The measure received 14 votes in favour, with the US the sole member to reject it. However, because the US is a permanent member of the council, it has the ability to veto any resolution brought forward
Unlike several previous resolutions regarding a ceasefire in Gaza, Wednesday’s measure was brought forward by all 10 elected members of the Security Council.
The US has vetoed four previous attempts at calling for a ceasefire in Gaza, on most occasions being the lone vote against the measures.
Anyone who can’t see America’s true colours by now is simply refusing to look
🤔
Bruh
Lame duck presidency and can’t even do the right thing
Ducks aren’t even this lame
Shows he and the Democratic leaders never intended to end the genicide. Just another sign the democrats no longer support anyone but the oligarchy. Yes the Republicans are worse by alot but people that are anti genicide, anti oligarchy, anti fascism, anti authoritarianism, etc don’t have a party to vote for. Only the level of oppression they will see in the next 4 years.
Imagine a person having to choose between losing 2 of their limbs or losing all 4 limbs.
Democrats are basically the ones wanting to cut off 2 of your limbs
Republicans want to cut off all your limbs.
Thats what is is. I mean I voted against the party that wants to cut off 4 of my limbs, but I’m just sad that there isn’t a party (that can actually win elections) that is saying “we don’t cut off any of your limbs”.
Me: why orphan crushing machine?
You: because other orphan crushing machine driven by Nazies.
Me: but why don’t we destroy orphan crushing machine?
You: because orphan crushing machine go burrrrrrrrr
Me:…
Come back when there is an option that actually destroys the orphan crushing machines. Otherwise your just pouring more fuel into it and making it work faster.
As long as you keep voting limb cutters, they have no motivation to stop cutting limbs. Not voting for limb cutters is the only way to make non limb cutting get on the ballot
“I would only have the time to save 2 of the 4 childrens in the burning house so I might as well not save any of the children.”
Now imagine next election one person is threatening to kill 4 children and the other team 6. Well obviously we should save 4! Then next election, we have to kill 6, so we don’t vote for the person killing 8. And so on. That’s how we got in this predicament.
That is a valid position if you intend to use that time to make it so that children don’t need to burn every election.
“Two limbs is just as bad as 4 limbs, so I choose 4 limbs!”
Not for nothing, but where is this two limb option? All I see is four limb options except one is grinning and clapping the other is just wearing a false look of commiseration.
You do realize that there is more than one election? Like every four years there is an election. Treating every election like it is the only one and never looking past the immediate effects for the next year is what brought this mess in the first place.
This is also why this comparison is bad. You can not only loose at this election, but the next one and the one after that amd the one after that. In fact one could argue Americans have been loosong every election to the neoliberals since a few decades. And why? Because you never made a point of getting one party to stop being neoliberals.
This election made me realize that political affiliation in the states for a lot of people is like being in a cult. Rather than accepting that your side has issues and needs a change, people just try to justify it by pointing how bad the other side can be worse. Like 90% of lemmy democrats don’t get that I’m not motivated to vote for being waist-deep in shit vs chest-deep in shit. Yes, one is worse than another, but I prefer to vote so I don’t have to be in shit at all. But all they will say back is hurr durr trump bad.
I feel like we need to normalize that demanding more from representatives is OK and necessary for a functioning democracy. The party needs to respond to the demands of those they are supposed to represent. This election made it clear that they only care about the demands of the donors and that needs to change
The right thing is to enact a ceasefire in exchange for the immediate release of all Isreali hostages.
The US was right to veto this unenforceable, performative UN bullshit on the grounds that it didn’t call for the immediate release of the hostages.
I hate to break it to you but any hostages are most likely dead. Probably killed by the IDF themselves. The people of Gaza are also starving to death. You think POW’s are getting first dibs? They won’t agree to release them because there aren’t any alive.
I could be wrong but there’s my 2 cents.
Return the bodies then.
Frankly I hope that they are dead, because the idea of living in a dungeon under Gaza being raped and tortured every day for 13 months is horrific.
And if Hamas has lost track of even the hostages bodies then I don’t envy them, because it seems that they’ve lost what little bargaining position they once had. Uh oh for them.
It’s a fucking genocide. Stop the killing sort the hostages after.
sort the hostages after.
