For a while now the transition away from Manifest V2 (MV2) to MV3 has been on-going and it looks like it is entering its final phase of deprecation, at least, in the case of Google Chrome. A recent discussion thread in the w3c WebExtensions Community Group GitHub repo has highlighted how the latest and upcoming versions of the most popular browser are expected to be its final releases with support for MV2 extensions.
What this essentially means is that the tricks and bypasses that were used to keep MV2 extensions like uBlock Origin and others alive will not work any more on Chrome, or at least not for very long. For example the Windows Registry mod that could extend MV2 availability will cease to function after Chromium version 151.
Pretty fucked up considering how much malware and scammy bullshit come though ads.
Yep, sorry but not sorry. Advertisements aren’t safe. The industry has been ruined by bad actors and it’s a shame, but also not my problem.
It’s everyone’s problem in a way…
Over 10 years ago someone at my office had their work PC and user drive encrypted with ransomware because of a bad ad injection from one of those job search sites. Thankfully it was limited to nothing critical and incremental backups restore the drive…but hopefully they found a good lead because they were canned.
If they’d had a good ad blocker this would have been a non issue
I work in IT: Pretty much all the malware we deal with comes from ads. I’ve pitched making ad blocking standard but they never go for it, even though it’s clear it would prevent an absolute shit ton of attacks. It’s crazy!
Seriously. If Google really wants to shove ads down our throats, they could at least regulate them so they’re not constantly horny scams. But that would cost them money, oh the humanity.
Oh look all the “chrome but in a different outfit” browsers are doing the same terrible shit? What a shocker, no one could have predicted that the many many things all on the same base where actuality just fake competition.
Firefox has webserial support now. I no longer need anything chromium. Let them rot.
What is it used for?
Even grapheneOS use it for adb into your phone to flash the images.
Where oh where is my PWA…?
“Coming soon…”
How about bluetooth support? Has that been fixed yet?
Why the downvotes? I have 4 machines at work, and none of them can send code to a LEGO Spike Hub over bluetooth in Firefox but works perfectly fine in Chrome.
They are all chrome with google scratched out and their name written in sharpie in its place.
Of course they are all doing it, cause they are all the same thing.
They don’t even try to pretend to fight it.
because theres no fighting google.
Microsoft tried, and google won, which is why Edge became a chrome reskin instead of what it was before.
Everything dies.
Yeah, but the worse they are the longer they live apparently.
Luckily, that’s something you can change!
To avoid a visit by the FBI, I will say no its not.
The winning move is not to do business with them, don’t compete just exist and pretend they don’t exist. Microslop played the game and lost, but it is a stupid silly game.
kinda hard to do when google holds the internet by the balls. and can twist at any moment to get what they want.
Microsoft and Mozilla employees have both accused them of doing this in the past, to sabotage non-chrome browsers on google services, to make chrome look better and drive users to chrome.
News to me, Does google hold this site by the balls? They have a lot of power yes, but they are not some unsinkable boat.
They only ‘hold the internet by the balls’ if you are using and reliant on Google products.
There are hundreds (if not more) tutorials and lists online to guide you through degoogling
I’m sure we can get thousands of websites and every major corporation to degoogle cause you said they should.
God it still pisses me off what they did to my boy Opera. All of us left when they diverted after v12. We all saw this coming.
Then Vivaldi came which I have tried in quite a while but it sucked. Firefox it is.
I like Vivaldi except for two things: it uses the same engine as Chrome so facilitates Google’s stranglehold on web standards, and it is closed-source. For functionality and design it’s one of the best, but those are important downsides.
What about vivaldi sucked for you?
Chrome is death to a browser, there is little reason to exist if google gets to make the big calls.
Yeah opera used to be the one. I’m STILL pissed that they deleted all of my notes
It’s a damn shame, I’ve always liked Vivaldi otherwise. I’ve been dual running Vivaldi and Firefox for years now, Vivaldi for casual browsing and Firefox for more serious stuff + YouTube.
