If you’re considering buying one you might want to take into account that they removed the headphone jack so they can sell their own wireless buds and headphones.
The lack of headphone jack is the sole reason I went with Samsung XCover 6Pro instead. Shame really, because I’m the kind of person who uses their device for +5 years, and prefer fixing stuff myself, but when Apple removed the headphone jack I made a decision to never buy a device without one if there’s an alternative with it and I’m still sticking with that. I bought an “outdated” laptop aswell because the newer model didn’t have USB-A, HDMI or a card reader. Ironically the most recent models now do.
Ironically the most recent models now do.
Not really ironic. They’re all just copying whatever Apple does, and they backtracked on that stupid decision.
It’s Apple I’m talking about
I care less about the lack of a headphone jack and more about the lack of multiple ports
USB C is genuinely a great multiport, but all of these companies leave the phone with one port. People would care less if each phone had two ports, so you could plug in headphones via adapter while also charging
That was one of the main reasons I was interested in their phones :/
I miss that modular phone people went crazy about for a week or 2 until it died out
Google bought and killed it
I just keep a USB c dongle permanently attached to my wired headphones, I forget it’s there. It adds like 1" to the overall cable length. I basically just converted all my wired headphones into USB c headphones.
Any evidence for that theory? I guess I’ve used Bluetooth hesdphones for years, so I’ve not got skin in the game. Lots of android devices seem to not have a headphone jack. And each part removed is one less part to pay for, or replace, or have to water proof. I’ve not looked into it because I’m happy to trade sound quality for wireless convienece, but umarent headphones that use the usb c port comparable in quality to 3.5mm?
But if there’s a leaked memo or something that it was a concerted plan by the company that would certainly be bad.
Is this a fair argument in 2023 with all the options for wireless headphones/buds? I feel like it still sucks because you can’t use your dollar store wired sets, but there are enough cheap raycon clones out now that it’s hardly a guaranteed secondary sale at this point.
because you can’t use your dollar store wired sets, but there are enough cheap raycon clones out now that it’s hardly a guaranteed secondary sale at this point.
It’s more about not being able to use existing high-end headphones and IEMs. It’s wasteful and expensive to replace those.
There are workarounds of course, but it’s never as nice as having a real headphone jack to work with.
I already have a good set of headphones. I don’t want to buy new ones or adapters, especially when I can just buy a device that they can plug straight into
Look, I do understand, and it took me a while to buy into the wireless buds thing, but you could have made the same argument for PS/2 mouse and keyboards, or anything using mini, and then later, micro USB.
The fact is, if you want to keep your old peripherals, but upgrade your main compute device, at some point you need to accept that you’ll need an adapter.
The 3.5mm jack was first introduced in the 1950s as a mini version of the 6.5mm jack… which was used as far back as 1878… it’s had a hell of a run, but if you weigh the pros and cons fairly, wireless as a standard has drawbacks, but is actually, ultimately an upgrade and it’s well overdue.
I just think there are enough wireless options (and adapters) available now that it’s not fair to knock fairphone for this decision anymore.
You’re arguing as if wireless audio is somehow better as ps2, etc was replaced by something better.
It’s simply not. You either buy a dumbass dongle or have to charge yet another thing. Along with that you can’t charge and listen to music at the same time without aforementioned dumb wireless ear buds.
It was a money grab, plain and simple. The 3.5 Jack is still monumentally viable and an asset.
It’s simply not.
Ye, well, that’s just, like, your opinion man…
But seriously, that highly subjective. I’ll take wireless over wired any day thanks. The inconvenience of having to charge the buds is not actually as bad as you’re making it out to be. You can charge and listen if you consider charging the case as still being charging the whole unit.
The convenience of not having to deal with the damm cables themselves outweighs the inconvenience of needing to occasionally charge them for me, and clearly I’m not alone.
Someone smarter than me can talk about audio quality over wireless, but when we’re talking about streaming music from Spotify, it’s moot anyway.
The fact is, for the vast majority of mobile users, wireless is an upgrade over wired.
But seriously, that highly subjective. I’ll take wireless over wired any day thanks.
