the school went on lockdown after federal agents were spotted in the area
I just want to call attention to the fact that this is where we are as a country. The mere presence of federal employees is causing schools to go into lockdown.
If that’s not a clear indication that things are broken, I don’t know what is.
Half the country loves this btw.
This cant be overstated enough. 70 million people absolutely love what’s happening.
Thats alot of pieces of shit.
Need a COVID for conservatives
It killed lots of them, but it had weakened by the time it spread to the rural states so it didn’t kill as quickly as the first wave in the big cities.
I’m still impressed that bird flu hasn’t made the jump to humans yet, that would be an extremely aggressive disease that would kill a lot of people, as most diseases that jump from animals to humans. Republicans have been lucky that their cuts to any and all disease controls haven’t resulted in it spreading freely
Oh, give it time.
We need to make it extremely unpleasant for those people
Much less than half, but they are a very noisy and emboldened group.
If you can get the apathetic and politically uninvolved to start caring, you can easily outnumber the MAGAts.
Good luck. They think by not caring, the country will fix itself and then justify not caring because everything’s falling apart. Makes no sense.
Do they really? I’ve seen a lot of comments supporting this shit, but I always thought they were propaganda bots…
We can’t really know what the non-eligible voting population believes, but in the 2024 General Election, ~34% voted Republican, ~32% voted Democrat, ~1% voted 3rd party, and ~33% didn’t vote.
It’s more like at least a third of the country loves this, probably a little more although I have to imagine that some Republicans have soured on Trump, and that not all Republicans share the cult of personality idolization.
and they have propaganda that either frames it as a liberal hellhole, or they dont report it
Fear has no place in school. Oh, this is America. Nevermind.
For all the larpers here demanding violent response, here’s the link to Judge Karen Immergut’s final decision of November 7, 2025 kicking the National Guard out of Portland, Oregon.
https://www.opb.org/pdf/FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW_1762564569662.pdf
You don’t have to read the whole thing. In fact, you don’t have to read more than the first (long) paragraph to understand that the courts are still largely defending the Constitution, and that it was the lack of violent response to Trump’s provocations that caused her to rule against keeping the National Guard in Portland. I’ve added line breaks, but this is the first paragraph:
On September 27, 2025, the President of the United States federalized 200 members of the Oregon National Guard over the objection of Oregon’s governor and deployed them to a single federal building in Portland, Oregon. In the ensuing days, the President ordered the deployment of 400 federalized members of the Texas and California National Guards, all to the same federal building in Oregon. The mission of these deployments of military troops was ostensibly to quell violent protests outside the one-block Immigration and Customs Enforcement (“ICE”) building in Portland.
But after a three-day trial that included the testimony of federal, state, and local law enforcement officials and hundreds of exhibits describing protest activity outside the Portland ICE building, the evidence demonstrates that these deployments, which were objected to by Oregon’s governor and not requested by the federal officials in charge of protection of the ICE building, exceeded the President’s authority.
While violent protests did occur in June, they quickly abated due to the efforts of civil law enforcement officers. And since that brief span of a few days in June, the protests outside the Portland ICE facility have been predominately peaceful, with only isolated and sporadic instances of relatively low-level violence, largely between protesters and counter-protesters.
When considering these conditions that persisted for months before the President’s federalization of the National Guard, this Court concludes that even giving great deference to the President’s determination, the President did not have a lawful basis to federalize the National Guard under 10 U.S.C. § 12406. (emphases and line breaks added by me)
And then, specifically BECAUSE of the non-violent response of Portland, in every successive paragraph Judge Immergut labeled the order to move the National Guard into Portland UNLAWFUL.
A violent response is NOT the answer at this point in time. I guarantee we will ALL know when it is. Save your shot.
In the meantime, my fellow countrymen, beware of larpers who don’t even live in the US, much less in Minneapolis, trying to whip up rage and get people to fight. It’s not their blood that will be shed, not their families destroyed, not the last shreds of their democracy thrown into the cesspit of an impotent orange excrescence’s lust for power and unending greed: it will be our own.
If you’re here to say you think people should fight, all you’re really telling me is that you’ve never had to fight, you don’t know how it works, you won’t be the one to pay the price in your own blood, AND you want Trump to consolidate his power even faster than he already is by giving him reason to occupy cities with the National Guard, declare martial law, and avoid having midterm elections. Think twice.
