Are all ya dumb fucks who refused to vote for Kamala happy?
Ya happy all your trans friends are about to be sent to concentration camps so you could virtue signal your pathetic hollow support for Palestine (that’s actively doing far worse under Trump than under Biden BTW)?
Hope all the death and destruction partially on your hands was worth you feeling like a special little hero for a few hours last November.
I will always understand having grievances for the democratic party because all they do is defend the status quo - I do too - but not voting over that is just fucking stupid. You want to change that? Go to protests, vote in primaries, support local initiatives for ranked choice voting, donate to causes you find actually beneficial, support local politicians that dont just support the status quo, support movements you believe in. If its about Gaza, speak up about that, donate to humanitarian funds, etc. There are ao many things you can do that can impact these things. But refusing to vote does actually fucking nothing for that cause.
There is no world in which more people refusing to vote for Kamala would have gotten us a better president or stopped genocide in gaza. Or really had any impact in any way that wasn’t making trump more likely to win. IMO the folks that did that were doing it more for themselves so they could feel morally superior because they didnt vote for the candidate that supported genocide or the “status quo” even though it literally never would have had any impact on either of those things.
(And let’s be real - trump is way worse for Gaza than Kamala would have been. I’m sure she wouldn’t have done enough, just like Biden, but at least there are voices in that party calling out Israel. Those voices fall far more deaf on this administration’s ears)
Yep, I could not agree more. Seeing the smug and the self-righteous still proudly argle-bargling about Gaza is infuriating, if you ask me. I don’t know how many genuinely feel this way when it’s online - many could just be paid Russian stooges or bots, for all I know.
But I do know a few IRL and when it comes up, it’s hard to keep my cool. It’d be one thing if they didn’t act so goddamned morally superior about it all. I’ve noticed that all of the ones I know of IRL are not in at-risk groups, other than a few cases being women and some being not active xtians (but raised xtian), if that counts. But all of them are white, all of them are at least middle class, none are gay/trans…probably most have the means to get the fuck out of this country if they really had to, etc.
Trans person here, Harris sucked as a candidate. Her refusal to take any sort of stance against an ongoing genocide isn’t the sole reason for her loss but it was certainly a pretty big factor, alongside all of the other positions she didn’t meaningfully differentiate herself from Biden on in an attempt to win over non-existent moderate republicans. I don’t blame a single person for refusing to vote for her, no one’s vote belongs to a party. Being upset at the people who wanted at least one of the candidates running for president to not be actively supporting a genocide, instead of at those politicians, who were actively supporting a fucking genocide, seems at best misguided.
(Also, of the anarchist/leftist groups and spaces I’ve visited or been a part of irl, a pretty significant number of the people there have been queer or trans or in some other marginalized group.)
It’d be one thing if they didn’t act so goddamned morally superior about it all.
People who oppose genocide are morally superior to those who support it. I can imagine that people who want to support genocide while still wanting to pretend they’re good people would like that to not be the case.
Democratic primaries do have issues, yeah, particularly in the presidential race. But I wouldn’t say theyre meaningless in local elections. Still, definitely a lot of issues, but voting in primaries still does far more than refusing to vote in the main election ever would.
I mean… It kinda was. Netanyahu deliberately stalled peace talks because he wanted Trump in power and he knew that killing Palestinians only hurt Kamala politically, it never hurt Trump because his voters don’t give a shit.
this is not a war, it’s been America helping the colonial occupation empty its largest concentration camp
they could have just stopped sending unlimited bombs to that genocidal occupation, but they chose to anyways in spite of all evidence that it was going to cost them the election.
they could have just stopped sending unlimited bombs to that genocidal occupation, but they chose to anyways in spite of all evidence that it was going to cost them the election.
They preferred losing the election to telling netanyahu no.
I voted for harris. This will not matter to any centrist, since I spoke out against their only policy.
The anti-genocide left was too insignificant to listen to, according to the pro-genocide center. Now they’re solely to blame for her loss, according to the pro-genocide center.
It can’t be both. Either they’re too insignificant to listen to, in which case they’re too insignificant to blame, or they’re to blame, in which case they’re kingmakers and you should have listened to them.
The anti-genocide left isn’t to blame for the loss.
The faux anti-genocide left who refused to vote for the best option for the people of Palestine on a very shitty election (Kamala) helped Trump with their inaction.
Trump, who by the way, has supported the genocide being hyper exacerbated compared to that of Biden and Kamala.
The Palestinians are objectively worse off now than they were under Biden, and most likely would have been under Kamala.
The anti-genocide left isn’t to blame for the loss.
Then stop blaming them.
the best option
The second worst option. Genocide supporters aren’t the best anything. Except to other genocide supporters.
The Palestinians are objectively worse off now than they were under Biden, and most likely would have been under Kamala.
Why do you keep trying to convince me to vote how I voted in an election that already happened? Oh right, you never gave a shit who won, you just want unquestioning support for the genocide supporter you want over the genocide supporter you were willing to accept as long as no one had the opportunity to vote for a candidate who doesn’t support genocide.
I would love to know how many people actually refused to vote for Kamala for the reasons you stated. Obviously it’s not zero, but I have seen some variation of the “are you happy now?” comment hundreds of times, and I’ve never spoken to such a protest voter in real life. Or maybe they’re everywhere and they’re too embarrassed to admit it.
Instead of pointing to gerrymandering, voter suppression and potential massive election fraud, the mass of comments like yours is starting to feel like straw manning.
My dude, look at the replies to my comments. These people are outing themselves.
Guilty conscious maybe?