Oh well, it’s time to do a full switch, I guess.
Kinda funny, I’ve been doing the exact same thing with Win/Linux for approximately the same length of time. Needed Win because of dome software that just doesn’t work linux, and sadly, I still do.
Google and Microsoft can go fuck each other with a frozen cactus for all I care.
The folks at Vivaldi have been doing some work on their internal ad blocker, I think with the intention to bring most of the functionality of uBo internally so that it doesn’t have to be an extension. Not sure how far along they are, but maybe they’re intentionally keeping it quiet.
Vivaldi have earned and deserve a lot of trust here I believe. All my chromium eggs sit in their basket.
Same here. I’m an Opera refugee so to say (and I had high hopes for Opera actually). I’ve been using Vivaldi since its first public alpha/preview/whatever they were calling it.
Yup, Vivaldi user for 8 years and it hasn’t let me down yet, but this post is troubling news.
Aye, I’m just not sure how it’s going to play out. One can hope, though. It’s definitely one of the best options Chrome-wise either way.
I’m wondering what the decision making was when they were starting (which is now 10 years ago already, time flies, yo).
From today’s perspective, a Firefox fork sounds way more logical. Back then maybe things with Blink/Chromium weren’t looking so grim, maybe they were relying on the experience of that part of the team that moved over from Opera…
10 years ago Google was trusted and liked. The cracks were starting to show, but we’re talking about the Google that was still open sourcing a lot of their products and loudly opposing government censorship of the internet.
I mean, on a technical level chromium isn’t a terrible browser engine. Building your own engine from scratch is Extremely Hard™ and it’s entirely possible to build a decent browser on top of it, so I can understand why most alternative projects have done just that.
It’s just… google’s control over chromium is concerning.
And an ecosystem of one engine is not healthy. Even if google was not google, this is a massive risk to take for the Easy™ way.
It’s not an ecosystem of one, though one is very dominant.
You can compare it to Linux. It’s not the only Unix-like kernel, but it’s similarly dominant. If you want to create a new distribution, it doesn’t make any sense to spend a decade trying to write your own kernel rather than just using the Linux kernel (insert GNU Hurd jokes here).
Is that an unhealthy ecosystem then? I don’t think it is.
What makes the chromium situation unhealthy is Google’s ownership and control, not that it’s the preferred engine for other browsers. I mean, even a company as large as Microsoft gave up trying to create their own engine.
Your example is a poor choice, Linux overall is one example of an OS for users. There are more OS choices then Linux, that is good. Nothing like web browsers where people where actively trying to make everything chromium based. The ecosystem is unhealthy when there is one choice for an entire type of software (so for OS you have Linux, Windows, and Mac as big players) and outside of Firefox and its forks all web browsers are Chromium based. Oh and although there are other fringe options they don’t matter much, much like in the OS world Temple OS is not a real choice.
My point was that it would be very very bad if Firefox was not there (or turned into chromium) as an ecosystem of one is a massive risk regardless of who controls it.
Yeah its a real surprise. :)
Illusion of choice
The more you tighten your grip, Google, the more ad revenue will slip through your fingers.
They could have sat on 30 second ads every 15 minutes till the cows came home and most of us would have been fine with it.
They could have sat on premium family for $9 a month for years and we’d have been ok with it.
They had to be greedy as fuck until none of us want to use their services.
The line has to go up. That is literally the law. The fact that Youtube has a larger income than Disney doesn’t mean it will stop. They can never stop. They just can crash and burn down eventually but only after making a few people very very rich.
That’s the damn thing, the line could have gone up through getting more people. They decided less people and higher prices would win… it will not
Not after they demonstrate the power of their evil browser. In a way, you have determined the choice of the ads that you will be shown first.
Honestly I don’t think so, the average person won’t bother with changing browser. So they might lose more users but they dont care about those users because they are were using adblock anyways
Remember that article awhile back about the FBI recommending you use an adblocker?