“Sort” the hostages “after” what?
So in your imagination Israel unilaterally stops fighting against Hamas while (a) Hamas continues to hold civilians hostage, doing all manners of physical and psychological torture to people who only happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and (b) Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and tribal gangs continue to wage attacks against Israel? And then (and only then), Israel comes back to the negotiating table with Hamas once again for yet another round of negotiations to try to free the hostages, only for Hamas to decide to move the goalposts?
Is this really the type of illogical nonsense people here believe in?
No wonder this shit has been going on for decades… Y’all have lost your damn minds if you think that the world works this way.
Stop the genocide. Stop the killing of innocent civilians. Now.
Then, reach a deal for the hostages, like the ones Netanyahu has repeatedly shot down.
Then, end the occupation: get Israel the fuck out of Gaza, the fuck out of the West Bank, the fuck out of East Jerusalem, back to their 1967 borders.
Or, if you don’t think this is realistic (and it isn’t because with almost a million settlers, the Israeli right has destroyed the material conditions required for the 2 state solution) prefer cleaner solutions, end Jewish supremacy in Greater Israel (Israel+West Bank+Gaza+Golan+Shebaa). One state, one democracy, equal rights for everyone.
Persecute all war criminals, Israeli and Palestinian. Then run a truth and reconciliation process, with reparations.
Justice, right? Crazy, I know. Illogical shit.
Here’s the catch: without justice there will be no peace. Enjoy your endless cycle of violence.
There is no “justice” in any circumstances in which the hostages are not immediately returned.
Then, reach a deal for the hostages, like the ones Netanyahu has repeatedly shot down.
So you’re literally just confirming this:
So in your imagination Israel unilaterally stops fighting against Hamas while (a) Hamas continues to hold civilians hostage, doing all manners of physical and psychological torture to people who only happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and (b) Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and tribal gangs continue to wage attacks against Israel? And then (and only then), Israel comes back to the negotiating table with Hamas once again for yet another round of negotiations to try to free the hostages, only for Hamas to decide to move the goalposts?
You must have read “Art of the Deal”.
Yes this totally all makes a genocide completely reasonable and acceptable. Genociding the local population, that’s true justice innit?
If you could argue against what I said you wouldn’t resort to putting words in my mouth, mate.
And if you could read you would know that both Israelies and Palestinians are the “local population” with somewhat dubious historic claims over the land spanning back >3000 years.
Need I remind you that it was the British that drew the maps that have lead us to where we are today?
Explain why Israeli lives matter more than Palestinian lives. Like, be precise.
Who said they are? Only you so far.
You should be more precise with your weird, non sequitur questions.
And so every third party voter is vindicated.
What absolute pieces of shit. Can’t even bother to do the right thing when it doesn’t even matter anymore.
Why is it wrong to call for the immediate release of the Israeli hostages in Gaza in exchange for a ceasefire? How does the prolonged suffering of the hostages and their families help the people of Gaza in any way? Is a unilateral ceasefire that doesn’t guarantee the immediate return of the hostages “doing the right thing” to you?
Not that it never mattered anyway. The UN doesn’t control whether a ceasefire happens or not, only the Israelis and Palestinians can decide when to lay down their weapons and release the hostages–and that should have happened a fucking year ago.
Stop putting words in other people’s mouths.
The ceasefire is about widescale collective punishment of a population that is half children resulting in famine and genocide. My point is the Biden administration could do the right thing for once instead of enabling it until the bitter end.
I’m not putting words in your mouth…
The US’s stated reason for rejecting the [toothless, unenforceable, bureaucratic, performative] UN ceasefire proposal was that it did not call for the “immediate release of Israeli hostages from Gaza”.
To that end, you said that they “can’t even bother to do the right thing when it doesn’t even matter anymore”, which to me very clearly shows that you believe that it is wrong (or, not right) to reject an agreement that fails to call for the immediate release of the hostages.
In my view, the right thing to do is very, very simple–as simple as it has been for over 13 months: agree to a ceasefire in exchange for the immediate release of all Israeli hostages in Gaza (dead or alive). A unilateral ceasefire that doesn’t guarantee the immediate return of hostages doesn’t make any sense to me, how about you?
