Highlights: A study this summer found that using a single gas stove burner on high can raise levels of cancer-causing benzene above what’s been observed from secondhand smoke.

A new investigation by NPR and the Climate Investigations Center found that the gas industry tried to downplay the health risks of gas stoves for decades, turning to many of the same public-relations tactics the tobacco industry used to cover up the risks of smoking. Gas utilities even hired some of the same PR firms and scientists that Big Tobacco did.

Earlier this year, an investigation from DeSmog showed that the industry understood the hazards of gas appliances as far back as the 1970s and concealed what they knew from the public.

It’s a strategy that goes back as far back as 1972, according to the most recent investigation. That year, the gas industry got advice from Richard Darrow, who helped manufacture controversy around the health effects of smoking as the lead for tobacco accounts at the public relations firm Hill + Knowlton. At an American Gas Association conference, Darrow told utilities they needed to respond to claims that gas appliances were polluting homes and shape the narrative around the issue before critics got the chance. Scientists were starting to discover that exposure to nitrogen dioxide—a pollutant emitted by gas stoves—was linked to respiratory illnesses. So Darrow advised utilities to “mount the massive, consistent, long-range public relations programs necessary to cope with the problems.”

These studies didn’t just confuse the public, but also the federal government. When the Environmental Protection Agency assessed the health effects of nitrogen dioxide pollution in 1982, its review included five studies finding no evidence of problems—four of which were funded by the gas industry, the Climate Investigations Center recently uncovered.

Karen Harbert, the American Gas Association’s CEO, acknowledged that the gas industry has “collaborated” with researchers to “inform and educate regulators about the safety of gas cooking appliances.” Harbert claimed that the available science “does not provide sufficient or consistent evidence demonstrating chronic health hazards from natural gas ranges”—a line that should sound familiar by now.

  • Labototmized@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Technology connections informed me of this long ago! And it makes perfect sense. But almost every house I go in has a gas stove because apparently people think it’s better or nicer or “more professional” or whatever.

    • janNatan@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      I find this crazy. I live in SE USA and I’ve never even seen a gas stove outside of camping. When everyone was “freaking out” online about the gas stove ban, I was just confused.

      • Labototmized@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Haha! I go in about three houses per day for work and the majority will have gas. Also SE US. Although I’ve never had one in the places I’ve lived so if not for work I’d never have seen them either.

        • bradorsomething@ttrpg.network
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          1 year ago

          There’s a certain wealth line where they all have gas stoves. Look up the Wolf 6-burner gas range. Not something you find in a 3-2 home.

        • janNatan@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          I grew up in a rural area, hence the no gas. I now live in a metro area and maybe it’s just my friends, but I’ve really never seen one. They always sounded dangerous to me.

          • SheeEttin@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Outside of this (and the utility fucking up, sending too much pressure, and blowing up a bunch of houses) they’re perfectly safe. Millions of homes around the world have gas service and incidents are very rare.

            But given the health implications of just normal operation, I’m still not going to get a gas stove in the future.

          • pirat@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            I’m just here to let you know that in some rural areas, bottled gas is/was the viable solution.

        • TopRamenBinLaden@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          I think this is mostly because it is what cooks are used to. The ones who go to culinary school learned on gas stoves, and the ones who learned on the job also mostly learned on gas stoves.

          Gas stoves aren’t the best option anymore. Induction stoves heat up much quicker and offer much finer heat control, but they are a bit more expensive, and many of the cooks would have to relearn how to make some of the stuff they are used to cooking.

          So not only is it what cooks are used to, but it would require an investment from the restaurant that most aren’t willing to look into. Gas stoves last for many many years, so it’s not like they break down and need replacing regularly, either.

    • RampantParanoia2365@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      It’s just nicer to cook on gas. Electric is a pain in the ass and generally less efficient time-wise. Induction apparently solves a lot of issues, though.

      • bufordt@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        Even old school electric burners typically heat water to boiling faster than gas.

        Gas is more responsive, but induction comes close. Some of the new induction burners have fake flames to indicate how high the output is visually.

    • GBU_28@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      Well it is “better”, but it isn’t (as this article highlights) better.

      • Labototmized@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Do they? I’d check out Technology Connections videos on the subject. A couple more seconds to boil water is worth not inhaling whatever junk byproducts of combustion.

