If anything, RFK will split the Republican (Russian) vote
This author is a dipshit
I don’t know this author, but when I see articles like this I always think it’s a reverse Hanlon’s razor. I refuse to believe the people reporting on it are stupid and assume they’re fucking evil.
I said this in another post, but i believe older democrats who dont keep up with the nonsense of politics could very well just see the name Kennedy and vote for him. If we werent in a very red state i would be worried about my grandfather in his 80s doing exactly that.
That isn’t what polling shows.
Polls dont show anything good. They’re a pr stunt at best.
Whereas your non-polling-evidence-based feeling is legit.
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RFK Jr. is a piece of dog shit drying in the hot summer sun. I can’t imagine in any universe this guy (who makes me wish there was a Sirhan Sirhan Jr.) draining votes from Joe Biden when their views are diametrically opposed.
Really, really low-information voters might see the last name and think he’s like JFK.
A shocking amount of Republican antics suddenly made sense to me when I realized they’re just targeting low-information voters.
When was that, when Trump said “I love the poorly educated”?
His little off-script comments are always interesting to me, because they give insight to what he’s thinking.
We all already knew that stuff though. It’s not like when he says this shit out loud it’s something we didn’t already deduce quite easily.
That’s most of his base.
RFK is the wish.com JFK.
I support Kennedy. RFK’s sister, who said she’ll vote for Biden over her own brother. lol
I believe the latest polls show Bobby Kennedy Jr. taking slightly more support from Trump. It makes sense. In order to support Kennedy, you have to listen to him first.
The conspiracy theorist label stops the left from even considering him. The voters who are more likely to give him a chance are on the right. They don’t care if he’s called a conspiracy theorist.
I think it’s a mix that varies state from state based off the latest polling.
Could be, but it’s likely to tend toward Trump voters as time goes on. They’re less resistant to someone being unpopular in the mainstream media.
Being called crazy by the media is a prerequisite for right wing viewers to trust a candidate.
now that he’s made a decision, it really just takes one look at who his running mate is that would cause any Leftist to walk away.
Idk he really appeals to my desire to have a stupider, less popular trump. And he’s a Kennedy!
/s, because this is the internet
Vote Blue No Matter Who! /s
They run this same story about third party candidates every election year. The problem is they never show that the people who voted for the third party candidate would’ve definitely gone to one party or the other. People know what’s at stake, why do you assume people voting for RFK Jr would’ve voted for Biden? There’s nothing about his platform that is very left leaning. The most left leaning thing about him is his last name.
Edit: Just as an example, I voted for Nader in 2000. I’m someone who would’ve voted for Gore otherwise. But guess what? I was voting in a state that wasn’t in close contention at all, so I could vote for a third party without really changing the calculus of who would get elected. The idea that votes for third parties are fungible with votes for major party candidates is just not accurate.
Because it’s true every time, and it works a lot. Gore would have won if Nader wasn’t on the ticket, and guess what? The Republicans have been propping up third-party candidates for years.
Hell, in Florida they got some random dude on the ticket just because he had the same name as the Democrat – and it worked.
Intuitively it doesn’t even make sense in this case though. Biden is running as the safe ordinary establishment candidate. Trump and RFK Jr are going for the right wing wacko conspiracy theory crowd.
Unless I see data to the contrary, I’m going to assume that RFK Jr siphons more votes from Trump.
I know several people that have fallen for his bullshit who voted for Biden last time.
Pollsters do ask “if the election was held today, between X and Y, who would you vote for”, for multiple combinations of candidates, so you can infer some of those opinions. I don’t think they explicitly ask people to rank their choices, or at least I haven’t seen those polls.
Well, there were a certain number of disaffected Sanders primary voters that switched to Trump when Clinton “won” the primary in 2016. It’s hard to believe, given how diametrically opposed Sanders and Trump are, but there it is. Why would they go from a moderate candidate to a far right one? I don’t know, and it’s really hard to pin down in the data.
That’s kind of the problem we have now. Why would someone that was a Biden supporter flip to RFK, when RFK is very clearly significantly to the right, and way off in crazy-land compared to Biden? I don’t know. But given how likely Trump supporters are to show up, Biden really can’t afford to lose too many to RFK. Or West, for that matter, who is closer to what I’d prefer politically.
