…ᵇᵘᵗ ᵗʰᵒˢᵉ ᵃʳᵉⁿ’ᵗ ᵖʳᵒⁿᵒᵘⁿˢ…
meatwad is dumb tho
Smarter than shake
Dumber than Carl, which… you know…
Carl has a house in New Jersey and works from home in 2000. He’s living the dream.
Except the house is in New Jersey.
Yeah, duh. They’re proverbs
You mean like camels through the eye of a needle?
You must have some tiny-ass camels
Adverbs are like the next stage of Pokémon evolution to pronouns
Finally, an actual joke. I thought we were on an internet-argument-cesspool sub.
I was uplifted for a minute and then I read the comments.
Guys, why is it so hard to just respect that people exist that you might not fully understand?
In my case i respect the existance I just dont want to participate. Leave me alone and I leave you alone
If you don’t want to participate in respect and civility then you can kindly leave society. Leave us all alone because there is no space here for you.
christ almighty what happened to the comments
Basically a single transphobe came in, a load of trans hexbear users started bullying them and mocking them and that boosted the visibility of the post so that more transphobes came into the comments, but because you’re not federated with hexbear all you’re seeing is the transphobes and some people doing pushback on them
Do you know why Lemmy.world is not federated with hexbear?
They’re an instance that claims to be far left, but are mostly authoritarian CCP/USSR fans. Its also impossible to talk to them because they brigade and troll anyone they dislike.
So this is like the one time when tankies are right about something. 🤔 Interesting
Lemmy.world pre emptively defederated them before hexbear federated with wider lemmy because hexbear’s a very active community of communists who’ve been on an undefederated fork of Lemmy for three years or so.
Hexbear users are very active in calling out anything they perceive as reactionary thought (transphobia, racism, ableism, homophobia, support for imperialism, colonialist apologia, etcetera) and pretty frequently get hostile about it, one of the stated intentions of them federating was to bully bigots into silence in order to make all of lemmy a more left wing space. Hexbear has a broader definition of what constitutes as reactionary thought than most people do though so they’ll frequently attack liberals too.
Basically they felt hexbear’s community wouldn’t mesh well with lemmy.world
Hexbear is very very far left and stuff
What the hell is a trans hexbear?
A trans person from the instance hexbear.net
You expect something that literally threatens people with fatal violence to get sensible discussion? Sure it’s a meme and all, but shit like this is just asking for trolls to start shit. No one should get threatened with violence, even in the form of a meme or a joke and it just gives assholes more fuel and no-one wins.
deleted by creator
Oh look, an actual sensible comment.
I completely understand that, a 100%. My point still stands, fueling the fire that is the whole problem isn’t exactly doing any good even if it might feel good for a moment. You can’t leave food laying around and then get mad if you get ants. I even understand the want/fantasy/whatever for violence when you’re at the receiving end of it constantly. But there’s tons of comments wondering “how are the comments like this” when you don’t really need all that much brainpower to see why. Stooping to their level isn’t going to do any good and will be used against you by the very people who are privileged/bigoted enough to behave that way and not get shit. Why supply them with ammo is all I’m saying.
And stooping to their level only makes you an asshole, a tad justified one, but an asshole nonetheless. When both sides justify themselves because they’re right or justified or whatever the excuse for violence and bullshit is, it’s just idiots fighting each other. And while this meme could be in response to violence, it doesn’t really read that way - it says respect. If you think you can demand respect, especially by threatening to murder them, from people so clearly uneducated, unintelligent and idiotic that they behave the way these bigoted pieces of shit do, you’re going to have a hell of a hard time with everything in life. Just bashing your own head against the wall. That’s not how respect works either, especially when it comes to people who you surely know aren’t going to do it in any case.
