Not an American or a liberal, and yes, china is authoritarian. Is america better? No. The credit score system in the US is also bad.
Authoritarian is a meaningless pejorative.
The social credit score isn’t real.
Re: authoritarianism— your opinion.
Some of us aren’t in favour of oppressive regimes that aren’t transparent, surveil, and censor.
Still better then the baby eating pedo elite
It is possible to oppose all three things. It is possible to simultaneously oppose the Social Credit System in China, the Credit Score system in the United States, and the elites connected to Jeffrey Epstein.
The social credit system that you know of doesn’t exist.
I am a Chinese minority living in China. You really don’t know what you’re talking about when it comes to China. You very clearly have done 0 research beyond maybe reading RFA. You should be quiet until you have done some proper research.
Ad hominem, ad hominem, and mmm, ad hominem. Yeah, nothing to see here.
Not an adhominem. You’re not wrong because you’re stupid you just happen to be both wrong and stupid.
Well in the comment I said that you didn’t explain why I was wrong and simply resorted to making a string of ad hominems.
So I’ll reiterate: ad hominem, ad hominem, ad hominem.
Saying you should shut up if you haven’t researched a topic isn’t an adhominem.
Here’s some comparison:
- In both USA and china you can’t buy a ticket to a fast train if you’re credit score is bad. In china there is direct ban, in USA there is no fast Train.
- In china, this also applies to flight tickets. Basically if you have bad social credit, you are kinda fucked in almost anything in china including apointment to government services. USA it’s mostly tied to taking new loans or getting a new house or renting an apartment (?). Does not have actual effect on your ability to purchase flight tickets.
- In China they can check your phone (for images) and your online activity is quite accessible to the government. The checks can happen not only in international borders but also in inter regional borders. In USA, i know it’s a thing for foreigners during entrance to USA, not sure how is it for the citizens.
- In China you have to give away all your data (as a company), regardless of where that data is stored, if the government or the communist party requests it. They are technically different entities but practically the same entity. Failure to do so will fuck up your social credit. In USA you also have to hand over all your data (as a company) if the government asks regardless of where it is stored (since the CLOUD act), but hey at least you’re not handing over to the commies and it will probably not have any effect on your credit score.
- In china there is an app that notifies people of other people with poor social credit so they can generally avoid them. USA hasn’t invented that YET, although people from other political party are usually considered subhuman and beneath themselves and someone is looking.
This comparison mixes a few real policies with a lot of exaggeration. For example, the train and flight issue people always bring up is not about having a vague “bad social credit score.” What actually exists is a court enforcement measure. If someone refuses to comply with an effective court judgment (most commonly paying a debt or damages) the court can place them on the judgment-defaulter list (失信被执行人) and issue a high-consumption restriction (限制高消费). That mainly blocks luxury consumption like flights, first-class rail seats, and luxury hotels until the court order is fulfilled. The purpose is simply to pressure people to comply with the judgment and protect the creditor’s rights (why should sleazy business people who don’t pay their debts get to live lavishly).
Because of that, the claim that “if you have bad social credit you’re basically locked out of everything” is misleading. These restrictions target specific high-end consumption, not normal daily life. Even Chinese legal explanations make clear that they are meant to restrict non-essential spending such as flying, luxury hotels, expensive travel, etc., rather than basic living or ordinary transportation.
The surveillance point is also mixing separate issues. China does have strong state monitoring powers and extensive digital infrastructure, but that is not what the court enforcement blacklist system is. The travel restrictions and blacklists people talk about come from civil enforcement procedures in the courts, not from scanning someone’s phone or some universal personal “score.”
The same confusion shows up in the company data point. China has strict data and cybersecurity laws, but those are regulatory and national security frameworks. They are not the mechanism that puts someone on the judgment-defaulter list. That list exists specifically because someone ignored a legally binding court ruling, not because they refused to hand over corporate data.
And the idea that there is some nationwide app warning citizens about people with low “social credit” is another exaggeration. What actually exists are court databases of judgment defaulters, sometimes publicly searchable, similar to debtor registries in many legal systems. Again, the target is people who lost a case and then refused to comply with the ruling.
So the reality is much more mundane than the viral version. China absolutely has strong enforcement tools, but the famous travel bans people cite are mainly a judicial enforcement mechanism against people who refuse to comply with court judgments, not a universal social-credit score controlling everyone’s daily life.
Reminds me of the anime PsychoPass.
Im gonna say it, I’m sick and tired of hearing people talk about “evil Chinese authoritarian social credit system” when its inherently a good system that works. In the west when a corporation commits mass fraud and abuse they pay a minimal fine (sometimes they don’t even pay) and then they literally just get away with it. Chinas social credit system on the other hand actually holds businesses accountable.