        • azertyfun@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          Induction is cheap as shit nowadays, and faster, so no-one should install new gas stoves. When renovating I ripped out my gas line.

          HOWEVER I completely disagree with Alec on resistive electric stoves being “fine”. They’re terrible. They have ENORMOUS thermal inertia. He says “just move the pan off the heater”, but that doesn’t take into account that just getting a pan to the correct temperature is much harder on resistive electric. It takes forever to heat up an empty pan, but if you wait until the food is cooking to turn down the heat, it’s already too late and your food will be overcooked. Frying an egg is the worst, by the time that the pan is hot you gotta kill the heat entirely or the egg will be burnt so there is no margin for adjustment. Ugh. With induction it’s so much easier, you can just adjust the heat based on how the egg is frying and the pan will actually cool down or heat up enough that the egg will come out alright.

          I mean sure depending on ventilation and personal opinions on air quality then resistive may be favorable over gas, but if I’m honest, if induction didn’t exist I’d probably take my chances with cancer.

          • daltotron@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            You know I wonder to what extent that is about people having old electric stoves that have bang on bang off resistive electric coils rather than like, a tuned consistent current coil that heats up and stays hot at a temperature. Cause the bang on bang off coil is probably going to have more thermal inertia, or, you’d want more thermal inertia, for a more consistent heat. I dunno about the thermal inertia of the coil in general, though, I’ve definitely cooked on shitty enough electric stoves that just an egg, butter, and a nonstick pan will cook for like 3 seconds, go back to being off for a minute, and then the coil will heat up and cook the egg for another 3 seconds, which is fuckin crazy, that shit blows.

            • 9point6@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              I’m not particularly on any side of this discussion, but gas is a lot more responsive in terms of temperature changes than a resistive hob.

              You can go from full to lowest and that change will apply to the pan pretty much immediately. As the other person said, there’s thermal inertia with the element of a resistive hob, it’s going to take a bit of time to cool to a lower temperature

            • lightnsfw@reddthat.com
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              1 year ago

              You don’t see how turning down a gas burner will lower the temperature in a pan faster than waiting for a red hot spiral of metal to cool off?

        • GBU_28@lemm.ee
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          Boiling water isn’t what id try to sell a gas stove on. If you’re a hobbyist cook you develop hobbyist, non essential task opinions.

          I bet 95% of people could happily use electric and never even wonder about alternatives.

          The last 5 want the features and cook pans used with gas, to get the hobbyist results they are after.

          To that I say go for it, but be aware of the risks.

          • NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
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            1 year ago

            Limited sample size, but Technology Connections did a great video where gas wasn’t even particularly better at boiling water. It looks like it should be because FIRE, but you get into a mess of needing to very carefully match pots to burners.

            Also, look in to an electric kettle for water. Even a shitty american voltage kettle is awesome relative to putting a kettle on the stove.

            • GBU_28@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              For discussion, I always use an electric kettle to start water for pasta and similar.

              I also love TC and have seen this video.

              The hobbyist cook angle is qualitative though, if a home cook wants to emulate restaurant style there’s just no comparison.

              • pirat@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                For acknowledgement, I always do the same thing with the kettle.

                I also love TC, and have seen this one too!

                And, if that wasn’t enough, I even agree with you on the last part.

                Now, what do we discuss?

                • GBU_28@lemm.ee
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                  1 year ago

                  I am comfortable arguing about any topic of your choice. I won’t let the possibility of my not being familiar with it reduce our sport.

              • NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
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                1 year ago

                Eh. Unless you ACTUALLY get a restaurant grade set up (not just the expensive stuff with Bobby Flay branding), that tend to actually need real range hoods and so forth, you are, at best, cosplaying being a restaurant chef. At the consumer grade, the BTU differences are mostly a matter of branding over technology. And the responsiveness is almost universally beat by induction.

                Don’t get me wrong. I am a sicko with a propane burner in his backyard for when I want to make a night out of my stir fry (or season some cast iron/carbon steel).

                But I’ve had gas burners and electric burners over the decades and have even had the opportunity to cook in restaurant kitchens on occasion (the joys of being friends with people having millennial weddings…).