With a post like this, that to them just “proves their point” about whatever, and dressed like this, did you really expect there wouldn’t be any assholes? And from the comments, there’s assholes on both sides in the comments as much as being angry and pissed is only understandable for one side. Every side is right in their own mind even if one side is completely wrong, but you don’t change an idiots view by threatening them or giving them more ammo to attack you with. There’s a ton of comments here that don’t really work in favor of the cause, but even I’m getting attacked just for stating a fact about feeding trolls and being against violence - violence against disrespect, not violence and people are celebrating that. Which again, only works in favor of the bigots on all levels. But it’s clear that there’s no sensible discussion happening in this post so I’m out.
I hope things get better, because the assholes affect all of our lives and make things shitty for everyone but themselves. Stay safe.
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Yes, most aspects of human history like warfare both threatens human life and is open for debate.
- Post trollbait
- Get trolls
- Rage about all the trolls
- WHY IS MY LIFE LIKE THIS?!
You do you, if that’s how you want to live. You’re seriously going to act like this post was a sensible and reasonable opening for discussion? Never did I say anything about discussing violence, but this post isn’t a discussion in any way and you know it.
You do you, if that’s how you want to live. You’re seriously going to act like this post was a sensible and reasonable opening for discussion?
Yep, sure will. Die mad about it.
Sure, buddy lmao. I don’t know what your problem is and I don’t really care. The only one here that’s mad about anything is you. Keep feeding the trolls and wondering why your life is so miserable. Have fun, love.
Lol nah, you care, that’s why you were bitching about it. But if you want to play it cool to save face, it’s okay. I’ll let you. The rest of us will happily continue to enjoy the thread knowing it was made in good faith.
Whatever you wanna tell yourself. Learn to read.
Enjoy your hateful delusional circlejerk and all the trolls. An asshole is an asshole no matter what flag they fly.
LMFAO “in good faith”. Stroking your ego and patting yourself on the back for exactly the same kind of behaviour you’re mad at at the people on the other end of the spectrum for? No wonder you’re so salty. Keep fueling the fire that makes you miserable, but don’t cry about it when it burns you.
Yeah but like, what are your adjectives?
Mine right now? Confused, curious and cute.
Those are verbs.
Yes physical violence over someone using words is the correct way to do things!
Yep! You had your chance when we were polite for you to be polite. You weren’t. That wasn’t going to last forever. You made your bed. Now you can lie in it for as long as you want because you’re not gonna be able to walk.
Suffer in silence.
Thanks for quoting what they’ll say to you while you sit in a cell for assault.
Violence begets violence. We are nominally adults. We can use words and choose not to associate with others instead of being the aggressor.
The problem is that “using words” doesn’t stop violence against people i care about
Physical violence and taking out the trash are the only proven methods of extinguishing the intolerant.
Under absolutely no circumstances will nazis and bigots be tolerated or allowed to feel safe. Live and let live or find yourself in an untenable position.
You clearly are forgetting the third option where you let fascism destroy your society completely and other nations force you at gun point to get your shit together.
Using violence justifies further escalation. if you punch me for not using your pronouns (especially if I don’t know them) you deserve to either go to jail or get punched back.
Nobody is saying that they justify violence for people who don’t know pronouns and as a result don’t use them at first. This is you changing the goalposts and the content of what was discussed to make your position sound more reasonable. Miss me with that bullshit, it’s transparent as fuck.
Nazism, bigotry, and intolerance towards other humans based on immutable characteristics violates the social contract and will not be tolerated, even if you really want it to be.
Your intolerance will get you fucked up and I am here for it.
No.
iam with you my frien
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Oh goody, another of THOSE idiots…
How do you feel about Joe Rogan taking HRT then? Or gong to the gym? Changing your body is “disrespecting genetics?” No, the issue you take is the social transition. You want to treat people like shit and feel justified in it. Feel free! Enjoy yourself. Just don’t bitch and whine when Meatwad gets you.
