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A Google spokesperson told Motherboard in a statement at the time of the unionization that it had “no objection to these Cognizant workers electing to form a union,” but that it would not bargain with them. “We are not a joint employer as we simply do not control their employment terms or working conditions—this matter is between the workers and their employer, Cognizant,” the spokesperson said.
NLRB seems to disagree. This will be an interesting case, I suspect …
So Google, like Amazon, is trying to play the “they work for a subcontractor that only supports us, so it’s their fault, not ours” card. I really want to see the NLRB smack this pattern down hard and set an example for all the other companies to try to avoid unionization by way of not directly hiring people.
NLRB changed their criteria for what is considered co-employment last month, widely broadening the definitions used to determine this status. Essentially, if a company has significant control (not just exclusive control) over any of a worker’s employment status or conditions, then they are considered a co-employer now. It used to be that a company needed exclusive or overriding control over another company’s employees to be considered a co-employer.
I’m certain we are going to see more lawsuits and legal challenges from employees because of this. I’m pretty certain there already are lawsuits from some other Google contractors over this exact thing; they are providing a case that Google is their co-employer due to the control they have over every aspect of their work.
That’s excellent news, especially for the employees of Amazon subcontractors handling warehouse and delivery operations.
Megacorps can get fucked. Pay your employees well or deal with the consequences.
NLRB contact details If workers provide a service, they should be allowed to bargain collectively to be adequately paid for that service. Full stop.
Google will simply find a different contractor company. Problem solved.
The article became increasingly redundant as it continued. The crux seems to be Google isn’t their employer. These workers work for a subcontractor, Cognizant. Cognizant performs services for YouTube Music.
Cognizant is refusing to bargain citing the ongoing relevant litigation* between its employees and Google.
- I’m not sure what the legal process is called for union claims.
Some of the employees are striking for 1 day.
It’s redundant because there’s basically a circular argument that G and C are using to not respond to the workers. Workers want to C negotiate with G on the terms of their work with G but C says they can’t because they’re just contracting with G. Then G says the workers can’t negotiate with G because they work for C. Both companies point the finger at the other as to why they can’t help and just give nothing back to the workers.
The article is confusing but it sounds like the union wants both C and G at the table, but C and G both agree that C should be the employer and G doesn’t need to join the talks. So C is saying, if you really want G to join, you’ll have to wait until the appeals are finished.
I’m guessing the union doesn’t want to negotiate with C, have C go to G with the terms and G refuse and just causing endless delays in a game of telephone bargaining.
Seems fairly obvious that they need to negotiate with their direct employer.
One idea of subcontractors is to split and delegate societal responsibility to others to appear to be clean. Surely the law is focused on Cognizant here, but the responsibility lies fully on Google, including their ability to intervene.
I’m very much pro-union, but meanwhile artists and creators who made that content in the first place are getting fucked by everyone
A YouTube creators’ strike isn’t an impossible notion. It’d just have to be led by a couple of big names, like a Mr. Beast type.
Mr Beast is the result of the trendy gen Z libertarian millionaire pipeline. He will never unionize nor support strikes.
There’s been enough creators that have had enough problems with YouTube that maybe something could happen. I’m not putting money on it or anything but it wouldn’t be that crazy.
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They could argue for
- a greater share of the value
- more certainty about being allowed to stay on the platform
Pretty much like anyone’s top two asks. More money, more security.
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No, it is not all upside. What has more value. Content people want to watch somehow. Or an empty “platform” that slurps up most of the gains.
I’m not saying there is no value inherent to platform’s. Merely pointing out the disingenuous nature of that argument.
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An empty platform has little value. Hundreds have gotten shut down for this very reason.
Content by and large makes the platform. Not the other way round. Yet the platform soaks up the lions share of the benefit. Leaving most who aren’t whales to see nothing at all. This is the problem google is very complicit with. I’m all for them making enough to sustain the service. I just think they owe far more than they are giving, to the content that made them.
Nebula is great. And is trundling along just fine. It could use some more promotion and love sure. But it’s goals aren’t the same as a behemoth like Google’s. Who’s talents aren’t in creating content, but promoting it.
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Creators would exist without the platform. They always have. But the platform definitely does bring value. The problem is that for a while now, greedy corporations have slowly been pushing the balance so that they received most of the benefit of everyone else’s work. It’s an overarching problem of capitalism that we need to deal with. But have been putting off for 50 to 60 years.
Going with what is happening in the SAG/AFTRA strike, perhaps the big names shouldn’t join the strike because they would come across as entitled, but they are more than welcome to donate towards the strike.
Artists, techies, and socialists need to come together. To build a platform focused on sustainability ultimately. Devoid of profit for the sake of profit. And more focused on meeting the needs of their members. No overpriced CEO or board of directors. Or layers of redundant management. Once the service costs are covered. Anything after that could be split somewhat proportionally within strict limits.
