Summary
Social media influencers are fuelling a rise in misogyny and sexism in the UK’s classrooms, according to teachers.
More than 5,800 teachers were polled… and nearly three in five (59%) said they believe social media use has contributed to a deterioration in pupils’ behaviour.
One teacher said she’d had 10-year-old boys “refuse to speak to [her]…because [she is] a woman”. Another said “the Andrew Tate phenomena had a huge impact on how [pupils] interacted with females and males they did not see as ‘masculine’”.
“There is an urgent need for concerted action… to safeguard all children and young people from the dangerous influence of far-right populists and extremists.”
Tate should get into a fistfight with a hot femboy and lose, his ego (and by extension those of his followers) would probably won’t be able to take that.
Tate is too busy rolling his scapula up to give the appearance of traps to get into a fight.
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This is the NEW U.S.
He should meet a Luigi.
“There are too many assholes in the world because people let them get away with it.” - Mr Inbetween
The problem isn’t that we need to get rid of Tate. They are like flies and there will always be more like him.
What we need to figure out is what made him so persuasive to young boys - that’s the real problem. We need to know why young boys are willing to listen to bullshit like his, and we must figure out what we can do to correct that.
No positive father figure in their lives. No sense of community. Stigma from male role models that want to step up but fear being branded a PDF.
A big part of this is the shallow takes on feminism that are so pervasive.
And to be clear, it’s not feminism itself that is the problem. It’s the complete lack of nuance we have when discussing topics as a society. The idiots outnumber the thoughtful people, and when an idea becomes mainstream, the dumbest possible take is the loudest and the easiest to spread. So actual feminism got out-yelled by idiots taking the idea to the most illogical extreme.
And that leads to light misandry. And even if it is light, it’s so pervasive that young boys now feel like they’re being overlooked and ignored, demonized and generalized with the worst men have to offer.
And again, I have to stress, that this isn’t because of feminism, it’s because of the lack of nuance surrounding all discussion, but in this case, the discussion around men/feminist issues. It’s much easier to spread “all men are garbage” than it is to spread “women have historically faced complex issues that, together, are a societal stumbling block resulting in less favor in everyday life and a harder, more complicated existence.”
And when this is the case, men like these assholes step in to tell boys, “fuck women, you are a king and you deserve everything.” And what little boy isn’t going to be empowered by that? We need to have space for men in modern society that is supportive and open, because right now the only “support for young men” comes from assholes trying to capitalize on the complicated feelings of suddenly feeling like they’re being unfairly overlooked.
Now, that also has to take into account that if the boys are ever overlooked, it’s because there have been centuries of unequal treatment for women, and that has to start to be righted somewhere. And it’s only been in the last, like, 30-50 years. And in all that time, we haven’t taken the high road to equality, we’ve taken the easy road hyperbole and simplistic solutions, which doesn’t solve the existing problem, it just gives us new ones—like this exact problem we’re dealing with now.
I honestly don’t have a strong sense of how Tate can be so popular. But if I had to guess, I’d say the “no sense of community” is probably the biggest thing.
The internet has become a gathering place where communities and social bonds are formed. I can imagine a heap of people who are struggling socially in the real world seeing, and then seeing Tate and his community offer an ‘answer’ to that - supporting those who feel rejected, and putting the blame squarely on others. That’s what I see as the draw that brings people in. They feel safe and secure in their haven of hatred. Any opposition to them is from people that are weaker and less important. – Which then makes leaving the group almost impossible, because you’d have to degrade your own view of yourself - joining the people who you think are weaker and less important.
So this Tate thing is rot that has taken root because of a gap in more healthy support structures. (I don’t see an easy solution for it though!)
We only talk about the absolute worst men. We have raised them to think that the right is the party for them because otherwise they are being told over and over that they are dangerous predators and nothing more.
Because all we hear about men from the left is that women would rather be with bears, and that men are useless. And that they are oppressing everyone with their privilege.
You tell some poor white kid he’s privileged, he’s not going to be your friend or sympathetic to your causes.
I don’t think messaging from the left has really done anything to win them over. It’s not necessarily that Andrew Tate is telling them anything amazing. He’s just a voice not blaming them for everything.
This is really it.
It’s not even a left vs. right debate at this point. It’s a problem with human psychology where we can’t accept a modest approach to anything. Everything has to be blown out of proportion and distorted to the point it’s not even representative of reality.
Either people are 100% with you, or they’re 100% against you.
I blame reddit and forums like these, honestly, for playing a big role in creating this divide.
Maybe it’s because all we hear from your type is how immigrants are the root of all problems, “all lives matter” and junk like that.
I would say we were doing well but we were doing okay at best
Andrew Tate should just put on the Taliban turban and be done with this charade. His entire schtick is Sharia for Americans.