Of course they would be more hush hush about their fuck up now. Who but the most imbecilic narcissists would say gleefully as minorities are being shipped end masse to concentration camps that they intentionally refused to act to stop it?
Who but the most imbecilic narcissists would say gleefully as minorities are being shipped end masse to concentration camps that they intentionally refused to act to stop it?
I can’t help that you intentionally refused to speak up against genocide.
Centrists experience no guilt as they don’t see Palestinians as people.
Just like they adopted republican immigration policy because they don’t see immigrants as people.
And just like even more centrists than already have are gonna throw trans people under the bus. And for the same reason: if you’re not netanyahu, you’re disposable.
Oh? It was just fine for a solid year to call anyone who opposes genocide a tankie, trumpist, republican, russian, chinese, child, bot, fascist and so on.
You were trying to convince me to vote for the candidate I voted for in an election that already happened. Ostensibly. Really, you just don’t like criticism of the genocide that will define centrism forever. So I don’t really give a shit that you’re offended by being called a centrist since you’re acting like one.
As leftists, we need to act in the best interests of the working class. If that means electing an arrogant cunt over a demented fascist, that means electing an arrogant cunt over a demented fascist.
The left refusing to vote for Hillary in 2016 didn’t move the party left. We didn’t get Bernie, we got Biden.
Why? Because a fascist presidency didn’t make people think “hey, we need a real progressive for real change”, it made people scared and panic vote for who they perceived was the “safest” vote, which was Biden.
History will repeat itself (assuming we even have a fair enough election in 2028, let alone 2026).
americans are stupid, a side-effect of decades of neglecting their primary and secondary education systems, they will only learn through direct personal pain…and now that pain is coming.
the best move to support/protect those effected, and to make sure they know whose helping them and whose out to get them
you’re not a leftist if you’re actively choosing to advocate and vote for the Liberal presidential candidate. -That makes you a liberal, again, not a leftist.
Leftists actually cared enough about the working class and all marginalized persons that they actually bothered to research what the best viable option was for those groups, and accurately determined it was Kamala.
Fake leftist virtue signalling pansies who’s support for such groups is entirely hollow and self serving on an almost narcissistic level instead boycotted voting for Kamala and quire literally bent over and gaped wide to allow fascists to win the election.
The only fake leftists here are you.
It is your legacy that you spoke for no one when it mattered most. Not ours.
Leftists actually cared enough about the working class and all marginalized persons that they actually bothered to research what the best viable option was for those groups, and accurately determined it was Kamala.
I did. I voted for her. She was the second worst of two pro-genocide anti-worker candidates. She wasn’t a “best” anything.
You can hate Kamala. I fucking hate Kamala. Hated her before 2024. But I cared and care about the people who are now suffering under Trump. Their lives weren’t worth sticking it to the Dems.
Every year the DNC says “we got less votes this year! Must be the centrists voting for republicans, we gotta be more moderate!” and then somehow those folks turn around and say “the democrats are too moderate, if enough of us don’t vote, the DNC will see they are losing support and realize they need to come back left!”
Both sides are not the same. Kamala would clearly have been less authoritarian and evil. Unfortunately the Democrats are currently so shit that voting them in, even repeatedly, won’t fix this mess. That’s because the current authoritarian form of the GOP would continue to sit at the sidelines, gathering support via populism for another term or terms, until it gets voted in, because the Democrats appease them at every turn and allow themselves to be dragged to the right on any and every issue the GOP chooses. This doesn’t work and the GOP end up winning. There were four years in between Trump 1 and Trump 2 and they did nothing to tell a story which counters the fascist othering of LGBT, brown and immigrant people (which will expand to “the left” , then anyone who disagrees with anything they say, and then finally members of their own club, as fascism always does). The GOP have changed the game, and the Dems are still playing by the old rules. Until someone like Bernie or AOC gets control, the actual quickest way out of the current tragedy is to let fascism eat itself, a process that may cost literally millions of lives. But sadly, voting in a Democrat gov is no longer a way to avoid this.
Kamala sucked bro. She started out with a promise of change, which saw her soar to knew heights as her campaign reached $1bn+ funding from a large proportion of individual donors.
But then around the DNC, she became Biden 2.0. And that turned people off because Americans had just kicked his ass off the campaign.
Politicians don’t automatically get to have our vote. They earn it through campaigning. The mentality of “Vote Blue No Matter Who” has unironically led to the Democrats racheting towards the Right. It happened in 2016, and it happened in 2024.
Voting AGAINST something, which Kamala made a majority of her campaign about, appears to not be as good of a rallying cry as voting FOR something.
I voted for Kamala btw. But I criticized her from start to finish in hopes to extract more concessions that she ended up allowing.
Actually I think it’s vitally important that voters learn from this. Or you’ll all be doomed to repeat this mistake again in the future, if you get the chance that is.
But who are these posts talking to? People who were lost in the wilderness for the past 9 months, and just got online for the first time this year? It’s just a rage circle-jerk at this point.
I’m trans and I didn’t vote for Kamala. Blue state, not like it even mattered. I have zero regrets about it on my part either. Since then all the liberals seem to be busy meeting the moment with capitulation and self-censorship, it’s clear they were never allies. I don’t care if I end up in a concentration camp, fuck this rancid ass country.
I’m trans and I very much care about not ending up in a concentration camp, please. (And yes I voted for Harris, but for the love of God can we take over the primaries next time, so the neoliberals are the ones holding their nose and voting?)
Since then all the liberals seem to be busy meeting the moment with capitulation and self-censorship, it’s clear they were never allies.
It was never about being allies with the liberals. It was ALWAYS about choosing the best VIABLE choice for the working class, for minorities, for women, for our planet.