It was also “collective punishment” for Hamas to go on a rampage on October 6th, 2023, raping, murdering and kidnapping innocent Israeli civilians, including men, women, children and seniors. Some of these hostages, if they are even still alive, have been held in what kind of horrific conditions for more than a year… Kept in a dungeon, repeatedly tortured, never having seen the light of day for over a fucking year… Something tells me you wouldn’t be so quick to agree to a unilateral ceasefire if someone you loved was held captive for 13 months, now would you?
The US was right to reject this performative political UN bullshit.
You’re so right, a terrorist organization kidnapped civilians after launching a single day invasion via hang glider.
Better not hold the nation state with jet powered aircraft and tanks waging a 400 day invasion to a higher standard than the common terrorist.
Now who’s putting words in other people’s mouths? 😂
If you had a leg to stand on in this discussion you wouldn’t resort to pathetic non sequitur.
Hamas was [supposedly] the legitimately elected government of the Gaza Strip. To think that they could go on a murderous rampage (in which they killed more people in a single day than the Israelis have in any day since then, by the way), take hostages back into Gaza, hide behind innocent women and children like the worthless pathetic Islamist terrorist cowards that they are, and not face the direct consequences of their actions, is a joke.
I guess when you worship a pedophile who spread his ideology through violent genocide (including in historical Gaza), logic and consequence isn’t your strong point.
Still, I don’t understand why you are so dramatically opposed to the idea of releasing the hostages? What’s in it for you that these people are needlessly tortured? Do you think it helps offset the harm against the innocent Gazans?
I’m not opposed to the release of hostages, I think it’s a stupid reason to veto a ceasefire meant to end famine.
Wtf is wrong with these people. I only voted for them bcz the alternative is a fascist piece of shit. I fucking hate this country.
Is it so wrong to demand the immediate release of Israeli hostages in Gaza in exchange for an immediate ceasefire?
That seems like a reasonable agreement to me. The innocent people of Gaza have derived absolutely no benefit from having Israeli civilians being taken captive, maimed, raped and tortured for over 13 months. Release the damn hostages and end the bloodshed.
I’m not a US citizen, but I can understand why some people didn’t wanna vote this time.
Even though Trump might be worse than Biden when it comes to this conflict, how can anyone vote for Kamala knowing that the death of more innocents will be on their conscience?
The United States on Wednesday vetoed a U.N. Security Council resolution demanding an immediate cease-fire in the war in Gaza because it was not linked to an immediate release of hostages taken captive by Hamas militants in Israel in October 2023. [Source: https://apnews.com/article/un-gaza-resolution-veto-hamas-israel-hostages-b5281432fc2acdc1860adb3015392c0b]
Despite the knee-jerk reaction from uninformed people here, they were absolutely right to veto it.
Any ceasefire deal should obviously demand the immediate release of every remaining Israeli hostage.
There is simply no justification for the withholding of these hostages who have been tortured and raped in Palestinian captivity for >13 months. The civilians of Gaza do NOT benefit from the continued torture of Israeli civilian hostages, so what is the rationale for not calling for their immediate release? Release the damn hostages, and only then can we have a meaningful path towards a ceasefire.
Netenyahu refused the release of all hostages multiple times
The resolution that was put to a vote “demands an immediate, unconditional and permanent cease-fire to be respected by all parties, and further reiterates its demand for the immediate and unconditional release of all hostages.”
The release of all the hostages has always been a part of the ceasefire negotiations, that has never changed. Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.
We’ve had mixed reports of treatment of Israeli hostages by Hamas (1, 2, 3) We know of at least one instance of sexual assault and rape, multiple accounts of abuse, how widespread it is we won’t know until all the hostages are released, which Israel has been preventing.
Israel does torture, rape, and kill Palestinians (including children), and has been for decades.
Palestinian Prisoners in Israeli Prisons
Palestinians are jailed without charge, forced into false confessions, routinely tortured, raped, denied medical attention, and some killed as a result. This includes hundreds of children.
