It’s wild just how much they’re trying to shove AI down our throats.
Oh, the same company that screenshots your content even if you use it as a dumb display? Who could’ve predicted this!
I read somewhere Samsung does it too. Not surprised at all if they all do it, along wiht the streaming sticks.
I mean considering that broadcasters have been viewing our watching habits ever since the inception of TV this is really no different.
Those viewing stats were the result of polling and maybe some heuristics, but it’s not possible to measure how many receiving stations are tuned to a TV or radio frequency
You’ve obviously never heard of the Nelson rating system. They very much insult boxes on top of people’s TVs that were known as Nelson family’s to actually watch their viewing habits and track it. And then they were able to estimate based on the number of TVs sold in that area what was being viewed.
Its a bit different from opting into being a nelson family vs obfuscating opting you in automatically and recording all of your TV watching
this is really no different.
For some, yeah. But with the way things are running in politics, we’re 6 inches away from Sony demanding to see our viewing logs to make sure we’re not pirating.
Today’s data collection is tomorrow’s felony conviction.
I mean, sony has already installed rootkits under the pretense of DRM. Back in 2005
Even if the cats are out of the bag, i’d like to remove as many privacy leaks as possible.
I need someone to explain to me, what situation could possibly arise that would require me to use Copilot on my fucking TV?
The same reason why windows has that stupid desktop search - so that some twat with an MBA can brag about user engagement and justify his existence. Also, to hoover up user data for slop machine training.
At least you can turn that search thing off!
Don’t think about what copilot can do for you that’s some socialism talk!, think about how it could squeeze profits and data from your instead ~Microsoft lunatics
This is like how I save money on internet by having cable I don’t watch.
The execs just want that cable subscriber number to go up so they effectively pay me to have it.
They had the same thing with landlines for a while.
Play the movie where Darth Vader dies.
Of course there are features enabled by ai. But to force it down our throats, that’s the problem.
I believe we’re talking about the “number go up” scenario
“Go away, I’m batin’!”
I’ll throw my money at any TV manfucturer that just sells me a dumb OLED TV with great picture quality. Heck, even drop the speakers, I won’t be using them anyway. Just a dumb panel with plenty of input/outputs.
Sceptre has some dumb models.
The LG TVs are basically that if you just ignore the LG ui. You can plug in whatever input you want and have it automatically go there on power on
I never see the LG UI. Only my nvidia shield
You’ll never get a high quality panel like you want because there’s only so many that produce the panels. And without a value add nobody makes any money.
FYI, LG and Samsung were both confirmed to take and upload periodic screenshots, whether you’re using native apps or an external input.
Shitty article with guide to disable ACR: https://appleinsider.com/inside/mac/tips/how-to-stop-your-lg-or-samsung-smart-tv-from-tracking-you (you might want to block traffic altogether knowing what they are ok with doing)
Primary source for finding: https://arxiv.org/abs/2409.06203
Thanks for the link. Looks like I had already turned it off.
Is not online
The last time I said basically this same thing, someone recommended something…I think it was an industrial TV or something? I can’t remember!
Industrial TVs or computer monitors, yeah, but that’s only a matter of time and the former are expensive.
Edit: also projectors.I think there are “smart” monitors now with these things being built in.
It’s most Samsung who just put the TV OS on a monitor.
They are on a technical level always identical so you just end up with two skus for the same product. One witb and one with out the OS.
So it’s not that bad… Yet…
My company received an email from Microsoft this week.
“From our data you are not selling Ai features as much as your competitors and we suggest that you start changing this or you will be left behind.”
It was a completely bullshit email. But the stupids at my company are now worried that Microsoft is tracking the features we’re selling with our computers. Like if that wasn’t the most glaring red flag “we have spent way too much money on this and we need you to prove we aren’t dumbasses” I don’t know what is.
I still will not sell Ai outside of its basic uses. And I’m backed up by the old heads in my department. Ai is not for everything.
One day, literally every Gsuite product immediately and incessantly started nagging us to use Gemini. Fortunately our tech staff quickly switched it all off. We have slowly been re-enabling features that are useful like meeting transcriptions. I just wish these corporations could have more restraint. In previous waves of improvement in tech, usage dictated investment in new products. These days, they seem to feel the need to coerce us to use their products as they insist we should. I think users are getting fatigued by this dynamic. I used to be the first to install every update and try new apps and products. These days, I’m excited when I can stop using a product, and I don’t think it’s just due to age. It means I can stop having to be vigilant about some company I know is searching for ways to exploit me.
