Clearly the top image is better and more practical, cars are the most versatile form of transport after all.
This thread is a testament to the years of china bad slop that white supremacist liberals have been eating.
Major props to all the patient comrades below trying to educate these stubborn klansmen.
It sure does seem like people who support white supremacist systems and help push supremacist propaganda don’t like being called white supremacists.
Not sure if parody or serious
Why do you use the liberal label? I’ve been hearing this “China bad” shit from the right for years
Because the entire US political spectrum fits nearly inside of “neoliberalism”. Liberalism in general is just capitalism+.
I think the world liberal is used… Liberally. I usually equate it in the US political term for left of center (or rather the opposite of conservatives), but I know the entire US political system is hijacked - both “sides” answer to the same overlords
The general, international use of “liberal” used here and in leftist circles refers to economic liberalism, which is favoring capitalism (private control of the means of production), free markets, and individualism.
I guess I find it confusing because (for me), the term liberal was used as a synonym for a lefty. I know left of US “liberals” don’t like liberals, but that’s more of a recent revelation to me
And the revisionist has entered the chat… lol Right on cue, mate.
Fuck off Benny. Either answer the question or move on if you have no desire to have a conversation
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Wait, I’m a white supremacist because I don’t want China - or anyone else - to manipulate Tibet or persecute Uygurs? I’m a Klansman because I lean to supporting Taiwan’s independence?
Do, like, MLs just hate everyone? Honestly, why are MLs so extremely hostile to people they don’t 100% agree with?
to manipulate Tibet or persecute Uygurs
The people selling this false narrative are white supremacists, not the Tibetan or Uyghur people.
I’m a Klansman because I lean to supporting Taiwan’s independence?
Taiwan is pretty much if the US confederates lost the civil war, then escaped to Cuba, killed all the people there, and set up a state. Read about what mass killings the Kuomintang did to the indigenous peoples of Taiwan when they escaped there.
I didn’t make my point clear. I don’t have any strong opinions on these matters I brought up, outside “genocide is bad” and other basic ethics. I’m admitting I don’t know much about them, not due to apathy but due to… just information fucking overload. It’s absurd to equate me with white supremacists just because I can’t keep up with everything going on in the world to exacting detail.
I apologize for being too combative… it just gets exhausting for us to debunk the same points over and over again, especially since the US has a near total monopoly on anglophone media sources.
We should oppose actual genocide, like the one Israel is carrying out on the Palestinian people with US help, not fake ones like the “white genocide” or “uyghur genocide” which are employed against perceived enemies of the white/western world.
Just want to say thank you for understanding :) I absolutely agree about the genocide in Gaza and any invented “white genocide.” But with something like Xinjiang, I don’t think I can make a call about it, you know? I appreciate your understanding that it’s not as clear-cut to everyone about what’s going on in the world. It doesn’t necessarily make me agree or disagree with you, but it absolutely makes want more to be an ally of yours.
No problem, thx!
I def recommend reading about the US’s many campaigns historically to accuse their enemies of doing the thing they themselves are guilty of. A few good ones off the top of my head are Paul Williams - Operation Gladio and William Blum - Killing Hope
I will, got some theory on my reading list as well :)
There is no genocide in Xinjiang nor, as the accusation used to go, in Tibet. Frivolously accusing an enemy of the west that it’s committing genocide, the crime of crimes, when those accusations mainly feed into narratives used to try to balkanize that enemy of the west does present a certain impression. I have no opinion on your character, but I would gently suggest that if you don’t have a strong opinion then it doesn’t make sense to go around making confident assertions, as you clearly did in the case of Xinjiang (because you surely know the argument being suggested by Cowbee and company is not that the PRC is committing genocide and that such a genocide would be good).
Your statement on Taiwan is perfectly consistent with how you characterize yourself, however we might disagree, because it was expressed as supporting a side in an issue where there is some consensus on what the sides represent, though obviously I and other communists will say that if you want an independent Taiwan, you I guess want a global revolution because in the current world there is no possibility for an independent Taiwan, like there is no possibility for an independent Tibet, because it will either be part of China or it will be controlled by the US.
manipulate Tibet
Was not Tibet having theocracy and serfdom?
Uyghurs
Who were the folk mainly raising the point of Uyghurs tho?
The white supremacist govts who are enabling and engaging in the Genocide in Palestine?Like, for MLs this would seem like anti-vaxx conspiracies, right?
Taiwan’s independence
Both of them are named Republics of China, right?