You know people are born with genitalia that doesn’t match their chromosomes? If you can be born with the wrong or both genitalia, isn’t equally possible to be born with the “wrong” brain makeup? Additionally scientist believe the more social the animal species, the more queer their sexual habits become. As the most social animals ever, it’s only common sense that our population has different mental and physical differences in order to better understand each other? Trans gender people offer such a boon to understanding humanity. They are a piece of the puzzle to getting past isms. (sexism, racism, etc.)
You should probably do some research on the subject. Intersex and trans people exist however uncomfortable you feel about it. They just want to exist without their existence constantly being questioned.
Who are you, Ian Malcom?
I have no problem respecting them as living, breathing people, but I will not feed their delusion. It is not a physical gender issue, it is a mental health issue - some sort of mental abnormality, like AD(H)D, BPD, Schizophrenia, etc. It is just an extreme form of body dysmorphia (they even call it gender dysmorphia). So why are we being forced to feed this delusion? Why are we mutilating people because of their mental illness? When someone has a mental illness, do we help them hurt themselves or others? No. We give them medication and therapy to try and get their system to function correctly. So why do we not do the same for trans people? It is not the same as being gay/les/bi/etc. That is physical and/or romantic attraction. That is not mental illness. Thinking your body is wrong or that you’re in the wrong body is. We need to stop treating it medically, and start treating it psychologically. Regardless, they are human beings and should be treated as such, with all the rights that go along with it.
Edit: How about instead of downvoting and telling me to fuck off, you answer my questions? I’m serious. I want to know why so many people get hostile when this shit is asked. Is it that hard to accept reality?
Oh, and as someone that’s part of LGBQA, I find it really strange that Trans is included in that since it’s gender and not sexuality. Especially when so many trans people complain about being fetishized.
Oh fuck off
That’s real productive discourse there. It answers all the questions I asked!
Don’t really understand why I’m jumping into the garbage fire here, but here we go.
Let’s assume it’s accurate to classify being trans as a mental illness, just for the sake of argument. What if I told you we’ve tried pure psychological treatment and other medical interventions for trans people before - similar, interestingly enough, to L, G, B, and Q people* - and it is simply ineffective? What if I told you, after many years and unnecessarily dead humans, affirmation of identified gender, hormone treatment and surgical intervention were found to be the most effective means available for resolving the suffering inherent in the condition?
Let’s also assume that despite this illness, a trans person is otherwise deemed fit and capable for rational decision making. You’d need evaluation by a psychiatrist to ensure this is true (which generally happens), but if so they have a fundamental right to bodily autonomy. Who are you or I to tell them what they can or cannot do to their bodies? Hell, if you right now wanted to surgically alter your dick to be comically large, if you’re otherwise capable of decision-making (and a third party can attest to this), would you accept someone saying you can’t, assuming you’ve accepted the possible risks?
End of the day, trans people are normal people who happen to have a disconnect between self-image and physical presentation based on hormone makeup and bodily form, and suffer quite a bit due to it. Transitioning is a game changer for most, and allows them to participate more effectively in the wider world without that baggage.
All you need to do is use a preferred pronoun, as community acceptance is a big, if low effort, part of the ‘cure’. If you get it wrong, 99% of the time you’ll be politely corrected. No one is going to crucify you for this.
Now, you can actively choose not to for whatever reason - but all that really does is make you an asshole in the eyes of many. Why? Because you’re reinforcing something that causes another human pain, and what for? What does this accomplish for yourself, the trans person you’re talking to, and your wider community, exactly?
I’m personally shocked this is such a hot button issue. Let other humans be whatever the hell they want to be, if they are competent to make decisions for themselves and ‘changing’ reduces their suffering. The world’s burning, we have more pressing concerns than what our fellow humans have or don’t have in their pants.
*A omitted simply because I don’t know if asexual people were subject to anything like treatment for gay, lesbian or queer people at the hands of psychiatry and medicine more broadly historically. I imagine not, but I could be 100% wrong, and am without question uninformed.