In the meantime, my fellow countrymen, beware of larpers who don’t even live in the US, much less in Minneapolis, trying to whip up rage and get people to fight.
This bears repeating. I’ve seen it in every political thread here on lemmy.world for the last year. Every, single, time, some troll crashes into the thread and promotes escalation and violence. And every time someone takes the bait and gets into an argument, swamping half the visible comment area, effectively pushing out any sane discourse about a smarter way to deal with this. It’s hard to see it happen with such regularity and not imagine this to be calculated and deliberate.
To this I say: let’s treat our political forum spaces like a protest. Stay civil. Call out provocateurs but don’t engage directly. Downvote and report to admins. Freeze these trolls out of the conversation, and let’s keep putting our heads together.
Thank you for saying this. I do not believe any of them are posting in good faith, and when challenged rely on logical fallacies and emotionally charged non-factual or barely factual statements.
They’re here solely to inflame and incite. No other conclusion left to draw.
I just tell the trolls to address the rising right wing threat in their own country, because wherever they’re from, it’s happening there, too.
As an outsider; there’s always plenty of trolls out there, but I think a lot of the recent calls for violence stem from tons of people outside being really scared right now. The head of the state of USA just kidnapped a leader of another nation in a military operation and is threatening to attack and conquer part of another sovereign state, which even has been allied with USA for a long time. So from Europe especially it looks like your country has turned on us and become a real threat, and you are lead by unhinged megalomaniac controlling the worlds largest army, that might actually do as he says; collapse NATO and start another great war.
Seeing video footage of someone being brutally murdered by the state has truly shocked people in my country as well - something like that is incredibly alarming, and combined with your leaders threats of war, to us it basically looks like fascists have taken over your country already. Considering the history of ww2 and the rise of nazis is still well known and remembered in Europe, it’s easy to jump into conclusions about where this seems to be leading into, since we are barely getting news about any resistance happening.
All this combined with scared people thus logically ends up with pleas to do anything to stop ww3 from happening, since it is your country threatening to start it
I agree with every word you wrote. Now imagine being a citizen of that country that is threatening WWIII in your name. and completely against your will while all around you its adherents act like they’re in a cult and babble sound bites and nonsense at you while you watch them work toward blowing the world up.
You have no idea how many of us are on your side, because even our media goes at the worst of these excesses with a “both sides the same” approach. I personally am terrified, but I’m old enough to know that wars always last longer than people think they will. Save your shot and use it for maximum effect.
Protests do work; violence does not. We’ve had a lot of violent protests in the US in the last few years, but none of them are viewed as successes. There’s a reason for that. Getting people riled up to do stupid things helps no one but the oppressor. Cop City was built for this, and they started that what, ten years ago? That’s how long they’ve been preparing. And Alligator Alcatraz has thousands of beds . . . for deportees? No. Deportees get deported, you don’t hold them. They waited until the infrastructure was ready, and now they are so prepared for anyone who wants to go violent, because they want that, and will use that to declare martial law. And we, the resistance, is only just starting!
What we need and want is for the fence-sitters among us to join the protest, and that does not happen with violence. Violence repels the non-involved and gives them a reason to turn away.
Calls to violence that lead to violence are exactly what this regime wants. Why do you advocate giving them anything at all? There are many ways to manage emotions that do not involve calling other people to fight in the streets. If we see violence in the streets, that means the regime is fully in place and we are now under martial law: in that instance everyone should fight as much as they want.
But until then, be wise. This is only the beginning. If anyone wants to make a REAL difference, then instead of calling for others to shed their blood for you, you decide what you can do where you are, using what you have, to make a start. If you’re not in the US it really helps when YOU protest! And of course here we can each do what we can. We haven’t even tried a general strike, and that would be our next best step.
Canadian here: it is important to us that you resist your fascist regime. We need you to do that just as much you need to do that for yourselves. It is also extremely important to deeply understand that resistance is NOT a binary switch that flips between “nothing” and “armed resistance”. At this stage in the game, in the US, you guys need to be doing a whole lot more of non-armed and institutional resistance. You need extreme pettiness. Make the trumpofascists pay a price in annoyance every step of the fucking way.