Their own people also seem to wish for reunification, right? Tho, they obviously seem to have dissimilar opinions on which govt they should come under after unification.
Imperial core drones in the comments be like
The Falun Gong one is legit though, they’re actually against free healthcare and want a totalitarian theocracy. The repression of those is legitimate.
It’s almost like socialism works and US propagandists have been telling us nothing but lies.
i always wonder why people act like socialism/ communism or however one calls it should not work or be worse, while capitalism should work.
While one is working together while the other is everybody on their own.
like as if there would be any scenario really where working together would not be the most efficiant
(my comment is not about china)
For the rest of the world it’s two shit holes fighting over supremacy
the rest of the world
By that do you actually mean the rest of the Western world?
Well duh, the others have hardly any whi- smart people. Hardly any smart people. Can’t help it, they can’t even read the WaPo, CNN or BBC, which are the only news which aren’t propaganda.
Nah… Legit I think most countries
Travel to both China and the US and say that again. I’ll promise you, you won’t.
2x countries I’d never go to again.
Have you been to both? Or are you just so small minded you believe you know everything almost 2b people and the 2 biggest economies have to offer?
Yes, fuck there’s a lot of Chinese dick sucker’s on Lemmy.
Comrade, you may dislike China; and certainly it’s got its problems. It’s terrible indeed.
Yet where is the USA, if the American president supports UnitedHealthcare? Where is the USA, when its leaders siphon money from you, and try to tell you you’re one of them, when you clearly aren’t? Where is the USA, when Trump hides all Epstein evidence away?
Has America ever actually let you improve? Can you develop yourself when you live in fear and panic?
I’m an American living in China so maybe you can understand why I would be confused.
Did something go seriously wrong when you were in each country? Like I won’t return to America if I can avoid it, but there’s still aspects of it I get homesick for, namely the nature and food, and the convenience, price, and scale of cities in China is just good for your soul.
Okay I would just upvote and move on, but you’re clearly baiting with that title so if it’s alright with you let’s have some banter :P
If I say that
- the meme is on point
- material conditions in China are to some extent better than the US
- the US is definitely worse to its own people and the world
- I’m staunchly anti-capitalist
but I also say that I still don’t like the Chinese state because I don’t consider that (and ML in general) a form of worker-owned means of production (whether or not you agree)
Am I a “lib”?
but I also say that I still don’t like the Chinese state because I don’t consider that (and ML in general) a form of worker-owned means of production (whether or not you agree)
We’ve shown many times how the PRC is a worker-owned-and-controlled econoxy, and how the worker’s congresses function in action.
If you don’t consider any actually existing country that’s trying to build socialism “up to your standard”, then you should re-evaluate the basis of your opposition. If you kow-tow to every western-supremacist talking point about how Vietnam, the PRC, the DPRK, and Cuba "aren’t doing socialism correctly because they aren’t as smart as [insert western-supremacist marxist here], then yes, you are a liberal.
Can you define what the word means to you exactly?
but I also say that I still don’t like the Chinese state because I don’t consider that (and ML in general) a form of worker-owned means of production (whether or not you agree)
“Socialism is worker ownership of the means of production” is a syndicalist distortion of socialism. Workers should control the means of production, as in their operation should be based on popular consensus, but “ownership” suggests something like cooperatives (or, you know, syndicates), which operate on the same market system and a permutation of petite-bourgeois races to the bottom that we see under capitalism.
The people must control the state, “win the battle of democracy,” and via their control of the state dictate what happens to the means of production. Specific ownership is a secondary concern, though I agree with what I assume your position is, that the bourgeoisie have been granted too much power and authority in China.
the meme is on point
I disagree: they could’ve used real photos instead of AI generated images.
e.g. I looked at a map and picked the first large city I saw that I’ve never heard of, then looked up some images: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Nanjing%2C+Jiangsu%2C+China&iar=images&t=h_
those aren’t AI
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Pretty sure that’s a toll booth. They widen to allow cars to queue and then narrow back down to transition back to free flowing traffic. It’s not a 50 lane highway merging to 20 lanes, it’s a 20 lane highway widening into a 50 lane queuing area and then merging back to 20 lanes to continue being a highway.
Here’s one in the glorious freedom country:
(Source)
Is this a 20 lane highway merging into a 3 lane bridge?
