If you truly love your partner, does a ring and a ceremony really do anything?

I know there are certain legal situations where an official marriage changes who has certain rights, but aren’t those same rights available if you make other legally-official decisions E.G. a will or trusts, etc?

I’m generally curious why people get married beyond the “because I love them” when it costs so much money.

  • volvoxvsmarla @lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    12
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    11 hours ago

    People have already pointed out the legal and financial aspects. But I also want to address the philosophical aspect of your question, which I think you had in mind. And I think the answer I would give you is this one:

    Marriage has the meaning that you assign to it.

    I strongly believe that if we got rid of any legal and financial benefits of marriage, even if we made it explicitly illegal, there would still be a bunch (or even a lot) of people who would get married.

    I would compare it to a house fire. If my house was burning (and there were no living beings in it) and I could save 5 things, what would I save? What would you save? I would take, for example, my favorite soft toy from when I was a kid, and my old box filled with diaries. Is this worth any money? No. Does it have any value? To me, it does. To you, it doesn’t. Maybe you are a very rational person that isn’t attached to anything (or to nothing material) and you would indeed make the smartest choices, saving your passport and documents and money. Maybe you would save a small gift that someone important has given you. Maybe you would save the first guitar you ever bought. You save whatever has value and meaning to you. And these things have solely the meaning and value that you have attached to it.

    Likewise, people have different value and meaning attached to marriage. If you look at it from a rational, logical side - it has its legal and financial perks and benefits and if they weren’t there, getting married would make no sense. But things don’t have to make sense. The meaning we assign to rituals, things, concepts, aren’t necessarily rational. They are, however, deeply personal.

    So, as a side note, please beware of ridiculing people for their views on marriage or weddings, just like you wouldn’t want to ridicule or belittle someone for other things that mean a lot to them. Always sharing the last piece of bread. Always giving a coin to a homeless person. Having a breakfast for 30 minutes every morning. A good night kiss on the nose from their partner. Drawing a dick in the first snow of the winter. Some things mean a lot to people even if they do not rationally make sense.

    In the case of marriage, of course, some of the meaning comes from culture, history, and tradition. Marriage might have had different purposes than it has now, and surely the origins weren’t that romantic. (Not saying, however, that marriage has to be romantic.) But it is there. It is important to some people simply because they have, at some point in their life, decided it is important for some reasons, rational or irrational, social, cultural, and hopefully personal too. To them, it makes sense, it has meaning, it has value. And whatever marriage or a wedding ceremony mean - you decide.

    So the question you should be asking is not whether or not you should get married, it is what marriage means to you. Does it have any benefit or value in your eyes? Are the legal benefits enough for you to get married? What is your stance on divorce? Do you feel like you would get “closer together” with your partner? Would you feel it would make things harder to separate? There are a ton on questions like these that you can ask yourself, I hope you get the jist. There are not right or wrong answers. The only thing that is important is that the meaning you assign to marriage is (about) the same as the meaning your partner assigns to marriage. You can both not care about a spiritual meaning, but just get married for the benefits. You can both be a type of “whatever happens, we don’t get divorced, til death do us part”. You can be “we’ll keep reevaluating whether we still belong together”. You can also be “we get married because we have children and this is practical”. Or “we get married because I am hot and you are rich and when one of us loses their asset we split”. Or “we just want a fancy huge ass party to show our love in this very moment and celebrate it with our friends and whatever comes afterwards is secondary”. It doesn’t matter what your view is, it matters that you guys agree.

  • MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    9
    ·
    13 hours ago

    My partner and I are similar to you. We couldn’t care less. I proposed to her, she said yes, we’re happy with the way things are, nothing needed to change.

    However. Legally speaking, when you get married, you are considered as a single legal entity in many things including court/law enforcement/taxes.

    A person cannot be compelled to bear witness to their partners actions in court, in the USA, that’s the fifth amendment, in Canada, it’s section 11© of the charter of rights and freedoms. The basic concept being that you have the right to remain silent (and not incriminate yourself).

    While I don’t plan on doing any crime or anything… That’s a nice perk.

    Also, she hates doing her taxes, so when we’re married, I can do taxes for both of us.

    There’s very few perks here and bluntly, it’s not worth the cost…

    We’re going to elope and just throw a “reception” (party) afterwards.

  • Adler@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    9
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    14 hours ago

    The feminists don’t agree but historically marriage is there to protect the woman from having to raise a child alone. It is a socially and legally binding promise from the man that he won’t abandon her when she sacrifices her ability to fend for herself in order to bear children.

  • kambusha@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    92
    arrow-down
    5
    ·
    1 day ago

    Marriage? Why, it’s the greatest weapon in any noble’s arsenal! Let me enlighten you on matters of state and power.

    Marriage isn’t about love; that’s a peasant’s fantasy. For those of us who bear the weight of ancient houses, marriage is statecraft of the highest order.