And y’all dropped the fucking ball.
Even in a garunteed blue state, action I spires action. Discourse even to just a handful, has an echoing effect to someone who can male a difference. But you lot lack any strategic vision or foresight.
I don’t care if I end up in a concentration camp, fuck this rancid ass country.
Spoken like someone who hasn’t experienced real danger and doesn’t even comprehend the real danger their in.
If it means anything, I don’t give a fuck what happens to you specifically either. I give a fuck about the millions of innocent people who are now damned to death and suffering. And all of it could’ve been avoided if more leftists were actual fucking adults and observed the reality before them last November.
Even in a garunteed blue state, action I spires action. Discourse even to just a handful, has an echoing effect to someone who can male a difference.
It was the democrats participating in a genocide for over a year in advance of the election that had the ‘echoing effect’ of making people not want to vote for their disgusting asses. Just being realistic, a trans anarchist in a blue state not voting for bomber harris has literally zero impact on how anyone else voted.
But you lot lack any strategic vision or foresight.
You’re the one acting like scolding people over votes while the gestapo is roaming the streets is accomplishing anything
It was never about being allies with the liberals.
It was the democrats participating in a genocide for over a year in advance of the election that had the ‘echoing effect’ of making people not want to vote for their disgusting asses.
The Dems were also the only party that hosted any politicians in power who opposed the genocide.
Does the GOP have any that oppose the genocide (outside of the JQ like with MTG)? No.
Was Biden and Kamala gearing to mass deport and arrest anti-genocide activists and demonstrators? No.
Did Biden and Kamala give Netanyahu the greenlight to fully annex Palestine, and expand the war to include all of their neighbors, Iran and Yemen? No.
You have to be TRULY delusional to think the genocide is about the same now as it was under Biden.
You people couldn’t, for even a moment imagine it getting worse, even as the entire GOP was painting the picture for you in front of your face. Now its worse, exactly as everyone with a functional brain could for see.
Your lack of strategic vision and foresight, and let’s be real your completely hollow virtue signalling for faux support, is your problem that you’ve made other peoples’ problems.
Just being realistic, a trans anarchist in a blue state not voting for bomber harris has literally zero impact on how anyone else voted.
Just being a realist, action inspires action. Complete apathy towards the issue “because I live in a blue state” objectively had an echoing effect onto swing states with other potential blue voters. You aren’t escaping culpability with your cope.
You’re the one acting like scolding people over votes while the gestapo is roaming the streets is accomplishing anything
You’re the ones who refused to act when it mattered most and was most easy to do so.
I’m scolding you because you people enabled this shit to happen to begin with to feed your egos.
No one who opposes fascism should ever turn to you, or anyone else who participated in the virtue signal boycott, for alliance against fascism. You are untrustworthy and unreliable.
But hey, cope to protect your ego harder 🤡🤡🤡🤡
Again, I’m sure the feeling you got from virtue signalling is worth the end of any semblance of safety for you and everyone you love.
They’re not credible opposition.
Not you totally missing the point
Y’all ain’t credible allies, antifascists, or even anarchists for that matter
I’m trans and wish you wouldn’t project your not caring onto the rest of us. It only serves to show that you probably haven’t experienced anything even remotely close to concentration camps or the related dangers. I did not happily do it with a smile on my face, but I voted for Kamala because I knew that this exact thing would happen if Trump were elected. It was incredibly obvious. Gaza is even more fucked, even more bombed, gestapo is roaming the streets, and we’re actively discussing our community potentially getting sent to concentration camps.
But you decided to not even try to prevent it. You decided that because Kamala wouldn’t completely stop the genocide in Gaza, that Gaza, immigrants, trans people, and minorities should all suffer even more.
I’m not sure how you still feel good about your protest vote (being in a blue state doesn’t excuse it, either. You do not vote in a vacuum, especially when you talk about it online). If we ever get to vote again, I really hope you make better choices and don’t get caught up on a single issue. You should be able to choose the lesser of two evils, because if Kamala were elected, we would be in a better position to make actual, valuable change for things like Gaza, trans rights, and progressive reform. Obviously, we can’t know how much better of a position, but I can guarantee we would at least not be discussing how we’re going to be sent to the camps.
I get that our community is hurting. Please don’t make it worse for us because you’re apathetic.
I completely agree on the idea of voting for Harris for harm reduction. But I’m genuinely curious why you think her being elected would put us in a better position to get progressive reform. She showed that she was completely unwilling to back down or change her stance to get elected. Once she had won the election, there really isn’t any reason for her to change her stance. Even the idea that she would try to gain popularity to be reelected seems unlikely. Because if we have already proven that we’ll vote for someone not because they have good policies, but because they have less bad policies. The next election would be the same. With her most likely running for reelection. And either Trump or some other far right extremist running against her, forcing a repeat of the hypothetical 2024 election where she won.
It’s a rather bleak cycle, that makes it frustrating when people constantly hammer against the voters for not holding their nose and voting for the lesser of two evil, rather than the Democratic party in general for not listening to what their constituents want, and changing to a more populist progressive policy. I don’t agree with the protest voters, but I can at least empathize and understand where they’re coming from.
The really depressing thing is that even after losing because of it, we’re still not seeing much of a shift within the party. This should have been a wake up call for them. But it seems they still haven’t learned their lesson and seem more intent on using the Republican party as a cudgel to beat the population into voting for them, rather than actually adopting policies that make people want to vote for them.
