ev car.
The article mentions the reputational damage with a half-sentence, but we all know the main reason no one wants to buy a swasticar is. Europeans have quite the attention span, and as long as Elon is associated with Tesla - which is pretty forever - their brand is poison. Not very truthful journalism, this is.
Not sure if Chinese EVs are improvement…
Over Tesla I’d say they are.
BYD are not the best, but they are comfortable and cheap and charge fast.
MG has probably the cheapest BEV that is actually a decent car with good range.
Xpeng has insanely well equipped luxury cars, BMW luxury at VW prices.
Nio has the battery swap that is insanely fast, a battery swap is faster then even BYD 1 GW charging.There are so many more options, and all of them beat Tesla in some way or other.
If you want a better Tesla than a Tesla, you can get a VW instead of model 3 and model Y, or BMW or Mercedes instead of model S.And none of the above cars will nearly as likely kill you as a Tesla might.
are we just ignoring the glaring fact that these are rolling internet connected computers with cameras and who the heck knows how many other sensors, inside and outside?
I wouldn’t want such a “car” from a European company even. but I guess ignorance is bliss, and we have nothing to hide.
That is all new cars, regardless of propulsion method or manufacturer. Your data will be sold, traded, aggregated, deanonymized and sold again as long as world goverments don’t put a stop to the current surveillance economy.
Unless it has escaped your attention, USA is not an ally of EU anymore except on paper. USA vs China is about the same to us now.
Traditionally EU has allowed USA a lot of leeway to spy on us through their technologies, under the assumption that USA was an ally, but it’s actually USA we are trying to prevent from continuing that spying we know for sure they do.
We do not have evidence of similar Chinese spying.So there you go, it’s OK you don’t want either Chinese or European cars as an American, but to be honest, the American cars have already been documented to spy on Americans, passing data on to American authorities, which for instance resulted in the destruction of a Waymo car at a demonstration.
So for Americans everything OTHER than an American car might actually be preferable in that regard!!!So as I see it, you are the one who is naive and ignorant.
They may all spy, but the only ones we know do it for sure are the Americans, and then the question is who is the biggest threat, and right now that too is the US government, that shows a complete disregard for both law, human rights and humanitarian issues and allies and agreements and democracy.Unless it has escaped your attention, USA is not an ally of EU a
it has not escaped my attention, both are equally bad.
Traditionally EU has allowed USA a lot of leeway to spy on us through their technologies, under the assumption that USA was an ally,
and now they’ll keep allowing it for the chinese out of fear that it would significantly worsen chinese relations.
We do not have evidence of similar Chinese spying.
how, don’t those have a cellular connection too?
in this article the byd boss doubles down on this by saying they use google cloud services to store and process the information… now, do you think that somehow that protect us from the usa?
then its another thing what type of data they collect. facebook does most of its business in a GDPR compliant way, and that means nothing as users just sign away their consent for all kinds of data to be collected, otherwise they can’t use the service.
Unfortunately, the mozilla privacy not included team did not review byd, but maybe you are not surprised that I doubt they are better than any of the European brands.
as an American,
I’m not an american. I live in the EU, and I think this is the least bad place when looking at digital rights.
that however does not make me trust volkswagen, renault, or whoever other EU car companies either for nearly the same reasons as chinese car companies.
we could say I’m allergic to any car that can be remote controlled and interrogated over a network.for instance, this is how renaults fare: https://www.mozillafoundation.org/en/privacynotincluded/renault/
They do, like the rest of the car brands, collect a lot of personal information about you like your name, address, and your vehicle’s VIN number. They also collect data about your driving and what you do in your car: When you accelerate, pump the brakes, or use multimedia. They also record all your interactions and conversations with them. Again, for car companies, this level of data collection seems pretty standard.
So for example, Renault collects “Data related to your personal and/or professional situation (family situation, socio-professional category, etc.)”
how do they even get access about any of these two?? if we are fortunate, only by a question on the registration form or shortly after registration.
More on those commitments, Renault sometimes shares your personal information in ways that don’t seem totally necessary, or in their words, for “explicit, legitimate and determined purposes.” For example, they say then can share it with “[a]ny associated or connected motor manufacturer from whom we purchase or hire goods (and their group companies)” and “partners.” It’s also not clear to us whether they will only share your personal data with law enforcement when they are legally obligated to, according to the language they use in their UK Privacy Notice.
It’s not looking amazing for one of the “good ones,” we know. Yet we still have one last beef (or should we say beouf?) with Renault. They’re part of a strategic alliance with privacy-monster Nissan, one of the worst car companies we reviewed a privacy. What does that mean exactly for the fate of your personal data? Well, probably not much thanks to the strong legal protections in place. Still, given these companies’ cozy relationship, we’ll take it as a cautionary tale for what Renault might do if they could.
and then remember what they said about data sharing with partners: “[a]ny associated or connected motor manufacturer from whom we purchase or hire goods (and their group companies)” and “partners.”
their conclusion? that it’s standard levels. and that even in the EU, they are among the better ones! but that does not make it acceptable.
and you could say that “but you can just remove the entertainment system’s fuse!”, and that would be right. kind of.
until the car gets to the service, where even the diagnostic tool that uses always online DRM will be able to transfer whatever information it just wants, or if I sell the car, the next owner replaces the fuse and all the recorded information gets uploaded.with byd, it also does not happen to help in ignoring chinese spying that my government leans to china (besides russia), they are installating face recognition capable chinese camera systems against EU law, and installing huawei network equipment for important infrastructure left and right.
I’m not an american. I live in the EU, and I think this is the least bad place when looking at digital rights.
Why then do you call Europe “they” instead of we? “and now they’ll keep allowing it for the chinese”
If you think car cameras are used for surveillance, it’s not just electric cars, but is in ALL new cars from all countries.
So what was the point really of you previous comment???Why then do you call Europe “they” instead of we?
Because in my mind it’s not a social decision but a political decision, and politicians are “they”.
If you think car cameras are used for surveillance, it’s not just electric cars, but is in ALL new cars from all countries.
I did not intend to limit my criticism to electric cars.
Ok but one way to make an EV charge faster and cost less is to put in a smaller battery.
A small battery charges relatively slower, think of the small battery as only 1 element, and the larger battery consisting of 2 elements charging in parallel.
The best the small battery can ever achieve is to charge equally fast to 100%, but 100% is only half the power. But the big battery can charge the same amount of power in half the time.
And their cars are not all roadworthy here in Europe.
Is there some specific road conditions that they’re not built for or is it just the fact that they generally suck
They have safety issues, and with the cybertruck is so much wrong, you can’t even fix it to make it roadworthy in Europe. Apart from the fact that you would need a commercial trucking license to drive it.
Liquidate Musk
sopanify him, all that fat can make soap, probably use a degreaser on him.