He already converted to Islam
Tho he seemed to be mixing up Islam with just the Najdi culture.
Well the solution to that one 10 year old is pretty clear. Actions have consequences, if he wants to be a little shit he can repeat the grade next year after hard failing this one.
When I worked in a middle school a couple years back, I heard the Tate shit there. Had a student who would name their Kahoot something like “[female students name] has a nice ass” and administration would refuse to allow me to impose consequences.
If you are around teen boys, please talk to them about Tate. He’s not someone who should be walking free, and he’s not someone children should be listening to.
Alternate idea: it’s not my job to raise someone else’s kids.
If youre a teacher you need to quit. Now.
No it isnt our job to raise someone else’s kids but it is our job to educate them. Not just on curriculum. Teaching isnt just shoving curriculum down students’ throats, calling it a day, and getting your summer vacation.
Our job is to help students succeed as people. The curriculum is one small part of that. Being a role model and teaching kids how to be better people is a part of that. If you didnt sign up for that, find another job.
The world is full of shit teachers and I cannot stand teachers who dont take this job seriously enough to understand the responsibility it comes with. Do better or find different work. For your sake and the sake of your students.
It’s not your job. It is rewarding in and of itself though.
The great part about Boys and Girls Clubs or being a CASA or face painting at a festival etc is that you don’t have to raise them. The undivided attention of adult who seems to genuinely like and care about them for like 15 minutes is the kind of shit that changes kids lives.
I’m not saying “organize community talks at your local library about positive masculinity” or “become a Big” but - maybe a cousin says something shitty at dinner, and you bring it up gently in a chat? Or be a positive role model in spaces where you encounter young men: in video games, on forums, outside…
The best way to create a society where men are allowed to cry and express their emotions is to teach boys and young men these things are okay.
This shitheaded take is how we ended up with the failing society that we have
No, unchecked consumerism is how we ended up with the society we have.
Andrew tate keeps getting rewarded with sex because he has money. He has no reason to change and never will until the pussy faucet gets turned off.
Maybe he wouldn’t be such a ‘role model’ if he had a harder time getting laid. Not sure what we can do about that, though.
“Sex is for making children. Any man who has sex with women because it ‘feels good’ is gay. Oh my pee pee feels good this is great!”
Why any teenage boy would hear that and not unsubscribe is beyond me. They are the other way round. They don’t want children, they just want sex with women. That’s normal for a heterosexual teenage boy.
part of being an adult is doing the work in front of you that needs doing, regardless of "ought"s "supposed to"s
we all benefit from the next generation learning to treat others properly, regardless of our own parental status
If a psychopath has an influence over children in their formative years, it is your absolute responsibility to educate the kid and the parents.
You know, some people would say the same things about having a trans person influence their children.
Actually when you live in a democracy it is. Or at least, if you don’t you still get the consequences when these kids start voting.
think again. do you want someone else’s kids to grow up to be misogynists who will vote?
When I was 10, or 13 there were literally no issues like this at all. Well, I didn’t even think about girls that much at that age, let alone in overly sexual way, lol.
What the actual fuck is happening with society recently? Is everybody going insane because of social media?
I was a rotten kid growing up with distant parents and a hostile sister.
If I’d had access to porn and comics without leaving the house, I’d have become one of these people.
This is why the tech bros don’t want their kids growing up looking at screens.
I’m not a bro, but my 9 year old son isn’t allowed to watch YouTube unsupervised, because when I was 9 I found my way to 4chan.
That won’t keep him safe…
I think I just won’t put a web browser on my child’s computer.
Should solve so many problems before they even appear.
Comics?
You never heard of web comics?
Allow me to introduce you to oglaf.com
Oh, well yeah okay I thought you were talking about comic books lol.
No thank you for the link???
Damn kids…
Get off my lawn.
Grumble
Yes lol
Sorry but that’s absolutely not true.
Boys not being allowed to cry, being man enough, strong enough has always been a thing since before anyone who touched the Internet was born.
This isn’t new at all.
You’re talking toxic masculinity, he’s talking about these children being inundated with propaganda via social media. Very few middle and high school students watched Fox news in the 00’s whereas now it’s being algorithmically jammed down their throats.
Social media is going to cause the fall of the USA and it’s so fucking sad to watch. Social media needs to be scheduled as/like a drug.
Propoganda will be the fall of the USA, and as you had diagnosed, it started in the 90s.
Depends what OP meant by “problems like this”. The specific problem in the headline sounds new; teachers were teachers when I was growing up.
Murica is doing typical murica things.
Isn’t this story about the UK?
Derp. UK, wtf are u smoking over there? I thought we were supposed to be sane continent.
They are just as dumb as us Americans. They did Brexit before we elected Trump.
The world is fucked and always has been. Humanity are horrible evil beings.
This doomer shit is worse than useless - it encourages apathy and inaction.