    When I wed the second daughter of House Tyrell, I gained three castles along the Roseroad and secured my southern border against those Dornish vipers. Her father’s bannermen now answer my call; five thousand spears when winter comes.

    Marriage binds blood to blood. When your wife bears your children, you’ve created heirs that unite two powerful lineages. Should some upstart lord challenge either house, they face the combined might of both.

    Consider the Lannisters and their gold. A prudent marriage there secures not just coin for your depleted coffers, but access to their formidable fleet. Or perhaps the Arryns, whose impregnable Eyrie would shield your lands from eastern invaders.

    Politics shifts like quicksand, but marriage creates bonds that even the most treacherous lords hesitate to break. The realm notices when sacred vows are betrayed, and remembers.

    So you ask what’s the point? Power, lands, armies, legitimacy, and the future of your house. What greater purpose exists for those of us born to rule?

    Now pass the wine. These matters of dynasty have made my throat dry.

  • LordCrom@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    2
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    11 hours ago

    Legal items aside. My wife has my back and I have hers. Having a partner in life you can trust with yours is a special thing.

    It doesn’t have to even be man and woman. I know a group of older men who have a group dynamic where they are all basically each other’s partners…not sexually, just supportive.

  • vvilld@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    13
    ·
    edit-2
    15 hours ago

    I’m generally curious why people get married beyond the “because I love them” when it costs so much money.

    Getting married doesn’t have to cost virtually anything. Really just the application fee to get a marriage license. The specific price will vary by state, and even by county (within the US, not sure how it works outside). Where I live, you can go to a courthouse and get married for $35.

    If you plan to have kids, there are a lot of legal reasons why it’s just a lot simpler to be married. The same applies without them, to a lesser degree, but with kids it’s just so much more of a hassle to not be married.

    You’re right that you can achieve most (maybe even all?) legal benefits of marriage through trusts, wills, etc. But that’s a hell of a lot more work, and the lawyer fees, filing fees, and application fees are almost certainly going to cost you more than a cheap courthouse marriage. Not to mention the added work for yourself.

    Beyond all that, though, the single biggest reason I wanted to get married and have a wedding with lots of friends and family was to stand up in front of everyone and profess my love for my (now) wife, let her do the same for me, then have big party with all our friends and family to celebrate it. There’s nothing wrong with spending money to throw a party for something you want to celebrate.

    • IphtashuFitz@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      19 hours ago

      Neither my wife nor I wanted kids but we still got married. The legal aspects you touch on are pretty darned important even without kids in the picture. Health/medical reasons are another huge one. We have a friend who lived with her partner for decades, but never got married. When he fell ill and was hospitalized it was virtually impossible for her to make any decisions, tell the doctors what his wishes were, etc. All because they weren’t legally married.

    • Ricky Rigatoni@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      12 hours ago

      Marriage makes it easier for your spouse to get their due when you pass. If you were never married it doesn’t matter how long you were together your estranged family can still relatively easily pick your corpse clean and leave nothing for the person you actually loved.

    • 𝕱𝖎𝖗𝖊𝖜𝖎𝖙𝖈𝖍@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      edit-2
      1 day ago

      Marriage isn’t necessary for a lot of those. A domestic partnership is a lot easier and can get you couples rights, health insurance, life insurance, and visa. Country dependent of course.

      I personally don’t intend on getting married since I hate that it’s a religious practice enshrined in law. But between common law/domestic partnership, we don’t need to.

      • brewbart@feddit.org
        link
        fedilink
        Deutsch
        arrow-up
        22
        ·
        1 day ago

        Actually, marriage is one of the founding circumstances why we actually have laws. Although it is reasonable to assume that every marriage ritual in early societies had some kind of ‘blessed be this couple’ aspect, it originated out of civil necessity (structuring inheritance) before the Jesus Club took over and changed the meaning

        • mbtrhcs@feddit.org
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          8 hours ago

          (structuring inheritance) before the Jesus Club took over

          and then it took humanity another 2000 years to move away from inheritance in favor of composition. you’d think someone would’ve realized sooner that it’s not always the right abstraction…

      • vzq@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        11
        ·
        1 day ago

        That really depends on your jurisdiction. There are places where domestic partners have a different status. Mostly because of the long arm of the Catholic Church.

  • Novamdomum@fedia.io
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    7
    ·
    18 hours ago

    It took me a while to fully realise the implications of marriage. At first I thought it was about commitment and love etc. but legally you are literally taking two people and turning them into one. One, glued together, single being that can own things jointly (like a house for example).

    In the eyes of the law you become one being that can do things like have a joint bank account. It’s both really handy, but also a massive risk if things go south. It has some huge implications that not everyone realises too. For example, here in the UK (might be the same elsewhere but I’m not sure) you can own a house jointly BUT if one of you becomes legally incapacitated (like having a serious stroke or something) and needs state care the state will drain YOUR assets to pay for your care costs until you only have about £15k left! (last I checked. It might be more now).