For example, call your senators and congresspeople, even the more radical left ones, and ask them why they are not calling for votes for every fucking little thing that depends on unanimity.. Then threaten to primary those that don’t. RESIST OR GET OUT OF THE WAY.
Then, the question goes to the mayors the ones that bluster with “gtfo ICE”. Why are they not doing road reconstruction in front and round ICE facilities? Why are there no incessant pipe maintenance requests at the sewers and cables and water mains that feed those compounds? RATFUCK THEM.
Then the question goes to the merchants. Why are there no “we don’t sell to ICE” signs on shops around their compounds? Why is it commercially viable to NOT have a policy like that? Why are they contracting work to them? Why is any private entity in the ICE supply chain not being constantly threatened with boycotts and divestment? MAKE IT TOXIC TO WORK WITH THEM.
Do I need to keep going, or do people get the idea?
Beyond that, realize that you have to start small, then build up: https://youtu.be/vvaquOcNEKI Armed resistance is the worst case scenario endgame. Not the start.
Removed by mod
EDITED TO ADD: This is a 22-hour old account, whose only content is the above comment containing a misguided pastiche of current and historical points designed to produce an emotional response. This is exactly the kind of larper Americans need to be aware of.
Sometimes? No, always. The cost is ALWAYS blood. People have ALREADY died. It’s you who are naive.
I just posted the court order: BECAUSE Portland did not resist violently, the National Guard is no longer there.
Getting violent because someone is trying to get you to become violent is the most stupid thing you can do.
It’s not hard to run on rage. What’s infinitely more difficult is to suppress the rage until you know your enraged actions will have the maximum benefit. Right now, non-violence is having the maximum benefit.
It helps to have enough education to know that the last five minutes of world history are not the only ones that matter, and if you can’t stretch that far, tell me what got the British out of India after hundreds of years of brutal repression and subsequent uprisings.
History is NOT on your side. If you REALLY want to make a difference, then stop. Learn your enemy. Wait. Then act.
Hell, that’s what your enemy did. They built Cop City in Atlanta just for this time. You don’t have shit.
And son, we ALREADY know we have fascists on our streets. The only ones who don’t know are the ones sticking their fingers in their ears going la la la la la la doing everything in their power to avoid knowing.
You avoided the primary question - what’s the line them? It honestly doesn’t even really matter, since the whole premise of your post is that there is a line and that you eventually have to strike and use force. Our only disagreement is where that line actually is.
Besides, acting like Portland was some grand victory is just silly. OK - the national guard is out of Portland for the moment. They just moved on to their next target. They flood the zone and move fast so the legal system can’t keep up. The damage was already done and they just moved to sow chaos in a new location with a different militarized force. What a win.
Peaceful protests are an important tool to the fight, but these people only fear consequences. Physical, emotional, reputational or financial harm. It’s a multi-faceted fight, but that’s what it is - a fight. If they think they can best you through physical force alone, that’s what they will do. You can’t let them think that. You need a stick to respond in kind with.
Maybe you should read up on the Hindustan Socialist Republican Association or the Indian National Army. They both played major roles in Indian independence. Ghandi is a great story, but guess who he had as a counter balance? The stick.
And that’s just a lie. The legal system IS keeping up. The National Guard is NOT being redeployed. Hell, the NG isn’t even in Menneapolis, though Gov. Walz has put it on standby as is his prerogative as governor.
Ghandi is a great story, but guess who he had as a counter balance? The stick.
Then you should go back and reread that story, because “the stick” was hundreds of years worth of the British coming down on Indians with absolute brutality, the Indians rising up again with massive brutality of their own, and then the British coming back across with escalations like Amritsar.
What got the British their asses handed to them after hundreds of years of this bloody back and forth was a line of non-violent protesters who simply went to the beach to make salt. Thousands of them. Who at the end of their march walked straight into billy clubs without ever raising a hand or a stick.
You literally do not know the history you to seek to (mis)represent here. Hundreds of years of what you propose did nothing; it only secured the British power more firmly than ever. And it’s not just India; we have some semblance of civil rights here because of Martin Luther King, Jr. doing the same thing.
The line of violence is not for you to propose to others. It is for you to choose for yourself, and stop trying to get others to bleed in your stead.
