It’s $2,400 – 6 Steam Decks – the end.
Fair prices are fair, the existence of billionaires is not. Tax Gabe Newell and the rest of 'em too.
Didn’t he buy a massive yacht on the same day steam announced these products? It can’t be easy to sneak a superyacht under the publicity radar, but he seems to have pretty much managed it.
I think he’s earned it. I will accept. 😅.
He’s one rich guy I feel isn’t a piece of shit and has good ideas.
There is no such thing as an ethical billionaire, don’t kid yourself.
You only become a billionaire by being a greedy bastard, there’s no exceptions.
Facts people forget:
- Assembling your own Steam Machine with similar parts will cost around 800
- Even if you assembled it yourself you would be missing features, such as cec, wake by controller, sleep mid game, etc. LTT will try to build one, it will be interesting to see what they come up with, but I’m 90% it won’t have feature parity.
- There’s lots of engineering gone into this machine, they’re way more compact, less power hungry and more quiet than anything you can build yourself.
- Buying the same build as a prebuilt brings a premium and costs around 1000
- Valve purchases stuff in scale so they can diminish their margin and could potentially sell it cheaper than prebuilts, and possibly cheaper than building it yourself.
- Consoles are sold at a loss, and they recover it with games because the platform is closed.
- The Steam Machine is not closed, they can’t be sure they’re getting game purchases, because people might be buying this to be their work computer. So they have to price it as a PC, with margin on hardware, not promise of future returns.
- Price might fluctuate between now and announcement, RAM prices are going crazy nowadays.
With all of that being said, it seems to me it’s very likely it will be around 800 but less than 1000. For people saying you can build one for that price yourself, sure, go ahead, you’ll have a huge, power hungry loud box, without the same features and you would have saved only a small fraction of the value by having to assemble everything yourself.
Also people who like to DIY seem to forget that a lot of people want a turn-key solution, I even dare to say that most people prefer a ready made solution. Even a lot of people who work in tech when they get home want a just work solution.
And a lot of the prebuilts have a ton of cut corners. A well put-together machine that people can trust to play their games at a base performance could be great for those who don’t want or can’t DIY.
PCs suffer from massive hardware fragmentation. It’s about time someone made a standardized PC.
Eh, I dont want steam machine becoming a standardized PC.
having CPU and GPU baked into the board and unchangable will just increase e-waste cause it will age out much faster than a PC which you could, 3-4 years down the line, max out the CPU in, throw more ram into, or upgrade teh GPU, to keep it relevant for another 4+ years
It serves its niche purpose, but it should not become standard.
A good APU solution like in the consoles would be a nice option though. Especially now with RAM prices through the roof again.
I feel the standardization they mean is in the spec and not the specific build. Like, a lot of games are terrible optimized, not only on runtime but also in space needed, it is getting out of hand. But if you have to target a popular machine like steam deck or the steam machine that is not super high-end and have lower capacity storage you have no option but to put some attention on optimizing you game at least a little.
Except that just means they’d optimize for that specific hardware in the steam machine and still run like shit on anything else.
Power wise, they said the steam machine is equivalent to what 70% of the steam users already have and use. If developers arent already optimizing for that specific block, then one more machine out of thousands wont encourage it.
Yup, I love DIY, had tons of fun building my wife’s mini-itx gaming rig, my NAS and even my desktop (although it was the boring one of the three since it’s just standard). I love poking on my system, trying out stuff, etc. But I bought a Deck and my only mod was getting EmuDeck in it, it just works for what I want it to, and that’s worth a lot to me, it allows me to pour my time on stuff I want to be building and just game on my gaming boxes.
Nail On The Head.
I work in tech. I also have terrible dexterity. While I love my gaming PC, I dread upgrades or things going wrong. I hate applying thermal paste, replacing a motherboard, etc. I’d gladly pay “prebuilt” prices for something from a company I can “trust” (as far as corporations can be trusted).
A thousand dollars seems fantastically reasonable for a well-engineered home-gaming machine that can play current gen PC games at high quality. I spend that much every several years on upgrading or building a new PC.
My complaint is not the price, I think the price is fair. Let’s talk wages.
Let’s talk wages.
Absolutely agreed, if every company had wages at the level Valve does it would be very good.
LTT will try to build one
Time for another video of Linus failing to follow basic instructions and going out of his way to break the OS because Linux gaming bad
Yeah, but to be fair that was a shitty thing the system did, anyone with experience would know not to do it, but honestly it should have never happened. On the other hand, Linus is a bit daft and lots of stuff blows over his head monumentally, in the same video where he said he would be building a Steam Machine he also couldn’t seem to grasp that this is just a computer and people would see it as a prevuilt. In short I don’t think he will acknowledge lots of the killer features in the Steam Machine just so he can claim his thing does the same. But at least it will be an interesting watch.
Yeah, I agree.
I detest Linus, but at least attack him for legitimate shit.
He was approaching linux as a basic idiot, like someone like me, and that is absolutely something a new average linux user would absolutely do.
iirc, that bug was known before hand, and no one bothered to fix it until famous man made video that got famous.
It was known beforehand and was fixed already by the time he released his video, he just happened to luck out and encounter it during the short spam it existed.