You’re right, it is subjective. The point is, you don’t have to choose. You can have both and sacrifice nothing. But what you want is simply for everyone else to have fewer options.
Well that’s great because even if they include a jack you guys can all still have that.
you could have made the same argument for PS/2 mouse and keyboards, or anything using mini, and then later, micro USB.
You could but it would be a shit argument because that was a very logical and objective improvement and this is not.
The 3.5mm jack was first introduced in the 1950s
That is a pro, not a con. Because it means my headphones and other devices, regardless of how old, will still work just fine on brand new devices. Meanwhile your shitpod headphones will have to be thrown away after a year and you have to lick Tim Cook’s boots to buy another pair.
I just think there are enough wireless options (and adapters) available now that it’s not fair to knock fairphone for this decision anymore.
And all of them come with drawbacks, and having a headphone jack comes with none.
it would be a shit argument
This is fundamentally where we disagree. See my other comment
That is a pro, not a con
Never said it was a con, nor did I mean to imply that jacks are obsolete overall, only that it’s a valid move to not include them on a device that is primarily used to stream audio and thus doesn’t need the extra fidelity. Unless you want to try and tell me that Joe Public should be lugging around gigabytes of flac files?
lick Tim Cook’s boots
Lol, personally I prefer the taste of Han Jong-hee or Kenichiro Yoshida’s boots
jack comes with none.
Respectfully, this is rose tinted glasses talking. Do you know what my wireless buds workflow is?
- Open case
- Insert buds into ears and wait for “Bluetooth connected”
- Tap left bud
- Music plays.
Compare that to
- Pull out buds
- Untangle cord
- Pull out phone
- Fumble jack into the microphone hole for 2 minutes
- Look at device, and insert jack into correct hole.
- Unlock phone
- Open music app of choice
- Hit play
- Music plays
With wireless buds, I don’t even have to know exactly where my phone is. To say nothing of having to carry it around with me which, if you’re doing housework, or a workout can be a pain.
Also, anyone who’s ever had buds forcibly ripped from their ears because they’ve dropped their phone will tell you:
Wired buds ALSO have drawbacks
This is fundamentally where we disagree. See my other comment
I replied to “your other comment”.
only that it’s a valid move to not include them on a device that is primarily used to stream audio and thus doesn’t need the extra fidelity.
The fidelity is one of many many pros we have listed
Unless you want to try and tell me that Joe Public should be lugging around gigabytes of flac files?
I don’t understand what this has to do with anything.
Do you know what my wireless buds workflow is?
You’re missing the point. Pros and cons of each don’t matter because you don’t have to choose. You can have both. We had both, for decades. You can continue using whatever workflow you want. The existence of a headphone jack does not stop you from continuing to use Bluetooth. I was obviously referring to the cons of having the option of choosing wired.
I replied to “your other comment”.
I meant the one made elsewhere in this thread where I explain why I don’t think it’s a shit argument. I think the wireless is a legitimate upgrade over wired when we’re talking about a mobile phone.
The fidelity is one of many many pros we have listed
I don’t understand what this has to do with anything.I’m trying to point out that your “pro” of better fidelity doesn’t mean anything in a space where people aren’t using a lossless format, and so aren’t taking advantage of that extra fidelity anyway. This is admittedly an area I’m not strong in, so I could well be wrong, but I don’t think there’s any difference between wired and wireless when the source is Spotify.
you don’t have to choose.
Alright, this is fair. It would be great to keep the option for both. However, I don’t think it’s fair to knock Fairphone for not offering this option though, particularly because it takes space on the pcb and is an extra component cost (yes, a small one, I admit)
People are calling it a money grab move to not include a headphone jack, and I just don’t think that’s fair.
Tell me a pair of wireless headphones that are as good and around the same price as the moondrop Aria’s with extremely low latency (so they can be used for rhythm games) and can buy a replacement case for not too much.
Also Raycons are trash. Like they’re literally e-waste for how bad they are
Also Bluetooth’s audio quality is terrible when also using the microphone at the same time. So you can’t really make a call and enjoy listening to music at the same time
Who is listening to music on the same headset while making a phone call?
And why use your phone’s onboard DAC at that point if you want quality headphones?