That means even the FBI recommends you don’t use Google and Microsoft browsers anymore
The 2026 FBI recommends that you vote for Trump, or else.
The browser wars have been kind of strange from the perspective of someone who’s been using Firefox for well over a decade. It’s a bit like hearing about the Civil War while living in Oregon.
i used opera for around 13 years. i knew about the flaws but i was simply used to it, and as long as adblock worked i couldn’t be bothered to switch to anything else
then my laptop broke and only that happening gave me the incentive to install something else, i was starting from (close to) scratch anyway
it’ll take a lot of effort for people to abandon what they know, even if they’ll be moving towards something better
i use Zen now :) it’s nice
Another zen user, good to hear!
Zen is a reskinned Firefox. Firefox depends on Google’s funding to stay afloat.
Everything else, other than Safari on Mac is either chrome-based or firefox-based.
There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept.
Where is ladybird browser? They should just release it
Patience! They have recently rewritten a part in Rust. See the news.
You can try it is not that difficult
You won’t like it though
I hear about people “going back” to Firefox.
You can’t “go back” if you never left in the first place.
Government becomes more fascist, tech companies become more fascist.
People don’t like surveillance advertising, and most reject it when given the choice. Unpopular policies are squashed when the people are represented, and the Republican policies and interests of forced and extreme deregulation are being represented here, not the people’s.
That, and I believe advertising is inherently fascistic in the way that it distorts realty, and intrusively attempts to modify thinking with punitive, insulting, and psychologically coercive methods - it is corporate propaganda, and when it is combined with surveillance and purchased by the State, it becomes fascism.
I can’t wait for them to try and make ad-blocking illegal. We’re seeing a similar trend with the age verification firm Yoti “reporting” GrapheneOS users to “the authorities”, whatever the hell that Gestapo bullshit scare-tactic means. If FOSS software and ad-blocking are tools of privacy and freedom from thought manipulation, and those concepts are being attacked by a State-backed corporate entity, then the State no longer represents those values. Chrome, like so much other corporate software that has sunk to surveillance advertising with a healthy side of selling data to the government, is now just another fascist tool to punish democratic resistance.
Freedom from advertising is a human right.
The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. …
~Edward Bernays From his 1928 publication - Propaganda
Edward is the father of modern advertising through psychological manipulation.
He’s the reason bacon and eggs are breakfast.
I am posting this again in such a short time, but The Century of Self is required viewing in my opinion. That asshole you mentioned, Bernays, is one of the prime perpetrators for the state of advertising.
— Anyway, I do highly recommend (for those that haven’t) investing the time and watching The Century of the Self by Adam Curtis. It is very illuminating as to how we’ve arrived where we are now with regards to propaganda and advertising which are rooted in the same psychological underpinnings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Century_of_the_Self
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ3RzGoQC4s
It appears to be on Netflix, as well.
I was the one who you posted it to and it’s well worth a watch. I put it at 1.25 speed and that was about right.
Hey there, Pele!
I was going to mention two other docs to you that my friend and I found quite good (though different topics). They are:
I hope you can find them somewhere. If you torrent or what not, they are doubtlessly found there.
Cue the Brave shills “recommending” to switch to Brave in 5…4…3…
Wait what’s wrong with Brave?
Brave is by a company who’s in the business of serving ads.
Much like google was back in the day, they’re trying to obtain market share with a product that they can easily manipulate after the fact and rely on people not jumping ship as things get progressively worse and worse bit by bit
Think of the “approved ads” era followed by the “enhanced security features” which made it so your block list couldn’t be updated at a moments notice and now it’s being stripped entirely.
Better to avoid it entirely and just use Firefox or a derivative thereof
It’s not firefox
Firefox doesn’t have tab groups on mobile
You may have a browsing addiction if you need tab groups on mobile, wow…
I swear I hate tabbed browsing, because it leads to people hording tabs like a freaking squirrel hordes nuts.
If you need it for later, book mark it.
If you’re done with it close it.