I disagree that he approached it as a complete idiot, he approached it as someone who knows what they’re doing, when he definitely doesn’t, and that was the issue. Anyone without technical know-how would have panicked at the system asking him to type “I know what I’m doing”, and anyone with enough technical know-how would have paused at that and read the message carefully and moped the fuck out. He had enough knowledge to think he knew what he was doing, but not enough to actually do, and the boldness to think he knew better.
That being said, I agree that there’s plenty of other stuff to bash him for, and that was not a great example, lots of people would have found themselves in that same situation, and I don’t think it’s unfair to say the fuck up there was not entirely on his part.
failing to follow basic instructions and going out of his way to break the OS
Otherwise known as a typical behaviour of majority of users
Good thing his team has a few linux nerds. So unlike that challenge where he was alone, here his team would work on it.
I hate LTT, but they did absolutely nothing wrong or anything a normal user wouldn’t do in that video.
I don’t think so, I think a normal user would pause when the system asks him to type “Yes, do as I say” as that is clearly a sign that you’re about to shoot yourself in the foot.
You are very far removed from a normal user then.
Most people rarely read warnings or signs. They’re used to needing to just click accept and move on. More than that, their entire experience thus far will have trained them to just type in the magic command line words and get it over with. This is what linux enthusiasts beat into them while pretending everything is a cake walk. “Don’t trust anything” while simultaneously telling them to use this and that script, and copy this and that text into the terminal. Its not at all a wonder to imagine that behaviour.
It wasn’t a standard accept/continue/yes prompt, it wasn’t something that he could just press enter or something easy and continue without noticing, he had to have read the message to know what to do, it was something akin to:
WARNING The following essential packages will be removed. This should NOT be done unless you know exactly what you’re doing! … You’re about to do something harmful, if you’re sure of what you’re doing type the phrase “Yes, do as I say!”
The message couldn’t have been more clear about it. Plus most users wouldn’t need to use the terminal, he just happened to use the distro during the brief window that that bug existed.
As a Linux enthusiast I can definitely tell you I never encourage people to just type words in the magic box and get it over with, and always tell them to understand what they’re typing.
It wasn’t a standard accept/continue/yes prompt,
Doesn’t matter. This is an opinion that is 100% formed in an echo chamber where you are far removed from what a regular user would think going through this process. All of these prompts you think look different, to a normal person might as well be literally exactly the same. “I don’t know what I am doing, but the program says to do the next thing, with some warning that probably doesnt matter because I’m not doing something hard or critically important”.
Of note:
WARNING The following essential packages will be removed. This should NOT be done unless you know exactly what you’re doing!
That is a message that would not impede a regular user at all, or would completely stop them from using the OS.
They’re trying to install steam. Why would they have any reason to believe that whatever programs are mentioned matter, or think that this message matters when they’re doing something that is in theory extremely simple?
Plus most users wouldn’t need to use the terminal, he just happened to use the distro during the brief window that that bug existed.
How does this negate the fact that the actions taken were reasonable and absolutely not the users fault? In fact, the fact that this was fixed and treated so urgently betrays what a flaw it was.
As a Linux enthusiast I can definitely tell you I never encourage people to just type words in the magic box and get it over with, and always tell them to understand what they’re typing.
Lets for the sake of not stating what I actually assume to be true take your word at face value.
What you recommend is simply incompatible with the majority of people. They don’t have the time or effort to devote into actually learning as much as you’d need to learn for this to actually be useful advice.
A great amount of information must be completely skipped over and ignored to be proficient in a reasonable amount of time.
I’ve used Linux at multiple jobs, and used it as my main desktop OS for more than a year. I know this to be true. For the average person to follow your advice, they’d need to have a firm grasp of BASH. Expecting people to learn even one scripting language, especially an old esoteric one with many gotchas and vestiges of its time is an absurd ask, so of course no one would listen to your advice as it is utterly unreasonable on its face, and completely incompatible with the level of user adoption people hope for.
So then, there is the other advice, from people who are also elitists, but in a different way. They believe these people must be stupid to not figure out the problems on their own, and casually tell them to just RTFM or use X, Y or Z script with reckless abandon.
Neither of these lead to anything remotely resembling the ease of use of operating systems these users will have come from, no matter how much Linux enthusiasts insist their weird edge cases where they feel those OSes are inferior mean that somehow, magically their opinions apply to the users they are appealing to.
I have a lot more to say honestly, as I have certainly thought about this a lot, but by this point and given the excerpt I am replying to, I’ve learned to never expect good faith discussion, so I’m just limiting my losses by stopping here as I expect toxic positivity as a response.
I agree with lots of what you’re saying, this was a serious bug, it wasn’t the user’s fault, and users can’t be expected to learn bash.
My point is that the message tried to be as scary as possible, because if that message shows then something is about to uninstall critical components from the system, the bug here was that trying to install steam triggered that. I agree that it wasn’t Linus fault, but I think that most users would stop at that message, he didn’t because he thinks he knows what he’s doing, but he doesn’t, he’s in that middle ground where he knows enough to be confidently wrong.
Let me ask you, how would you have given that message in a way that would make people stop?, remember that the message is valid, the bug was installing steam doing that.