And why use your phone’s onboard DAC at that point if you want quality headphones?
Some phones (LG) did actually come with a HQ DAC.
At that point you’re getting a very specific phone for a very specific purpose. It’s not the rule but the exception. So it doesn’t apply as a reason for any other phone. You’ve argued why the LG has a 3.5mm jack, not why Fairphone should have a 3.5mm jack. I’d also be curious as to how powerfully it can even drive headphones at that point. It must also have a stronger amplifier than most phones too. It’d be meaningless without it. What’s the point of high fidelity if it can’t drive headphones that can utilize it.
This is all getting away from the purpose of the Fairphone. It’s not a dedicated music player. It’s not advertising high fidelity music, psrticyij relation to other phones. I don’t think anyone is calling that LG phone “green” either.
Congratulations to anyone who can think of an edge case that wouldn’t apply to the Fairphone. Might as well mention a tensor chip not being in the Fairphone.
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I mean, I don’t know their other practices, but the removal of the headphone jack is hardly green washing. I’d bet it actually is more sustainable to not include it tbh, plus it is likely more affordable. Beyond that, with just looking into it, as I expected, they’re a more sustainable and repairable set of headphones compared to the rest of the market. Moreover, I highly doubt dropping the jack would drive folks to decide to buy these if they weren’t already. They’re not tiny earbuds. They’re over the ear which is generally something folks buy when they actually are looking for them.
Sometimes accelerated progress can lead to waste, but holding onto legacy tech for too long can also lead to waste.
The big issue with removing the headphones jack is just that it’s now impossible to use wired headphones while charging the phone.
For a lot of people that doesn’t matter but for some of us that’s a big deal. If they added a second USB-C port that would fix the issue.
But saying the 3.5 jack is legacy technology is also kinda wrong. A USB headset is not inherently better. You have to compare the digital audio converter that’s used. While USB headphones use their own dac, the jack uses the dac of the phone. So a cheap phone with high quality USB headphones will be better but a high quality phone with cheap USB headphones would be worse than using the jack.
Which even means jacks would be more sustainable because you only need one dac per phone rather than one per headphone.
And any form of wireless headphones are just inferior to wired connections.
just carry an entire usb hub with you
I didn’t say a USB headset is inherently better. The one on your phone isn’t inherently better either if you’re using a 3.5mm jack either. So the argument can work both ways. And to be honest, no phone really has amazing onboard DAC, and especially not the Fairphone.
It would be even more sustainable to not include the Bluetooth module. Less parts means less material use (making it greener) and less cost of materials as well (making it cheaper). The phone has speakers for audio anyway. Who wants to carry around some second accessory like headphones or earbuds? It’s not like anyone has a perfectly valid use case for the Bluetooth module, right?
Also, it doesn’t feature a serial port. This phone is almost useless. /s
You forgot PS/2. No one’s gonna use this USB thing, it sucks.
Yeah I think so too
You can also buy a cheap USB C-to-headphone-jack adapter.
The main reason they did it is to get a higher water-proof rating, making it easier to last longer.
No one doesn’t know that you can use an adapter. No one wants to carry that around. They cost money and you have to keep track of them. And you can’t charge the phone and listen simultaneously.
They did not do it to improve waterproofing. We have had several phones over the course of decades that were both very water resistant and included headphone jacks, so you can just stop with that capitalist non-sense.
Those phones were presumably glued together and not as repairable as the Fairphone is. Which is very useful, but does lower your waterproof rating, hence the need to compensate elsewhere.
I really feel like people are too quick to assume malice, generally. Often, there are just trade-offs with no clearly-right answer, and it’s not obvious to folks like us on the outside what those trade-offs are.
Please stop with water resistance nonsense. There were phones with headphone jacks that were waterproof.
Copying my reply to this same point from elsewhere:
Those phones were presumably glued together and not as repairable as the Fairphone is. Which is very useful, but does lower your waterproof rating, hence the need to compensate elsewhere.
I really feel like people are too quick to assume malice, generally. Often, there are just trade-offs with no clearly-right answer, and it’s not obvious to folks like us on the outside what those trade-offs are.