But yes, China does have a car dependency problem. Something the government has acknowledged and is implementing aggressive policies to combat. From building full metro systems in all major cities in the same time it takes NIMBYs in America to shoot down a single line, to high speed rail, to literally restricting who can drive on what days based on whether you have an odd or even first number on your license plate. What’s America doing? Oh right, doubling down on car dependency and killing what little alternatives there were and calling people who speak out against it “woke.”
that’s a toll booth
Jesus, I hope they’ve installed number plate readers or similar instead since that photo was taken 😅
I’ve been to China plenty, they def aren’t living like this lol. Who believes this shit.
That’s funny because literally China is one of the countries with the highest approval of their government by independent studies.
So even if you’re telling the truth the vast majority of the Chinese people disagree with your sentiment.
Their comment wasn’t about government approval.
Do you think a people who were living in poverty and had terrible living conditions would be overwhelmingly supportive of their government? Come on now think for a second here.
The following is just a really odd way to convince someone of something in my opinion.
- “China is one of the countries with the highest approval of their government by independent studies.”
- Government approval is inversely correlated with poverty and terrible living conditions.
- Therefore it is unlikely that “they def aren’t living like this”
It’s also especially odd if you’re mentioning independent studies. Are there not independent studies about the living conditions?
And to be clear, I don’t even disagree with you. I think a lot of westerners are affected by racist/orientalist views (or whatever you wanna call them) without realizing it. It just felt like a strange way to counter the thought process.
I mention “independent studies” because people are insane and will call anything pro-China you say as just Chinese propaganda.
Nothing I was said was about “independent studies” versus “studies”. I get your point, I’m just saying that wasn’t part of what I found odd. I only used the phrase independent studies instead of studies because you did.
Cool story
I gotta give you this one. I had a sensible chuckle. Development in China has been crazy!
Would’ve been better if real images were used for China
They are real pictures. Here’s another city you’ve never heard of.
Please name the 2 cities on the bottom right of the OP image, then
One of them could be the Tianfu Twin Towers in Changdu.
See, that’s what I’m talking about, there are real images that could’ve been used in the OP, not old 3D renders
What cities?
Pick any city in the Midwest and compare to any proportionally sized city in China. Like just about. Infrastructure is crumbling everywhere in this country while China has built more high speed rail than every other nation on the planet combined.
The priorities speak volumes.
No I mean in the photos
Houston, Los Angeles and some random yet all the same suburb in the US
Lol dipshit have you ever been to China? The small cities they consider sleepy bergs have ONLY 1 million lol. That’s ten times the equivalent city in the Midwest at minimum.
You say this like it’s an own when it’s actually China flexing on us.
My money is on Detroit for the first one
Recommend this City Nerd video on downtowns with the best and worst parking lots
Two things can be true.
they can, but they ain’t.
The rapist is claiming his victim is also a rapist! Both must be true!!
THREE things can be true!
Seems like the only thing you guys do here is strawman and “whatabout”
where either of those things here?
that just shows that china was investing in infrastructure, while US was investing in corruption to funnel more money to the people who need it the least.
I was referring to whataboutism broadly, and not necessarily in this instance.
that just shows that china was investing in infrastructure, while US was investing in corruption to funnel more money to the people who need it the least.
Right, i agree with you, but who was saying otherwise is my point. That’s why i said this is a strawman. “China bad” comments are due to other factors and not infrastructure. This post addresses the China bad comments with “but look at how developed the infrastructure is” whilst the comments are about completely separate things.
If those “other factors” were legitimate why would china be investing anything into infrastructure? If they could simply unilaterally repress discontent, why would they invest so heavily in the experience of their working class? Doesn’t that imply a
hugeimpossible level of benevolence, in your version of events, to do these things with absolutely no mechanism for the people to enforce it?
“Whataboutism” is a thought-terminating buzzword employed by brain-rotted westerners whenever a relevant comparison is made in which they come out looking bad
Whataboutism is a real fallacy
Tu quoque is a real fallacy, whataboutism is a word used by people who are too fucking stupid to google the real name and are 100% always also too stupid to correctly identify a fallacy
So what exactly is wrong if someone wants to use a colloquial? You’re acting like this has any actual bearing on the validity of my point
Your point has no validity as several other users have already explained at length, my point is that you’re also rhetorically/logically/literally illiterate and should be embarassed
several other users have already explained at length
You mean communists like you? We’re so deep in this thread that no one else other than you guys care enough to be still here downvoting my comments.
Similarly you’ve been insulting me this whole time, but I’ve stayed passive, only wanting to engage with your talking points. Maybe you could try being less aggressive for a change.
Yes, several communists have already explained to you in great detail exactly how and why your assertions are incorrect. Your point?
Your passivity is worthless.
