Privacy concerns are a very popular and valid talking point on Lemmy, so I would like to gather your thoughts and opinions on this. (Apologies if it’s already been discussed!)
Would you support this? Would it work or even be viable? (If it could somehow overcome the rabid resistance from these big companies). What are your thoughts?
Personally, I’m getting more and more agitated at the state of this late stage global capitalism, where companies have the gall to ask you to pay or subscribe to their products, while they already make money from you for selling your data. It’s been an issue for a long time now, but seems to really be ramping up.
Companies who obtain and sell your user information should be put out of business and have their executives and board go to prison for thousands or millions of counts of stalking.
But you generally literally say “yes, I permit you to use and sell my information”
In instances where that isn’t the case, I agree with you, it’s stalking.
It’s far more nuanced than that. What if the company tells you they are collecting and selling your data and even give you a way to opt out, but it’s on page 28 of the Terms and Conditions.
It should be law that companies must have a clear and transparent way to communicate data collection and what they do with said data
In EU this law is called GDPR. And it exists.
Well, this country would be a better place if we were able to adopt a lot of the sensibilities and common sense laws that the EU has. Unfortunately, we’re a plutocracy run by corporations for profit and consistently backed by an ignorant and easily susceptible generation of baby boomers that time and time again vote against their own interests.
Do people here responding with “It’s a free service!” not realize paid services sell your data just as much? The ISP you’re using to read this is selling your data.
And the T&C terms are not anywhere near informed consent. They’re just permission to do anything they want with your data. Quit acting like consumer protection laws aren’t needed as long as someone clicked “I agree” to use a service required for modern life. We all know you can click “Cancel” and go live in the forest. We’d rather a third option besides exploitation and going feral.
Also, quit licking boot. You’re killing the jobs of PR people when you shill for corporations for free.
just take a look at T&Cs and privacy disclaimers for auto manufacturers. Mozilla did an analysis and found all of them just stink. Imagine paying $30K for a brand new car, only to get your information sold by the dealership to shady warranty companies. The auto manufacturer selling out your data in perpetuity and listening to everything. Oh and one auto manufacturer is making claims on your sexual activity LOL
Welcome to the unregulated market of big data in the USA
Man, NordVPN sells your data to Google, among others!
This is why we can’t have good things anymore.
People also say “well did you pay them anything??” to excuse when an ad/data supported business abuses a member. Take Facebook, for instance. I don’t care if we’re “the product” or customers… one way or the other, they make money from people using the site.
I’m pretty sure ISPs don’t do this in the EU. Or, if they do, then they are in for a big hurt.
Not just in the initial sale, but for every time my data is used.
I don’t care about royalties. They should pay a gigantic tax for selling it tho
And I should get to set the price since it’s my data in the first place.
yeah honestly the fraction of a cent I’d get negotiated wouldn’t make a dent in my life. I’d much rather we as a collective hold companies accountable for selling off our data. Politicians too; they’re all trying squeeze us for everything they can, and we consent by being apathetic.
Generally, I personally, disagree. Usually companies do not get your data from the air, they provide people service and often for free in exchange. This is a model which made internet available for masses.
What I agree with - a transparency and control, more or less like GDPR suggests (not like it is usually implemented, though).
regulations like transparency and user control only work when the ones with the data actually follow the laws.
Everything works only when involved parties (all, not just with the data)follow the laws.
Agreed, if there’s a clear benefit to harvesting my data, like I don’t have to pay for the service then that’s fine. There should be clarity on what data is collected and how it’s used so I can decide if the benefits justify the cost.
That’s a good point, they shouldn’t just be allowed to say “we’re improving our product with ur info lol” and call it a day. How? Like our tax money in my country, I heard the Aussies get a breakdown of where the money is going. Where’s my breakdown? Where’s the breakdown for the techno spying? Lack of info seems to be the business model with both of these systems, lol.
There’s a chain of reporting issue. Generally, the site you’re on (outside the social media shitholes) will keep track of some identifier of who you are, and which sites you visited. Then they will share your identifier with an advertising partner to deliver you advertisements. The advertising partner will take your data and pass it off to a data management platform (Hi Oracle!) who will then attempt to link you on that site to literally everything you have ever done. They have deals with Credit card companies, TV vendors, car manufacturers, cell service providers, public databases. That’s where the sketchiness happens. The worst part of it all is that realistically, the advertisers don’t care about all that data. They almost always want some very basic demographic data that fits in the old Nielsen family demographic data: It doesn’t make any sense to advertise a Lexus or investment advice to someone making minimum wage. Politicians want to know who likely voters are. Macy’s wants to advertise at people who shop at malls. They also want “Lives within 50 miles of my business”
The biggest worry is that the data platforms collect a lot of exact data that is not used except for super suspect Cambridge Analytica level targeted political advertising, and to add to it: They are reallllllly crappy at their jobs. I work in AdTech, so I can poke around at what they think I am and I’ve had things from “Salad Dressing lover” to being both unemployed and making $1 million/year in the same profile.