I’m willing to say I’m not happy with either system. Corporations should pay and be held accountable but citizens should have a right to privacy and not have the sum of their actions turned into a number.
Yeah the made up system that doesn’t exist in the real world is really fucking scary OMG.
citizens should have a right to privacy and not have the sum of their actions turned into a number.
That “number” isn’t real. China does not have a single nationwide “social credit score” that rates every citizen.
What actually exists is a set of legal blacklists, the most famous being the court judgment defaulter list (失信被执行人). It applies to people who refuse to comply with a court decision, usually things like unpaid debts.
If you ignore a court order, the court can place you under a high-consumption restriction (限制高消费). That means you can’t spend money on certain luxury services (first-class train tickets, flights, five-star hotels, or other high-end purchases) until you comply with the judgment.
You can still travel normally, stay in regular hotels, work, shop, and live your life. The restriction is specifically designed to stop people who refuse to obey court rulings from enjoying luxury spending while ignoring their legal obligations.
The popular idea in the west that everyone in China has a constantly changing personal “score” based on everyday behavior is simply western fantasy.
When will Westerners realize that the common characture of the brainwashed, thought controlled, information controlled, constantly surveiled citizen that we attribute to China/The USSR/etc… IS US?! You clutch your pearls at people in other countries potentially being treated like that but are inclined to do nothing about OUR OWN countries treating US like that.
You can be against US and Chinese fascism simultaneously.
Chinese fascism
Just say you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Nice argument.
You didn’t make one you just stated something wildly incorrect so why should I take the time to give you a well thought out response trying to explain how truly idiotic is?
I did make one, that you can oppose two things at the same time.
I could explain, but wait, you already said that authoritarianism was meaningless to you. If it doesn’t matter to you, well, seems pointless to try to convince that it is actually fascist.
You have to be a troll.
You can appose 2 things
Sure not what I took issue with. I took issue with you calling China fascist which is just an untrue statement.
Authoritarian is a pejorative. All countries and states in class society are “authoritarian” by necessity. Fascism is a specific thing arising from the tendency for the rate of profit to decline in capitalist society.
You can keep insisting I’m a troll if it helps you deal with not being able to engage with arguments.
China is authoritarian, but authoritarianism doesn’t matter to you, so that shouldn’t matter to you. Consistency, please.
And no, countries aren’t “authoritarian” by necessity. Even if some amount of policies etc that would be considered such exist everywhere, you have countries that are freer and countries that have more political suppression, censorship of media outlets, etc etc.
China does censor it’s media—political and entertainment— heavily. Just one small example.
Snowden showed they realized but didn’t care
and the epstien files have shown us how little americans care about anything besides themselves.
Per Wikipedia:
The program first emerged in the early 2000s, inspired by the credit scoring systems in other countries.
It’s almost the same thing but a different name, and is nationalized to a state system instead of like 3 or 4 companies lmao
Right wingers fear the word “social” for some reason ig
The Misconceptions section of that page is really funny. It just keeps on going with the same thing over and over but with different people and dates, it feels like a bit
Some gringo in the comments: “Something something Uyghurs, something something mass surveillance, winnie poo”
The only muslim people they suddenly “pretend” to care about because their media hides the fact that they are muslim.
Muslims everywhere else are fair game.
Something something
Tibetan monk sentenced to six years in prison for teaching Tibetan language
https://phayul.com/tibetan-monk-sentenced-to-six-years-in-prison-for-teaching-tibetan-language/
Liberals and real actual gaza genocide: 🥱
Liberals and fake Uyghur genocide: Real shit
“fake” Uyghur genocide, wow.
It is? Their is no evidence. It’s a fabrication invented by a German evangelical on a self proclaimed “mission from god” to destroy communism.
No, it isnt. We have geographic evidence as well as countless testimonies of the Uyghur people.
For some reason when it comes to China/Uyghur muslims, people have no issue dismissing their genocide and thinking it’s okay.
I was in Urumqi recently enough and I can tell you this they are some of the most pro government people I have ever talked with lmao they love that ETIM was kicked out.
You have gusano testimony from the likes of Rushan Abbas (Guantanamo bay torturer) It’s not real.
Also tell me about this geographic evidence? Pictures of prisons that you decided are camps because we’re evil scary Chinese people?
I never said “you’re evil scary Chinese people”. The Chinese state however, is another story (authoritarian— but I know you’re apathetic towards authoritarianism). I realize now that this may be evoking some sort of nationalistic reaction out of you, though.
I didn’t “decide”— like I said, independent journalists and satellite imaging. And no, it’s not reducible to “Western evil scary propaganda” like you’re making it out to be.
The Chinese state that has 95+% support from the population and is made up of a representative of Chinese people.