                • Consumer grade? Electric and gas are more or less interchangeable. I feel fancier when I have a gas burner but I also end up sweating a lot more and don’t want to cook in the summer
                • The usual reason given for why electric is bad is that it is horrible for “wok hei”. Ignoring the hilarity of right wing chuds suddenly caring about east asian cuisne, “wok hei” is mostly a Cantonese thing and generally involves actually igniting some of the cooking oil which should only ever be done outside with a fire extinguisher nearby. What woks DO need is very high heat so as to fry, rather than steam, the ingredients. But… that is resolved by just cooking in batches. That is WHY home chefs should keep a resting (or even mise en place) bowl nearby. Cook a component, swap it out with the next. Or, if you are in bachelor mode, just do it all at once. Just don’t put the entire atomic family meal in the wok at the same time until the very end.
                • Gas in a restaurant is FUN. Although it is mostly about just heating pans ridiculously fast (and being drenched in sweat even in the winter…). Incredibly easy to burn just about anything, but it is also really nice that I can overcrowd the hell out of my pan or wok and barely notice.
                • I do not believe electric will ever be viable for a restaurant kitchen. Well, maybe if they adopt a model of always keeping pans on the burners and adding ingredients as needed but…
                • I think, with a bit of tweaking, induction can be VERY viable and have almost all the same properties as “restaurant gas”. With maybe the exception of giving you an open flame to char something but… I’ve always felt weird about doing that with a gas flame?
                • When I eventually have to replace my electric stove, I am going induction.
        • theragu40@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Speed to boil water is not at all the selling point of gas.

          It’s speed and precision of temperature control.

          Coils stay hot. When you turn the gas off, the heat is off RIGHT NOW. When you turn it on it’s on RIGHT NOW.

          Many coils pulse full heat to simulate different heat levels. Gas gives you very precise control over exact heat levels and it is instantly responsive to change.

          I’m not here to argue about the possible health concerns, I don’t know anything about that and would need to read more. But people who argue electric ranges are just as effective as gas simply haven’t cooked as much. I’m certain of this because I used to think that too until I switched to gas. Gas is plainly better.

          I’ve heard great things about induction and maybe that’s the way I’ll go next. Not sure yet. I’m certainly curious.

      • NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
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        1 year ago

        Induction stoves get cheaper and cheaper every year.

        Also? It is mostly just the old exposed metal coil resistive stoves that were horrible. You know, the one we all had growing up where you had to poke the coil with a fork until it made connection again so that it would heat up.

        Pretty much any glass top resistive electric stove (so anything made in the past two decades or so?) is fine. Very easy to clean, much less prone to damage, and gets pretty hot pretty fast. You aren’t getting “wok hei” for all the cantonese stir frying you do but… you aren’t getting that with a gas stove either unless you have an ACTUAL restaurant setup (no, not just the expensive options at the Lowes) which tend to have very specific ventilation requirements too… If you want to go all out with your wok, get an outdoor propane burner.

        Now, I do actually think the drawback to resistive heating staying hot is a lot bigger than “just pick up the pot”. Not when I am making a weeknight meal for myself. But when I am cooking a larger meal for a date night or having friends over and am using multiple burners? I don’t really have anywhere to put the pot. But that is also incredibly “first world problems” of “I have too much food”

        • Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          I actually prefer the coils. The glass-top ones are never as easy to clean as they claim, and the glass between the burner and the pot reduces heat transfer and causes them to heat up even slower. With the coil-type the pot is resting on the heater, which means maximum heat transfer via conduction.

          Another problem is that the cooktop stays very hot after you take it off the heat. With gas and induction the heat stops instantly, but I’ve burned a lot of food because I misjudged how long it takes for a resistive burner to cool down. And the glass tops are again worse because they have a lot more thermal mass than a coil.

          Induction solves all of these problems, though. Heat is controllable and instant, and the cooktop cools down very quickly.

          • Eheran@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            The glass in-between makes them heat up much faster, it is the whole point actually. It is IR transparent, so only the heating element itself has to heat up to get things started. Then only a bit of insulation (next to no mass) has to heat up to get things to nearly 100 %.

            I have also never heard or seen this glass being harder to clean than any other type of stove, which are a pain to clean in comparison.

            • SheeEttin@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              The glass is definitely more of a pain to clean. It’s easy enough to get stuff off, but visually you can see any streaks or missed corners much more than an enamel stovetop.

      • jordanlund@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        It is getting better, we got ours for a little more than $1,000, but electric stoves are dirt cheap. 1/3rd to 1/2 the price.