Palestinians denied civil rights (HRW) including Military Court (B’TSelem)
Palestinian Prisoners in Israel (wiki)
Children are jailed and abused in Israeli prisons (Save The Children)
Torture and Abuse in Interrogations (B’TSelem)
Thousands of Palestinians are held without charge under Israeli detention policy (NPR)
This isnt about the hostages to the Israeli Government, this is Israel engaging in Genocide to eradicate and forcibly displace the Palestinian people. Gaza has never stopped being under Israeli occupation since 1967. Hamas only exists because of the Apartheid Occupation of Israel and the daily violence that has subjected Palestinians to for generations. Israel has always been the obstacle for peace, and has been the one preventing a ceasefire.
Human Shields
Hamas:
Intentionally utilizing the presence of civilians or other protected persons to render certain areas immune from military attack is prohibited under international law. Amnesty International was not able to establish whether or not the fighters’ presence in the camps was intended to shield themselves from military attacks. However, under international humanitarian law, even if one party uses “human shields”, or is otherwise unlawfully endangering civilians, this does not absolve the opposing party from complying with its obligations to distinguish between military objectives and civilians or civilian objects, to refrain from carrying out indiscriminate or disproportionate attacks, and to take all feasible precautions to spare civilians and civilian objects.
Israel:
Additionally, there is extensive independent verification of Israel using Palestinians as Human Shields:
-
Including Children (2013 Report)
-
Israel “Systematically” Uses Gaza Children as Human Shields, Rights Group Finds 2024
-
Breaking The Silence - Testimonies from IDF Veterans
Deliberate Attacks on Civilians
Israel deliberately targets civilian areas. From in general with the Dahiya Doctrine to multiple systems deployed in Gaza to do so:
-
The Dahiya Doctrine & Israel’s Use of Disproportionate Force
-
‘A mass assassination factory’: Inside Israel’s calculated bombing of Gaza
Israel also targets Israeli Soldiers and Civilians to prevent them being leveraged as hostages, known as the Hannibal Directive. Which was also used on Oct 7th.
Removed by mod
No.
This isn’t about Hamas or the hostages - it’s about the Israeli hard right’s desire to utterly destroy the Palestinians and rule over all the land from the river to the sea, and Netanyahu’s need to maintain enough support to stay in office and out of prison.
You say that as if the Palestinians don’t have an equal desire to utterly destroy the Israelis and rule over all of the land from the river to the sea.
If I remember correctly it was the pro-Palestinian groups all over the world who were chanting “Palestine shall be free from the river to the sea”, was it not?
At any rate, this is 100% about the hostages, as the US’s reason for voting against this gesture was because it did nothing to call for the immediate release of all Israeli hostages in the Gaza Strip. Why is it wrong to demand that the hostages be freed?
the terrorists should definitely hold onto the israeli hostages then, since as we’ve seen, that’s working out so great for the people of gaza they say they’re fighting for, every single day it’s working out great. the israeli government is fine with this. great plan.
Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.
This isnt about the hostages, this is Israel engaging in Genocide to eradicate and forcibly displace the Palestinian people. Gaza has never stopped being under Israeli occupation since 1967. Hamas only exists because of the Apartheid Occupation of Israel and the daily violence that has subjected Palestinians to for generations. Israel has always been the obstacle for peace, and has been the one preventing a ceasefire.
De-development via the Gaza Occupation
Between July 1971 and February 1972, Sharon enjoyed considerable success. During this time, the entire Strip (apart from the Rafah area) was sealed off by a ring of security fences 53 miles in length, with few entrypoints. Today, their effects live on: there are only three points of entry to Gaza—Erez, Nahal Oz, and Rafah.
Perhaps the most dramatic and painful aspect of Sharon’s campaign was the widening of roads in the refugee camps to facilitate military access. Israel built nearly 200 miles of security roads and destroyed thousands of refugee dwellings as part of the widening process.’ In August 1971, for example, the Israeli army destroyed 7,729 rooms (approximately 2,000 houses) in three vola- tile camps, displacing 15,855 refugees: 7,217 from Jabalya, 4,836 from Shati, and 3,802 from Rafah.