I mostly don’t disagree with you but it seems the executive branch has moved on from deploying the national guard to instigate violence and instead is just outright committing acts of violence on its own. Will the legal system keep up with that? -I don’t know for certain but I’d put a fiver on these agents never sitting opposite of a prosecutor in a courtroom.
it seems the executive branch has moved on from deploying the national guard to instigate violence and instead is just outright committing acts of violence on its own.
You’re not wrong. That’s exactly what they are doing. But they are doing it out of desperation: if they get us to the midterms and states (all voting in the US is regulated by the states, not the feds) have elections, this administration becomes powerless and Trump is in the same danger he was in prior to regaining office, but now with a pissed off nation that wants him gone.
For myself, it’s too soon to tell whether this administration will succeed in overthrowing the legitimate government and substituting its own form of fascist authoritarianism. This is in progress; it is anything but complete. Plus, states have their own authority as well, and today, the Minnesota AG told the feds that the goon who shot Ms. Good can be prosecuted for murder by the state. So it may not be up to the feds after all. I guess we’ll see.
So you’re saying we only need to wait one year until the midterms and if that doesn’t work, then all gloves off? Or are you going to tell us to wait then too?
the executive branch has moved on from deploying the national guard to instigate violence and instead is just outright committing acts of violence on its own.
This is because of Reagan’s use of NG at Berkeley and the mass murders of students by NG at Kent State and U New Mexico in 1970s. NG has checks now. I realize Lemmy thinks Police State Fascism is new in 2025 but this has been America since the 1960s.
What a fantasy land you are living in.
Even if you were right about the legal system keeping up (you’re not), it is failing so hard is other ways, it doesn’t even matter. Do you remember Citizens United where the Supreme Court allowed endless and unchecked amounts of money to flood our political system accelerating us down this path of division? How about SC giving our president complete immunity to do whatever he wants in office? Or the Trump appointed judge that intentionally derailed his prosecutions so no one could hold him accountable? Or how about the SC justice that retired early so his son could get a cushy job in return for Trump being able to appoint another justice? That legal system? Yea, it’s functioning great. A real bulwark there.
Secondly, you really believe that was this one series of peaceful protests the ONLY and driving factor behind Indian independence? Not the fact that the British had a failing empire and needed funds to rebuild after WWII? How about the fact that they had their hands full in the middle east and China at the same time? Or that they no longer had the forces, resources or will to contunue to fight the armed resistance in the country? Chalking up a remarkably complex series of events and outcomes to a single factor shows how little you understand about the world.
No one is asking anyone to bleed for anyone. I just don’t have blinders on and can see what is coming. I also have a deep enough understanding of history to understand how freedom is obtained and maintained. Sorry that offends you, but it really seems like a personal problem. Have fun with that.
The difference here is that none of what you are writing about is currently relevant: successful non-violent protest is.
Instead of addressing that, and absolutely avoiding the actual court order I posted with all your larping might, you’re diving into the weeds of how we got here, like Citizen’s United has anything DIRECTLY to do with choosing as an individual to hold your ground, think it out, and choose your own arena in which to most effectively fight.
As to the rest, I think what I think because many more educated and reasoned individuals than yourself have already researched the strategy of non-violence in topping unwanted regimes. I don’t need a misguided larper to rewrite history for me; I’ve already studied it, and many better than yourself have offered studied, intelligent analyses of both positions.
There’s a reason non-violence works, and a reason why you keep posting in defense of violence, while accusing me of non-specifics even as you pointedly ignore your own.
If you wanna get out on the streets and fight ICE, no one is stopping you. But I note you’re not. You’re posting here to incite others to do it for you.
If they think they can best you through physical force alone, that’s what they will do. You can’t let them think that. You need a stick to respond in kind with.
Holding that stick is fine. We have a Constitutional right to that stick. They need to be made to think about that stick before they attack us.
BUT we gotta play smarter than that and pray to God we don’t gotta use that stick, because these guys will beat The People in a standup fight. Why?
Their whole lives are violence. They dream of violence, they are paid handsomly to spend their time training for violence, they spend their individual salaries on violence-multipliers and have government budgets to enable their violence, they consume violence.
They have forfeited their humanity in order to be really, really good at brutalizing and killing other human beings, and they have a massive apparatus behind them.
If we draw a line in the sand they will cross that line because they know they would win that game.