Yeah the MBA guys who pushed enshitification were empowered because their strategies made more money so they must know what they are doing right? Now things don’t happen because they are better they happen because these guys think there is money. And the guys who used to pick the best ideas are out being rich somewhere
I think this rollout could have been handled better. I am generally pro AI but I do think there are tasks it does not handle well (yet?) and places it is unnecessary or just shouldn’t be used. On the other hand though I do think that it is partly age and being in tech a while you tend to get fatigued. Giddily wanting to try all the latest stuff only really works when the technology is new and immature or that you are new to the technology. People have been around digital technology for a while now so it’s no longer exciting.
In general its just wasteful use of power for answers that are easily found in other ways.
Answering questions is not the only thing it’s used for. Lol.
The stats show people are using it for things like multiple my meal by 18% tip, or give me web link to x product. Instead of using a calculator app, or re gular search. Meanwhile the AI companies are having to build power station. People are stupid, and we will ruin out world because of idiots
Every time I search for a simple answer Google suggests I use Gemini instead, or they show me a “switch to AI mode” pop up that covers the lower third of my screen. I’ve just started receiving emails about using it on my old Gmail account apropos of nothing. These companies are begging people to waste that energy.
And then they’re gonna say “see? Look how many people are using this! I deserve a bonus.” When it’s a setting that’s just on by default.
Yep, you can turn off some of it with the flags settings https://pureinfotech.com/disable-ai-mode-address-bar-new-tab-chrome/
You are the cream of the crop, somehow you not only knew this, you decided that this needs to be shared, even though anyone with electricity has been told this hundreds of times.Thank yooooooooouuuuuuu
Last year I quit a job that added AI use to performance reviews.
It was basically “if we’re not all in on AI our competitors will be, we all need to learn it”.
Nobody paid for their product for AI before, they paid for a product that was simple and reliable so that their business didn’t have to worry about issues and could dicks on their core competencies.
I watched some sheisters build some impressive money furnaces, they got the praise while I got sidelined for pointing out the costs. I literally showed the forecasted costs of tens of thousands a week on basically a vanity feature with no payout, and the execs all said yeah that was fine, it’s AI. Then two months later they were asking me why our costs went up so much and why they didn’t know that would happen, and I just pointed to my date stamped presentation of the numbers and meeting notes they approved (and my numbers were 99% accurate to the true costs).
When execs ignore my advice and warnings I leave.
Sorry to hear that. It’s wild. Dell is doing a 30% price hike because of prices. Announced today. I expect us to follow.
That’s not my worst one. I did an analysis for one company which took 2 months since their data was such a mess. They were spending at least $10m/year (20 high comp devs) developing a product that was pulling in 8k/year. They did not have a path to growing revenue 1000x on that one, when I told the ceo and he doubled down that it was a bet they wanted to make. They really just wanted the nice slide deck for the board.
I checked in a year later and they were still working on it. Two years later they mothballed it. They could have saved millions by listening to me.
For your protection!
“This technology is so useful we’re going to force it on you every way we can think of”
Who the fucks connect tv to the internet
Straight to the work bench, remove the back, physically remove the wifi adapter, replace back of TV. Yay, i am ready for xbox.
If I had done that, I would have never gotten the firmware update to enable VRR support on my HDMI 2.1 ports…
There’s probably a procedure to load firmware from USB. Maybe.
Probably not unless you have the signing keys.
Buy products based on the features they have out of the box, not promises about future updates
The controversy centers on a Reddit post in the r/mildlyinfuriating subreddit, where a user lamented the unexpected addition of Copilot following an automatic update. The post, which garnered thousands of upvotes and comments, describes the AI tool appearing as a non-deletable app on the TV’s interface.
“Widespread backlash” 🙄
AI generated summary for sure
Honestly, though this is the definition of “widespread backlash” when it comes to red pilled garbage. So I’ll take it.
This comes up a lot, and I don’t necessarily get it. I have all smart TVs, and I just never, ever, EVER let them connect to wifi even ONCE for any reason. It’s not like it NEEDS it for anything.
It’s not like it NEEDS it for anything.
I see this take online a lot, but in person, everywhere I go people play netflix and whatever directly on their TV. I think there might just be a huge divide in perspective between those with and without game consoles of some sort always connected to their TV.