So, I started writing a (very) long answer with lots of detail, to respectfully and honestly answer your questions, from the PoV of a non-trans person that did quite a bit of research, but I stopped.
I just can’t. Neither can I be respectful towards you anymore. Your constant misuse of the term “mental illness” is aggravating, and quite frankly, disturbing. To the point I am wondering if it isn’t, in fact, a cry for help.
Are you mentally ill? Do you need help? It would really seem that you do.
Just as a thought to ponder: when most other people are mentally ill, maybe you should consider seeing a shrink.
I also want to correct a few things, not for the user I’m answering to, but for anyone reading my comment, because I just can’t let such a heap of manure stand uncorrected:
- There is no such thing as “physical gender”. Gender is a coercion and domination religious tool.
- Being trans, or identifying as a different gender, is a means to escape religious shackles. Escaping religious shackles isn’t “mental illness”.
- “Mental abnormalities” are bullshit. We aren’t computers, we are humans, and all different. There is no normal, except maybe the norm that most dimwitted people have no issue with LARPing a bullshit character decided for them, their entire life…
- Comparing “AD(H)D, BPD, Schizophrenia, etc” is exactly like comparing “bud light, meth, crack, etc”. I know that on the post-2015-internet people talk mostly out of their asses, but that doesn’t make it ok.
- Dysmorphia is a mental disorder. Dysphoria is “acute anxiety”. Again with the mental disorder implication.
- Force feeding medication to alleged “mentally sick” people is a nazi method. A humane approach is to provide care. As in talking with them, listening to them, helping realize, overcome traumas, (re)constructing an identity, etc.
- Feeling uneasy with one’s body is common, it is caused by the image communicated by society about what a “desirable body” is, and the difference between that image and one’s body.
- Medical and psychological care aren’t opposed, nor they are opposable.
Mental disorders are a social construct. Gender is too. That means they are “real” but only insofar as we ascribe meaning to them collectively as a society.
Why do you think The Gay is no longer considered a mental disorder? Do you think we just… discovered something out in the rainforest that proved Gay to be Normal? No, we recognized that it’s a bigoted and harmful way to respond to human behavior.
Also, the reason people don’t want to engage with you is because you’re a giant fucking twat repeating some of the most hateful rhetoric while claiming civility. Go fuck yourself you loathesome piece of garbage. If you really think you’re queer then you really must be one of the most self-hating pieces of shit on Lemmy.
I will answer everyone of your questions if, after, you answer 5 questions of mine. Deal?
Edit: Just took a look through this person’s comment history. There’s no point in having a discussion with them. They’ve lied repeatedly about who and what they are but their entire posting history is tedious. Dude won’t learn, accept criticism or new knowledge. He’s a Fox News viewer. Just block him and move on with your life. He isn’t even worth the oxygen required to type this message.
Edit 2: Dude sent me an Angy™ message
Well I got a message for The Liar.
Lurking more and reading on that is the way to go.
I’d only say that LGB-and-T is this way because these groups of minorities were\are historically targeted by the same sort of bigotry, so they united, shared safe spaces and were supportive of each other. You may say it was dictated by real life more than theoretical arguments. Singling out one part of it for some reason would mean abandoning them and weakening the coalition. There’s a negative probability that after trans people are excluded, other groups won’t be challenged next. You know, not long ago being gay was treated like a mental ilness and there was a conversion therapy to bully them into becoming hetero. It may start to be a thing once again.
Regardless, they are human beings and should be treated as such, with all the rights that go along with it.
And what rights are those, according to you? What human rights do you want for yourself?
Good, you know your sources at least.
So, these rights protect a persons will to be who they want to be, and to do what they want to do. They aim to let a person live their life, unbothered.
Yes?
Yes. So why are they bothering everyone else with it?
Remember a handful of years ago when all of a sudden everyone and their mother had a gluten allergy? That’s what this shit feels like. Yes, there are a lot of trans people out there. But I have encountered so fucking many, both on- and offline, that are just doing it to feel special.
