The question comes in light of the recent young republicans leaks. Firstly, I’m not a republican and I think the shit they were saying was out of line, regardless of context. That said, the situation, among countless other times similar things have happened made me think. Is it reasonable to hold individuals accountable for statements made that they thought were in private. I think the public figure aspect is obviously the main catch here. In instances where the individual is a public figure, they kind of made their bed in my opinion. That said though, the more normal and sensational these events become the more realistic it is to widen in scope. Would it be reasonable for a future employer or date to pull up your group chats/private messages/anonymous posts?
Should your private messages and group chats be public information?
No.
Is it reasonable to hold individuals accountable for statements made that they thought were in private?
Yes.
Fair
One of the reasons I won’t run for office is my comment history.
Hilarious, a good friend of mine wants to go into politics eventually. He’s very careful about what he texts and even refuses to discuss certain things virtually. He’s also part of the reason I wrote the question.
I’ve got to teach some folks who work for the government and I’m a bit concerned I won’t even be allowed in the building. Or I’ll get disappeared for being antifa.
Be careful out there bro.
It’s by definition not private if others can just look it up. I’d say no. Nobody deserves to be judged by their employer or others for EVERYTHING they do or say. Everybody has a bad day sometimes. Everyone gets really annoyed and says mean stuff.
Furthermore, privacy has profound mental health implications. People that cannot get privacy develop mental disorders like paranoia, anxiety, self-doubt, and all sorts of other problems.
On top of that, if they knew their messages could’ve been leaked… do you think they would’ve said it in the first place? They WOULD be thinking it, but you wouldn’t know.
Invading everyone’s privacy because you don’t want to have to exercise your brain is a terrible thing to ask. To those of us that do know how to observe and think, it’s pretty damn obvious when someone is a pile of crap like these people. Removing ALL privacy just so dummies can agree is… one of the worst possible reasons to remove privacy.
On top of that, if they knew their messages could’ve been leaked… do you think they would’ve said it in the first place? They WOULD be thinking it, but you wouldn’t know.
Lol, that’s really funny, considering this quote from the leaked chats
If we ever had a leak of this chat we would be cooked fr fr
They knew this was a possibility, and said it anyway. This is how these people really think, and I’m not sorry to see them ostracized for having disgusting views.
Regarding the situation at hand, I wouldn’t want my private chats shared, but if they got shared, they worst people would see is what hobbies and kinks I have. Never once have I said something about starting up the gas chambers again or praising Hitler, cuz I’m not a piece of shit.
Oh I’m not sorry for their consequences. That doesn’t make removing all privacy a good idea.
Though think of privacy as offering a feeling of safety. We wouldn’t know they literally said they love Hitler if they wouldn’t have felt safe enough to voice it. They didn’t think it WOULD be leaked. They just knew their opinion was gross to the mainstream.
I’m SURE you have said many things the mainstream would call gross. Maybe not necessarily hateful and vile ontop of that, but gross and ostracizing worthy to some none the less. Would you be OK with people ostracizing you for less than what they’ve said?
Would you have said/done those things if you knew it could be looked up by your name?
I’m SURE you have said many things the mainstream would call gross. Maybe not necessarily hateful and vile ontop of that, but gross and ostracizing worthy to some none the less. Would you be OK with people ostracizing you for less than what they’ve said?
Yeah, but most of the time those views are just that people deserve to have food and shelter and not sell themselves to corporations so they don’t die. And if that’s what I get cancelled for, so be it.
I’ve seen what the mainstream celebrates, and I’m not about it for the most part.
Never shared an offensive meme when you were younger, made an offensive joke/statement, said something negative about someone?
lol well… not exactly what I meant, but OK.
You do point at yet another problem with the idea, though: Not all “unpopular” opinions are bad opinions, and exposing everything for judgement all the time would only further promote same-think under capitalism.
I’d agree what you’ve said.
People should have privacy but people should also not act a way in private that would completely shame them. I mean yeah if you had a list of my porn viewing it would be pretty embarrasing but if everyones was out I bet mine would look tame or at least typical for a straight male. Outside of porn I can’t think of anything I have wrote that is indefensible but all the same a government like we currently have would target me as a lefty/commie/whateverotherbs stuff if they had access to it when I like apply to usajobs.gov thing. Im likely giving it away with my response to the constitution and presidential decree questions (are people aware of the bs questions on there now?)
In my opinion, we as a species are not ready to live in public even as much as we are currently, with the level of privacy we still have. We are already so hateful and judgmental of the “other” and willing to use legal and social means to punish transgressions from the normal. Privacy is one of our only remaining antidotes to tolerate living against the grain of society.
Id agree with that.
Group chats aren’t private. Individuals could possibly disclose what you tell them one-on-one. If in your life there’s something as damaging as what was said in those chats you’re talking about, keep it to yourself. Or better yet, get some new opinions.
just the ones of me f’ing your mom
Come on man, she’s a nice lady
First, there are still technical means and operational security techniques of having and safeguarding private chats, that means if you don’t utilize them and it leaks, it’s basically your fault for either not being informed enough or for being too careless.
Second, if you do criminal things in said private chats, and it leaks, then you should be held accountable for it. Especially if, as in this case, what you did went against the constitution, human rights or similar very basic laws that no one should break, ever. In these times, no one can predict if or when such online hostility turns into real-life hostile acts. The line that separates saying hostile stuff online and actually doing it IRL is sometimes very thin. With the extreme amounts of right-wing extremist propaganda on the web these days, I’d say this is a serious matter and there’s a high chance that some individuals will forget their moral compass and just go full Nazi after being exposed to too much of this stuff.
To your first point, then youd say private chats being used against you (personally or professionally) is fine because its your fault they able to be hacked/accessed? To your second point, I’m not really talking about actual criminal activity. Any criminal activity can, will and should be used in a judicial context to convict of a crime. I’m mostly speaking about social and professional consequences for private chats.
No, what the fuck?
I mean, yeah thats where I’m at. Idk how realistic it is to say it can’t/won’t start happening at some point soon.
Chats should receive the exact same considerations as conversations in person.
As much as I would like to say one shouldn’t say anything in private one wouldn’t say in public, i don’t think people have the maturity to handle it. The average person has at least one, if not several, irrational prejudices. I don’t think we can overcome that.
I can speak as someone who holds public office.
In my work as an appointed member of government, all our meetings are held fully accessible to the public. We technically can have have conversations about what our votes will be, or what we think etc. outside of the meetings, however those conversations cannot let anyone whether us or any member of the public, know how the votes will go before the meeting happens, and that can include the minutes prior. If it happens it can range in anything from fines to jailtime, of course and garunteed to be blacklisted from just about any public work in the future given violation of our Oath of Office.
Thus, technically any conversations or messages between the board, our liason, etc. relating to the work we do can be subpoena’d or FIA’d, or just outright requested by members of the public given relevance, but generally anything we do as private citizens should remain private like for anyone else.