Once she had won the election, there really isn’t any reason for her to change her stance
It would have been used itself as the reason not to listen to leftism since the headline (written by Ezra Klein) would have been “Neoliberalism Shows It Is The Only Winning Strategy For Democrats Again”.
hi, I ended up here in the US as a result of a right wing coup in my home country. I have had relatives with first hand experience of war, civil war, famine. it’s not something I take lightly which is why I am so appalled at the Democrats treating Palestinians like they’re expendible.
We don’t have a popular vote, due to how the system is arranged my vote hasn’t once mattered in decades of electoral participation. You’re kidding yourself about the influence of the fediverse if you think my comments had any impact.
I’m apathetic about voting, I’m actually extremely active organizing in my community against this shit. I find the people scolding about votes while doing fuck-all otherwise to be the ones making it worse.
It’s okay to be appalled, it’s normal. I’m appalled too. But because of our shitty, two party system, you are basically made to choose between the lesser of two evils in swing states. Choosing to not vote, or to vote for another party risks this exact outcome. While your vote in your state may not have had a direct impact (I’m willing to relent on that for now), what you say online (Lemmy or otherwise) or in person can convince someone in a swing state to also be apathetic, and that’s what hurts. It only has to affect one other person in a swing state, and then they’ll also spread their apathy to other voters in the state. It’s not a huge logical leap to consider.
When I say that you’re apathetic, I’m only talking about your voting habits. I know nothing else about you or what you do. I’m also not sure how trying to show how this behavior could result in our current situation is “making it worse”. I’m not trying to be insulting here, but if this apathy continues for the midterms (if they actually happen), it could very well convince some people to also not give a shit. I don’t want others in states where it really does matter to see your comments and think it’s all good to become entirely apathetic.
What really got to me was your comment about not caring about getting sent to the camps. Your relatives experiencing pain and trauma is one thing, but to experience concentration camps yourself is another thing entirely. You saying you don’t care about that could also be seen as you saying that you don’t care about the rest of the community being sent there, as well.
I’m not sure I buy the apathy contagion theory, I have a hard time believing anyone is actually swayed by me.
frankly the comment about not caring about getting sent to the camps was mostly being edgy to the guy doing the vote scolding like it even makes a difference now. maybe the Democrats would have been less bad overall, but after their past actions I have no reason to expect that Palestinians would be any better off under them.
my vote is a no-confidence vote in this shitty system and if supporting trans people becomes no longer politically expedient I fully expect that Democrats would cut us loose too.
People can be swayed by you without you ever knowing it, or even without them really even realizing it.
We can’t ever know if dems would’ve been much better because we lost that chance, but the GOP literally campaigns on being pro-genocide, so we knew where they stood on the issue beforehand. And we got even more confirmation of that now.
Similarly, we knew that the GOP would do everything they could to villify and condemn trans people. At least the dems didn’t fully campaign on it. Since you’re in a blue state, I wonder if you have protections that trans people in red states do not? I sure do, in my blue state. The dems here didn’t just talk about improving trans rights and protecting us, they actually did it, and have continued to do so. They did the same thing for abortion rights. Of course, not without massive complaints from the local GOP.
We can’t ever know if dems would’ve been much better because we lost that chance,
The democrats ran on a year+ of genocide, I have no confidence that they would suddenly have a change of heart afterwards.
The democrats in my state do in fact pass some protections, but do basically nothing about the fundamental economic and housing inequalities that make it almost impossible for red state trans people to safely relocate there. If you’re someone who can hustle enough to afford to live here it’s relatively safe, but despite all that we still have plenty of right wing democrats triangulating over things like womens sports.
Literally all of those people are russian/chinese agitators and you got agitated.
Lesson: make an effort to not get agitated. Learn to meditate or something. You can still have convictions and even get angry, but get angry when needed, not when somebody deliberately makes you angry.
Perhaps this is a conspiracy theory, but it looks to me like Lemmy was built by Russian and/or Chinese trolls specifically to agitate people against the West. They haven’t been attracted to be here, they have been here from the start.
Are all ya dumb fucks who refused to vote for Kamala happy?
Ya happy all your trans friends are about to be sent to concentration camps so you could virtue signal your pathetic hollow support for Palestine (that’s actively doing far worse under Trump than under Biden BTW)?
Hope all the death and destruction partially on your hands was worth you feeling like a special little hero for a few hours last November.
No shit.
Hey assholes - this is what the “worse of two evils” looks like! Remember it for the next time, if you get a chance again.
Well, it was all worth it because something something “status quo” and we’d have a genocide in Gaza, or something.
I will always understand having grievances for the democratic party because all they do is defend the status quo - I do too - but not voting over that is just fucking stupid. You want to change that? Go to protests, vote in primaries, support local initiatives for ranked choice voting, donate to causes you find actually beneficial, support local politicians that dont just support the status quo, support movements you believe in. If its about Gaza, speak up about that, donate to humanitarian funds, etc. There are ao many things you can do that can impact these things. But refusing to vote does actually fucking nothing for that cause.
There is no world in which more people refusing to vote for Kamala would have gotten us a better president or stopped genocide in gaza. Or really had any impact in any way that wasn’t making trump more likely to win. IMO the folks that did that were doing it more for themselves so they could feel morally superior because they didnt vote for the candidate that supported genocide or the “status quo” even though it literally never would have had any impact on either of those things.
(And let’s be real - trump is way worse for Gaza than Kamala would have been. I’m sure she wouldn’t have done enough, just like Biden, but at least there are voices in that party calling out Israel. Those voices fall far more deaf on this administration’s ears)
Yep, I could not agree more. Seeing the smug and the self-righteous still proudly argle-bargling about Gaza is infuriating, if you ask me. I don’t know how many genuinely feel this way when it’s online - many could just be paid Russian stooges or bots, for all I know.