There are plenty of instances of companies collecting your data either without you knowing or without you knowing you can opt out of collection. There needs to be a set standard provided and adhered to in regards to collecting personal data.
Agree. And the actual attempt is called GDPR and CCo.
However, one can put in other direction as well: similar “standards” and laws against people who try to use a service without paying for it neither watching ad nor paying money.
I’d prefer it if they simply weren’t allowed to collect it in the first place.
And I don’t think it would be viable, because no fucking way am I giving these parasites any banking information so they could pay me a pittance of what they get. They’d fucking sell that too!
It should be a requirement that you can see your own profile at any time, see everything they know about you, be able to edit it (including clearing it, and not with a billion checkboxes either), and lock it to prevent further modification and addition by themselves.
Well, partial good news for you, friend! (Assuming you’re in the US)
California’s new CPRA law went into effect at the start of the year. As part of that law, CA residents can request to see their data, be deleted or edit it. Since it’s hard to validate whether someone is actually a resident or not, most places just allow everyone to do those things now.
But there are some big caveats. One is that getting access to your data can be complicated. There’s a risk of, e.g. an evil-ex requesting your info in order to stalk you, so some places will just confirm or deny the info you send. “Do you have my name? How about this email address?”, etc, but you can’t say "Gimme everything for ".
You can ask for all your personal data to be deleted. But the law says to delete everything… Which includes the fact that you made such a request, so the next time data about you arrives, the company has no record to indicate they should not collect it.
It’s a start.
If you use a company’s service without agreeing to pay them with money, you likely agreed to share your information with no strings attached. Problem there being once that’s done, your information is liable to be resold ad infinitum with no legal protection for you. What should happen is legislation that federally declares that agreement null and void, and put in its place nationwide law that dictates what companies and citizens can and can’t do with intellectual property as it pertains to someone’s personal information.
Yes
I wonder what the side effects of this would be… There would suddenly be incentive for people to shape their lives in ways that would make them more attractive to advertisers, at least on paper.
I wonder if we would see improvementw to society at a macro level if people start making changes to be the types that are paid more for their data.
Disagree. Privacy should be the default.
Collecting information should be legal only in so far as it supports the customer’s use of a product/service. E.g. It’s nice if my doctor can keep a medical history on file, or my mechanic can do the same for my car.
Selling/disclosing information to third parties should be illegal.
How much do you think your data is actually worth? Let’s take Google for example, their ad revenue in 2022 was ~$224B and they have 4.3B monthly active users. That’s only $52 per user, but if you take into account their operating expenses of $208B that drops down to $3.7 per user.
But that’s not all, they don’t make their revenue by “selling your data”, that’s a common misconception. They make revenue by selling targeted advertisements on their systems, and targeted advertising is only useful if you actually click the ads and purchase the products.
Now the correlation between your interests might be useful in aggregate, but for a single person this correlation data rounds down to a big fat zero, and since Lemmy users pride themselves in ad blockers and avoiding online advertisements I’m going to say that the value you personally add to Google’s revenue is a big fat zero.
So should Google cut you a check for ~$0 per year? Honestly this conversation is a waste of time.
Agree
It depends, at the very least there should be more transparency about what is being shared with who. But what do you do in situations where they’re providing some sort of “free” service, like Gmail or something? I feel like there’s some sort if trade-off happening there, but we should be fully informed about what is that’s being given about us.
Y’know, if I could use gmail and pay a few bucks to do it (and not be tracked everywhere without a way to opt out) I would do it. Likewise for any social media that makes its money by trading my privacy for it, I would pay them for the service of being a conduit by which I can keep track of friends and family if it meant I wouldn’t be followed everywhere by ads. As for how ad revenue funds so much of the useful content online, it’s depressing as hell to see that political propaganda is free while informative media is sequestered behind paywalls. I’m old enough to remember when the news was a prestige business and didn’t have to turn a profit
The fact that platforms like Meta give advertisers (or propagandists) the ability to target their messaging to people that fit a detailed profile, tho, ensures that our politics can now be cheaply and profitably flooded with shit, and that in real ways is a threat to democracy, I think.
You know that there are paid email services that aren’t Gmail, right?
Proton isn’t a bad choice for this. They have paid and free tiers which can get you Google-like features without giving your data to an advertising company.
Titan-mail/flockmail is good for people wanting a business email not run by big G or MS.
Absolutely. I think the difficulties in ensuring the data owner gets paid properly highlight the fact that gathering this data needs to be approved by the data owner and can’t just be done willy nilly. Data is a valuable resource, although in the most part intangible. It’s this intangibility that has given data hearders the impression its up for grabs. The whole system needs strick rules to protect people’s data wealth and not to mention privacy.