However, they seemingly struggle to understand how their own friggin’ government works though, and they’re slipping up, even with their cronies in place. We need to press that advantage as hard as we can and play a game they’re too stupid to handle.
So if we can embolden the political resistance, and also stoke civil resistance as discussed above (cutting off supply lines and flipping public sentiment and pressuring weenie politicians), any act of brutality is still a massive mark against them right now.
I’m sure only the most diehard cultists can see what happened to that poor woman and still think “bUt MuH jUsTiFiEd FeDs ThO.” The more we expose them, the more they’ll lose support, even from all their wet-napkin neolib suburbanites who “Don’t follow politics.”
By all means, we should still train and be ready to use that stick, if all else fails. But by God…we should not be eager.
we ALREADY know we have fascists on our streets. The only ones who don’t know are the ones sticking their fingers in their ears going la la la la la la doing everything in their power to avoid knowing.
Maybe a good first step is to make sure they do know.
The more people you can have on the side of opposing fascism the more likely it will be to defeat it.
Comical edit. Can’t actually respond with substance, so you try to misstate the position you cannot rebut and undermine it will a silly ad hominem attack because I haven’t used a forum for as long as you. Classic.
Let’s be clear - I wish the world didn’t work the way it does, but you can’t argue with millenia of human history. Even your own examples of idealisn were so paper thin, they couldn’t stand 5 minutes of scrutiny. I would honestly love to live in a world where reason and intellect were sufficient to win the day. Unfortunately, whenever we start down that path, it always seems to get blown up by bad actors that would rather see the world burn than lose power. Burying your head in the sand about reality doesn’t help anyone.
Bad actors are in charge. They have no respect to our current system or the people in it, and they are actively trying to destroy it for their own personal gain. We can either let them, or we can do something about. If seeing and understanding the magnitude of our current situation makes me a “larper”, so be it. I’d rather be that than whatever you are, or are pretending to be.
Good luck to you out there. Sounds like you are going to need it.
I did respond with substance; you chose to reply to a different comment. You are the one without substance: all general urgings toward violence – “We can either let them, or we can do something about [it]” – but nothing specific. I referred to very specific points in history, and when and why they worked, while you blew right past that to be able to remain in your generalities.
But what I’d really like you to explain, which you cannot and never will, is how and why it is a winning measure to respond to provocation with violence when your violent response is exactly what they want, and will absolutely be used to cement their power further.
I just posted the court order that literally says the National Guard were posted to Portland, Oregon to quell existing violence. They got kicked out based on the fact there was no violence.
Your answer to this is to call others, not yourself, to unspecified violence.
So I’d say we’re not on the same team, regardless of what you write or how old your account (or you) are, because what you propose will only set cities on fire and cement this administration’s hold on power. As actual history shows.
I’ve come to the conclusion that you’re just writing because you already know this crew is drowning under the weight of their own unpopularity, and you are terrified they will get thrown out before they really get cemented in. Or like some others, you really do want to see American cities burn. Or like even others, you’re terrified because you left your regional and national security to the US for far too long and never took action to secure yourselves against the neighbor in your own backyard (Putin).
Whatever you’re writing to prove, you’ve failed. And yeah, your 22-hour old account is kind of a dead giveaway that this isn’t your battle to fight – or rather, to get others to fight for you.
How many base commanders with troops who have undying loyalty to them and the constitution do you got in your pocket?
Zero. Your point?
What’s your fuckin’ point? You want people to start pouring into the streets with AR15’s, hand guns, and pipe bombs and do what, start attacking ICE facilities around the country? Besides the fact that it’s incredibly stupid and it would just be seen as wonton violence by a majority of the population, and that such a movement would immediately be crushed by people who are just fucking itching for a fight, you can’t have a revolution without the backing of a significant portion of the military. Things are bad, but they’re not that bad yet. Once economic disparity reaches a critical mass and people start getting Great Depression levels of pissed off, like food riots level pissed off, and we’re not far from that, if Trump starts using the military or ICE to put down citizens en masse, then you’ll start to see conditions that develop into the type of thing you’re talking about. Until then, and probably especially then, because the secret police will black bag you, it’s probably best to not make vague and ill considered overtures for violence in the streets.