…LTT will try to build one…
Jay already tried. It was bigger, didn’t have the custom OS, and cost $1700. He could have done better except he was part limited to what rhe Microcenter he was at had on hand. Doing a bunch or research and getting different parts would probably bring down the price.
They could totally make money selling it at a loss. The reason so many people care is that there’s an opening in the console market for an affordable option
No, they couldn’t, have you read about the PS3? They were a lot cheaper than building a similar system so several companies bought thousands to build clusters, I personally worked at a relatively small university that had a cluster made of dozens of PS3s, since each Playstation costed Sony around $200 my university on its own costed thousands to Sony, and I imagine every other university and some private companies did the same.
You mean the same PS3 that still was profitable?
Only after they closed their system, which they did because they were losing money to every single enterprise in the world who wanted a cluster and PS3 were the cheapest option.
The PS3 was using a rare CPU that you could only get from it or from some enterprise dealer at a much higher price. The Steam Machine is a standard x86 computer that can’t match the ubiquitous ThinkCentres in price/performance.
If it’s sold at a loss like a console it would beat the price/performance of any other x86 chip on the market, which is why they can’t sell it at a loss, ergo my point.
You seem to think the Steam Machine will be much faster than the specs imply.
Thry could absolutely do that. Valve makes a cut off every Steam game sold. If anything, it’d be MORE viable for them than any other console maker given the wider library
. The reason so many people care is that there’s an opening in the console market for an affordable option
The consoles are the affordable option.
I fully understand that it sucks that this is the reality, but sucking doesn’t make something less true.
Buying the same build as a prebuilt brings a premium and costs around 1000
For 1k you can get a 9600 9060XT 16gb system, which is waaaaaay more powerful, so this is quite an exaggeration.
A prebuilt plug-and-play device? Can you share a link to that?
Valve’s Pierre-Loup Griffais claimed that the Steam Machine price had not been nailed down internally, but that Valve’s aim was to offer a “good deal” in line with equivalently powered PCs.
“I think that if you build a PC from parts and get to basically the same level of performance, that’s the general price window that we aim to be at,” he said.
They’re going to be price competitive with building from parts, apparently.
The answer I’m replying to suggested you can get a prebuilt with a 9600 for 1000, since they’re replying to my point that a prebuilt with similar spec is 1000.
Oh, weird. I just read the whole chain going up and I don’t see any indication the figures were for prebuilt systems. Maybe someone edited their post or something isn’t federating?
Regardless, Valve is apparently going to be competitive just in hardware costs, which makes sense—they can’t expect to extract extra value from software sales, but they should still be able to have an acceptable profit margin with their scale and lack of layers in their distribution model.
This is the thing I’m replying to, emphasis on the prebuilt.
Buying the same build as a prebuilt brings a premium and costs around 1000
For 1k you can get a 9600 9060XT 16gb system, which is waaaaaay more powerful, so this is quite an exaggeration.
But yeah, I don’t think the machine will cost the same as a prebuilt, but that’s the high end of the price range.
prebuilt plug-and-play
Considering that building a pc isn’t more than plugging in all the parts, I’d say “building your own PC” very much is plug-and-play.
Not saying everyone can do it but “prebuilt plug-and-play” isn’t the wording I’d use.
It’s a lot more than that, it’s:
- Knowing what parts to buy, I don’t think most average people can cite every piece in a desktop
- Selecting parts that are compatible, try plug-and-play an AMD CPU on an Intel MOBO.
- Selecting parts that fit the chassis you selected, unless you went with a full ATX that’s a concern.
Now that you bought the components:
- Knowing to ground yourself before doing anything, currently I’m getting static shocks daily where I live, if I didn’t know about this I could very easily fry a RAM by picking it up wrong.
- Cable management is not easy, most cheaper chassis don’t have enough or dedicated space for it.
- Correct amount of thermal paste is something lots of people get wrong.
- Some pieces require strength to lock in place, others break if you even look at them sideways.
Now that you’ve assembled everything:
- Installing OS
- Installing drivers
- Installing Steam
- Depending on your OS and controller of choice pairing controller and getting it to work could be difficult
I’m not saying that assembling a computer is hard, but is definitely far from plug-and-play, and not something I would recommend for someone without technical knowledge who just wants something to play games.
That’s the wording a lot of other people would use, I’d say. I wouldn’t be able to put together a PC, and most people I know are like that. I have maybe two cousins that can. But we’d probably all agree that plug-and-play means that you buy something and it works just like that. For example, a refrigerator is likely plug and play, because you don’t expect to have to put together the components to make it work. You just plug it in and it works.
Consoles are sold at a loss, and they recover it with games because the platform is closed.
Sometimes, but evidently not currently. Sources seem to indicate that only Microsoft seems to say they are selling at a loss, though it seems odd since their bill of materials looks like it should be pretty comparable to PS5…
I’ll agree with the guess of around $800, but like you say, the supply pressure on RAM and storage as well as the tariff situation all over the place, hard to say.
Facts
With all of that being said, it seems to me it’s very likely it will be around 800 but less than 1000
maybe more with the way ram prices are skyrocketing… because even though it comes out next year, they are probably being manufactured and stockpiled right now.
Yup, like I said, it depends on how prices will fluctuate, my guess is what the price would be if it was being sold now, if RAM increases they would have to compensate for it.