Not all of humanity or we would not even be here.
No
What these boys need are good role models
I grew up with being bullied, star trek, and karate. All taught me a lot about what it is, means, and implies to be good, be bad, and how to behave like a proper human being.
Today’s kids have weird or no role models at all and most of them are just lost. Even Andrew Tate himself is a victim of this. I sldont see Tate as evil,.i see him as a sad little man that always needs to posture lest someone sees what a real loser he is. Even the raping is just him kicking others down to make others think he’s so strong whereas in reality he is such a pathetic little man. I know the type, unfortunately.
In any case, i think we need much more wholesome YouTube channels where we have real men showing how real should behave, both through strength and thoughtfulness
Even Andrew Tate himself is a victim of this. I sldont see Tate as evil
Victim, possibly. Not evil? Fuck no, I bet he’s fully aware of the shit he does, how bad it is for people that listen to him and society as a whole, yet he keeps doing it. That’s evil.
He probably doesn’t care one way or the other. I doubt he wastes much thought on it.
He’s doing whatever he thinks will make him money so he can spend that money to get laid. In his world, a lot of what he says is probably correct because he’s constantly reaffirmed by the opposite sex.
Meanwhile, the people criticizing him on reddit tend to have a harder time. We’d be fools to think kids don’t realize this. They haven’t been conditioned to ignore reality like many people on these forums.
Won’t happen. We have gendered these political issues so much the alt right owns the entire gender. I vote dem, but doesn’t mater because so many people see the entire group as nothing but dangerous fascists. These kids are being told the alt right is their pary and they get from both sides. Now they are are Worthless shits.
There’s a distinct lack of firm males in our society.
We’re literally going to have to create the male role models that are needed.
I read a VN where aliens were asked to intervene, and solve the problem of humans being evil.
The main idea behind the aliens is that emotion is literally toxic to them. If you persistently shout at one in anger, the alien can actually die.
After some major periods of civil unrest, half of humanity started to advocate a symbiotic relationship with the aliens. They’re inserted into a human subject, replacing most of their biological functions, but also adding the weakness to strong emotion.
You can see how people bound to an alien wouldn’t support Tate. Tate wants to spread hatred, or strong feelings of superiority, but those feelings could actually hurt someone bound to an alien. Therefore, people bound to aliens would rather exile or imprison Tate instead to end the threat he poses to their health.
Amusingly, the alien people get so powerful in the VN that Tate and a bunch of supremacists who hate him have to work together so they don’t get wiped out.
Hey, I am not evil! I am Sexy!
Gotta remember… This is sky news. Probably fake. Especially since the “survey” doesn’t even match the headline.
More than 5,800 teachers were polled… and nearly three in five (59%) said they believe social media use has contributed to a deterioration in pupils’ behaviour.
Wow it seems like everyone here is completely credulous and happy to have their bias confirmed.
I mean, I’ve worked as a teacher for eleven years and I don’t know a single person who doesn’t think that social media contributed to declining behavior standards. When I say, ‘a single person’, I am referring to other teachers or administrators. I am not using hyperbole. Nobody thinks it is good, everyone thinks it’s bad, and every year we tighten the noose.
This is across three school districts and nine grade levels.
This is absolutely a kind of rage-bait.
I don’t doubt that there’s a growing segment of misogynistic boys who have been influenced by Tate and our society’s general check-out when it comes to being communal and supporting each other and the absolute bullshit mess that social media and online dating has created for young relationships, the statistics are abysmal and worrying…
But that said, the large majority of all Americans at any age are still pretty much just getting through it like always.
These kinds of stories, while beneficial that they are highlight and showing us problems that need to be addressed, all they’re doing without a prescriptive solution or counter-point is just wedging this division in our community further and further apart. It’s making girls scared of boys. It’s making boys scared that girls will think they’re horrible misogynists, and thus they will be defensive at the ready accusations and the exchanges spiral from there.
It’s revolting that we cling to hateful figures so readily. They give us validation for pent-up frustration and anger at a system that has abandoned us. That’s why it’s addicting to read about horrible things and horrible people. Which makes horrible things and horrible people. Our addiction to hating people is creating people like Tate, because our desire to hate someone makes us click on these stories over and over and feel that righteous outrage that seems to make everything make sense. It’s addicting and we need to recognize it and stop imbibing in it.
Stories like this are what I think of every time the topic of regulating social media comes up.
We know it’s programmed to create rage machines. We do, and then people act surprised when social media works as designed.
Fake Sky News is also a rage machine.
Where are the parents, if my son pulled that shit I would put him a position where he MUST listen to and work for women until he realizes how ridiculous he is.
Great way to raise a serial killer.
Have you ever had a creepy guy who hangs around the school desperately trying to impress little kids? Yeah he’s the online version.