Did you even read your comment before you posted it? “Let’s have another self inflicted great depression because a pedophile wants to hide his crimes, and after the government murders enough of us in the street to make us mad, then let’s do something about it.” That type of attitude is why we are in this situation. It’s honestly pathetic, but you do you.
The fact that some of you are so upset by reality is not my problem. Protest is one facet of resistance. It can’t be the only one to be effective. You can pretend we live in some lala land where fascists are going to wake up one day and realize how wrong they are because of a great post on lemmly, but I live in the real world, and that’s not how it works here.
Perhaps exercising a literal CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT (2nd Amendment - you should look it up) offends you, but did you ever consider that was it was there for a reason? There are plenty of ways to respond forcefully and non-lethally short of your ridiculous example. Sometimes the threat of force is sufficient. Sometimes it isn’t. Maybe we should explore those options as a country instead of burying our heads in the sand and pretending that it’s all going to be fine. Shutting down the conversation because it makes you uncomfortable isn’t helping anyone.
If we can’t organize a general strike, we can’t organize an armed resistance.
we are long pass a strike, simply because everyone is too in disarray to even organize that.
Well said.
this is the argument that caused people to permit the Nazis.
So what specific violence do you recommend? Against whom? Where? When? Based on which historical precedent (pick just one)?
Because you’re both very light on specifics. “[T]his is the argument that caused people to permit the Nazis” is a statement made of smoke.
The specific violence is highly contextual. And it’s wise to be light on specifics, but for historical examples you can look up the history of German and Austrian resistance fighters in Germany during and prior to world war 2 if you like. Efforts both peaceful and violent had an impact and contributed to the allied victory.
A good example would be finding specific individuals who have broken the law and killed people, but who have avoided any legal repercussion, and ensuring that there is a repercussion.
It’s definitely not an action that should be taken wildly, or while on tilt. but we’re approaching the point of needing that kind of action.
That’s how they’d love everyone to think. Violent response gives pretext to drive the jackboot in. If you try to go to pick a fight on a force with a monopoly on violence, you’ll get yourself killed and embolden them.
Successful overthrows happen when elites break ranks, when organised alternatives exist, when military, police and bureaucracy take another option.
Organise peaceful protest, appeal to those in power rather than threatening them, and make the alternative more attractive than the status quo.
I agree, to some significant extent. But I don’t agree with the suppression of violence, here. Rather, it should be channeled into the ranks of said organized alternatives.
…but if there are no organized alternatives, and someone loses their shit, they should do a little research and aim at the most egregious lawnreakers first.
Ah yes, because if people shot Nazis the Nazis would have taken their ball and gone home.
they did. It was called World War 2.
Really? One person shot one Nazi and the Nazis stopped the holocaust?
don’t pretend your mind doesn’t work well enough to comprehend what I’m saying.
An alliance of a dozen countries completely crushed the Nazi war machine.
Which isn’t relevant.
You’re strongly implying shooting someone (anyone?) in the US federal government will stop the rapidly increasing fascism. It won’t. It will be a casus belli to double down on fascism.
So go pound sand.
The casus belli argument might be meaningful if they weren’t already bellicose, and actively pursuing violence. So go hide in a corner.
that said, I don’t advocate violence yet (until, perhaps, an actual dictatorship is established and election terms are violated). It’s still a situation that has potential to be resolved internally, with law, come the elections this year - if there’s meaningful action by the representation.
However, if someone loses their shit, I argue that they should do their homework and go for the most dire of lawbreakers first.
They’re going to schools because it’s a safe assumption no one has a gun.
They want easy victims, and too many people still don’t understand what the phrase “stay dangerous” ever meant.
That is never a safe assumption in US schools
Yep, I also have a feeling they are singling out weak targets to appear strong, nationally and internationally: blackmail Ukraine, plan luxury resorts in Gaza, kill unarmed people unprovoked, kidnap the head of one of the weakest states on earth, threaten a starving country (Cuba), defund universities and humanitarian organizations.
They can be seen kneeling when Putin offers a shoe to polish and when they have to play the victim of hostile trade.
Sorry for going on a tangent. The frustration is real.
The behaviour of ice and the dhs fits the definition of terrorism: “the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims”. State terrorism is still terrorism.