But I do know a few IRL and when it comes up, it’s hard to keep my cool. It’d be one thing if they didn’t act so goddamned morally superior about it all. I’ve noticed that all of the ones I know of IRL are not in at-risk groups, other than a few cases being women and some being not active xtians (but raised xtian), if that counts. But all of them are white, all of them are at least middle class, none are gay/trans…probably most have the means to get the fuck out of this country if they really had to, etc.
Trans person here, Harris sucked as a candidate. Her refusal to take any sort of stance against an ongoing genocide isn’t the sole reason for her loss but it was certainly a pretty big factor, alongside all of the other positions she didn’t meaningfully differentiate herself from Biden on in an attempt to win over non-existent moderate republicans. I don’t blame a single person for refusing to vote for her, no one’s vote belongs to a party. Being upset at the people who wanted at least one of the candidates running for president to not be actively supporting a genocide, instead of at those politicians, who were actively supporting a fucking genocide, seems at best misguided.
(Also, of the anarchist/leftist groups and spaces I’ve visited or been a part of irl, a pretty significant number of the people there have been queer or trans or in some other marginalized group.)
People who oppose genocide are morally superior to those who support it. I can imagine that people who want to support genocide while still wanting to pretend they’re good people would like that to not be the case.
This is a two way street, your lack of perspective makes your self-righteousness just as insufferable.
One sentence of shit I don’t mean, but three paragraphs of shit I do mean.
And don’t bring up primaries. It’s just gloating since you know the party doesn’t run honest primaries when it pretends to have them at all.
Democratic primaries do have issues, yeah, particularly in the presidential race. But I wouldn’t say theyre meaningless in local elections. Still, definitely a lot of issues, but voting in primaries still does far more than refusing to vote in the main election ever would.
Henry Cuellar.
I mean we did all witness how maintaining support for Israel was deemed more important.
The Gazan War was so cynically manipulated to votes against Harris that it makes you think if that was all planned too.
I mean… It kinda was. Netanyahu deliberately stalled peace talks because he wanted Trump in power and he knew that killing Palestinians only hurt Kamala politically, it never hurt Trump because his voters don’t give a shit.
this is not a war, it’s been America helping the colonial occupation empty its largest concentration camp
they could have just stopped sending unlimited bombs to that genocidal occupation, but they chose to anyways in spite of all evidence that it was going to cost them the election.
They preferred losing the election to telling netanyahu no.
I voted for harris. This will not matter to any centrist, since I spoke out against their only policy.
The anti-genocide left was too insignificant to listen to, according to the pro-genocide center. Now they’re solely to blame for her loss, according to the pro-genocide center.
It can’t be both. Either they’re too insignificant to listen to, in which case they’re too insignificant to blame, or they’re to blame, in which case they’re kingmakers and you should have listened to them.
The anti-genocide left isn’t to blame for the loss.
The faux anti-genocide left who refused to vote for the best option for the people of Palestine on a very shitty election (Kamala) helped Trump with their inaction.
Trump, who by the way, has supported the genocide being hyper exacerbated compared to that of Biden and Kamala.
The Palestinians are objectively worse off now than they were under Biden, and most likely would have been under Kamala.
Then stop blaming them.
The second worst option. Genocide supporters aren’t the best anything. Except to other genocide supporters.
Why do you keep trying to convince me to vote how I voted in an election that already happened? Oh right, you never gave a shit who won, you just want unquestioning support for the genocide supporter you want over the genocide supporter you were willing to accept as long as no one had the opportunity to vote for a candidate who doesn’t support genocide.
I would love to know how many people actually refused to vote for Kamala for the reasons you stated. Obviously it’s not zero, but I have seen some variation of the “are you happy now?” comment hundreds of times, and I’ve never spoken to such a protest voter in real life. Or maybe they’re everywhere and they’re too embarrassed to admit it.
Instead of pointing to gerrymandering, voter suppression and potential massive election fraud, the mass of comments like yours is starting to feel like straw manning.
My dude, look at the replies to my comments. These people are outing themselves.
Guilty conscious maybe?
Of course they would be more hush hush about their fuck up now. Who but the most imbecilic narcissists would say gleefully as minorities are being shipped end masse to concentration camps that they intentionally refused to act to stop it?
I can’t help that you intentionally refused to speak up against genocide.
Probably a sign of a guilty conscience.
Centrists experience no guilt as they don’t see Palestinians as people.
Just like they adopted republican immigration policy because they don’t see immigrants as people.
And just like even more centrists than already have are gonna throw trans people under the bus. And for the same reason: if you’re not netanyahu, you’re disposable.
Good thing there’s no genocide now then. Whew. Bullet avoided with Genocide Kamala. Good job bravely standing up and doing nothing.
No centrist cares that I voted for harris; all they care about is that I opposed the genocide they wanted.
I wouldn’t know what centrists care about, but you sure seem to be throwing those accusations around at everyone who disagrees with you.
Oh? It was just fine for a solid year to call anyone who opposes genocide a tankie, trumpist, republican, russian, chinese, child, bot, fascist and so on.
You were trying to convince me to vote for the candidate I voted for in an election that already happened. Ostensibly. Really, you just don’t like criticism of the genocide that will define centrism forever. So I don’t really give a shit that you’re offended by being called a centrist since you’re acting like one.
But then how will they learn?! /s
Virtue Signalling leftists when boycotting voting for Hillary didn’t turn the Dems left so why the fuck would boycotting Kamala do it?
Hillary explicitly told the left that she didn’t need their votes… I guess, in hindsight, she was wrong.