To feel special, or to feel like themselves, which makes them feel excited and happy in a way they haven’t been in a long time, maybe ever?
People are feeling more and more comfortable to come out and be public with who they are, and that’s a good thing.
If you misinterpret that as a weird fad or trend to feel ✨special✨, then I don’t know what to tell you.
Maybe you should take a closer look at yourself, to figure out why it’s bothering you so much. I’m not trying to insinuate anything here, I don’t know you. Only you can come to a conclusion that makes sense.
But whatever that conclusion is, please find it. Take a step back and evaluate what you feel from a neutral distance.
No, I know the difference between someone being giddy over finding themselves and someone doing it for attention. Unlike the fucking hexbears you see here throwing hate around, I know how to be introspective and self-reflect. I imagine it’s not uncommon for people to wonder what it’s like to be the opposite gender. My wife occasionally asks me what it really feels like to have a cock and balls. Hell, I’ve wondered what it really feels like to have a vagina and clit. But neither of us is going to change genders just to find out. It’s just natural curiosity. Trans people don’t bother me. Being browbeat is what bothers me.
You know what’s curious about this whole exchange? Your orignal comment clearly went against trans people in general, but as soon as you got some well-deserved pushback, you backpedal and try to specify only disliking a certain type of person, like that makes it any better.
But anyway. Yeah, natural curiosity is perfectly normal. What’s it like to have this or that bodypart? Never boring to think about.
I don’t see what that has to do with anything, though.
While we’re still on the topic of wanting attention, I reckon I gave you enough of it, more than you deserve.
So again, if you know how to self-reflect, do that.
Earlier in this thread you claimed to be part of the LGBT community. Now you’re saying you’re in a heterosexual relationship with your wife. My guess is that you’re “bi” because you kissed a dude in college and didn’t hate the concept. Now you just believe that you’re bisexual and get to involve yourself in the community when you don’t have a place in it.
Even if you are legitimately bi, I’m here to inform you that the community wants nothing to do with you. You’re a small-minded and hateful bigot who keeps spreading lies. Nothing will change your mind because you believe you have full understanding. Immediately you have put yourself in a place of total ignorance on purpose because you’re afraid of your world view being shattered.
Now. I want you to think. Are you angry? Pissed off that I decided to take something about you and crumple it up, showing that it means nothing and using that against you? Awww. That sucks, huh? Then maybe you should stop doing it to other people when you are beyond clueless.
I don’t think it is a delusion at all. But even if you think of it as a mental health issue. Wouldn’t it be more helpful to treat them in a way that makes them more comfortable? Just basic human decency. At least for me, I would feel uncomfortable or maybe even slightly offended when someone would treat me as a another gender, I don’t feel part of, especially if they know better. (Not LGBTQIA, so I can’t say much about that). EDIT: removed an accidentally offensive part entirely. Sorry :(
When did I ever say that I do or would treat them poorly? I didn’t. I said I treat them as human beings, same as anyone else. I treat everyone based on one thing, and one thing only: are they an asshole. They want to be called she/her? No problem. They’re an asshole about it? Problem.
Because it isn’t a delusion? Delusions are very specific things in mental health and having a different view of your gender than what society assigns to you isn’t a delusion like say thinking my wife is out to kill me which would be a delusion since I don’t have a wife.
Gender dysmorphia does exist but it isn’t something every transperson experiences. The medical solution to gender dysmorphia is transitioning to your perceived gender.
Basically you are fundamentally mistaken in everything you seem to be convinced of. I think this is a moment for you to ask yourself to what extent are you actually educated in mental health as that seems to be the root of your confusion.
What the fuck did you just fucking say about trans people, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to trans people over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.
I’m inclined to agree. People experiencing gender dysphoria deserve our love and respect, in the same way a person with low self-esteem or anxiety or an eating disorder deserves our love, support and respect.