Well, there were a certain number of disaffected Sanders primary voters that switched to Trump when Clinton “won” the primary in 2016.
I feel compelled to point out—because a certain subset of people continue to blame progressives for Trump’s 2016 win—that in the 2008 election, 25% of Clinton’s primary supporters voted McCain in the general.*
*See table on page 9
The problem is the people running the DNC
At some point, we’re going to have to make an actual left wing party. Because the only thing the national DNC cares about is money
They don’t even know how to spend it effectively when they get it.
Socialist Party of America, Socialist Alternative, The Communist Party of the USA, and plenty others have been trying to run left of the Democratic Party for a century, it won’t work in a FPTP voting system, converting the Democrats into a Socialist party would literally be easier.
If you want a left wing party other than the Dems, you’re gonna have to change FPTP first.
Or or, and hear me out here. We could do what has happened many different times throughout history. And take over/replace the structure of a party. The Democrats already ignore state and local elections across several red states. What if we lefties/socialist/etc instead of trying to prop up separate parties and separate candidates that always fail. Fielded our own candidates who more closely match our own ideals. And run them as Democrats in these areas. Focusing on funding them ourselves as well as whatever money the DNC apparatus might provide. We might actually start winning. And if we start winning we might actually be able to replace those in the DNC. And if we replace those in the DNC. Things might actually get better.
Isn’t that what they said?
converting the Democrats into a Socialist party would literally be easier
Yeah it was, but they added more context on how it was possible, so I wouldn’t really say it was redundant.
This is what the DSA has been trying to do and succeeding in for 30 years with candidates like AOC
Succeeding? They’ve elected a tiny handful of candidates over the last thirty years so now that’s success? Lol, sounds like something a right wing Democrat would say, because that’s a very convenient result for the party itself. You’re either blindly loyal to this party or you must think we’re stupid.
They’ve elected a tiny handful of candidates over the last thirty years so now that’s success?
Almost all of which were elected in the past decade, that’s rather quick for a political change as large as that. And more are being elected every year.
The DSA literally helped Bernie almost win the presidential primary, that wouldn’t of even come close to happening if the average Democrat was some right wing anti-socialist hawk.
The Communist Party is a fed honeypot
Lmfao, yeah how long has that been the case? Since they realized I was right and switched to endorsing leftist dems and protesting?
converting the Democrats into a Socialist party would literally be easier.
They’re a private organization…
They’ll keep doing whatever they want without changing as long as people keep voting for him.
The only thing the DNC has that a different private party wouldn’t is momentum.
If they just gonna keep following the rnc, we have no choice but acknowledging we were abandoned long ago already
The DNC is a national political party organization. Every four years the entire party is reorganized from the ground up. It’s actually a pretty well created organizational system, the only people who really bitch about it are they keyboard warriors who have no understanding of it or the crazies who cannot fathom why they need other people to agree with them.
Reorganized from the ground up… to be exactly the same. They’re not left.
This is Pelosi telling progressives and the left to F off… https://youtu.be/MR65ZhO6LGA
Pelosi doesn’t pick who can enter or who wins a primary, none of the Democratic leadership does. That’s the donor class at best, but even they can get steamrolled over as the left should’ve learned with AOC and Crowley.
The DNC is a national political party organization
Nope, it’s a private for-profit corporation masquerading as a political party.
That’s how they’re legally registered and that’s how they were able to argue in court that they can rig the primaries or even just directly appointment nominees if they want to
Every four years the entire party is reorganized from the ground up
How adorably naive you are! 🥹
Biden and the rest of the leadership are part of a clique who took over the party in 1992 and never let go. Maybe some of the names and faces change, but the governing and campaign philosophies haven’t changed since then and won’t no matter how much the people they’re supposed to represent do.
It’s actually a pretty
well created organizational systemwell-orchestrated political and financial machineFixed it for you
the only people who really bitch about it are
they keyboard warriors who have no understanding of itpeople who understand how it ACTUALLY works and would prefer a more open, honest and representative partythe crazies who cannot fathom why they need other people to agree with them.