Irrelevant to what I said. Reread it.
As leftists, we need to act in the best interests of the working class. If that means electing an arrogant cunt over a demented fascist, that means electing an arrogant cunt over a demented fascist.
The left refusing to vote for Hillary in 2016 didn’t move the party left. We didn’t get Bernie, we got Biden.
Why? Because a fascist presidency didn’t make people think “hey, we need a real progressive for real change”, it made people scared and panic vote for who they perceived was the “safest” vote, which was Biden.
History will repeat itself (assuming we even have a fair enough election in 2028, let alone 2026).
americans are stupid, a side-effect of decades of neglecting their primary and secondary education systems, they will only learn through direct personal pain…and now that pain is coming.
the best move to support/protect those effected, and to make sure they know whose helping them and whose out to get them
you’re not a leftist if you’re actively choosing to advocate and vote for the Liberal presidential candidate. -That makes you a liberal, again, not a leftist.
Leftists actually cared enough about the working class and all marginalized persons that they actually bothered to research what the best viable option was for those groups, and accurately determined it was Kamala.
Fake leftist virtue signalling pansies who’s support for such groups is entirely hollow and self serving on an almost narcissistic level instead boycotted voting for Kamala and quire literally bent over and gaped wide to allow fascists to win the election.
The only fake leftists here are you.
It is your legacy that you spoke for no one when it mattered most. Not ours.
I did. I voted for her. She was the second worst of two pro-genocide anti-worker candidates. She wasn’t a “best” anything.
“Best viable option” never translates to good.
You can hate Kamala. I fucking hate Kamala. Hated her before 2024. But I cared and care about the people who are now suffering under Trump. Their lives weren’t worth sticking it to the Dems.
Every year the DNC says “we got less votes this year! Must be the centrists voting for republicans, we gotta be more moderate!” and then somehow those folks turn around and say “the democrats are too moderate, if enough of us don’t vote, the DNC will see they are losing support and realize they need to come back left!”
When they win, they take it as a mandate to move to the right. When they lose, they assume it’s because they weren’t far enough to the right.
You sound like a republican here. For good reason.
Both sides are not the same. Kamala would clearly have been less authoritarian and evil. Unfortunately the Democrats are currently so shit that voting them in, even repeatedly, won’t fix this mess. That’s because the current authoritarian form of the GOP would continue to sit at the sidelines, gathering support via populism for another term or terms, until it gets voted in, because the Democrats appease them at every turn and allow themselves to be dragged to the right on any and every issue the GOP chooses. This doesn’t work and the GOP end up winning. There were four years in between Trump 1 and Trump 2 and they did nothing to tell a story which counters the fascist othering of LGBT, brown and immigrant people (which will expand to “the left” , then anyone who disagrees with anything they say, and then finally members of their own club, as fascism always does). The GOP have changed the game, and the Dems are still playing by the old rules. Until someone like Bernie or AOC gets control, the actual quickest way out of the current tragedy is to let fascism eat itself, a process that may cost literally millions of lives. But sadly, voting in a Democrat gov is no longer a way to avoid this.
It was never about trans. No one engaged in this line of thinking ever gave a fuck about individuals.
To think a political party is an ally… Yeah, I got a bridge to sell you.
Kamala sucked bro. She started out with a promise of change, which saw her soar to knew heights as her campaign reached $1bn+ funding from a large proportion of individual donors.
But then around the DNC, she became Biden 2.0. And that turned people off because Americans had just kicked his ass off the campaign.
Politicians don’t automatically get to have our vote. They earn it through campaigning. The mentality of “Vote Blue No Matter Who” has unironically led to the Democrats racheting towards the Right. It happened in 2016, and it happened in 2024.
Voting AGAINST something, which Kamala made a majority of her campaign about, appears to not be as good of a rallying cry as voting FOR something.
I voted for Kamala btw. But I criticized her from start to finish in hopes to extract more concessions that she ended up allowing.
They don’t care because this doesn’t affect them. That’s why they didn’t vote, they always want other people to make their decisions for them.
Only when you have felt oppression and seen it with your own eyes do you understand the impact.
I can’t wait until the right feels ACTUAL oppression and not just the made up shit they come up with for pity.
I sleep like a baby knowing I cast no vote for a genocidal administration nor a fascist one.
No, really, I sleep so well.
You just enabled the FAR MORE genocidal administration to kill off not only Palestinians, but now marginalized groups at home.
You objectively helped exacerbate the current genocide and make new ones. Sleep on that.
I really admire your bold and extremely aggressive stance of “the Democrats aren’t the problem, the voters are”.
So brave and forward thinking.
It’s people like yourself who’ve made the Democratic Party what it is today, congratulations.
My only regret is that I have but two hands to pat your back with.
Why is this stupidity still being repeated? God, I’m so tired of refuting it. I’m just gonna start calling you stupid and move on.
Just like you did when you passively voted for Trump and your local GOP representatives. What a surprise!
Tell me more about your fantasy.
You’re projecting soooo hard right now lol. Thought you were just gonna call it stupid and move on though. Guess you need more cope.
I’ll take your advice though. Another .ml GOP asset blocked. Lucky me!
You wrote shit about who I voted for with not knowing that. It was a fantasy mate. Nothing more.
I guess you also don’t know how to block people either.
Weird how they projected about you, then said you projected. And then got mad at you for what they did.
You literally are projecting right now. What is this, Republican logic?
.ml, of course lol
Edit: better?
Removed by mod
I’m not a political party, or in charge of anything.
Maybe you should direct your anger somewhere useful, like at those who were in power, or those who are seeking it.