This doesn’t work when I have memory issues. That tab is open as part of my external system of memory for myself so I know what I was trying to do before one of my several issues prevented me finishing.
Bookmarks in mobile Firefox is another issue. Bookmark management is a massive chore. I end up keeping tabs around a lot longer in mobile just to avoid messing with it.
On desktop Firefox with the Bookmark Tab Here extension (native functionality I missed from Chrome), bookmarking and organizing a new page is just two clicks. I use that workflow extensively. Apparently I have over 7000 bookmarks all organized that way.
7000 bookmarks
… Whoa… of what, out of morbid curiosity?
I’ve started using Karakeep for this. If I haven’t used a tab in a while but want it to stick around, throw it to Karakeep, let ai tag it, then close that tab.
“People don’t use their browsers how I want REEEE!!!”
Added to nightly somewhat recently.
It’s still not pushed out to phones. I’m going to keep shit talking them until it’s actually out, because they’ve spent far too much time stringing them along
It is also chromium based, so stands to get the same nerf.
Yeap, just a matter of time.
Nope, Shields are built into the browser itself, not as an extension which uses those APIs. [1]
I would argue that if you’re choosing between chrome and brave, brave is still better.
Sure. Probably. But why are we choosing between Chrome and Brave?
People entirely blind to the idea that they can just choose something else instead of 2 piles of shit, one of which has a cherry on top and was sprayed with perfume recently.
Its like some sort of awful american tradition at this point.
Is a two party system not capable of approptiately responding to the needs of the people within it?
On iOS you can go on pornhub on brave and it blocks all the ads and cookie popups.
That’s one reason that uh… “someone” might use brave.
Orion also blocks ads on iOS and isn’t backed by Thiel, run by Eich or an ad business startup masquerading as an ad blocking browser.
Ok i will look
For a lot of people, it’s an easy transition.
DDG, Vivaldi, etc. harder transitions.
Firefox for my parents would result in calls every 3 days for sites that aren’t working right.
I’m just saying perfect is the enemy of good.
Firefox for my parents would result in calls every 3 days for sites that aren’t working right.
Very difficult to believe. I have had issues with Firefox over the years but in every single instance it was a result of my custom setup. The browser has no major compatibility issues out of the box. I think it’s way more likely your parents are technologically illiterate and confuse other problems or gaps in their knowledge as issues with the “new” thing (in this case, the browser).
I rarely encounter sites that don’t work with Firefox. I’d be surprised if it’s even 1 per month.
When that happens, then I just end up opening it in a different browser. I can’t actually remember the last time I’ve needed to do so.
Firefox for my parents would result in calls every 3 days for sites that aren’t working right.
Sorry, what? If they are so tech-illiterate that they have to call you and ask why the website is not working, then what kind of web sites are they visiting?
Been using FF since 2022 and the only sites that wont work are the ones that utilizes HID. Are your parents trying to flash custom firmware for their phones though browser every third day?
Good for you. I’ve been in tech for over 16 years and FF absolutely does not work well on ~25% of websites.
Been in tech longer then that (if for some reason we are doing that now) and I will officially call bullshit on that claim.
Wanna link those websites so we can see?
Wait, really? The access cripplers are crazily powerful add-ons for the paranoid, like NoScript, not the browser itself. Like what example websites, specifically?
I get it that tech people stumble upon these sites much more often than non-techies. My point was that if your parents are having website issues every other day (which implies they are not tech-savvy), then why would they even visit sites that are not FF-compatible. How many sites out of all the web do you think are not compatible with FF? Give an example of a normie site that wont work well with FF.
On the other hand, if your parents are tech-savvy then why would they ask you why a website wont load properly? Do you get it that your statement counters itself?
What sites are those?
Websites that are actively malicious against firefox, that miraculously work when you have a useragent plugin that makes firefox report that its chrome proving that the site works fine, if the asshole code is removed?
I think this is when @AlecSadler@lemmy.dbzer0.com will discreetly not answer or otherwise avoid mentioning the exact websites… (Because there are none)
Yup mostly because I don’t care anymore. You’re all stating the, “it works on my machine” mantra and I don’t care. See my other comments for some examples.