Yep, and since it has both system ram AND dedicated gddr graphics ram… its gonna be double dipped in the price gouging by the memory manufacturers
Assembling your own Steam Machine with similar parts will cost around 800
No, it won’t. $800 will get you a machine that’s around 50% faster. Controller included.
Even if you assembled it yourself you would be missing features, such as cec, wake by controller, sleep mid game, etc. LTT will try to build one, it will be interesting to see what they come up with, but I’m 90% it won’t have feature parity.
Fair enough.
There’s lots of engineering gone into this machine, they’re way more compact, less power hungry and more quiet than anything you can build yourself.
It’s literally a laptop CPU with a laptop GPU.
Buying the same build as a prebuilt brings a premium and costs around 1000
Also not true. A 1k prebuilt is around 70% faster. Controller not included, though.
Valve purchases stuff in scale so they can diminish their margin and could potentially sell it cheaper than prebuilts, and possibly cheaper than building it yourself.
Sure, but that’s an argument in favour of it costing less.
Consoles are sold at a loss, and they recover it with games because the platform is closed.
Yeah, and the best selling console of the generation is $450 for the digital-only version.
The Steam Machine is not closed, they can’t be sure they’re getting game purchases, because people might be buying this to be their work computer. So they have to price it as a PC, with margin on hardware, not promise of future returns.
Stop this delusion. If this was an actual possibility, it would already be happening with the Steam Deck. Yes, I know you know someone who did it. I know someone who bought a Surface to put Linux on it. There’s dozens of us!
Price might fluctuate between now and announcement, RAM prices are going crazy nowadays.
That I see happening. RAM/storage might triple in price tomorrow which would push the price of the whole industry up.
It’s literally a laptop CPU with a laptop GPU.
Not trying to have a go at you, actually genuinely curious: Do you have a source to confirm this, or is it more of an educated guess on your part?
All I’ve seen so far is that it’s a semi-custom AMD Zen 4 6c/12t CPU and RDNA 3 28 CU GPU.
An educated guess. The specs of the “semi-custom” components perfectly match with existing products. However, if I were to put my tinfoil hat on, I’d point out that the 7600M has been out for 2 years and you still cannot find a laptop with one. Almost as if someone snatched up all of the supply.
Edit: Forgot to mention what those existing products are. Ryzen 5 7400F and RX7600M. (The M is very important. Don’t forget the M).
No, it won’t. $800 will get you a machine that’s around 50% faster. Controller included.
Care to share a link to a PCPartPicker with that? Here’s a link on the same thread of someone building a similarly speck machine for 800 https://lemmy.world/comment/20649777 and that is without the controller. In case you haven’t noticed, RAM prices are a bit crazy at the moment.
It’s literally a laptop CPU with a laptop GPU.
It’s literally not, they custom developed it for the product, similar to the Steam Deck one, it is based on the architecture used on laptops, but so are Playstation and Xbox AFAIK.
Also not true. A 1k prebuilt is around 70% faster. Controller not included, though.
Can you provide a link to such a prebuilt? Here’s the first prebuilt I could find with similar specs, and it’s 1k https://periphio.com/gaming-pcs/firestorm-7600-prebuilt-amd-gaming-pc/
Sure, but that’s an argument in favour of it costing less.
Yes, that was my point, the top of what this should cost is the same as a prebuilt with similar specs since Valve buys stuff in bulk it should be cheaper than that.
Yeah, and the best selling console of the generation is $450 for the digital-only version.
And the other one is 700, your point is?
Stop this delusion. If this was an actual possibility, it would already be happening with the Steam Deck. Yes, I know you know someone who did it. I know someone who bought a Surface to put Linux on it. There’s dozens of us!
It didn’t happened with the Deck because it’s not sold at a loss, so it’s cheaper to assemble a similarly built PC for you. But I definitely saw several posts through the years recommending people just buy a Steam Deck as their machine in certain conditions. If the Steam Deck costed 300 I guarantee you people would be using it as their daily drivers or building clusters of them.
Care to share a link to a PCPartPicker with that?
Nope. Already closed the tab and can’t be bothered to do it again. I did check the link you provided and I see where you went wrong. We’ll get to that in a bit.
It’s literally not, they custom developed it for the product, similar to the Steam Deck one, it is based on the architecture used on laptops, but so are Playstation and Xbox AFAIK.
It literally has the exact same specs as a Ryzen 5 7400F and an RX7600M. But hey, you were right, the CPU is actually not a laptop CPU.
Can you provide a link to such a prebuilt? Here’s the first prebuilt I could find with similar specs, and it’s 1k https://periphio.com/gaming-pcs/firestorm-7600-prebuilt-amd-gaming-pc/
Sure I could. I won’t because you already did and your prebuilt even is a $50 cheaper than the one I had found. Remember that I said we’d get to why the part list you posted was wrong? Here we are. An RX7600 has 32 compute units and a boost clock of about 2.6GHz. The
RX7600M“custom GPU” in the Steam Machine has 28 CUs and a boost clock of about 2.4Ghz. This results in the full size 7600 being anywhere from 30% to 70% faster than its mobile version depending on the game and about 50% in synthetic benchmarks. So those PCs with “similar specs” you brought up are not similar at all.And the other one is 700, your point is?