I’m on board with this idea, but I’m not sure where to start.
A lot of the basic pieces are in place. Torrenting/peer tube for distribution. Modern day royalty free codecs. Realistically the two biggest hurdles are how to monetize responsibly, and bringing people in. It’s something that in one shape or form will always require some small donation of time and resources. And it’s easier to convince someone to join a Ponzi scheme telling them you will make them wealthy. Than it is to get someone to join guaranteeing that you’ll never make them wealthy but you will try to make them secure in their lives.
This already exists, it’s called Nebula
This is a good thread and good comment to throw this up on:
https://youtu.be/PJSTFzhs1O4?si=3SalhKn7wN6dgUpP
Benn Jordan, perhaps better known as “The Flashbulb” as an EDM artist, has an excellent YouTube channel. This video dives into some details on how we could get artists paid, and stop getting our art jerked around by corporations. For less than we pay to not get free healthcare healthcare, you could have access to all copyright content, ad free, and artists would be better compensated.
It’s an idea worth spreading.
People use YouTube Music?
I’ll use it as long as they keep it bundled with YouTube Premium. The day they unbundle I’m out.
Yeah, if you do a fair amount of YouTube and want to support the creators without queuing up a bunch of ads it’s a pretty good deal.
6 family members for $15 a month and no YouTube ads. Also that money was basically paid for by Google Rewards. The Web App is good too. I don’t have to deal with CEF/Electron or any install really.
I think it’s 25 now :(
The Web site says $24 for 5 members. Is it different per location? How do you pay less?
Yeah, sorry that was bumped up recently though I was grandfathered for a long while. But that was the impetus for getting it back when it was just GPM.
It’s 6 actually (1+ 5 other members). My uncle basically paid for half of it.
It’s $22.99 for me now which includes YouTube Premium. Just YouTube Music (for 6) is $16.99. Individual $10.99 and Student $5.49.
I don’t use YouTube Music but I love using YouTube for my music. Tons of songs on there that just aren’t on either YouTube music or other services like Spotify.
You can listen to just the music that’s on YouTube via YouTube music. That’s one of the main reasons why I’m using YouTube music.
Yeah. You can search for and add any YouTube video to a playlist for YMusic. I do this all the time with various Indies, remixes, and foreign artists that are hard to find otherwise.
Yeah, I switced to YouTube music when Google Play music went away because that’s where I stored all of my music at. But The category is massive, especially for niche songs and you can choose to watch the video or just listen to the song, Also with a lot of the songs you can look at the lyrics in real time while the music’s playing and that’s kind of nice. Also ad free YT is nice.
Did they change it? The last time I tried it said a bunch of my songs weren’t available on YouTube music and I couldn’t use it cause of that.
Yes, and it’s great!
For me, every other music app is missing alot of the songs I want to listen to (Cover songs, and remixes are the big 2) and they are only available on yt music.
Same + foreign artists. Lots of J-Rock artists that are hard to find on Western music services, let alone other countries. Only stuff like K-Pop I can find consistently on Western music services just because of how in demand it is.
Soundcloud might be an alternative worth looking into. For the music I tend to search for, I find I’m more likely to find it on Soundcloud, and it can take years to migrate from SC to YTM.
While YTM and SC were both $10, putting up with the worse platform was a reasonable price for no YT ads. Now that the grandfathering is ending and the price is jumping to $14, for US folks, I’m feeling the pressure to migrate.
Totally. I was already in the ecosystem so it was only natural I go to Music when it was available. Is it better than Spotify? Shrug. Just different.
Spotify has invested significant $$ in upgrading their platform.
YTM lets you access user-uploaded content. With that comes more in the way of remixes and Indy artists. The platform itself is pretty dogshit, though.
Only because I get both YT Premium and YT Music for cheap ($4/month).
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Same. India?
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Which region did you sign up in?
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Revanced, yeah. Still sucks when you’re looking for an album and all of the songs are from the official channel except for one that some schlub uploaded which repeats the previous track as an intro, has the levels maxed across all channels and sounds like it was recorded with a USB lapel mic in a paper bag
Yeah, I just don’t pay for it lmao. Apps like InnerTune are great, rips them as mp3s and can use YouTube music radio system and lyrics.
YouTube Premium is so cheap, man. ₱159 (close to $3) per month. I gave up and exported my Spotify data for YouTube.
I mean, ReVanced, but yes. No way I’d pay for that shit.
A lot of FOSS music streaming apps (like ViMusic) use YT Music because you can access it for free. Doesn’t make them any tho.
Ever since Google destroyed Google Music i switched to Spotifly because at the time YouTube music couldn’t tell the difference between memes and music plus alot of my playlist was unavailable
Yeah it’s pretty good
YouTube Music is the enshitttified version of Google Play Music.
