Saudi Arabia’s top diplomat says the kingdom will not normalize relations with Israel or contribute to Gaza’s reconstruction without a credible path to a Palestinian state.
I mean that kind of happened already. There’s a reason why the United States has the second highest Jewish population in the world, less only than Israel and not by much. Rampant anti semitisim in Europe among other reasons drove many to emigrate to the US. Between 1880 and 1914 alone, 2 million Ashkenazi Jewish people immigrated to the United States to escape ethnic cleansing pogroms in Eastern Europe.
People in Palestine actually welcome them, and it is not Jew it is the Zainoist movement that were supported ( not sure who exactly gave them guns ) and started two organizations that committed multiple massacres before forming Israel.
These were already after Zionists were already moving to the land in droves and trying to set up the Israeli state. That’s like saying the Native Americans were violent anti-Americans for attacking settler colonies during the Wild West. The process of displacement and settler colonialism was already way underway by that time and seen in real time by the local. Rather than give them their own state as promised after WWI, Britain instead not only kept Palestine, but used it so all the antisemitic European countries had somewhere to put their Jews. Revisionist Zionists happily accepted this arrangement and once they had the numbers, started setting up terrorist and paramilitary groups and prepping for their future state.
But Jewish immigration has been happening for awhile before the violence had started, and during that time, relations between the groups were almost entirely peaceful and accepting. Keep in mind that migrations were happening in the 1800’s and even earlier, way before your Wikipedia time line starts.
The majority of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi Jews who fled to Israel after almost all of them, some 850,000 in total, were expelled or pressured out of Muslim-majority Middle Eastern countries from 1948 through the 1950s. About 72% (650,000) settled in Israel.
Mizrahi is a modern term used to erase the European origin of many Jewish communities living in the former Ottoman empire.
This argument is often used by Zionists to suggest that the majority of the modern Israeli population is made up of indigenous groups. This is not correct.
No that’s not what I meant. I’m blaming Zionists for the anti-semitism all Jews experience in the middle east. Because that’s exactly what happened; most Middle Eastern countries (including Ottoman Palestine) had Jews who could live peacefully before Zionists started their settler colonialism project. I’m not saying it’s justified, don’t get me wrong; it’s stupid and horrible and I sincerely believe the pogroms that happened in the Middle East at the time were unjustifiable atrocities. But, that doesn’t mean we should ignore the cause.
Uh… Zionists had 28 years before the founding of Israel to get everyone to hate Jews all they want. Remember that the militias that formed the IDF were terrorist organizations before that, and the whole “let’s create an Apartheid state in Palestine” thing was inherently pretty objectionable.
Commenter above you doesn’t know what they’re talking about. The reason why the United States has such a large Jewish population is they were escaping ethnic cleansing and anti semitisim in Europe. Not saying the United States is perfect by any means and no anti semitisim exists there, but yes increased tolerance is a principal reason why they were emigrating to the US.
It’s not as though I implied the US wants to send their Jewish population to concentration camps or something.
All I meant was that America is not the bastion of tolerance that their comment would suggest it is. I think that’s pretty obvious to anyone who reads the news.
It’s just a bit of a weird time to criticize the United States tolerance of Jewish people in a thread about “why didn’t they all move to America?” when in actuality millions of them did for exactly that reason. The improved tolerance in the United States in comparison to Europe throughout the 19th and 20th centuries is why they now have the largest Jewish population in the world second only to Israel. Not that the United States is perfect or shouldn’t keep working on improving tolerance of others by any means.
I don’t know enough about the subject to speculate about what an average American thought of Jewish immigrants - or any other immigrant population - during those centuries. I’m also neither American nor Jewish, so I can’t speak personally about the day-to-day reality of that relationship currently.
What modern news and history have to say about America’s tolerance level though… that is up for debate, and they tell a more complex story. While we’re considering dates, a relevant example may be that the United States only abolished slavery in the 1860s. I’ll grant you that speaks to the persecution of a different population, but I doubt the bigots who fought to preserve that ‘right’ during the American Civil War were choosy.
Please don’t misunderstand me; I don’t doubt that many Jewish people that emigrated to the United States have had better lives than they otherwise would have. I’m also not implying that the average American today is hateful or bigoted. I just don’t agree with the notion that the world would inherently be a better place if every Jewish person impacted by diaspora ended up in the United States specifically.
Oh absolutely, I did not mean to imply I agreed with that original poster that all Jewish people should have been forcibly emigrated to the United States or whatever bad take that was. I just thought it was bizarre they were saying “why didn’t this happen?” about Jewish people leaving for America when it literally did happen.
Imagine how much better the world would be if Jews migrated to the US instead of directly in the middle of people who hate them the most.
Zionism is a plague that is responsible for untold damage.
I mean that kind of happened already. There’s a reason why the United States has the second highest Jewish population in the world, less only than Israel and not by much. Rampant anti semitisim in Europe among other reasons drove many to emigrate to the US. Between 1880 and 1914 alone, 2 million Ashkenazi Jewish people immigrated to the United States to escape ethnic cleansing pogroms in Eastern Europe.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_United_States
People in Palestine actually welcome them, and it is not Jew it is the Zainoist movement that were supported ( not sure who exactly gave them guns ) and started two organizations that committed multiple massacres before forming Israel.