For example, anorexia is an eating disorder where an individual has a hypersensitivity to the perception of their body, specifically its size weight. Weight bias is another topic for another time, but suffice to say that society has people convinced that they have much more control over their weight than they actually do. People naturally come in all sorts of shapes and sizes, and that’s a good thing! Regardless, some individuals who struggle with anorexia believe that they are “too fat” and will try to limit their food intake in order to lose weight, often to an unhealthy degree.
I’m hoping that the next big social movement is a body acceptance and appreciation kind. The human body is an amazing thing. I hope we can learn how to better help people who experience gender dysphoria in the future and empower individuals struggling with their relationship with their body.
I’m glad somebody gets it.
Fuck all the way off.
That’s a wonderful argument. So eloquent.
It feels like we’re back to the first shitposts on Facebook in 2012 with people making serious comments
I know this is a meme sub, but I firmly believe that the trans movement is going to either collapse or severely regress over the next few years. I think it’s already starting to happen. Hopefully I’m wrong.
Being trans isn’t a “movement”. Being openly anti-trans is part of a reactionary political movement, though, one that can’t die out fast enough.
Being trans isn’t a movement in of itself, but there is a trans movement. You can deny it all you want, but it’s there. Unfortunately, at least in the US, the general public is increasingly becoming more trans across all age groups and political affiliations (according to Gallup). This is reflected by the fact that there more anti-trans legislation than there was a few years ago. The reality is that the trans movement is heading in the wrong direction. Either the people with influence in the movement are focusing on the wrong things, members of the movements can’t organize or don’t care enough to, or the movement is being poisoned from the inside either by extremists or bad faith actors. Regardless, if people keep ignoring it, the anti-trans positions will steadily gain more ground and civil rights will regress.
Movement?
I don’t know where you and the other brainlets are brigading from, but what I said is not that complicated. Being trans isn’t a movement, but there’s a trans movement. That movement isn’t doing too hot, and the evidence is supporting that notion. Anti-trans views are spreading more and more, and if the issue is goin to continue to be ignored by people, do you know what’s going to happen? Anti-trans legislation is going to find it’s way into the law, and civil rights are going to regress. Idk about you, but that’s not a good thing in my book.
Good job for insulting me within the first sentence.
What
What’s so complicated about what I said?
Not a fad, not a trend, not a movement. There have been variations of trans people for thousands of years throughout various cultures around the globe. It’s a human thing. The only thing you see happening is growing awareness, growing acceptance, and growing self-discoveries. It’s not going away. You can bitch and whine about people being different if you want, but I think bowling might be a more interesting hobby though. Try bowling instead of transphobia. Yes, calling it a movement is transphobic, no, that doesn’t necessarily make you a bad person, it just makes you ignorant, and given the confidence of your predictions, stupid and arrogant.
They straight up said they hope they’re wrong. I think what they mean is more they expect us to lose our civil rights movement, or at least backslide in the near future. Which…i wish i disagreed
You either read what I said wrong or you’re too busy trying to find something to get mad over.
You’re gunna have to elaborate on that one.
It’s simple, anti-trans views are on the rise among all age groups and political affiliations, at least in the US (according to Gallup). This isn’t randos on the internet, that’s the general public. Movements need the support of the general public to advance their cause. What’s happening is that the anti-trans movement is what’s growing. They’re organizing, passing legislation, creating campaigns, and so on. Looking at the trends, they’re winning. The boycotts that happened to Budlight and Target are not a coincidence. The trans movement is heading in the wrong direction. The people with influence in the movement are either grifting or focusing on the wrong things, members of the movement are not holding their leaders accountable and they’re not organizing, and the movement is fracturing due to extremism poisoning it on the inside. In an ideal world, the trans movement would find a way to head back in the right direction and continue to advance civil rights for trans people… but I don’t see that happening because a lot of people who support the trans movement either don’t care enough to do something or they’re too busy focusing on pointless things.