Galaxy S5 not only had a headphone jack and was water resistant but it had a removable battery as well.
Could you also replace the screen, camera’s, USB port, loudspeaker and earpiece with nothing but a screwdriver?
I don’t see how is exclusion of headphone jack going to help with water resistance if everything is held with screws anyway.
My guess would be that it’s one less hole that water/dust can get in?
Ok, Fairphone lied I guess. You obviously no better than the manufacturers. It’s not like other phones with those jacks likely cost more to water proof those jacks or anything. Everything is always exactly the same and doesn’t cost extra to do anything differently.
Judging by how much phones cost I expect them to be water resistant and have headphone jack. And besides, Fairphone said they removed it because it was a “point of failure” while conveniently releasing their own wireless headphones.
Louis Rossman was very against this idea, and gotta say I side with him on this.
Would be helpful if you could share why he was against that idea.
It has been a long time since I watched his video, don’t remember what his points were but check it out for yourself. Here.
Hehe thanks, I’m not a fan of watching videos, but I understand you don’t feel like rehashing the points here either :)
The only reason i don’t buy it is because it’s too big. Particularly for a phone i would commit to for a longer lifespan, the physical design needs to be without compromise, and i know that the moment someone releases a half-way decent mini Android phone, i will drop whatever phone i have and buy that instead.
I fear you’ll be waiting a long time.
I fear that too. But so long as my current phone holds out, there’s no point buying into another compromise upfront.
So… The Asus Zenfone 10?
That’s the same size as an iPhone 15 or Galaxy S23, not “mini”.
I had a Zenfone 6. It got a whopping 1 software update. It is otherwise a very nice-looking phone but that is unacceptable. And to my knowledge they haven’t committed to anything more than that.
We ever figure out if this can be unlocked? I know it was then it wasn’t, etc.
As far as I know it can.
I already struggle with the keyboard on what I’d call a sizeable Android phone.
Luckily if you are looking for an even larger phone for a scaled up keyboard, you have plenty of options. I don’t have the same struggle with the keyboard, and would happily use a 4" screen phone if one were available.
I really wanted to get this phone, but at 850Eur that’s a hard pass from me. I could let the lack of jack and FM radio slide, as well as some design choices that they made, as sacrifices need to be made to make it modular. But I can find that hardware in phones that cost a quarter of a Fairphone. And then there is the repair cost, where the parts cost almost twice as much as getting a non-fair phone repaired at a shop (even moreso if I were to use aliexpress parts and home repair). Again, I fully expect a repairable and fair-source phone to perform worse than a regular one, but this is like paying iPhone money for a Xiaomi midranger.
Also, the 8 year warrranty feels like a scam because the chip they use will be out of production in 4-5 years.Of course it’s more expensive than other phones with similar specifications.
The main point here isn’t to be fair to consumers by allowing them to repair their phones and giving them upgrades. The main point is to create a phone that is paying living wages to those producing it, and uses as many recycled minerals as possible and seeks to not be an absolute disaster for the planet.
If people stopped a while to wonder why their smaprtphoens are so goddamn cheap, I think people would be lining up to pay more for them. It’s not even remotely sustainable.
I’ve been corrected on the price - looks like I was using an older quote.
I do realize that their point is to make the phone’s manufacturing process fairer, but their older models were more decently priced, so I wonder how much of that tag is actually due the higher cost of manufacturing.
Still, since people switch phones a lot earlier than EoL, it would be nice if there was a way to discourage the frequent switching ( for marginal performance gains ) and instead encourage keeping smartphones until EoL ( which, granted, for some manufacturers is less than 2 years )
Fairphone is a social enterprise, and most Dutch companies presenting themselves as such are actually held to certain standards.
I haven’t confirmed this myself, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they actually publish all of their expenses so you can do the math yourself.
They have published a full breakdown for an earlier model: Over here
Oh wow I didn’t know they published the cost breakdowns for some of their models thats really cool! Thank you for posting that
Regular companies have an obligation to deposit their annual accounts with the chamber of commerce, but social enterprises tend to go above and beyond because their focus is not on economic gain, but on socio-economic gain.
