I spent half that time in Critical Care (much of that on a ventilator, a small amount sedated), and most of the rest in a specialist neuro-rehab unit. I would have died otherwise.
Fortunately it cost me nothing - Thank Bevan for the NHS - but if I were in the US I imagine I would be financially crippled!
You would have lost your job and likely be on medicaid and disability and it would be very unclear if you have or lost your house and possessions but keeping hold of them moving forward would be almost impossible unless you could find a new job which is also highly unlikely.
Also, at some point you couldn’t afford care anymore. So you would have stopped treatment and died.
maybe. the us is odd in that if you literally cannot walk out on your own they usually keep you while the bills rack up.
Hm, would you though. There is short and long term disability. Some states require some amount of it. And salary type jobs often include more of it. You may get replaced after a bit, but you technically would still be employed until after. That might mean you would have to pay the insurance premiums out of pocket, but assuming you could afford to, that would be well worth it.
Not saying that is how it “should” be though. Just that there is probably more nuance.
Im talking about the concept of insurance in general. Im just comparing it. You pay more to handle and event that you can’t economically handle at the time. Like losing your house to a fire. Im just saying the value is worth the cost much like generally these things are.
Your first stop would be a bankruptcy lawyer.
if you can afford one lol.
The average cost of a hospital stay in a U.S. hospital is about $3,000 per day, but it varies significantly by location. So long stays like yours might cost between $250,000 and $500,000.
If your insurance covers it (and about 92% of Americans have health insurance), you’d be looking at your annual out of pocket max, which the law caps at $18,000 for family plans or $9,000 for individual plans, but which most people on employer sponsored plans (around 60% of Americans) have out of pocket maxes around $4,000 to $5,000. Source
So for most Americans, your hospital stay would’ve probably cost the individual patient about $5,000. Insurance would’ve paid another $350,000.
But for some Americans, they’d be looking at a $360,000 bill and then would just file bankruptcy, start over with close to a net worth of zero, at least for non-exempt assets (people generally get to keep their homes, cars, and retirement accounts in bankruptcy so it won’t actually be starting from zero if you’re well into a middle age in the middle class).
Or worse, the hospital would realize they’re not getting paid, and then would find a reason to kick you out as soon as you’re stabilized. They have to keep you alive even when you can’t pay, but don’t have to treat you beyond that for free.
And if you do have insurance and get a bill over a few thousand, there are pretty good odds insurance will deny paying for it and drag you through many levels of confusing and auto-denied appeals over the course of 6+ months! Even if your procedure is clearly covered in your summary plan description or required by law.
And this is why Brian Thompson got what was coming to him.
Agree 100% except one thing to be a little picky, the insurance doesn’t pay the full 350k like ever, that’s the list price they have negotiated prices with the hospital that differ, and if your ask the hospital bursar/collections you can get a cash price that’s usual less as well.
Excellent answer
With the recent changes to the medical insurance landscape in America, and thousands upon thousands of people losing their jobs due to various factors, your 90% figure is pretty generous. Add in the fact that most insurance is tied directly into employment, Americans have much less options than the rest of the free world, unless you are filthy rich.
do you loose your house if you file bankruptcy?
generally, no
That depends.
Are you wealthy? If yes, you’re fine. If no, you’re fucked.
Are you a veteran? Same answers.
Are you poor? You probably died in the waiting room.
Are you a veteran? Same answers.
Ha. Hahaha. Yeah. No. Not necessarily.
Source: knew way too many vets with awful, untreated ailments from my time in US healthcare.
I have heard that VA hospitals are better in some places. I really have had better care from the VA than from public health care.
Most people don’t know but you can get the best of both. You can push for what called “community care” through the VA. If the VA admits there isnt a VA doctor close enough to you, they will send you to a private doctor of your choosing and pay for the whole thing.
I was able to get back surgery by the best doctor in the region this way. I refused to work with the VA doctor due to a bad appointment. I waited weeks to see this doctor and he spent 5 minutes looking at my chart to say I was too young to be helped. Could’ve just told me over the phone. Went back to my primary and complained and they signed me up for community care since they were the only other in the area.
Yes, I’ve tried community care.
I actually got worse care 9/10 times. The wait times are sometimes longer to get established as a patient in the public sector.
Honestly, it would depend on what kind of insurance you have in the US. Each employer has a different set of plans.