- Page 105
Through 1993 Israel imposed a one-way system of tariffs and duties on the importation of goods through its borders; leaving Israel for Gaza, however, no tariffs or other regulations applied. Thus, for Israeli exports to Gaza, the Strip was treated as part of Israel; but for Gazan exports to Israel, the Strip was treated as a foreign entity subject to various “non-tariff barriers.” This placed Israel at a distinct advantage for trading and limited Gaza’s access to Israeli and foreign markets. Gazans had no recourse against such policies, being totally unable to protect themselves with tariffs or exchange rate controls. Thus, they had to pay more for highly protected Israeli products than they would if they had some control over their own economy. Such policies deprived the occupied territories of significant customs revenue, estimated at $118-$176 million in 1986.
- page 240
In a report released in May 2015, the World Bank revealed that as a result of Israel’s blockade and OPE, Gaza’s manufacturing sector shrank by as much as 60% over eight years while real per capita income is 31 percent lower than it was 20 years ago. The report also stated that the blockade alone is responsible for a 50% decrease in Gaza’s GDP since 2007. Furthermore, OPE (combined with the tunnel closure) exacerbated an already grave situation by reducing Gaza’s economy by an additional $460 million.
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Page 402
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The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-Development - Third Edition by Sara M. Roy
Blockade, including Aid
Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid.
After the ‘disengagement’ in 2007, this turned into a full blockade; where Israel has had control over the airspace, borders, and sea. Under the guise of ‘dual-use’ Israel has restricted food, allocating a minimum supply leading to over half of Gaza being food insecure; construction materials, medical supplies, and other basic necessities have also been restricted.
The blockade and Israel’s repeated military offensives have had a heavy toll on Gaza’s essential infrastructure and further debilitated its health system and economy, leaving the area in a state of perpetual humanitarian crisis. Indeed, Israel’s collective punishment of Gaza’s civilian population, the majority of whom are children, has created conditions inimical to human life due to shortages of housing, potable water and electricity, and lack of access to essential medicines and medical care, food, educational equipment and building materials.
- Amnesty International Report pg 26-27
Peace Process and Solution
Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution
How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution
‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe
Human Shields
Hamas:
Intentionally utilizing the presence of civilians or other protected persons to render certain areas immune from military attack is prohibited under international law. Amnesty International was not able to establish whether or not the fighters’ presence in the camps was intended to shield themselves from military attacks. However, under international humanitarian law, even if one party uses “human shields”, or is otherwise unlawfully endangering civilians, this does not absolve the opposing party from complying with its obligations to distinguish between military objectives and civilians or civilian objects, to refrain from carrying out indiscriminate or disproportionate attacks, and to take all feasible precautions to spare civilians and civilian objects.
Israel:
Additionally, there is extensive independent verification of Israel using Palestinians as Human Shields:
-
Including Children (2013 Report)
-
Israel “Systematically” Uses Gaza Children as Human Shields, Rights Group Finds 2024
-
Breaking The Silence - Testimonies from IDF Veterans
Deliberate Attacks on Civilians
Israel deliberately targets civilian areas. From in general with the Dahiya Doctrine to multiple systems deployed in Gaza to do so:
-
The Dahiya Doctrine & Israel’s Use of Disproportionate Force
-
‘A mass assassination factory’: Inside Israel’s calculated bombing of Gaza
Israel also targets Israeli Soldiers and Civilians to prevent them being leveraged as hostages, known as the Hannibal Directive. Which was also used on Oct 7th.
As long as Israel is occupying Palestine they will never be completely be safe.
This is so odd, I was told only Trump was bad for Palestine, and that he would give Israel a free pass to do whatever it wants.
Nobody has said only Trump would be bad.
The second part is true though.
No more true than the free pass the Dems are giving Israel already. Nothing changes for Palestinians when the Dems are just as complacent and enabling as shown here and many times previously.
Nobody ever told you that “only” Trump was bad for Palestine.
If you need to lie to promote your viewpoint, then your viewpoint is shit.
No one ever told you that, so don’t worry yourself over it.
Nobody said that. But now we get Israel with more of a free pass (yes, it can get worse) and “Dr. Oz” running Medicare.
Awesome right? Hope Democrats learned a lesson at least! Or something…
It does not get worse, a free pass is a free pass.
Hopefully Democrats learn a lesson, but they seem incapable of that and would rather blame minorities for their loss rather than their policies.
It can always get worse. Have you not seen history?
Didn’t you hear? Gaza is SAVED now! YAY! 🤡