There is no legal obligation to do anything special when you call yourself a social enterprise, that I know of. But using the description for bragging rights does put your company under increased scrutiny from the community and from researchers.
All kinds of modeling methods have been invented to make social-economic impact part of the businessmodel. Some of those methods are even similar to Alex Osterwalder’s widely used Business Model Canvas.
Some social enterpreneurs also make use of specific constructions using certain legal forms to prevent shareholders from steering the company away from its original goal. For example: some will opt to make a “stichting” (foundation) the majority shareholder of the main company. The stichting having auditing and course correction as their main purpose.
If you would like to know more about social enterprises, the dutch chamber of commerce has published a great article (in english) on the subject.
Are we using different websites? It’s 700 euro for me, not 850. Also it’s 5 year warranty and 8 years of updates.
Yeah, just noticed the new price. It’s not available in my country yet so I was quoting the one listed on gsmarena. At 700Eur it does make more sense, as it’s a similar price to the old Fairphone in 8gb guise.
Where’s the headphone jack?
Do custom ROMs such as Lineage and Postmarket OS support the fairphone 5 though?
Murena is selling the Fairphone 5 with the Lineage-based /e/OS already: https://e.foundation/leaving-apple-google-murena-fairphone-5-is-here-welcome-e-os-1-14-join-the-photo-contest-e-os-2023/
Postmarketos boots on fp5 but lots if things are not yet working. I think, the main contributor is a Fairphone employee https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Fairphone_5_(fairphone-fp5) I can’t find LineageOS development progress, but Murena look like they will be selling the fp5 with e/os which is customised LineageOS, so its probably making progress.
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How would you rate CalyxOS?
CalyxOS doesn’t support the FP5 yet but they are working on it. I have been using it for like 2 years and the only thing I miss is a sensor permission like the one from GrapheneOS.
Wish it had a jack
I don’t see the big deal about headphone jacks. If you really want wired headphones, stick a dongle on the end of the cable and leave it there. It’s almost exactly the same, except you can’t charge and listen at the same time - not really something I would worry about.
All this accomplishes is an unnecessary inconvenience. I shouldn’t have to lug additional cables, and far more importantly the choice between Wired/Wireless should be up to me, not the manufacturer
That USBC dongle will sound much much better than the weak DAC they’d pair with the headphone jack anyway.
I have a headphone jack on my 4a but I still use the dongle because the dongle can actually drive speakers.
This point is frequently overlooked imo
It’s like complaining a new PC doesn’t come with USB-A and only USB-C.
Design decisions shouldn’t always be up to the end user. Every single option can’t always be included forever and ever.
If you want wired for quality, you need a DAC anyway. If you want wired otherwise, leave the adapter on your headphones.
Don’t let your inability to adapt stifle actual developmental progress.
Jesus Christ, they do? Add it to the list then, i ain’t buying a computer without USB A ports. Also, taking choices away from the user is the shittest excuse for progress i have ever seen or heard of
Occasionally sluggish performance
Wonder how it will be in 5 years. Personally think you’d be better of buying high end now and keeping it longer. Also I never had any component fail on my Samsung devices (except screen but that was self inflicted and the repair prices of samsung are more than fair). Same with iPhones, they are way more durable than fairphones.
I don’t know of any high end Android phone manufacturer that promises security updates for >5 years. If you want to keep your phone that long or even longer, there are few choices unless you want to be vulnerable.
Also, I have no idea what exactly “more durable” is supposed to mean, but I’m very much certain that Apple’s and Samsung’s batteries degrade the same and their screens also crack when dropped. A replacement part and the repair will be significantly cheaper with FairPhone, especially for people who don’t want or dare to do it themselves because of anti-repair measures by the manufacturers.
For reference, a replacement screen for FP5 costs 100€ and comes with straightforward instructions from the manufacturer. An Apple screen replacement will cost you 340€ and there are no official ways to get replacement parts or do the repair yourself. You have to pay half a FP5’s worth just for an iPhone screen repair.
Edit: Spelling correction
Samsung and Google promise 5 years of updates. Google is said to provide more with the pixel 8.
Samsung charges 140 to 175 € for a repair on the s23. While almost twice as much as the fairphone, I still think its fair. I have to agree that what apple charges is way to much but that’s how it is.