It’s true, unfortunately. Not every 3 days, but once a month I encount these sites.
calls every 3 days for sites that aren’t working right
Sir, 2000s called and asked you to return this argument back.
Change the icon on the desktop to the chrome pinwheel and they’ll never know the difference.
After seeing all the people talking about Vivaldi in this thread I figured I’d try it out…got to the “Panel” setup page, saw there’s one for reddit, maybe I’ll try adding lemmy.zip…
Failed Cloudflare check in panel, but it worked in a tab…okay, weird.
Thought about checking out Kagi since now privacy is on my mind…the front page would reload every 5 seconds so I couldn’t read about it. It’d say “Verification failed please try again” and refresh.
Apparently this has been an issue with Vivaldi for some time? I guess this is the future of the web? You try to escape the claws of these giant internet powerhouses and they just…don’t let you?
Because Firefox is a different engine and might not work well with certain websites.
I’ve only ever encountered one website where Firefox didnt work.
and that was because the website was coded maliciously to reject firefox… a plugin to make it think firefox was chrome and suddenly it ran fine.
Couldn’t use just set the user agent?
Firefox doesn’t support WebHID, so I can forget about configuring my custom keyboard with anything other than a Chromium based browser.
Keyboard setup would be a system level setting, no?
Well I did, the Amazon Prime Video has many weird behaviors on Firefox compared to the Chromium engine, even YouTube used to have before.
Any web developer knows it isn’t as simple as “code once, work everywhere”. If companies don’t test on Firefox (which is a reality nowadays given its small market share) bugs happen in very weird and unusual ways.
Only issue I’ve ever had with Amazon Video was the fact they artificially limit resolution to 320p for people on linux, regardless of browser.
I consider that a website problem, not a me problem. I choose what I do on the internet, the internet doesn’t dictate the software I use.
My real issue is as a dev of a web application, using Firefox makes things occasionally render differently. It’s only once in a blue moon but enough to make me just accept using Vivaldi to be closer to the defacto user experience. And then I can’t be bothered to switch between FF (I use Zen) and Vivaldi and split my bookmarks, extensions, logins etc. it just doesn’t make sense.
Brave has a certain distasteful reputation earned by repeated unethical fuckery. If you are fine with what brave does, you have no reason to avoid chrome in the first place.
So Brave is a good answer to an absolutely terrible question?
Nothing.
Firefox and its derivatives (and Safari - sorry Apple users) are the only browsers not using Google’s Blink web engine these days - at least until Ladybird is released.
Despite the Mozilla Foundation’s many stupid decisions, Firefox (and Safari) is starting to look like the only thing stopping Google from completely controlling the internet.
Librewolf gang rise up
LibreWolf user since a few months ago.
Has the Librewolf team developed a mobile fork yet?
Whether you use Firefox or Librewolf you are entirely dependent on the hundreds of full timer developers Mozilla’s got working on the Gecko codebase.
How does it compare to Firefox?
librewolf broke too many websites for me to reasonably keep using it :(
also just keep in mind: it’s lack of a fingerprint now becomes the fingerprint.
That’s been the better browser since 2008 though.
When will marketing people figure out our generation views ads as hostile, non-consensual, and unwanted? They are a negative way to introduce us to your product/service. I actively avoid things with obnoxious ads. Native, old spice, liberty mutual, all of those brands the first thing that comes to mind is the negative experience of an invasive advertisement I never fucking asked for.
When will marketing people figure out our generation views ads as hostile, non-consensual, and unwanted?
Who knows. I was at the beach this past weekend and there were two different planes flying ad banners in front of me.
What the fuck. That’s two different local businesses that I have noted I will actively avoid.
Can’t even unplug and face a clear sky without getting ads shoved in your fucking face.
Ads aren’t always there to get you to buy something specific. In fact, an ad you don’t interact with is a better ad because they don’t have to pay for click-through.