Yeah, because the Democratic Party operates based on pure consensus of the voters and never act against the will of the people for profit or to maintain the status quo… 🙄
Are you being paid or are you gaslighting for free?
It’s so pathetic how you all try to convince us that the Dems are a fairly run grassroots organization when we all know that’s complete bullshit. The second there’s a real threat to the party leadership they can and will change the rules with zero options for recourse through the courts. They’ve done it multiple times before and they will do it again.
At this point I have to assume you have malicious intent towards leftist voters because this is just blatant gaslighting.
The Democratic Party and the DNC and all the affiliates are nothing more than tools for whatever vaguely left of american center interest group wants to use them.
There’s no massive conspiracy to keep the Democrats Neoliberal, and if there is anything even similar to that, it’s happening behind closed doors in Wall Street, not Washington.
They’ll keep doing whatever they want without changing as long as people keep voting for him.
How long have you been involved in politics? I dont mean for that to sound demeaning. We’ve gone from Neoliberal democrats and Clinton gutting social welfare in the 90s to Socialists being integrated into the broader coalition, both parties have changed and will continue to change immensely over time. Ignoring that because you’re upset about Bernie losing the primary in 2016 and 2020 and disconnecting completely from the party is just a ticket to irrelevance, and I say that as someone who worked on some of Bernie’s first barnstorm events and both presidential campaigns.
It’s funny the way this thread went. I don’t think people paid attention to how much the Democratic party changed after 2016 after the Bernie peeps found out about how the party is actually structured. But there ended up being 3 types of new grassroots activists.
- The ones that quickly found out that the DNC isn’t some authoritarian regime who instead pulled up their seat at the table and effected change.
- The ones that quickly found out that the DNC isn’t some authoritarian regime and who wouldn’t compromise with anyone and quickly became irrelevant but still cried that the system was still rigged (while their compatriots looked on in disgust lamenting the extra power to affect change they would have if they would vote as a block).
- Those who got in and then tried to pull the ladder up to prevent themselves from losing their position the same way they accused others of doing.
Completely agree, I really don’t know why these people think the DNC is some massive evil force trying to crush the grassroots leftie activism.
I’m pasting this from one of my earlier comments, but I feel like it’s incredibly relevant.
If you don’t like the policies of the moderate Democrats then volunteer for your local party, most of the people running your county party are old as fuck, that’s one of the main problems with the Dems. Vote in every single primary for the most progressive option. Donate to and volunteer for your progressive state representatives/senators. Help your coworkers organize a union and increase your lobbying power. Join a progressive/socialist election work group like Progressive Victory or any of the countless others. If you aren’t doing at least one of these regularly, then you have no right to complain that the party isn’t listening to you. You’ve given them no reason to.
I deeply feel that none of the people in this thread commenting about the malevolent DNC have done these, and kept doing them since the Bernie campaigns.
I love how democrats just throw out the word “conspiracy” whenever they’re trying to make rational ideas sound crazy.
There is no “conspiracy” to keep the dnc neoliberal. They do it right out in the fucking open and they couldn’t be more clear about it.
The current Dem leader in the house is an actual public school buster with direct ties to private school corporations yet we still have blatant shills like you trying to gaslight us into believing that the democrats aren’t intentionally pro-corporate neoliberals. That’s fucking hilarious.
There is no “conspiracy” to keep the dnc neoliberal. They do it right out in the fucking open and they couldn’t be more clear about it.
That would still be a conspiracy, I never said it was a conspiracy theory. But if having Caucus leadership of a certain ideology makes the entire party that ideology, let’s look at the largest democratic caucus and who leads it
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Progressive_Caucus
Well look at that, it’s the largest caucus of the Democratic Party and its literally lead by a socialist. The entire democratic party must be socialist /s.
We are definitely trying to fight with capitalists over who “owns” the party right now, but walking away from the fight now and trying the same thing the CPUSA and SPA have been trying for a century would be stupid.
Nope, party flips have happened before and they will happen again. You sound extremely condescending for someone who doesn’t know nearly as much they think they do.