White people decided we’re evil and you just go along with it without any investigation because you’re racist and it confirms your biases
All of the ID verification, posing as age verification, legislation is for better thought monitoring of social credit too.
Yea, China monitors a billion people in their country and assigns them a score if a citizen walks on the sidewalk correctly /s
assigns them a score if a citizen walks on the sidewalk correctly
Funny story about Jaywalking
The automobile lobby in the US took up the cause of labeling and scorning jaywalkers in the 1910s and early 1920s. In 1912, for instance, Popular Mechanics magazine reported that the term was current in Kansas City: “The city pedestrian who cares not for traffic regulations at street corners, but strays all over the street, crossing in the middle of the block, or attempting to save time by choosing a diagonal route across a street intersection instead of adhering to the regular crossing, is designated as a ‘jay walker,’ in Kansas City.”
In 1915, when New York City’s police commissioner Arthur Woods sought to apply the word “jaywalker” to anyone who crossed the street at mid-block, the New York Times protested, calling it “highly opprobrious” and “a truly shocking name.”
Originally in the US, the legal rule was that “all persons have an equal right in the highway, and that in exercising the right each shall take due care not to injure other users of the way”. In time, however, streets became the province of vehicular traffic, both practically and legally.
Anyway, enjoy your hyper-criminalized car culture hellscape while making spooky fingers about Evil Foreign Country.
Yea, China monitors a billion people in their country
Correct, and those abroad too.
I know this because a US government-funded “independent” think tank told me so.
You know the stories of secret overseas Chinese police stations were fake news, right?
Experian, TransUnion, and Equifax are awful entities that I never consented to share my personal financial data with. But one wrong doesn’t justify another. Personally I think a score by private data brokers to judge creditworthiness is less harm than a score by your government to judge social worthiness but both are harm.
Both are bad???
Exactly my thoughts. People just mass downvote into oblivion, no reasoning provided.
one of them doesn’t even fucking exist
Sure, let’s say it doesn’t since I admittedly haven’t looked into this in painful detail. However, this meme seems to suggest that if it did exist, then it would be perfectly fine on the virtue that credit scores exist in America. Aka, whataboutism.
Since Germany made concentration camps under the third reich that it isn’t that bad when America does it. At least by this logic. Guess it’s impossible to be against two things at once. Though I hope I’m just misinterpreting the point
The meme is pointing out hypocrisy among those in America. Its common to hear them mock China for having a social credit score system, while apparently not realizing they have exactly that with credit monitoring companies.
This is all made more ridiculous by the fact that there is no social credit score in China as Americans understand it.
The joke is that Americans brag and call everyone else barbarians, when they themselves are the barbarians. Its pure projection to inflate the massive American ego.
I’m not comparing the systems or saying it’s better, but you don’t need a credit rating to get a mortgage on a home in the US and are doing yourself a disservice repeating that talking point.
If you don’t have a credit rating they’ll ask for other evidences you are able to pay off a 15-30 year loan like consistent and not missing payments on a phone, rent, utilities, internet, etc steady employment, bigger down payment. it’s called manual underwriting or a non traditional mortgage application.
Have fun with the interest rate you’ll get. You’ll inherently be a higher risk than someone with a good credit score.
Man, what world you live in?
If you treat your credit card like your debit card, you can get 3% off literally everything. As long as you don’t spend more than you make, you’ll never owe interest.
I have enough credit, I can by a whole car with the swipe of a card. I’ll never have to wonder about underwriting or proving myself. I’ve already done so to my bank. And if I ever decide to do that, I’ll have zero down and zero interest for 6 months.
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This deep into the Gaza genocide, anyone with two neurons to spark together hates liberals. Smug, conspiratorial fascists-in-denial who will spend decades helping to strangle you, then criticize the way you breathe.
If you’re pro Russia, you’re pro-genocide.
Pure projection
1- Provided with reasoning/analogy 2- “Projection”.
Smh.
“Reasoning” lol try harder halfwit
We call that an ad hominem, sire.
An ad hominem is when an argument consists of a personal attack, this is just a personal attack dumbass, you never presented an argument worth rebutting, go back to reddit
I’m well aware of the USA’s complicity in genocide. You seem to be unaware of Russia’s.
It’s really bizarre to be against genocide and unabashedly pro-Russia while spreading their insane genocidal propaganda.
I think you don’t really care about genocide, I think you’d rather just see more of it from the Republican Party because you’re a paid Russian asset.
Like I said to your partner in crime, I wish you the best in avoiding conscription into your own country’s genocide by sucking Putin’s cock. 👋
I’m aware of liberals throwing the word genocide around in regard to shit that is demonstrably not genocide, and accusing everyone who disagrees of being a bot or a paid enemy agent. This is also projection, you are a morally bankrupt lackey of a dying empire and you are losing and you are coping poorly with it.