You don’t want to buy brand A because they have ads, so you buy brand B instead, but both widgets are owned by the same holding company. Or they’re made in the same factory. Or they use the same components. Or they have the same shareholders. Any way you slice it, the same rich assholes are getting your money.
The goal of the Ads is to put a bug in your head and get you to buy something.
And that’s just the Ads. The tracking is also (increasingly primarily) about political manipulation and surveillance.
Pretty sure all generations feel the same way.
IMHO all of our advertising talent died in 9/11. Ads used to be a lot cooler, funnier, and higher effort during the days of antenna broadcast television.
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It doesn’t matter how we view them as long as they work.
They dont
Apparently not, as ads keep selling.
I hate to sound so cynical, but many folks are gullible. They’ll trust a flashy ad because it looks nice to them, and gives them a positive emotional response, and then internalize that judgement as their own decision (so when someone comes to challenge it, they take it personally).
It’s not just old people living in another time, either. I’ve watched teenagers and young adults trust obviously-sponsored influencers like they’re friends. Or wear brands as status symbols.
They’re too busy milking the boomers for now (and even then, the smart ones also despise ads already)
What generation?
Great… I work in IT so this means MORE “virus” calls because you 100000000% need an adblocker on the web to stop those fake “your computer is being hacked” malicious advertisements from websites.
Time to polish those presentation skills and deliver a memo to your company, extolling the virtues of Firefox as a company-wide browser instead of the now malware inducing Chrome, Opera, and Edge.
Wont happen. Security teams will block it still. Firefox blocks deep packet inspection which corporate security suites use for monitoring. Its the reason chrome is the default now in almost all companies.
The FBI has publicly recommended the use of ad-blockers as a security measure.
How about SRWare Iron?
It’s corporate backed, so security may view it favorably over FOSS forks like Helium or Ungoogled Chromium.
There’s a whole slew of Chromium forks that I think are trying to preserve V2 functionality.
Just use Firefox (or Zen Browser, which is a nice fork of Firefox)
Zen Browser, which is a nice fork of Firefox
I wouldn’t trust something as important and complex as a browser to what’s essentially a 1 man project.
I in turn wouldn’t call a project with 221 contributors a 1 man project :D
Commit history where you see the number of commits per developer tells a different story.
I mean, he is the main person working on the project, yeah. But someone has to take the lead. When I followed the project at the start, there were many people involved with new features and I also don’t have much negative to say about Zen, for me it works fine.
Fair enough, you do what works for you.
I checked it out like, mid 2025 or so? Thought it looked somewhat cool, but within a week I was already hit with a few breaking changes and just things being changed around in the UI for no good reason, and the dev seemed to be just implementing things on the whims of what people were saying in the r/zen_browser subreddit. Also it seemed to be making a lot of big promises, but the big change seemed to be that the tabs were now … on the left, and a couple of saner privacy presets in
about:configthat I was already setting in myuser.jsfile.Anyway, I do consider how a project is governed before I adopt an important piece of software. I’m fine with a one-man show for something as cute and small as a terminal emulator or an editor, but a browser is a different thing.
With it being a firefox fork, and not an independent project, and knowing that browser engines are complex things and that it is always going to be a constant struggle to keep it up-to-date and integrated with the changes pouring out of mozilla.org, the conclusion I drew was that it didn’t feel like the best run project, and that I probably shouldn’t put my eggs in that particular basket, waiting for the single dev to burn out or lose interest in it.
Jesus… how many devs does it take to do a 1 man project? /s
Waterfox
I counter with IronFox! Lol I just enjoy all the alternativeFox options
I use ironfox on my phone and librewolf on my desktop.
And all the forks die if Firefox does.
I could also say “and all forks of chromium die, if it dies”.
I don’t see Firefox dieing any time soon. And the more people use and support Firefox or any fork, the lower the chance of it actually happening.
The enshittification is going on overdrive I see…
People will *anything *except use FireFox