What other one? The one nobody bought? I guess Valve could go the same route if their goal is for nobody to buy their product.
It didn’t happened with the Deck because it’s not sold at a loss, so it’s cheaper to assemble a similarly built PC for you. But I definitely saw several posts through the years recommending people just buy a Steam Deck as their machine in certain conditions. If the Steam Deck costed 300 I guarantee you people would be using it as their daily drivers or building clusters of them.
It didn’t happen with the Deck because it’s one of the worse ideas ever conceived. It won’t happen with the Cube because it will remain one of the worst ideas ever conceived.
* Even if you assembled it yourself you would be missing features, such as cec, wake by controller, sleep mid game, etc.
I’ve been actively mass downvoted on Reddit for being excited for these features. People are really fucking stupid sometimes.
I have a significantly more powerful PC (in a tower case) currently hooked up to my tv surviving the same purpose and I will likely be getting the Steam Machine entirely for these features.
“But just use a dongle” they say. And I do. It works about half the time and I have to do this weird dance involving pulling up Kodi
I’ve been actively mass downvoted on Reddit for being excited for these features. People are really fucking stupid sometimes.
I’d bet it was more about the phrasing and it probably commented in a way that downplayed concerns other people had.
You’d be wrong then.
“Why exactly would anyone want this?”
“CEC, that alone sold it for me”
points -30
I just can’t take your word for it. It doesn’t pass my smell test and I haven’t seen it.
Neither phrase even turns up results.
Wait did you seriously put effort into searching for my posts just to try and be right?
Mate. I appreciate your absolute derangement here but it was like a week ago in a circlejerking thread and I got downvoted because it was a circlejerk. The same kinda post has probably happened like 2 million times at this point across reddit.
Wait did you seriously put effort into searching for my posts just to try and be right?
Its always amazing when people act like less than 15 seconds of effort is a monumental amount of when things arent going their way to try to attack someone for attempting to verify their claims.
Literally 2 searches, but apparently thats big effort to you. You spent more time typing out this comment.
it was like a week ago in a circlejerking thread and I got downvoted because it was a circlejerk
You said something not jerking in a thread that was openly for jerking, that also is not possible to find, and this proves that reddit has an unreasonable opinion on this box.
This all sounds ridiculous and now I just don’t believe you at all, especially with the ridiculous jump to hostility.
I hope they release the price soon, the discourse on this has become incredibly tiring.
I doubt they will. The market for NAND and ram is insane at the moment, RAM has gone up 100% in the last 3 months. Announcing a price too early could lead to having embarrassingly increase price shortly before or after launch, or take a loss on the products.
That’s not to say I don’t share your sentiments. I too hope they announce it sooner rather than later, but understand why they may be apprehensive.
Additionally with how the USD is tanking and the ever looming risk of new tariffs being added on a whim, there is a real risk that even without global price increases the price needs to be increased for the US specifically
I know speculation is fun, but until we know the price officially, all of this is moot. Wait until next year when they announce actual pricing and judge it then for its value.
I, personally, don’t think it’ll be a successful product if it isn’t less than $800. They don’t have to have it cost console prices, but it does need to be at least somewhat within spitting distance. If the price is the cost of an Xbox or Playstation plus, say…a year of their online service subscription, I think that could be marketable.
If it’s closer to a grand, it’ll be a flop like the first Steam Machines.
Even at 1000$ it will most likely outperform any 1000$ prebuilt you can buy. If they market it like this it can absolutely work at that price point.
Technically i believe that as long as it’s less expensive than the top consoles, it’ll have it’s market share, no?
I know speculation is fun, but
Then you can stop right there. This is just people having fun talking about announced tech.
No reason to over meta analyze it.
The worst thing about the hardware unveiling is the endless posts about pricing 😮💨
Lol, not sure if you’ve noticed but the US is in a pretty shaky situation economically. Of course there’s consumer anxiety about the cost of a luxury item.
I am aware. Not sure what that has to do with my comment.
Anxiety leads to rumination.
If it was going to be cheap, they’d have told us. They’ve prepared us for the worst, and we’ve still got people huffing the copium thinking the Steam Frame will be price-competitive with the Quest 3…
If it was going to be cheap, they’d have told us
Not true. The problem is there are a lot of moving targets in the electronics market right now, so even Valve doesn’t know what they’re going to be able to sell it for.
…And they’re all moving up, sadly.
True. Can’t wait for the AI collapse to bring these prices crashing down with them.
Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahhahaha
It will be $750 to undercut the competition, like with the Steam Deck.
The discourse around this confuses the fuck out of me. Did people actually expect this to be <$500?
I think the problem is Valve lost control of the messaging, which led to bad expectations.
At least in the US, a computer hooked up to a TV to play games means it’s a “console” and not a computer. Maybe we can blame Nintendo back in the 80s for going out of their way to avoid calling the NES a computer (despite it’s name in Japan being Famicom, Family Computer), but the distinction exists today despite technologically no real difference. You know this, I know this, Valve knows this. So Valve wants to make a computer you hook up to your TV so they can get you to use
their money printing machineSteam in the living room too.If you read Valve’s marketing material on the Steam Machine, they don’t use the word “console” once. It’s always either by name or the terms PC, computer, or system. They likely don’t mention the word “console” because to date, video game consoles follow a different business model, one where the model subsidizes the shit out of the hardware and then make money on the back end with game sales/licensing.