I wouldn’t make said accusations—and I’m not a liberal— but Russia is involved in genocide.
You did, you are, and no lol
*pro Trolley Problem
Fixed.
Yeah, supporting the country whose fighting the empire, rooting out nazis, and stopping a genocide is being “for genocide”. Do you libs ever question your sources or what??
.world user
makes sense, thats probably a no then?
Russia rooting out nazis. Fighting the empire? Wild.
Putin IS a nazi. Russia IS an imperialist regime. Are we not going to talk about Russia’s imperialist attacks? Is that all chill? The attacks on Ukraine are equivalent to genocide historically.
Simply because Russia is anti-US, doesn’t make it free of guilt for much of the same actions the US takes.
You should stop trivialising the word genocide.
Trivializing? They have literal concentration camps for Uyghurs. You know, the things used for the Jewish genocide/holocaust by Hitler.
Stop defending china and call it out for its unethical actions.
There are no concentration camps? There were prisons where terrorists were rehabilitated and vocational schools. Neither of these are concentration camps. When was the last time you were in Xinjiang? Uyghur is widely spoken and all signs are in Uyghur and Chinese. There were some abuses during the crackdown on ETIM and that was bad but that has already been corrected and abuses are not genocide you should stop trivialising the word genocide.
It’s like saying, “Invading Iran is okay because their state is bad.” It’s not okay - look at how much suffering it causes. And for what? Simply replacing one oligarchy with another.
Yea Russia is really rooting out those Nazis in Ukraine lol, maybe if you simp for Putin harder you won’t get conscripted into the meat grinder. Best of luck to you in your crusade to end genocide by spreading Russian propaganda. 👋
Yea Russia is really rooting out those Nazis in Ukraine lol,
I know liberals struggle with this concept, but saying true things sarcastically doesn’t not make them less true
“propaganda”
Yeah, I guess thats what you’ve been conditioned to spout when encountering non-empire-sanctioned news sources ha ha!
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Silly, this is .ml for marxists. We’re all pro-China, Russia, and even gasp pro-DPRK because we don’t shun from news sources that havent been deemed worthy by the empire
I never understood how being a marxist has anything to do with being pro-putin, who is obviously the exact opposite of a marxist.
You’re conflating Marxist methodology with liberal moralism. Marxists do not offer abstract “pro/anti” judgments based on a regime’s ideology, but analyze states through their structural position in the global system. Contemporary Russia is indeed an oligarchic capitalist state, but its integration into global capitalism is asymmetric and subordinate. Its economy remains heavily dependent on raw material exports rather than high-value capital export, and it lacks the core instruments of modern imperialism: dominance over global financial institutions, reserve currency status, and the ability to enforce structural adjustment. Unlike the U.S., Russia cannot print the world’s reserve currency to finance overseas expansion or weaponize SWIFT-level financial infrastructure against rivals.
This material reality limits Russia’s capacity for classic imperialist expansion as Lenin defined it, namely, the dominance of finance capital and the export of capital as the primary mechanism of exploitation. Russia’s capital accumulation model, centered on resource rents and regional security projection, does not replicate this. It lacks the deep financial markets, technological monopoly rents, and institutional leverage that allow core imperial powers to extract surplus globally through “peaceful”(generally far from peaceful in reality) and economic means. Its military actions, therefore, function more as defensive geopolitics or regional balancing than as instruments of systematic capital expansion.
Precisely because Russia cannot compete with entrenched imperial powers on their terms, its rational strategy is to undermine unipolarity. Supporting multipolar institutions like BRICS and the SCO, opposing NATO expansion, and backing states resisting U.S. pressure are not expressions of socialist solidarity, but materially rational moves for a subordinate capitalist power seeking strategic autonomy. The objective effect (fragmenting U.S. hegemonic control) creates space for anti-imperialist struggles globally, regardless of Putin’s subjective intentions.
Our support is therefore entirely critical and conditional. We recognize that Russia’s structural position leads it, out of self-interest, to back anti-imperialist struggles, and we support those objective anti-hegemonic actions because they weaken the primary engine of global imperialist exploitation. Simultaneously, we oppose its internal reactionary politics, oligarchic structure, and any chauvinist or expansionist tactics that harm working-class solidarity. This is not a logical contradiction, it is dialectical materialism: judging policies by their concrete role in the global class struggle, not by the ideological labels of leaders. Reducing this analysis to “pro-Putin” ignores Marxism’s core method: follow the motion of material forces, not the slogans of statesmen.
Cope
One of us may not be coping very well.
Cope
Some folks need to hear the same thing 50 times before they fuck off