Or not, you do you buddy.
It’s time to get over it and look to the future. She lost. Talking shit isn’t helping anybody but you.
Actually I think it’s vitally important that voters learn from this. Or you’ll all be doomed to repeat this mistake again in the future, if you get the chance that is.
It’s important that the party learns from this.
But who are these posts talking to? People who were lost in the wilderness for the past 9 months, and just got online for the first time this year? It’s just a rage circle-jerk at this point.
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btw I did vote for her…
I’m trans and I didn’t vote for Kamala. Blue state, not like it even mattered. I have zero regrets about it on my part either. Since then all the liberals seem to be busy meeting the moment with capitulation and self-censorship, it’s clear they were never allies. I don’t care if I end up in a concentration camp, fuck this rancid ass country.
I’m trans and I very much care about not ending up in a concentration camp, please. (And yes I voted for Harris, but for the love of God can we take over the primaries next time, so the neoliberals are the ones holding their nose and voting?)
liberals will do what they did last time they didn’t get 100% of everything they wanted. They’ll form a PAC to elect the republican candidate.
it would be nice if they actually decide to have primaries next time, I’m not holding out hope that elections are going to save us
It was never about being allies with the liberals. It was ALWAYS about choosing the best VIABLE choice for the working class, for minorities, for women, for our planet.
And y’all dropped the fucking ball.
Even in a garunteed blue state, action I spires action. Discourse even to just a handful, has an echoing effect to someone who can male a difference. But you lot lack any strategic vision or foresight.
Spoken like someone who hasn’t experienced real danger and doesn’t even comprehend the real danger their in.
If it means anything, I don’t give a fuck what happens to you specifically either. I give a fuck about the millions of innocent people who are now damned to death and suffering. And all of it could’ve been avoided if more leftists were actual fucking adults and observed the reality before them last November.
It was the democrats participating in a genocide for over a year in advance of the election that had the ‘echoing effect’ of making people not want to vote for their disgusting asses. Just being realistic, a trans anarchist in a blue state not voting for bomber harris has literally zero impact on how anyone else voted.
You’re the one acting like scolding people over votes while the gestapo is roaming the streets is accomplishing anything
They’re not credible opposition.
The Dems were also the only party that hosted any politicians in power who opposed the genocide.
Does the GOP have any that oppose the genocide (outside of the JQ like with MTG)? No.
Was Biden and Kamala gearing to mass deport and arrest anti-genocide activists and demonstrators? No.
Did Biden and Kamala give Netanyahu the greenlight to fully annex Palestine, and expand the war to include all of their neighbors, Iran and Yemen? No.
You have to be TRULY delusional to think the genocide is about the same now as it was under Biden.
You people couldn’t, for even a moment imagine it getting worse, even as the entire GOP was painting the picture for you in front of your face. Now its worse, exactly as everyone with a functional brain could for see.
Your lack of strategic vision and foresight, and let’s be real your completely hollow virtue signalling for faux support, is your problem that you’ve made other peoples’ problems.
Just being a realist, action inspires action. Complete apathy towards the issue “because I live in a blue state” objectively had an echoing effect onto swing states with other potential blue voters. You aren’t escaping culpability with your cope.
You’re the ones who refused to act when it mattered most and was most easy to do so.
I’m scolding you because you people enabled this shit to happen to begin with to feed your egos.
No one who opposes fascism should ever turn to you, or anyone else who participated in the virtue signal boycott, for alliance against fascism. You are untrustworthy and unreliable.
But hey, cope to protect your ego harder 🤡🤡🤡🤡 Again, I’m sure the feeling you got from virtue signalling is worth the end of any semblance of safety for you and everyone you love.
Not you totally missing the point
Y’all ain’t credible allies, antifascists, or even anarchists for that matter
They didn’t protect those incumbents.
They didn’t demolish the constitution and start deporting and jailing them either.
Only one party is doing that to people, and its also the only party that’s threatening our democracy.
Wanted to primary out the pro-genocide Dems? Me too. Now we likely can’t because it won’t matter when Trump deploys the Nat Guard on election day.
Lol no you didn’t.
I’m trans and wish you wouldn’t project your not caring onto the rest of us. It only serves to show that you probably haven’t experienced anything even remotely close to concentration camps or the related dangers. I did not happily do it with a smile on my face, but I voted for Kamala because I knew that this exact thing would happen if Trump were elected. It was incredibly obvious. Gaza is even more fucked, even more bombed, gestapo is roaming the streets, and we’re actively discussing our community potentially getting sent to concentration camps.
But you decided to not even try to prevent it. You decided that because Kamala wouldn’t completely stop the genocide in Gaza, that Gaza, immigrants, trans people, and minorities should all suffer even more.
I’m not sure how you still feel good about your protest vote (being in a blue state doesn’t excuse it, either. You do not vote in a vacuum, especially when you talk about it online). If we ever get to vote again, I really hope you make better choices and don’t get caught up on a single issue. You should be able to choose the lesser of two evils, because if Kamala were elected, we would be in a better position to make actual, valuable change for things like Gaza, trans rights, and progressive reform. Obviously, we can’t know how much better of a position, but I can guarantee we would at least not be discussing how we’re going to be sent to the camps.
I get that our community is hurting. Please don’t make it worse for us because you’re apathetic.
I completely agree on the idea of voting for Harris for harm reduction. But I’m genuinely curious why you think her being elected would put us in a better position to get progressive reform. She showed that she was completely unwilling to back down or change her stance to get elected. Once she had won the election, there really isn’t any reason for her to change her stance. Even the idea that she would try to gain popularity to be reelected seems unlikely. Because if we have already proven that we’ll vote for someone not because they have good policies, but because they have less bad policies. The next election would be the same. With her most likely running for reelection. And either Trump or some other far right extremist running against her, forcing a repeat of the hypothetical 2024 election where she won.