Current “console” hardware starts in the <$500 price bracket, and with so much third party media marketing calling the Steam Machine a console, that got people’s mind set on pricing expectations of that market.
This confuses me. You can hookup ANY computer to a living room TV to be a “console”. How is this different?
My theory and point was that by thinking about that computer as a console, in the average consumer mindset it should be priced like a console. From a pure hardware product perspective there is no difference
Valve is thinking about it as a computer, and has stated they intend to price it like one and not like a traditional console
As someone who has hooked up computers to TVs all his life, I can tell you. Just turning on with a controller directly into game mode is a massive game changer as it is a pain to get it working today. Look for guides about it and see the batshit hacks people have come up with.
That and the overabundance of Bluetooth antennas. Oh, and it also comes with super fast WiFi 7 special connection for the frame inside the box. Also, heat and sound management. Gaming PCs are little space heaters, very efficient during cold weather and a pain in the ass in hot climates. Keeping them cool takes an assortment of turbines and makes the living room sound like an airport. If this thing is as power efficient, quiet and cool as advertised, it will be the gaming enthusiast’s dream.
When you turn it on it boots to a controller friendly UI that shows you all your steam games. No setup, no hunting for drivers, no bloat.
A console is typically locked down; they can sell them at cost or a loss and make up the money selling games. A computer is typically not locked down, you can install games from wherever on it, so they can’t assume you’ll buy your games from them (even though you will)
If you read Valve’s marketing material on the Steam Machine, they don’t use the word “console” once.
Doesn’t matter at all. Its clearly meant to operate in the position of one. They could have very well avoided that term to avoid implying the lock down that consoles come with.
A computer hooked up to a TV is considered a media center PC, or an HTPC, not a console
I think both of you are right but also wrong. It’s called “whatever you want” and there is no universal name for the practice. If you’re not using your PC for media, it certainly isn’t an HTPC.
You’re right, though games are also “media” 😋
Fair!
No, but the price points of the current consoles are hilariously optimistic.
Idk, $699 USD for the PS5 pro seems a bit closer to “PC pricing” than I would expect from Sony if they’re subsidizing the cost with future game sales.
I’d kind of expect them to be making consoles at break-even/no-profit, more than at a loss right now.
They can set the asking price to whatever they like but a lot of us cannot justify those amounts for what amounts to a toy. By this stage in a console generation I would expect a lot more games and a lot cheaper hardware. The reasons that haven’t happened aren’t of interest to me as a consumer (they’re of interest to me as a nerd!).
The reason is simple. Inflation.
The NES originally sold for $180 USD in 1985, which is worth $530 today. The SNES, circa 1991, was $199 USD or $459 today.
Fast forward a bunch…
The switch 2 is currently priced at $449 USD.
The literal price has gone up, but the cost is going down. Slightly, but still.
I’m sure I could repeat the same experiment for PlayStation, Xbox, or Sega’s consoles and see similar results.
I think it’s a little more complex than that.
Why do you think that?
Because corporate greed > all?
Because hardware, software, culture, incomes, demand, supply, and many, many other factors have all changed since the 1980s. It’s not a straight comparison. Inflation is a factor but it is not the only factor.
That’s the confusing part for me because statements from the design team said they had the very optimistic goal of running most games at 4k 60fps, which is more like $1000 entry level imo.
“…with FSR.”
That there is a huge difference.
$1,000 is not entry level.
If you go on any website and look at entry level PCs they’re all around $600 to $800.
The lowest amount to run most modern titles AT 4K 60 FPS is around $1000, and thats only because graphics card prices have come down.
If 30FPS on 1080p is good enough I could build it for $400.
It’s not a 4K capable graphics card though it’s a 1080p capable graphics card that they’re saying is 4K because of the existence of AI upscaling which I think is a cheat. So you’re already overestimating the cards capability.
No, but there’s some unhinged people arguing it’s gonna be $800 or even $1k.
Remember, an Xbox series X now costs $600 for digital edition ($800 for 2tb + disk drive)
…and those are just flying off the shelves!
Is PC
Shock and awe when told it MAY cost similar to a PC
It’s moreso because of the actual specs itself, “priced like a PC” is anywhere from $300 to $10,000(at least semi-reasonably on a consumer scale) which isn’t a good metric if you could guess. However, based on the specs it should be somewhere from $500 to $800, and realistically because they were working with manufacturers for it they should be getting a good deal on the parts and therefore it should ere more towards $500 than anything, which would be console pricing. Of course excluding any peripherals. The issue is the way they’re wording it, and the way they have reacted to people like Linus asking if the price will be around $500. It seems like “PC pricing” means more like $1000, which is honestly overpriced for the specs and if it is said price I highly recommend no one buy it, just build your own, it’s easier than you think.
Not a number. Not interesting.
A PS5 Pro, which is more powerful, is $750. If it’s not below that it’s too damn much.
Cheaper games at a higher upfront cost + no monthly online subscription for multiplayer
And is actually usable as a desktop being able to run things like blender, krita, gimp, obs, etc.
99% of people won’t care though they just want to be able to play stardew valley on their big TV.