Totally, although the thing is I bet one day tvs will come with a built in sim card, or worst yet will disable themselves until there’s an active internet connection or some other scummy method
That’s the point when I will get a dumb corporate TV with a streaming dongle or media server connected via HDMI or DP…
Those don’t really exist anymore though.
There are displays and I will get them.
If I can’t afford it, I will not get any TV and use my computer or phone ¯\_(ツ)_/¯Fuck that whole industry. If they force me, I will do it another way.
I think they kind of do the active Internet part now. I don’t watch television and haven’t touched a TV for a long time, but recently I had to help a neighbour set his new smart TV up. It was one of the big brands, I don’t remember if it was LG, Samsung or something else. The TV couldn’t go through initial set up without me installing some app on his phone. If there was an option to skip I couldn’t see where it was, I only assume that if it was possible it was intentionally made un-intuitive or hard to discover. And of course, if you want the TV to connect to the app you must connect it to Internet. Again, it may have been a failure on my part, but I wouldn’t be supprised if they intentionally forced the user to do it this way.
Samsung had something similar on their cheaper phones (the A series) where during the initial set up it asks you to login or create a Samsung account and you have to jump through a couple of hoops to skip it, as well as some other part where I don’t remember what the phone asked you to do, but the “Yes” option was blue, while the button to skip was intentionally colored the same or very similar shade of gray as an inactive button. So if the TV was Samsung I don’t doubt for a second that they will do some shady practice like that.
Agreed. And that’ll be the time I’m up in arms.
This right here is the answer. There are so many devices you can plug into those things that you don’t really need the crap that they installed natively.
Not to mention they often cheap out on both the software and hardware, so you end up having to slowly navigate through poorly designed UIs that it struggles to display.
This shit is why more people now have dabbled in DNS blocking and vlans. Its “your” equipment but you need to literally treat it as hostile.
Anything you didn’t program yourself should be assumed hostile.
Lots of open source gets a pad because grumpier people than me review it and they seem to have good taste, but I still don’t blindly trust it.
Well LG did me a favor. Don’t buy LG tvs, Samsung appliances or HP printers.
Well, at least LG has a range of TVs turned monitors, i.e. without all that “smart” shit. So they have a usable alternative, something other vendors don’t.
Don’t buy LG anything. Everything I’ve bought from them has suckes
I’ve had good luck with their mid-high end kitchen appliances and washer/dryer.
Not impressed with the TV and the AI update made the UI very slow and unresponsive. Next one will not be LG.
Unfortunately, it was just that: good luck. All appliances from Samsung and LG are notorious in the market space for premature failure. If we had a functioning consumer protection agency, they wouldn’t be able to even sell something of such poor reliability.
I have learned to never update any tv or media player, it usually becomes worse. :)
It may be possible to factory reset to the version you got from the beginning. Just have to figure out how.
I have a freezer from them, it has worked well. Took a chance on the brand. But now it seems the display has broke after 3 years only… Hmm.
Your freezer has a display?
Yeah its a touch display that allows the user to set temperature and other settings, and its showing the current temperature inside. But unfortunately i think it has broke. The freezer still runs but I cant change any settings now. One day I will try to unpower it but im afraid to do it. :) Who knows if it will start…
Their washing machines are good
Hard disagree. Please, everyone, research impartial product reviews before you buy any appliance. Your appliance lifespans should be measurable in decades.
Try a Speed Queen and then get back to me.
We have had great luck with our LG microwave. It’s well over ten years old and the one issue we’ve had was caused by user error. Our two year old LG tv is meh. The backlighting is uneven; our much older Samsung looks much better.
I’ve only ever bought LG phones, they made a couple of duds but largely they were great, they died rather than going to shit.
I need a new phone eventually though. :(
Needs to be illegal.
Yeah, changing hardware operating software after purchase should be restricted.
At minimum, should be forced to allow trash software to be removed.
So glad I blocked my LG C1 from the internet ages ago. Haven’t received updates in forever, don’t care. It’s a TV, it shows pictures. I even still have it LAN enabled so it can be controlled via Home Assistant automations, it just can never leave the home network, and that’s how I like it.
I can’t even remember how long ago I set it up to do this, I think it was when I heard rumor they’d be including ads in the UI, maybe 2023 or so.
So it talks to your media box exclusively and your media box summons the streaming services?
I’ve got a Home Assistant server hooked into homekit with voice (via an Apple HomePod). I can say something like “turn on home theater” and it will turn on the receiver, TV, and Apple TV, and will set the receiver to the Apple TV’s input.