YTM: you have a vague hint of network reception, just wait for me to fail loading what I want to load before I consider letting you play your downloaded music.
Could you explain why you don’t like it?
I actually love the fact that all of the underground, unknown, not officially published music I’ve liked on YouTube is there with all my other music, including the stuff I’ve uploaded myself.
Put a large collection of albums into your “Library”.
Now try to pull up a list of a single artist’s albums within your Library.
The “Library” management is so remedial that it’s basically a joke. It can’t measure up to iTunes from 20 years ago. It’s completely unusable for a serious music collection.
It may be fine for people that just listen to singles and playlists, but every other music service can do that too, while also offering complete functionality elsewhere.
YouTube Music is a half-baked, half-complete product. It’s inexplicable that it exists when they literally just needed to do nothing but rebrand Google Play Music.
I completely agree, I miss gpm so much. There’s a lot wrong with it, especially if you have a big collection like you said, but another incredibly annoying thing is the radio for songs, bands, and even genres always seem to come back to the same stuff. I don’t find new music on ytm like I did in gpm
Is there a self-hosted alternative? Would love to do that.
Subsonic and airsonic work. They’re not “pretty” but they do the job and have decent mobile apps.
/c/unions is worth subbing to.
Time to stop using Gmail and YouTube. I had already avoided go░gle search for months now.
Over the last three or four months I had deleted all my FaceBook, Twitter, Reddit, Instagram accounts. And this made me want to avoid go░gle search.
Been using DuckDuckGo for a month or two. It’s mostly good enough for me.
I’ve been using it for years and have never looked back.
DDG is my default and a very good engine, however, it does struggle with search results in my native language.
You should. It uses Bing for its searches. So you are censored to oblivion.
What’s being censored? You have control over safesearch, and searching phrases verbatim returns all sites where that phrase exists.
Safesearch (NSFW) ≠ Censorship (Political, Government Posts, etc.)
I might be mistaken, but IIRC Bing is only one of the data sources DDG uses.
Gonna need to see a legit source on that that doesn’t read like right-wing nutjobbery or Russian botnik drivel.
DuckDuckGo is fine for some things, but if you want to do a search with a specific phrase in quotes, it doesn’t recognize it. I hate having to go back to Google for some searches, but sometimes it’s just better. I wish it wasn’t, but it is.
DuckDuckGo’s image search also leaves a lot to be desired.
I use duckduckgo but just throw in the google bang if I need specific functionality. Usually DDG is fine for me usually but it’s convenient to be able to switch quickly.
If you need Google search results but don’t want to use google try SearXng or Startpage
If you’re getting Google results, you’re using Google lol
Not exactly. It’s a privacy respecting front end so your data isn’t being sent to Google
You don’t need to do the quote thing in DDG. You can literally just search the quote, and maybe the domain it was hosted on. You will find what you’re looking for. DDG even has business profile widgets like google search does. I don’t even miss google search at all.
I don’t think you understand what I’m talking about. I’m talking about a search phrase that is partially in quotes for an exact match and partially not for an inexact match. Google handles that, DDG does not.
Just curious what’s wrong with saying Google?
You must be new to Lemmy. Grab a tinfoil hat from the box by the door.
Funny how the term “tinfoil” persists even though it hasn’t been used in over 70 years.
Easier to say than “aluminium”
“Aluminum” at least has 1 less syllable. But I usually just say “foil.” What else would I be talking about in that context?
“Aluminum” at least has 1 less syllable. But I usually just say “foil.” What else would I be talking about in that context?
a·lu·mi·num
tin·foil
(Sorry for the ‘ackshully’, but couldn’t resist.)
ACKSHULLY, I was referring to “aluminum” as opposed to “aluminium.”
One less than aluminium
Nooo. Those might be tampered. They could be bugged. Or they could have holes in them. Or the tin might be fake. Make your own.
Not special enough
Start your own email server!! Download all of your favorite channels! Sub to your fav youtubers patreons! If you need music, use Spotify until you amass a collection of digital/physical music! Use FireFox! Google does not need to have any grip on our digital lifestyles.
A Cognizant spokesperson told Motherboard in an email, “We have received the Alphabet Workers Union’s request for a Cognizant bargaining representative. The request put forward was for both Cognizant and Google to bargain. While we respect our associates’ rights to unionize, we firmly believe Cognizant is the sole employer of our associates. While the joint employer ruling remains unresolved, we cannot bargain at this time.”