Or he’s your friend’s weird, 28 year old brother, whose room is only lit with black lights, and UV reactive posters, has no job, smokes weed all day, and trips all the time, who tells you Mayans invented cell phones.
I mean, he’s having an easier time getting laid than most of the people criticizing him on these forums so…
Who do you think adolescent boys are going to listen to more?
This is totally a diffusion of social media issue. Twenty years ago, the media that kids had available for consumption was age rated. We had agreed as a society that certain things should not be visible to children until they grow up. It was possible to do because it was centralized (TV, movies, radio, print) and it was accountable to regulatory bodies and the rest of society. If a TV channel showed something as shitty as Tate style propaganda, there was institutional pushback, there were letters to the editor, there was someone specific to be targeted for accountability.
With social media being dominated by US style “freedom of speech” algorithms and US style acceptance of the impossibility (or even undesirability) of regulation and with completely unaccountable megacorps running them while giving very minimal if non-existent attention to who is watching what, we have a complete lack of age rating. We have given up on the idea of protecting childhood it seems.
Coupled with every fucking other issue being brought up in this thread, from COVID, to economic issues, to cultural misogyny, there is a perfect storm…
Twenty years ago, the media that kids had available for consumption was age rated.
It was, still is, was ten years before, and trust me that didn’t stop me one bit.
What’s different then and now is the degree of choice people employ in their media consumption. It’s not like there was no Nazi propaganda on the net in 1990, it’s that who the fuck seeks that stuff out. The feeds that were choice-free were, yes, sanitised (TV, radio, though if you stayed of long enough TV would show rather interesting things), but also numerous. Like at least seven TV channels over the air, and plenty of radio stations (though most played shoddy music). Imagine having seven tiktok feeds you can’t fast-forward but switch in between. On current algorithmic platforms, you skip something, get shown the next thing, algorithm learns about you, about how to draw its hooks specifically into you. Back in the days, you couldn’t skip, switched away, and if there was only uninteresting stuff on the other channels you switched off. Internet? Age of web rings, search barely even existed. Anyone remember altavista?
I roamed the library, inhaled multiple series of books whole-sale, but in between, there was always this magic moment: Browsing. Looking at things, shaking them a bit, see if they’re actually interesting. Great availability of things, yes, but also limited time, and preferences, so you got picky.
That’s the skill that’s getting lost: People are outsourcing their consumption choices to algorithms. Worse, ones who care about nothing but retention, how can they keep you hooked so you watch more ads.
…which btw ties back into youth protection. Ratings etc. exist but the general consensus in youth psychology is that as soon as youth seeks something out by themselves, they’re ready to consume it. Ratings are there so that kids don’t stumble across things inadvertently, not so that they are completely unable to consume it. A hoop to jump through, maybe some secrecy, all that is a proper framework, “they think it’s not for me, I think otherwise”, puts the mind in the right inquisitive-but-cautious frame. That, however, presumes a choice algorithm that’s running in your head, and not in the cloud.
And meanwhile, “media literacy” is understood as “spotting fake information”. BS. Any information will become true to anyone if you allow it to be fed to you without getting your own agency involved. The question is less “are kids able to sniff out BS” – they by and large are. The question is whether they have the power to say “I choose not to continue down this path”, whether they have trained that muscle. Because without that no amount of skill in spotting bullshit will save you.
With social media being dominated by US style “freedom of speech” algorithms and US style acceptance of the impossibility (or even undesirability) of regulation and with completely unaccountable megacorps running them while giving very minimal if non-existent attention to who is watching what, we have a complete lack of age rating. We have given up on the idea of protecting childhood it seems.
…and you have clearly given up any pretense of not being extremely authoritarian it seems, what the hell does “freedom of speech algorithms” even mean? Rhetorically you are completely mixed up about what is going on and what the solution is, I am amazed you made it here to the fediverse.
We had agreed as a society that certain things should not be visible to children until they grow up.
Do you have evidence the systems we employed to do this actually didn’t make problems worse? As far as I can see, it is also just overly righteous adults desperate to fix the world in ways that don’t make them look inwards and question the policies they support and the beliefs they hold.
I missed a comma before “algorithms” it seems.
The kind of “extreme authoritarianism” you’re pearl clutching about is literally the age ratings system that was in place in the late 90s. Get a grip.
You are the one pearl clutching.
The rise of criminal assholes like Andrew Tate has to do with ADULT MEN VALIDATING these figures all the way up to the most powerful adult men on earth.
Why do you think turning up the centralized censorship dial is NOT going to directly benefit people like Andrew Tate when Andrew Tate is exactly the kind of person the people who have control of that dial actually want?
I am in support of more human moderators moderating social media for kids, but in an empathetic way of giving kids more actual human attention, not as an authoritarian impulse to fix things by always just tightening control over others.