Nazi Germany prior to the Reichstag fire was kinda like the usa now: thugs on the street harassing civilians of chosen outgroups without consequences, but the government was still ostensibly obeying laws and not yet mass disappearing people. I think usa republicans aren’t ready yet to have their Reichstag fire moment, but it just seems like a matter of time. Their expansion of ice seems pretty much unopposed & their take over of government agencies + army/navy appears to be progressing steadily as well.
Our Reichstag fire was long ago, and it’s not about “Republicans”.
The response to 9-11 is what some consider to be the “turning point”, the Patriot Act and what it created was a point of no return. (it made ICE, a surveillance state, Guantanamo concentration camp, and so much more). There is no better environment for fascism, it approves and supports fascism by design.
If you somehow erased every Republican tomorrow, that fascist surveillance police state would remain, waiting to be used in the only way it can be used.
Democrats won’t save you
oh yea, and the Ds never immediately repeal the things bush did in his 2 terms, they JUST KEPT IT around, as if like they need the thing to keep the masses complicit.
The question is, is the American public in the right mood to flip over to fascism when scared by the riechstag fire or flip against it?
Dude, we’ve already flipped. Dissent is punished and while most people aren’t okay with it, no one’s doing anything that will actually stop it.
Dissent is punished
That won’t stop on its own.
as soon as the first shooting, disappearance happened, there shouldve been riots, instead we got peaceful and ineffective protesting, if the govt knows you arnt going to riot with threat of mass unrest, they are going to ignore the protest.
💀
I remember was just in highschool like during the first trump admin…
This is beyond cooked. My grades was already has Cs and Ds, if this shit happened when I was in highschool, this is just guranteeing that I get all Fs. I’d be too scared to go to school as an immigrant (legal btw).
What the fuck.
The irony is that in a lot of states you’d be reported to the police for truancy and missing too much school. -Yet another way to put a target on your back.
Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
It’s like showing up to immigration court.
If you don’t, that’s illegal.
But if you do, ICE shows up anyways.
Stress fucks up your academic performance something fierce. I don’t blame you for having poor grades. I got fired in my first Trump term.
i suspect parents will be transferring them to safer districts or even move to another state.
Assuming they have the means for that…
Shitler’s Gestapo terrorizing kids. On brand for the kiddie rapist cult
How long before he takes his pick from among the most delectable children and has them snatched for him? Maybe it’s already happening?
Why not? Nothing would happen. It’s the right of kings!
PedoCon.
Sure, start socializing them to be terrified of the government while they’re still young.
You don’t need any context to understand this is very simple. When you are being surrounded by rouge, angry, armed men with assault weapons, RUN FOR YOUR LIFE.
Mrs. Good tried to run away, but they wouldn’t let her and killed her in cold blood in front of her community to make a point. That ICE agent Jonathan Ross MUST be charged for this murder, otherwise they will continue to murder innocent people more and more.
If you run they will murder you dude. I think this is bad advice to give honestly… You even mention the killing of someone who tried to run.
You’re better off sorting it out with your lawyer later and trying to sue. Finances is all the government cares about so if you start chipping away at that maybe then shit will change.
sorting it out with your lawyer later
Youre assuming these ass bags abide by due process, and youll ever see a lawyer
I’m not sure this is a great solution either. People are getting picked up by ICE and disappeared. Hard to fight it with a lawyer when you’re isolated in a hole somewhere in Africa or South America.
You’re better off sorting it out with your lawyer later and trying to sue.
Unfortunately captures by ICE have often lead to those lawyers saying “You shipped my client WHERE EXACTLY?!?”
…and getting nothing in response…
I don’t know where else to ask this question…or even if I’m formulating this question properly in my rage.
Violence in the streets seems to be inevitable to me at this point with the recent revelation that Minnesota will not be allowed to perform a state-level investigation in to Renee Nicole Good’s death. The sheer audacity of the injustice, the inhumanity before, during and after this event, the clear and shameless lying. Now, they are attacking your children. If Americans take this lying down then there truly is no Rubicon, so at this point I’m practically hoping for violence, because how many more dead would the alternative bring? That feels wrong to me, but if no one stands up for these victims, then obviously their number will rise exponentially. But that’s not my question.
My question is, when this thing explodes and the violence breaks out. When Trump and his goons do the only thing their limited minds can think of and try to “crack down”. When it all goes to fucking shit… then what? Line up on sides like a dodgeball team and States start rebelling like it’s 150 years ago? Isolated city-states locked out from Federal support and interference? Trump declares himself President for Life?