It’s a rather bleak cycle, that makes it frustrating when people constantly hammer against the voters for not holding their nose and voting for the lesser of two evil, rather than the Democratic party in general for not listening to what their constituents want, and changing to a more populist progressive policy. I don’t agree with the protest voters, but I can at least empathize and understand where they’re coming from.
The really depressing thing is that even after losing because of it, we’re still not seeing much of a shift within the party. This should have been a wake up call for them. But it seems they still haven’t learned their lesson and seem more intent on using the Republican party as a cudgel to beat the population into voting for them, rather than actually adopting policies that make people want to vote for them.
It would have been used itself as the reason not to listen to leftism since the headline (written by Ezra Klein) would have been “Neoliberalism Shows It Is The Only Winning Strategy For Democrats Again”.
hi, I ended up here in the US as a result of a right wing coup in my home country. I have had relatives with first hand experience of war, civil war, famine. it’s not something I take lightly which is why I am so appalled at the Democrats treating Palestinians like they’re expendible.
We don’t have a popular vote, due to how the system is arranged my vote hasn’t once mattered in decades of electoral participation. You’re kidding yourself about the influence of the fediverse if you think my comments had any impact.
I’m apathetic about voting, I’m actually extremely active organizing in my community against this shit. I find the people scolding about votes while doing fuck-all otherwise to be the ones making it worse.
It’s okay to be appalled, it’s normal. I’m appalled too. But because of our shitty, two party system, you are basically made to choose between the lesser of two evils in swing states. Choosing to not vote, or to vote for another party risks this exact outcome. While your vote in your state may not have had a direct impact (I’m willing to relent on that for now), what you say online (Lemmy or otherwise) or in person can convince someone in a swing state to also be apathetic, and that’s what hurts. It only has to affect one other person in a swing state, and then they’ll also spread their apathy to other voters in the state. It’s not a huge logical leap to consider.
When I say that you’re apathetic, I’m only talking about your voting habits. I know nothing else about you or what you do. I’m also not sure how trying to show how this behavior could result in our current situation is “making it worse”. I’m not trying to be insulting here, but if this apathy continues for the midterms (if they actually happen), it could very well convince some people to also not give a shit. I don’t want others in states where it really does matter to see your comments and think it’s all good to become entirely apathetic.
What really got to me was your comment about not caring about getting sent to the camps. Your relatives experiencing pain and trauma is one thing, but to experience concentration camps yourself is another thing entirely. You saying you don’t care about that could also be seen as you saying that you don’t care about the rest of the community being sent there, as well.
I’m not sure I buy the apathy contagion theory, I have a hard time believing anyone is actually swayed by me.
frankly the comment about not caring about getting sent to the camps was mostly being edgy to the guy doing the vote scolding like it even makes a difference now. maybe the Democrats would have been less bad overall, but after their past actions I have no reason to expect that Palestinians would be any better off under them.
my vote is a no-confidence vote in this shitty system and if supporting trans people becomes no longer politically expedient I fully expect that Democrats would cut us loose too.
People can be swayed by you without you ever knowing it, or even without them really even realizing it.
We can’t ever know if dems would’ve been much better because we lost that chance, but the GOP literally campaigns on being pro-genocide, so we knew where they stood on the issue beforehand. And we got even more confirmation of that now.
Similarly, we knew that the GOP would do everything they could to villify and condemn trans people. At least the dems didn’t fully campaign on it. Since you’re in a blue state, I wonder if you have protections that trans people in red states do not? I sure do, in my blue state. The dems here didn’t just talk about improving trans rights and protecting us, they actually did it, and have continued to do so. They did the same thing for abortion rights. Of course, not without massive complaints from the local GOP.
The democrats ran on a year+ of genocide, I have no confidence that they would suddenly have a change of heart afterwards.
The democrats in my state do in fact pass some protections, but do basically nothing about the fundamental economic and housing inequalities that make it almost impossible for red state trans people to safely relocate there. If you’re someone who can hustle enough to afford to live here it’s relatively safe, but despite all that we still have plenty of right wing democrats triangulating over things like womens sports.
And republicans have run on decades+ of warmongering and genocide. Invading other countries directly.
I know which one I prefer.
At the lack of support for genocide.
Absolute alpha tough guy here
I’m none of those descriptors, I just didnt vote for the genocidal shitheads
yeah but your point of view doesn’t count because it doesn’t fit within their narrow, convenient narrative.
Literally all of those people are russian/chinese agitators and you got agitated.
Lesson: make an effort to not get agitated. Learn to meditate or something. You can still have convictions and even get angry, but get angry when needed, not when somebody deliberately makes you angry.
Lemmy is not really big enough yet to attract Russian trolls.
centrists claim that anyone to the left of netanyahu is a russian troll.
Perhaps this is a conspiracy theory, but it looks to me like Lemmy was built by Russian and/or Chinese trolls specifically to agitate people against the West. They haven’t been attracted to be here, they have been here from the start.
it was created by @dessalines@lemmy.ml maybe they’re a Russian troll? I don’t think they are, but you could ask them :)
I feel like this has to be a joke. There’s a reason Lemmy has a bad wrap for being infested with Tankies, and it starts with Dessalines.
oh they’re totally a tankie, I just don’t think they were employed by the Russian government.
And he would answer truthfully, you think?
Your conspiracy isn’t true, mine is!