Then, other automations. Like, I’ve got a Lytmi Fantasy 3 Pro light strip behind my TV, and when I launch video (via streaming, plex, whatever) on the Apple TV, it will automatically turn off the living room lights except for the color strip. Then if I stop or pause the video, it will turn them back on. Stuff like that.
Only drawback is the TV doesn’t do wake on LAN unless you use the ethernet connection. If you want it wireless, you gotta use CEC instead, but that’s not too big a deal.
Who’s going to step up and start creating a “dumb” version of absolutely everything? One brand dedicated to just making the thing do the thing it absolutely must do and nothing else.
Would be great but the manufacturer would be at a disadvantage because that bundled bullshit effectively subsidizes the device. So you’d have to either raise prices or accept a lower profit margin.
Due to the high barrier of entry (e.g. because of patents) it’s unlikely that a privately owned company can make a big market entry, especially across countries. And a public company will be forced by the shareholders to maximize profit so either you bundle crapware or they fire you as CEO.
Of course if you look outside the TV market such devices already exist. High-quality digital signage devices can easily be had – for about three times the price of an equivalently-sized TV.
So you’d have to either raise prices or accept a lower profit margin.
Isn’t that the point and the main benefit of competitive markets?
Agreed, regarding barriers to entry though. They need to be addressed.
Wonder if avoiding the HDMI forum and only having open source ports like DP would reduce cost.
It might but most devices only use HDMI. DP is pretty much only used by PCs.
Maybe the GPMI consortium decides to make their standard open; that might help. But I don’t see DP catching up to HDMI; HDMI is too entrenched.
Why do they need incoming profit after the purchase? We’ve had single purchases for 70 years and they’ve done fine. Set the price above the price of materials. Boom profit. Transaction over.
I don’t know if they get a share or if they get a flat payment for every device that has crap preinstalled. Either way, not doing it would reduce profits and therefore go against the interest of the shareholders who would then have grounds to the CEO for failing to do their job.
I’m very much unhappy with how that works but it’s a consequence of how publicly traded companies work. Companies that make it their legally binding goal to maximize shareholder gains attract more investors, have more money, and are thus more effective in increasing their market share. Over time they outcompete their rivals until the market is dominated by maximally profitable companies.
At that point, shit-free products are only available if there is a clear indication that they will generate more profit than shitty products. And the handful of major players will happily collude to make sure only shitty products enter the market, increasing profits for everyone. Welcome to cartelville, population: the three companies that make up 95% of the world market.
Some premium brands like Bang & Olufsen sell TVs without adware, I think Panasonic TVs are mostly ad-free for now. Outside of that, most big brands will have “professional” or “commercial” product lines that also don’t have ads. But in all cases you’ll have to pay extra over the TVs subsidized by ads.
pay extra over the TVs subsidized by ads.
Let’s be very clear, they are not and never were “subsidised by ads”. Ads just became a new way to extract more money from customers.
https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV-category1category73.html
All their TVs are dumb. We’re moving to a new house next year, and I decided all our TVs will be Sceptre.
Some premium brands like Bang & Olufsen sell TVs without adware,
Well, their TVs start around $9k and get up to about $30k. That’d be kinda crazy if they play ads like other brands do.
are mostly ad-free for now.
Mostly?
Is that already considered some kind of quality?
You can often buy the “digital signage” of TVs. Same pannel, but it’s just a screen. I think it’s targetting businesses but you can buy them too!
I will if you start a go fund me to raise enough money to.
Yeah, me too. I’ve already been wanting to make refrigerators. How hard can it be? I assume shitty regulations are the biggest holdup.
FYI, it won’t let you delete Alexa either. I hate that fucking thing.
This comes in handy…
Smart TV OSes help TV-makers stay afloat in an industry with thin margins on hardware. Not only do they provide ad space, but they also give OS operators and their partners information on how people use their TVs—data that is extremely valuable to advertisers.
I turn my tv on, turn it to whatever channel, and then I just go about my business. I even leave the house. Go to work. Ect.
So if I had a smart tv, I they would get info like “oh, he’s been watching tv for 36 hours straight…”
Meanwhile, I may have watched 3 hours combined at different times.
Oh, you want to pay these companies more money, because more people are watching? Ok…but I’m not even home. I’ve been at work for 5 hours. I just turn the TV on so it looks like someone is home.
Wait until the add cameras, telescreen style…
If you root your lg oled you can truly block automatic updates. You can also install ad free youtube with sponsorblock integrated plus a bunch of other stuff that is of varying utility depending on your use case.