They can do that on a cheap previous gen console or a potato laptop.
No adobe unfortunately
If someone really wants adobe they can replace steamos with windows or dualboot or maybe boot windows off a external ssd they installed it on.
Also once you buy it they’ve locked you to their platform and make their Monday back on games.
Not really, you can install any other Linux like on any other AMD PC, as happened with the Steam Deck
They were referring to the PS5
!kandoh@reddthat.com implied the steam machine
I’m referring to PlayStation, Xbox, etc.
Yeah, since thr Gabecube is just a PC then a company could just buy the valve subsidized machine, wipe it, and use it for business stuff and never buy a game. Valve can’t risk that.
This is what I’m saying
Valve isn’t publicly traded so profits aren’t a big issue.
This is the key thing that everyone comparing it directly to consoles seems to be completely missing. Even if you’re only buying new steam games the costs are going to be way lower, but you could buy this and just play free giveaways or emulate your own old console games, and suddenly it’s a bargain (like any PC).
A PS5 Pro is locked to the PlayStation store, I can’t install my Steam, GOG, Epic, etc games on it.
The games are all more expensive too and you have to rebuy them to get resolution upgrades with newer hardware.
Why would anyone want it then? Just install Steam on your machine and use it…
As it says in the article, it’ll be smaller and quieter, so less offensive for most people’s living rooms than a full-size desktop. It’s not meant to replace your existing PC if you have one, unless it was getting old and you were about to replace it anyway. If you don’t have a PC, or don’t have one in the living room, then it might be a better option than anyone else’s prebuilt.
The biggest advantages it has over other PCs is CEC and Wake on USB(controller) enabled out of the box. Those are the two features I miss the most on my HTPC.
There are people who exist between “I build, format and otherwise manage my own gaming rig,” and “I don’t need a PC for games.”
My partner is a perfect example. She has my old PC shell, with some $500 of GPU, internal memory, and accessories, hooked up to the TV. She uses it daily, almost exclusively for Steam games and streaming services that she finds more comfortable to navigate with a keyboard and mouse. A smaller, quieter, streamlined, “this more or less will do the things you want to do straight out of the box” product would have saved both her (and I, because that thing has had some troubleshooting) a lot of headache, while looking far more presentable to boot.
Maybe she’s the odd one out and the target audience is more niche than my bias’ recognize, but I guess we’ll see for sure when this thing releases.
“on your machine” requires you to have a machine. This isn’t for people with computers already. This is for people who are already looking for a new machine, and this becomes the “ready out of the box” option.
I mean, it’s fine to do so, as long as you have PC hardware that meets your needs. Valve would be fine with it too. As long as it can run Steam, all good. For Valve, I expect that the Steam Machine is to provide an easy-to-set-up option a la consoles that let them move into the living room for people who have an issue with that. If you can already use/configure a PC and have one, then that option is gonna work too.
People without gaming rigs that don’t wanna spend almost as much for a console
I don’t understand. Why pay the same for the same power just to get a less maintainable machine that is barely usable outside gaming?
How is it barely usable outside gaming? Its a fully functional Linux desktop computer
I used Linux for regular desktop stuff before I installed Steam on it. Steam got me back into gaming.
Almost same, I use Linux on my laptop for regular stuff and just have a console.
Now suddenly valve has made steam and almost all gaming Linux native! I definitely want one lol
Why is it barely usable outside of gaming?
If its a decent price I’ll want it. I love the freedom PC gaming allows but sometimes I do miss the convenience of a console. It would be great for my kid as well. No fidling with the display, having the PC not wake properly from sleep, controllers not connecting, etc. It would just work. Our current setup inevitably something doesnt work right first try.
At least for me, a Steam Machine would be the ideal use case for my brother, since the literal ONLY game he plays is CS2. He used to play Fortnite, but he hasn’t done that in years… and even then if he wanted we could just swap places between my current real computer and the Steam Machine. It’s also really small so it wouldn’t occupy much space on the other room of the house.
People do occasionally buy new computers, and this one looks likely to be a better choice than most of what’s on the market.
Prediction:
$999.99
If you go to CyberPower (nothing special about them, it’s just the first system integrator that popped into my head). You can find a prebuilt with a RX6700 (which is anywhere from 50 to 70 percent faster than the “custom” GPU on the Steam Machine*) for $1049. It would be monumentally stupid to price the cube anywhere near $1000.
*I’m using an RX7600M to estimate the performance for the Steam Machine since it has exactly the same specs.
Plus those Cyberpower PC’s have to factor in a Windows license into the cost.
Honestly, the Steam Machine needs to be less than $800 to be viable.
I just threw together a PC with an 8500g and a 7600 (not the mobile version) and it came to about $780 while being about 30% faster. I think $750 is the most the market would bear but, honestly, it should just be $650.
Edit: Oh shit, I forgot the US doesn’t include tax on their prices. Those $780 are converted from local currency and after taxes. Sales tax in Mexico is 16% so the real price would be around $673. I changed my mind, Valve would be delusional if they price this a cent above $650.
While I agree it is cheaper to build your own it also wont be as small as the Steam Machine.
It’s just that Valve has made a point that it will be priced like a PC, if it is priced like a PC then $650 is far too close to current console pricing. I want to be wrong here, I want it to be cheap and really push Linux into the mainstream. I’m just far too cynical and I expect it to be the most pointless product until proven otherwise.