No insurance? Absolutely screwed. With insurance?
End of 2018 I had a heart attack and open heart surgery with really good insurance.
Emergency Room - $150
8 days in the hospital + open heart surgery from the head of the cardiac department - $100
Drugs and all the oxygen I could carry - $100Roll forward to January 2019… my company has been bought by a giant company. Health insurance changes. I lose my existing hospital and all my doctors and have to start over in a new system.
7 days in the hospital draining fluid from congestive heart failure - $6,500 - the annual out of pocket maximum for that insurance.
Good news though, hitting the out of pocket maximum on Jan 15 meant all my other medical care the rest of the year was covered at 100%.
Yeah, I can’t imagine that, $6500 would RUIN me, like I legitimately would not be able to pay it
Most of the time you can set up a payment plan but that’s still brutal
Fortunately (?) the reason for the insurance change was my company was acquired by a giant company. Bye bye signing bonus…
alot of doctors are also being bought up by equity firms too, which adds another layer of cost.
deleted by creator
That is bankruptcy, pure and simple. There’s no way you’d financially recover from a four month stint in the hospital.
People have literally unalived themselves here over hospital bills like that.
Thank God you weren’t in a shit hole country, like the US.
This is not YouTube, don’t make it so. You can -and in my opinion, should- say suicide, kill, etc.
America needs to be thrown into a volcano
Or get insurance and then the bill is significantly smaller. The much smaller amount can be put on a payment plan if needed or even haggled down to something you can pay.
Haven’t seen anyone mention maximums. Sometimes insurance plans will straight up stop covering you after a certain price. Like, for the rest of your life. Imagine running up a cancer treatment bill in your teenage years and being cut off until you either die or somehow live long enough to get a job with different insurance.
Holy fucking shit just burn the whole industry to the ground at this point.
How marketable would you say your illness was?
Your options would be: begging strangers on the internet for money and going viral, being rich enough to pay out the ass for really good insurance when you were healthy, declaring bankruptcy, and playing Luigi’s Mansion.
I spent six weeks in the hospital in the US, and my bill (before insurance) was over $400k.
But surely your out of pocket maximum was much less. The “before insurance” numbers are a fiction to make your insurance company look like they’re doing more for you. They don’t pay the hospital anything like that amount, and if you had no insurance, you could negotiate a lower amount from the hospital as well, since they’d rather get something over time than have you go bankrupt on them.
Oh I know they’re bullshit.
Still would’ve been left with a crippling amount of debt for something I had no control over if not for insurance, no matter what the actual number would’ve been.
I don’t have to tell you “that’s what the insurance companies want you to think so you’ll forget about the option of free healthcare for all” because here we both are.
certainly, but I live in the US, so that’s automatically socialism and you’re automatically commie scum for suggesting it.
sorry, thems the rules
Unless you got a couple of million bucks in your bank account…. Super fucked
Or have good insurance.
Even then how whats your deductible or your out of pocket cost before insurance kicks in and then your doctor will have to prove you needed it they might stick you with a bill anyway and 4 months in IC will likely be $5009-15,000 per day maybe more depending on any surgical procedures. The land of the free run by the POTUS- Pedo of the United states, what a great time to be dying
Jury Nullification
Hmmm. Probably like $500,000. It would be cheaper, but good affordable rates are only available to insurance companies. But with a GoFundMe plan you might save up to a $50,000. Best bet is to get on the evening news with you in total shambles. The good news is you can haggle hospitals here, no joke. Not acceptable anywhere else in the US unless you’re buying something hot.
Buying something hot
Your mum?
My brother smashed and broke his thumb.x ray, er visit, blah blah blah. They call him a month later to talk about payment. I cant remember how much, he had shit insurance though. He said, I’d love to pay, but I can only afford 20 a month. I’m willing to pay 20 a month for the rest of my life. Hospital told him dont worry about it. We got a fund for that.
Yeah, that’s good to hear
If you spent 4 months in a U.S. hospital and didn’t die, you would spend the rest of your life wishing you did.
my insurance paid $100k for 5 days in critical and 3 in regular room in 2014, 4 months should be 12 times that, plus add inflation
I’d bet, although the hospital billed that amount and insurance covered it, they actually paid less to the hospital. Because they negotiate lower “allowed amounts” in exchange for keeping the hospital in their “preferred provider” group.