In general though just don’t connect it to the internet and get a $100 box for jellyfin from china (ugoos am6b+ works great and can playback basically anything but av1 natively if you flash Coreelec, the android side can still run streaming apps if you insist or iptv apps like tv mate since iptv support in kodi/jellyfin suuuucks).
Lg has proven they don’t respect consent by silently opting you in to data collection with updates. The updates never add features or bug fixes, just ugly UI changes and shit like this. It’s almost never worth updating unless someone is specifically saying “you should update, it fixes/adds ____
In the future don’t support them but at the same time it’s the “who the fuck can you support/oh you use an iphone under capitalism” problem. Yeah you don’t need a big tv, you don’t need an oled, you can buy a far more expensive commercial display, etc. I dunno
ugoos am6b+ works great and can playback basically anything but av1 natively if you flash Coreelec, the android side can still run streaming apps if you insist or iptv apps like tv mate since iptv support in kodi/jellyfin suuuucks
Not Netflix though, right?
We cancelled our Netflix subscription earlier this year, but I am just curious. To my understanding to install Netflix you have to use trash tier HTPC devices.
The android side should be able to run Netflix with Dolby vision/hdr/atmos though I have not tested this because I don’t have an account.
The reason it works for Dolby vision playback in kodi/core elec is because it’s licensed. That’s why you end up having to dual boot, you need to retain the blobs on the android side to make the DV profiles work. It’s fucking dumb and Dolby vision is dumb and proprietary but technically superior but hdr10+ is open but lg doesn’t support it, it’s all fucking dumb. HTPCs dont work great with DV, at least for pirated content (not sure about streaming). They’ll play some profiles with specific software configurations but not all. Generally you end up tonemapping
Anyway it’s licensed for Dolby vision because it’s primarily meant as a box for streaming apps, so I assume Netflix/hbo max/etc would work. I don’t have accounts so I don’t know. I only use the android side for iptv
For DV it’s understandable. IMO Dolby and DTS are kinda of a scam (e.g. their lossless codecs). They are welcome to make authoring tools, but the standards should always be open and not subject to unaccountable entities that operate in a unreliable jurisdiction.
The reason I am asking about Netflix is because we got a relatively powerful Chinese Android set-top box (that is supported by a local distributor) and it couldn’t play videos in the Netflix Android app or even when logging in via web browser. The distributor said that Netflix support requires a license. After doing some research, this seems to be true for many non-American brands.
We cancelled Netflix and we are not buying any new subscriptions from American firms. I am just curious about the whole license issue.
Just out of curiosity I tried downloading the Netflix app and while that does work I couldn’t be bothered to make a trial account as it appears I need to give them a host of info including cc.
Looking online in kodi forums it appears the issue you describe is correct and ugoos lost Netflix certification though a newer option, the kinhank g1 may retain Netflix certification and still provide profile 7 FEL dv playback.
This is why I don’t support Netflix and instead keep media in jellyfin. Dolby/dts and even hdmi are fucking awful but I can at least work around them and ensure my hardware is in a working state. As long as I ensure new hardware and software additions will work I’ll be okay because worst case scenario I can just freeze things as they are and kick myself for adopting an lg oled or whatever. Netflix/hulu/disney/etc control of my content library? No way, it’s constantly at their whim. Revoke a license for perfectly capable machine because fuck you that’s why
From what I remember, downloading, installing and logging in worked, but we couldn’t play any videos. Logging in worked on the WebUI too. That’s why initially thought this was some sort of technical issue specific to my setup or perhaps even a bunk unit (even though it could play multiple containers/codecs from the NAS).
I was honestly shocked to discover that Netflix requires per device licensing. I can sort of understanding quality restrictions on some devices, even though the DRM is broken albeit the crack is not fully public (you can easily find even 4K WEB-DL copies on the internet), but per device licensing for playback is ridiculous. They don’t even allow WebUI usage!
Who do they think they are? This is clearly an example of oligopoly corruption, on par with the russian oligarchy that de facto operates in the technology services sphere with state management (even though from my experience, the US commoner would strongly disagree with such a characterization).
Well good thing they’ll own hbo max soon
HBO Max isn’t really a thing in my country. Although I was surprised to find out that they do allow you to sign up; Shudder which I would be willing to pay money for gives me a page with following text:
Sorry, we are not available in your country
That’s the whole page. Well, I will continue to use alternative sources for procuring your 1st party content if you don’t want to take my money.