$650 is far too close to current console pricing
I don’t think it is, though. $650 is 44% over the $450 MSRP of the PS5. If we look at “PC prices” (whatever they meant by that) the desktop I specced outperforms it by 30% to 50%. That puts the size tax for the Steam Machine at up to 45%, which would be hard to justify when laptops with 4050s are regularly on sale. Pricing it above $650 means you can go to BestBuy right now and get an HP Victus for $550 and have a spare $100 for a controller. Then you’ll have a PC that is faster, smaller and cheaper than a Steam Machine. This has to be under $700 to succeed. Although… Valve has been fostering a sort of Nintendo effect where they could price it at $5k and send you a dildo along with the PC so you can go fuck yourself and people would still buy it.
Fun fact: I was looking for laptops with a 7600M to get a more direct price to performance comparison but I wasn’t able to find a single one. Guess now we know what they mean by “semi-custom GPU”.
The Xbox Series X is $650 and the PS5 is $500.
The digital PS5 is $450 and the Xbox Series X has about 15% of the marketshare, proving people won’t stand for ridiculous prices.
I can build a mini PC for a lot less. Even with the joke retail RAM prices. I expect $650-800.
Also they buy parts in huge quantities, it’s not the price you pay for single part, with packaging and all.
I don’t think it’d be that high, retail prices on similar hardware to the specs is ~USD$700, including a (crappy) case and a (decent) PSU.
I think Valve could get it to $649 without subsidy.
Just due to not having pay as much for the parts, they’d be getting the cpu+gpu directly from AMD as ‘semi-custom’ parts, so there is no Distributor, wholesaler or retailer profits to bundle in, the GPU is on the main board too, so no extra AIB profits to worry about on the GPU.
DRAM will be a ‘fun’ one due to price fluctuations though.
Really depends on how much profit they want to make.
Quick question, can you buy a pc and run the same OS and version of steam that this pc they built uses? Im assuming its the same as steam deck. Just wondering if you could build it exactly the same outside just installing steam.
Sure.
I have a cheap $250 AMD APU based mini pc I bought off Amazon running SteamOS. I just used the Steam Deck restore USB image to install it. I imagine you could use the Steam Machine image the same way when its available.
What kind of performance are you getting with that? Wondering if I can pick up something like that to play some 2d platformers, maybe some low poly 3D stuff (think Overcooked or Moving Out). Been doing more of that stuff in my living room with my kids.
I haven’t had any issues yet with performance. Though I’ve been running it at 1080p and heaviest I’ve ran on it so far is Cats Quest 3.
You can, technically, but there are some caveats.
SteamOS is not a general purpose OS. It is optimized to run on the Steam Deck (plus the Frame and Gabecube I guess). Its software components are tested on a limited range of hardware (specifically AMD silicon), and it might not have certain optimizations and compatibility fixes that are required by other consumer hardware. It also probably has some proprietary bits, especially the firmware.
The best option is Bazzite. It’s not based on SteamOS, but it is built with a robust gaming experience in focus. You can even get it to boot directly into Steam Big Picture. Watch this loud Aussie man do it!
The other option is HoloISO, which is an independent reimplementation of SteamOS. Their intention is to get as close to the real SteamOS as possible. Hardware support is limited (especially nvidia).
Popping in to champion bazzite, it’s my daily use os and I’ve never found an os that’s as easy and clean to run. So far the only issue I’ve had is that it doesn’t support some laptop wifi cards out of the box.
You can do this now. But it’ll probably be more effort than using something like Bazzite. The image is available publicly. It just assumes a certain set of hardware (AMD GPU, for example). It might be enough to install the GPU drivers you need. Worst case, you might have to recompile the kernel. But all the user space configuration should be fine.
https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/65B4-2AA3-5F37-4227
This is going to come off as shilling for Valve, but it isn’t my intention.
I could entirely see Valve pricing the Steam Machine relatively affordably and this statement is ultimately a dig at how overpriced pre-built PCs and consoles can be.
“The Steam Machine outperforms 70% of current user PCs…we neglected to say that the majority of user PCs are overpriced for what they deliver.”
Even though LTT said valve gave a cold stare at a $500 price tag, the BOM estimate is sitting around $420 (compared to $300 for the deck).
If they follow the same path as the steam deck, they could still comfortably sell the base model at $600 or $550 if they want to get aggressive with consoles.
Valve basically broke even with the base model steam deck, so I’m assuming the remaining $100 per unit cost is all the external stuff like production shipping etc. They make profit on the higher level models by charging more for storage and OLED.
Valve’s plan was never to compete with consoles, but they’re sitting on a golden opportunity here with Xbox flailing in the water and being able to price match without loss. Their major blocker is the anti cheat holdouts though, and I don’t think they’ll be willing to change unless steam machine itself becomes very popular, which forms an annoying loop.
I think they’re probably having some great arguments behind the scenes on what point exactly they should settle on based off of the public response everyone is giving from this statement lol.
I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed in the price. From what I’ve read, and watched, its not going to be competitive like the Deck - it’ll be more expensive than the current consoles. I just have a feeling people are underestimating it this time around.