      • surewhynotlem@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        suck ass

        I always blame my tools when I have no experience using them.

        They’re different. You’ll be fine.

        • °˖✧ ipha ✧˖°@lemm.ee
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          I do have experience with gas, induction, and traditional electric and can say with confidence that cooking on traditional electric sucks ass. Induction is good though and I’d say it’s on par with gas if you have the right pans.

              • GBU_28@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                You scratching that across that glass?

                Also you can’t lift it.

                Fully agree induction is great for 95% of needs.

                My ideal kitchen would have both (and does lol), with a big vent and a big window.

                • yata@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 year ago

                  Cast iron is perfectly fine on induction. And no you wont scratch the glass with it. And yes you can lift it.

                  • GBU_28@lemm.ee
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                    1 year ago

                    You absolutely can, I’ve done it to my own. There are countless articles and videos showing you can use it, but should be careful.

                    If you lift it out of the induction field you lose the heating.

                    For these reasons it isn’t ideal and other pans, with a stationary cooking style are preferred on glass.

        • Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social
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          Resistance electric stoves can only get to about 1600 degrees. Gas stoves get to well over 3400. You can’t get a good a sear out of resistance electric, and water takes forever to boil.

          My next stove is going to be induction, though I will have a propane burner for when I really need to char something.

          And I’m sure you’ll be horrified to know that I have a charcoal grill like some kind of caveman.

          • OutlierBlue@lemmy.ca
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            You use the charcoal grill outside where the fumes easily disperse. A gas stove releases the pollution directly into your living space, where it hangs around. They’re not comparable.

    • LemmyIsFantastic@lemmy.world
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      Acklutally, up until recently gas has been far cheaper than induction. It was leagues better than electric. Even today unless you are spending a lot more on a new stove and probably upping running costs; it’s expensive to move to conduction when gas stoves last for basically forever. It’s also quite regional to natural gas areas where it’s been cheaper than electricity.

      If you want to sear meat at high temps, a powerful gas stove is still today going to outperform a induction.

      • Troooop@lemmy.world
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        I was curious about temps, according to this induction gets much hotter than gas. Wouldn’t that be much better for searing?

      • Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social
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        Gas stoves usually show up in colder places where homes would be heated with gas, and in older cities. 240V electricity was dangerous early on, and homes were usually already hooked up to gas networks for heating.

      • yata@sh.itjust.works
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        If you want to sear meat at high temps, a powerful gas stove is still today going to outperform a induction.

        Nope, that is a myth.

        • LemmyIsFantastic@lemmy.world
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          I’ve done plenty of my own testing on several mid range from 200 up to 600 and even a few full units on 250/40/50 circuits. None of them were as hot, in even half the time to get up to 700f especially on a double burner range. The cheaper 1500w portables many times didn’t even make it to 700. Being more efficient is not my concern.

          Beyond that, I’m still left with gas for using the oven vs electric, and is more efficient.

      • cantsurf@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        I’ve lived in places with gas stoves and with electric stoves. I vastly prefer gas stoves. Just open a window or use the exhaust fan. I don’t see a problem. Gas is currently way cheaper than electricity where I live.

          • CraigeryTheKid@lemm.ee
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            Ok I had a similar question, but DID read the article.

            I was also wondering if using an external-exhaust hood vent helped, because it sounds like it would. You’d think it would pull the NO2 outside and reduce exposure.

          • cantsurf@lemm.ee
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            I did read the article. What point are you trying to make? I concede that gas stoves do generate potentially harmful combustion byproducts but in my opinion, adequate ventilation minimizes the health risks.

          • Nurgle@lemmy.world
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            Did you? They don’t mention whether or not ventilation mitigates the effects.

            • tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip
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              This NPR article mentions ventilation:

              “Benzene forms in flames and other high-temperature environments, such as the flares found in oil fields and refineries. We now know that benzene also forms in the flames of gas stoves in our homes,” said Rob Jackson in a statement. He’s the study’s senior author and a Stanford professor of earth sciences.

              With one burner on high or the oven at 350 degrees, the researchers found benzene levels in a house can be worse than average levels for second-hand tobacco smoke. And they found the toxin doesn’t just stay in the kitchen, it can migrate to other places, such as bedrooms.

              “Good ventilation helps reduce pollutant concentrations, but we found that exhaust fans were often ineffective at eliminating benzene exposure,” Jackson said.