The Democratic Party is run by deeply monied interests. You well never succeed in “converting” it to socialism. and no, getting a handful of candidates like AOC elected over the course of a few decades doesn’t show that you can. It actually proves the opposite point.
Today’s Democratic Party is more conservative than ever so all of you claiming we can convert are either incredibly naive, or deliberately trying to sabotage leftist movements.
The Democratic Party is run by deeply monied interests.
You ever seen proof for this or did you just hear it and it sounded right?
Today’s Democratic Party is more conservative than ever so all of you claiming we can convert are either incredibly naive, or deliberately trying to sabotage leftist movements.
Lmfao the Democratic Party used to be the part of Slavery and Segregation, and then what do you know, one of those party flips you literally mentioned happened and they became the ones spearheading the fight for civil rights in Congress. I see no reason the same can’t happen around capitalism.
Today’s Democratic Party is more conservative than ever
Biden just called Trans people part of the fabric of our nation rofl what the fuck are you on about
Inb4 “well that doesn’t count” lol
We should all know by now that that’s not how it’s going to have to work. The way to change politics in a country isn’t from the outside. It’s not even from the inside really, it’s by getting inside and then tearing out all the support beams of fixtures and rebuilding it from the inside out. That’s what conservatives under the Republican party for the last 15 to 20 years. They completely took over the party ousted all the ones that were too moderate for them, they rebuilt their party from the inside to be what it is today. Leftists are going to have to have the discipline to do the same.
And what about the people running the RNC?
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I thought that was Jr’s goal? He seems to be chumming up with right wing conspiracies pretty well.
how is that going to draw in people who would have otherwise voted for the boring mainstream democratic candidate?
He seems to specifically be gunning for the demographic of both right and left wing people that support pseudoscience nonsense. All the anti-vaxxers, for example. It’s certainly entirely possible he’d steal more voters from Trump than from Biden.
It’s certain
ly entirely possiblehe’d steal more voters from Trump than from Biden.Fixed it for you.
I love how democrats scream about a few thousand votes every election. Why is it that democrats cut it so close with a fascist, racist, sexist, dogshit party every election? The democrats should consider that they’re doing a shit job and should work to improve themselves instead of shrieking “but other guy!!!” every single election and claiming that everything cost them the election except for themselves. If they lose the election they smugly say “look how right we are with how bad things are!” and if they win the election they smugly say “we won so we must be doing something right, let’s keep the shitty status quo going!”
Uhh huh. You seriously think any of the voters that we lose to RFK Jr or West care at all about things like policy or actions of democrats in office? Reality has no place in that discussion. Unless democrats start going for the fringe conspiracy nutter vote, those votes are a lost cause
I would love it if that were the view that most Democrats had - then I could vote for the people I like in peace. Unfortunately, every day we get a new “vote blue no matter the genocide” post trying to shame people into voting for Biden. I pray to one day be a lost cause who isn’t worth being yelled at (the earlier the better).
I’m pretty sure everyone cares about their own well-being. I haven’t been paying much attention to RFK Jr since he’s a non-factor, but at a glance I can see why some would like his policies: https://www.usatoday.com/elections/voter-guide/2024-11-05/candidate/robert-f-kennedy
Yes, there is the whole conspiracy theory thing, but I don’t think entire groups of people should be completely written off as crazy since people’s justifications and motivations aren’t so straightforward. I often see democrats claiming that we shouldn’t let perfect be the enemy of good when it comes to faults with their favored candidate, but this luxury isn’t afforded to other candidates. If support for genocide can be overlooked, I’m sure far lesser things can be as well (though RFK Jr is the same on support for Israel/genocide as Biden).
Shhh
Democrats are so used to sniffing their own farts that they don’t realize how bad they smell.
The only person who I’ve heard be in love with RFK Jr. was a former Trump voter.
American electorate: “Fuck this two party system that prevents real choice on real issues.”
Also American electorate: “Damn that third party candidate spoiling things for my side!”
The two party system is not solved by having a third party run. It’s the nature of the fptp voting system that it will tend towards two parties. All having a third party run will do is reinforce the idea that you have to pick the lesser of two evils.