Hhmmmmmmmm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_and_massacres_in_Mandatory_Palestine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations_between_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Arab_world
These were already after Zionists were already moving to the land in droves and trying to set up the Israeli state. That’s like saying the Native Americans were violent anti-Americans for attacking settler colonies during the Wild West. The process of displacement and settler colonialism was already way underway by that time and seen in real time by the local. Rather than give them their own state as promised after WWI, Britain instead not only kept Palestine, but used it so all the antisemitic European countries had somewhere to put their Jews. Revisionist Zionists happily accepted this arrangement and once they had the numbers, started setting up terrorist and paramilitary groups and prepping for their future state.
But Jewish immigration has been happening for awhile before the violence had started, and during that time, relations between the groups were almost entirely peaceful and accepting. Keep in mind that migrations were happening in the 1800’s and even earlier, way before your Wikipedia time line starts.
Btw, some of these Zionist groups tried to coordinate with the Nazis, too. And they’ve never reconciled with that. One of them became prime minister, and Netanyahu has a figure of the founder of Lehi behind his desk, too.
The majority of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi Jews who fled to Israel after almost all of them, some 850,000 in total, were expelled or pressured out of Muslim-majority Middle Eastern countries from 1948 through the 1950s. About 72% (650,000) settled in Israel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world
The notion that Jewish Israelis are just Europeans is a profoundly racist and ignorant belief.
A couple notes:
Mizrahi is a modern term used to erase the European origin of many Jewish communities living in the former Ottoman empire.
This argument is often used by Zionists to suggest that the majority of the modern Israeli population is made up of indigenous groups. This is not correct.
Even if that’s true they certainly jumped on the settler colonialism bandwagon from Europe quick enough.
It’s not even that. Zionists caused the Middle East to hate Jews.
The only thing you’re actually saying here is that you’re not familiar with the history of the Middle East prior to about 1948.
Uh… We should be counting from 1917, and before that point anti-semitism in the Middle East wasn’t anything close to the point it is today.
Blaming Jews for the antisemitism they experience is antisemitism 101, buddy.
No that’s not what I meant. I’m blaming Zionists for the anti-semitism all Jews experience in the middle east. Because that’s exactly what happened; most Middle Eastern countries (including Ottoman Palestine) had Jews who could live peacefully before Zionists started their settler colonialism project. I’m not saying it’s justified, don’t get me wrong; it’s stupid and horrible and I sincerely believe the pogroms that happened in the Middle East at the time were unjustifiable atrocities. But, that doesn’t mean we should ignore the cause.
Zionists does not equal Jews. There are plenty of Jews who aren’t Zionists and lots of Zionists who aren’t Jewish.
Yeah, nah. Their neighbors declared war on Israel the literal moment Israel was founded. They hadn’t even had time to piss anyone off.
Because the very creation of Israel was a settler colonialist state ethnically cleansing the local population.
I would say their neighbours had plenty to be pissed off about.
Uh… Zionists had 28 years before the founding of Israel to get everyone to hate Jews all they want. Remember that the militias that formed the IDF were terrorist organizations before that, and the whole “let’s create an Apartheid state in Palestine” thing was inherently pretty objectionable.
Nah uh! Recorded History starts in 1947!
Ah yes, the United States; famously a leading example of tolerance and acceptance for everyone. /s
? Look at how we accommodate Mormons.
Mormonism (as I’m sure you already know) started in America during the 1820s.
Commenter above you doesn’t know what they’re talking about. The reason why the United States has such a large Jewish population is they were escaping ethnic cleansing and anti semitisim in Europe. Not saying the United States is perfect by any means and no anti semitisim exists there, but yes increased tolerance is a principal reason why they were emigrating to the US.
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It’s not as though I implied the US wants to send their Jewish population to concentration camps or something.
All I meant was that America is not the bastion of tolerance that their comment would suggest it is. I think that’s pretty obvious to anyone who reads the news.
It’s just a bit of a weird time to criticize the United States tolerance of Jewish people in a thread about “why didn’t they all move to America?” when in actuality millions of them did for exactly that reason. The improved tolerance in the United States in comparison to Europe throughout the 19th and 20th centuries is why they now have the largest Jewish population in the world second only to Israel. Not that the United States is perfect or shouldn’t keep working on improving tolerance of others by any means.
I don’t know enough about the subject to speculate about what an average American thought of Jewish immigrants - or any other immigrant population - during those centuries. I’m also neither American nor Jewish, so I can’t speak personally about the day-to-day reality of that relationship currently.
What modern news and history have to say about America’s tolerance level though… that is up for debate, and they tell a more complex story. While we’re considering dates, a relevant example may be that the United States only abolished slavery in the 1860s. I’ll grant you that speaks to the persecution of a different population, but I doubt the bigots who fought to preserve that ‘right’ during the American Civil War were choosy.
Please don’t misunderstand me; I don’t doubt that many Jewish people that emigrated to the United States have had better lives than they otherwise would have. I’m also not implying that the average American today is hateful or bigoted. I just don’t agree with the notion that the world would inherently be a better place if every Jewish person impacted by diaspora ended up in the United States specifically.
Oh absolutely, I did not mean to imply I agreed with that original poster that all Jewish people should have been forcibly emigrated to the United States or whatever bad take that was. I just thought it was bizarre they were saying “why didn’t this happen?” about Jewish people leaving for America when it literally did happen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_United_States
Fair enough, maybe just a miscommunication between us then. I appreciate the respectful discussion either way.
We didn’t for a good while…