    That includes FORCING you to sell your house to pay for care costs! To avoid that you literally have to change your ownership status to something called “Tenants in Common” because then you both own 50% of the house and the state can’t sell half a house so that protects you. They’re aggressive about it too so if you switch to Tenants in Common straight after the incapacitating event, they can claim “deliberate deprivation” and revert you back to joint owners.

    That’s just one example of the minefield you need to be aware of. The good stuff is definitely financial though. Everything is suddenly half price for example because people tend to share 50/50 in all the costs. That’s really helpful! :)

  • wolfylow@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    44
    ·
    1 day ago

    Marriage wasn’t important to me, either - I was with my now husband for many years before we tied the knot. I’d never been one for the traditional big wedding, wasn’t sure what difference it would make, etc.

    What changed? My Mum died - and in all the times at hospital and then dealing with the funeral etc - I realised just how important being “next of kin” actually is. In so many ways. And while you can cover most of your bases with various legal documents - honestly there’s already a super easy way, that is very well understood all over the world, that achieves this.

    And while I wasn’t expecting it to feel any different afterwards, it really did - for both of us. More certainty and just really solid.

    • flicker@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      25
      ·
      1 day ago

      Glad you mentioned ‘next of kin.’ This is the important answer. If you’re married, you can do all that important legal stuff- make medical decisions if your partner is unconscious or indisposed, get the death certificate if that happens and give it to all the people who will need it.

      Say your partner is in a car accident and you go to the hospital. There’s no marriage, no forms, no nothing to indicate you’re at all related to this person. You’re just some dude or lady, showing up at some dude or lady’s bedside. You can’t make the decisions for this person. Even if, say, they have a horrible narcissistic mother they’re estranged from- that mother, just by being the mother, can get all the authority to make decisions your unconscious partner would hate!

      (Drawing from my own life. Fuck my mother.)

      You can’t even call the hospital and get information on them. If they aren’t awake to indicate a release of information, the hospital can’t let you see them, can’t tell you anything.

      This is just the first example that came to mind. The purpose of marriage is, it’s a legal way to indicate that you’re the most important person in the life of the person you marry. (And yes, depending on where you are and laws in your state or country or whatever, domestic partnership and other stuff can grant that, too.)

  • edgemaster72@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    54
    ·
    edit-2
    1 day ago

    Getting married doesn’t have to cost a lot of money, if a couple chooses to spend a lot on their wedding they’re doing it for that sake, but it’s not necessary.

    • abbadon420@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      31
      ·
      1 day ago

      I got married for free. In my town you can do that on Tuesday mornings. You can even bring up to 6 guests.

  • Retro_unlimited@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    edit-2
    17 hours ago

    My wife and I met ages ago. We were friends for a while. Went on some dates, and eventually got together. I think we were dating about 8 years before getting married, we knew we were compatible. We didn’t rush anything.

    I got married in Vegas, it was a very affordable wedding. That was almost 10 years ago.

    If one of us dies, being married is a very easy way to make sure the other person inherits everything they need to survive.

    I also see how impressed older people are when we say we are married, it seems so few people get married anymore.

    There are so many good reasons to get married. Just be sure before jumping in that both are on the same page of life and goals, compatibility, compromise and understanding, etc.

  • 93maddie94@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    12
    ·
    21 hours ago

    I didn’t do the marriage thing because of love. I don’t need a piece of paper to tell me that. I did it for the logistical stuff. Buying a house. Having a kid. Combining finances. Life insurance. Health insurance. While all of this could be possible without being married, it’s much easier to have a marriage certificate than to try to prove to everyone all the time that we’re partners. If my husband were in the hospital on life support, being next of kin would simplify so many things. My culture is designed in a way that traditional marriage shapes so many processes. There may be workarounds, but they’re not always simplified and most people may not know how to use them. That can take valuable time that you don’t always have.

    • Nefara@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      17 hours ago

      This exactly. It’s an easily recognizable legal shortcut to a bunch of systems, rules and privileges that apply to the situation of two people wanting to live their lives together. Doesn’t have to cost much, if anything, and doesn’t have to have anything at all to do with religion or rituals. Can be just two people showing up at the town hall if you want it to be.

  • TheRagingGeek@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    18 hours ago

    Kind of a niche answer, honestly me and my wife of 20+ years might still be “living in sin” if it wasn’t for her decision to join the military, in order for me to move with her to her home base, we had to be married. It allowed me to visit Alaska which was a great adventure, though I am glad that she is out and we are living normal lives since.

  • neukenindekeuken@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    18 hours ago

    It can be very, very inexpensive for the costs of a court filing fee and a friend getting an online certification to officiate the wedding.

    You get tax breaks while married, and a lot of things in life are easier when you’re married and sharing the same living space, bills, etc. The world has been built to make it more economical and easier.

    It’s the getting divorced that’s expensive and sucks. As long as you can avoid doing that, or have a prenup in place, you’re good.