The solution to the two party system is to work from the ground up to get the voting system changed. So despite your attempt to shit on Americans, you’re the one wrong here.
A better title would be:
RFK Jr. can’t win. But he and Cornel West could make Biden lose the White House.
If Biden loses it will be because of Biden and his 4 years of doing absolutely nothing and not getting anything he promised In to law. Also the genocide. As shitty as it sounds people can overlook the genocide if Biden was actually improving people’s lives but they are only getting worse under his presidency.
Biden is an average to above average president.
It’s mostly republican lawmakers passing shitty laws in republican states that makes live for many American worse. DeSantis is the one fucking up Florida. Gregg Abott and Ted Cruz are fucking up Texas. Biden has very little influence on that.
And Biden is fighting the terrible decisions from the previous Trump administration. Were many shitty things are only now starting to show their full efect. Like the increase in higher income tax for lower brackets. Or deregulating coal mining operations that were in place to protect rivers, or defunding the women’s health budget. Most of these things take time for the average person to feel the impact. And Biden is actively trying to reverse some of them. He recently signed a new bill that gurantees funding for women’s health research. Biden rejoined the Paris agreement (which Trump left), with the goal of reducing emissions and combating climate change. And a lot more. But just as with the negative efects taking time to be felt, so does reversing them.
Biden for some reason just isn’t liked by many Americans. It has little to do with his policies or (in)actions as a president. People like to bring up the geonicde for why they don’t like him. But many of the same people have been critizing him before the situation in Israel even started.
RFK doesn’t appeal to Democratics
Yeah keep blaming everything except the fact that Biden has assumed dig shit policies since last summer.
And getting Trump back in the WH is the answer to that?
You know this straw-man you’ve committed to is losing us the election, don’t you?
Look at the polling, look at the primaries. Biden has to do better on his own merit. Trump being bad is Trumps issue, not something that will get Biden elected.
This insistence from the neo-liberal wing of the Democratic party that this is how to run a campaign has basically handed the election to Trump. Stop it. Stop giving the election away. Do better.
What makes you think Biden has done nothing? What do you want him to do better in a divided government?
I think he’s done lots of great things.
No they can’t
Nader 2000, anyone?
RFK is way more appealing to the maga crowd than mainstream or progressive Dems.
How about Cornell West?
Who? I’ve literally never heard of this person prior to now. And I’d like to think I stay fairly up-to-date on US politics.
So yeah, I’m going to go with probably not.
He’s pretty well known among the folks that are big on social justice and environmental issues. I would argue that he’s the biggest name to be on the Green ticket since Nader.
And he doesn’t have to be know by everyone to fuck over Biden. This is going to be a close race. Spoiling a race means that it could come down to a few more votes than normal for the Greens.
Edit: he’s running as an independent now.
The best way to discredit him is with his stance on Ukraine.
https://www.newsweek.com/cornel-west-blames-nato-russias-war-ukraine-1812320
He’s going the with “NATO forced them to” talking point, and he’s against additional funding for Ukraine. I don’t think many people truly on the left will pick him over Biden. Let’s hope not, at least.
To be fair, he’s against the US providing international military aid and funding across the board, not just Ukraine.
he never said NATO forced them he said it’s illegal.
West isn’t green
TIL he left the Green Party a few months ago. He was green until last fall.
nader didn’t put bush in the whitehouse
Definitely debatable. Nader had 97k votes in Florida, and Gore needed about 500.
There are a number of variables that arguably screwed Gore. The ballot format, the chads, the court, the completion from the left, etc. Many argue that removing any one of those variables could’ve likely tipped things for Gore.
Gore won florida
The point is that you’re more vulnerable to shenanigans with a tight margin.
let’s put blame for Bush’s presidency on bush
Going to back to the point of this thread. Someone like West is not going to win. Vote for him if you want, but if you’re in a state that is going to be tight, voting for him will make it easier for the far right candidate to get certified.
And SCOTUS handing it to him, of course.
Also Roger Stone and the rest of the Brooks Brothers Riot ratfuckers for delaying and disrupting the recount enough to give SCOTUS cover for their ridiculous decision to weigh in at all.
Spoiler Effect