As for durable I meant no random hardware fails. They are incredibly long lasting. My galaxy s4 and s6 still work to this day.
Sceurity updates shmecurity updates. How many stories of someone bank account being robbed through old android vunerbality have you heard about. Im not saying they are worthelss beacuse Obviusly its better to be secured than not but they really shouldnt be a factor when choosing whetewer to buy a new phone or keep using old one. Especialy if you are like a year behind or something similar.
Yep, still use my S10e which is almost 5 years old. Still as perfect as day 1. Not sure what to buy next, as small and as durable as this one…
I still use my Note 9 from time to time and it’s extremely responsive. The only thing I notice is the low refresh rate of the screen.
I forget, bargaining is which stage of grief?
wasn’t it the 2nd?
The only thing that makes me cautious about this phone is the CPU. Will it still be performant in 5+ years?
I mean I’m running a FP3 from 4 years ago and literally nothing changed. Phones don’t magically get slower if they’re not filled up with bloat.
Phones don’t magically get slower
They do if you stick with the OEM’s ROM.
Technically no, the OEMs ROM is what gets slower, hence my comment about bloat.
I’m still rocking a 2017 phone, courtesy of lineage.
People are shocked how fast it is, not because it’s old (they don’t know), but because it’s faster than anything they have.
Bloat, apps running for no reason, really slow a phone down.
It felt this way for me for my last Samsung S10. Their android become an unusable mess, bloated to the brink,so I switched it to Lineage. It felt like a different phone.
That phone alone determined me to go for Pixels which allow relocking bootloader with custom roms.
Yea, Samsung was my last device that caused me to switch to AOSP and now Lineage.
Had Moto before that which was pretty good, far less bloat.
I ordered the FP5 after using my OnePlus 3T for nearly 7 years, so I imagine it’ll be OK on that front, given I’m switching only due to issues with the USB port and power button.
YMMV but for regular users it should be fine.
Not sure how the CPU compares, but I’m still running a Pixel 2 XL and the only real issue I have is the lack of RAM. CPU speed is no issue here.
This post has devolved into shit and filled with a bunch of whiners complaining about the same dumb shit that isn’t a goal of this phone. Might as well whine the new iPhone doesn’t cost under $400 for as reasonable of a complaint anything on this post is.
C’mon US launch, never have I so badly wanted a phone in the States
This is the best summary I could come up with:
There are those who are happy to be in the market for a new device, who delight in discovering how phones have improved since they last upgraded and who can’t wait to reap the benefits of better low-light camera performance, a prettier display, and more premium build quality.
They’re the people who respond with despair when they’re told that their phone has reached the end of its software support period or that it’s no longer cost-effective to repair a seemingly minor hardware fault.
But now the phone comes equipped with technological advancements such as a modern OLED display with a high refresh rate, more robust waterproofing, and a higher-capacity battery.
To that end, there are actually more individually accessible modules this time around, which is nice if you, say, only need to replace one rear camera that’s broken or swap out a faulty SIM card tray.
That’s better than the IP54 rating of the Fairphone 4 (which was still resilient enough for me to use throughout an exceptionally rainy hike), but it still falls short of allowing you to fully immerse the device in water like you can do with an IP68-rated phone.
In low light, the phone produces superficially nice shots, but peer a little closer, and it looks like this is the work of aggressive processing, with a lot of fine detail smoothed out and colors artificially boosted.
The original article contains 1,968 words, the summary contains 230 words. Saved 88%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Why is it the price of an iPhone in Vietnam? Is it normal? I’d rather afford a PS5 with PSVR2 for the same price???
Because everyone in the supply chain is being paid a fair wage and not being exploited.
Oh yay, a roadmap. For a hardware device…
Have you ever heard the terms “security update”, “firmware” and “OS”? Then you should know why a “roadmap” or rather a support plan is necessary. Many other manufacturers aren’t even providing concrete plans and simply stop providing security updates after just a few years.
Weird. I could have sworn software comes on it too. Your phone doesn’t have software?
They could have used a similar design like LG G3 instead of having to remove battery to access Sim/sd card