“Google refuses to just admit that they are our employer, and then Cognizant is just using Google’s legal appeals as a scapegoat,” Marschner said. “That, honestly, is exactly why we filed for joint employer status in the first place. We knew that if we just tried to engage in collective bargaining with Cognizant, that’s exactly what they would do.”
wut
Google has a shell company, Cognizant, that hires and subcontracts people to Google. When the workers unionize, they’re unionizing against cognizant, not Google. The workers are trying to say otherwise, will more than likely need a court case to sort it out.
Cognizant is very much NOT a Google shell company, they are a third-party contractor with business in healthcare, tech, energy, insurance, education, etc.
My bad, I was thinking of Amazon and their delivery “companies”
This isn’t right. Cognizant are a well known systems integrator. In Australia alone recently they bought out some of the best local SIs just to get presence - contino and Servian, with a rumoured third (versent) on the way…
Theyre a body shop looking to grow their born in the cloud generstion of engineers.
Everybody’s striking! LFG!
Google:
Don’t be evil.PROFIT UBER ALLES!!!I just want to see more strikes. 🙂
I get the technicality of all this, but this could be a watershed moment. Businesses like to contract people out to move liability and cut corners in their obligations to the workers. The bottom line is that its cheaper and easier to fire whatever contractors you don’t like for any reason, and artificially push their salaries/wages down.
Look at Fedex Ground, Amazon drivers, etc. Google is now firmly in the role of the bad guy here, with Sundar Pichai making 220+ million dollars with much of it on the backs of layoffs and ethnically bankrupt business practices. I honestly think the ramifications of this in a positive way for the workers is tantamount to the formation of the UAW itself with their sitting strikes. They sat at the machines and forcibly halted production.
That needs to happen here, and all you scabs, fuck you. You can just piss off.
I can’t believe I’m saying it but but I’m with Google here. They are sub-cons so negotiation would surely go through their employer who is cognizant. I’m a sub-contractor, I’m not gonna go to the client and ask for a raise, I’m gonna go to my employer. Maybe it’s different in different regions but if I asked the client for a raise in the uk they would probably just laugh at me.
Outsourcing in Europe is heavily scrutinised and regulated due to companies kept choosing to depend on third party agencies do they don’t have to do with strikes and unions.
Yeah thinking about it more, you’re definitely right. I’ve only ever been a W-2 employee (United States) so I know nothing about this kind of thing. If they are employees of another company, they should bargain with them instead, and force them (via strike if required) to negotiate a new contract with Google. I’m very pro worker and support striking to get results but you have to make sure you’re targeting the right business to get the results you want.
You missed the plot. They found a loophole and are probably conspiring to halt the Union. One company says they have to wait for the other to negotiate, the other company says they won’t negotiate because they are not their employees. The whole process enters into a permanent delay, workers get fucked by both companies for months. This is a tale as old as unions have existed. It’s one of the reasons why in most sane countries, unrestricted outsourcing is not allowed and outsourcing in general is heavily regulated. It’s one of the most common tools companies use to abuse workers and avoid responsibilities.
And in that time, they’ll set up a new shit call center under new shit management under a new shitty partner/reseller/vendor and just close that first contract down entirely.
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You are 100% correct, so it is especially funny seeing that almost 1/4 of the people downvoted you for no good reason. Holy fuck this site has a huge percentage of utterly clueless Lemmings.
could they put bring the dislike count back on the demands? and make so video posters can’t delete comments, so we can call bullshit when needed? that would be nice
No they have bigger priorities, like retroactively demonitizing and removing videos that used to be just fine under the new ruse of “making everything more kid friendly” when we all know it’s to make it more advertiser friendly
If only there were an app… suited for kids that google could use… One that would give them the limitations and safety they want from people and not ruin the whole site while still chasing those kid viewers.
If only such a thing existed.
make so video posters can’t delete comments
That would be a complete trainwreck. There are already loads of spam accounts but it would be so much worse if creators couldn’t filter them out.
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Yea, no…the headline is wrong on this one. These guys are contractors. Google will just nuke Cognizant’s contract and call it a day.
Those guys aren’t particularly good in my experience and are just warm bodies to do things that should be automated anyway.
Google will simply go to another big contract firm and call it a day.
The NLRB ruled that the nature of their work makes them employees of both Cognizant and Google, despite whatever those companies try to classify them as, and that both are required to negotiate with the union. Google is now just flat-out refusing to respect that decision.
That’s cool n all…but what happens when Google drops the contract?
I was a “contractor” for JnJ. Which ok, is a different company but it’s the same premise. The reason they contract the work out is so they can avoid giving benefits and cut costs for an essential job. All so when something like this happens they can just pass the buck off to the contracting company saying it’s not their responsibility for the working conditions they set.
I’m so glad bootlickers like you enjoy the taste of shoe leather. It makes the working class so much more unified.
Don’t work on contract…then things like this don’t happen.
Can I also live in your fantasyland where you get choices like this?
Sure…get a bachelor’s in STEM.