It’s not weird that those resisting fascism have no solid plan, this is being thrust upon them. It might have been predictable but I can’t blame people for not really believing it until folks started dying. But it seems weird that the instigators of this fucking circus don’t even seem to be able to tell me what their fucking goal is. Do they honestly think they can create a brutal Christofascist ethno-state out of modern America? That no one will stop them, just because no one has killed them yet? And more insanely, if they do succeed, do they think they’ll all live through that attempt?
You are missing the key piece of information here:
The instigators of this are TRYING to harm the United States. They do not have a vision of a better country at the end of this. They are enemies of the nation and a chaotic mess is exactly what they want to see happen. Its not SUPPOSED to work. A dysfunctional country IS the goal.
There will not be battle lines.
Take a look back at the “Troubles” in Northern Ireland to get more of a sense of what a modern civil war would look like. You can also look at the insurgencies in places like Iraq and Afghanistan, though obviously those countries are much different from the US than the UK is.
Myanmar comes to mind as a worst-case scenario, too. They’ve been fighting since the pandemic and it’s basically in every direction, everywhere.
facebook had a hand in thier current state right now.
When it all goes to fucking shit… then what? Line up on sides like a dodgeball team and States start rebelling like it’s 150 years ago? Isolated city-states locked out from Federal support and interference? Trump declares himself President for Life?
It likely depends on what the actual circumstances of the violence is and the various responses from other government agencies.
In other fascist government takeovers the key differentiator is the role/reaction of the military. Does the military support the fascist leader or does it oppose them? In 1922 Mussolini had full control and loyalty from the military while the government did not. Alternatively, while not in 2013 President of Egypt Mohamed Morsi, which had was facing protests by the populous for his actions was deposed by the military in what their opponents label a coup. In the 1930s in the USA, there was a fascist group called German American Bund. These were the American Nazi party you may have heard of of which famous pilot Charles Linbergh was a member of. There were supposed plans to execute a fascist takeover of the USA deposing FDR. The military stepped up protection of FDR, so we can infer that FDR had the support the military. German American Bund was investigated, many arrested, and it was dissolved.
So in your theoretical, which way does the US military go?
Preventive maintenance is always better than repairs…
If there’s a group of 100 protestors and 10 of them have rifles and plate carriers, all of a sudden de-escalation can become a common goal.
If the same side is always the only one with guns, and they face no legal consequences from escalating to violence…
They’re gonna keep doing it.
It sounds counter-intuitive, but there’s a reason ICE isn’t going after actual cartels and drug smugglers. They’re picking the easiest targets, so now is the time for everyone to stop being an easy target while we’re still legally allowed to buy this shit. Being visible armed is the only way to make cops want to de-escalate. If not, they’re trained to “press the advantage” and keep you panicked, which doesn’t work at all, but makes them feel tough.
Eventually Trump’s gonna stop letting people buy guns, if you think an armed populace will ever be necessary, now’s the time to get a kit together.
Just one person being armed won’t deter them. There’s a reason the 2A specifies “well organized militia” It is your right to gather together with other armed citizens and use violence to defend your communities.
I’ve never seen a video of a cop shooting a protester while another protester is in the area with a rifle…
Can you show me a single example of me being wrong?
Because it’s logically impossible for anyone to prove the opposite, I’d have to show you ever video of American law enforcement shooting someone…
How about shooting an innocent bystander and the armed protester while he was carrying a rifle.
They would have thought twice about shooting Arturo if he had a dozen armed friends nearby, I’d wager.
Arturo Gamboa, the man shot in June while openly carrying a rifle at Salt Lake City’s No Kings protest… Looking to confront Gamboa for his AR-15-style firearm, a safety volunteer fired three shots. Two struck him, and another killed an innocent bystander… When asked about his actions that day, Gamboa said he was “peacefully protesting, utilizing my First and Second Amendment rights under the Constitution.”…
How about shooting an innocent bystander and the armed protester while he was carrying a rifle
So…
That means you couldnt find an example of what I was actually g about?
I’ve never seen a video of a cop shooting a protester while another protester is in the area with a rifle…
Are you being sarcastic or can you really not tell the difference between those two sentences?
Bystander was a protestor.
Arturo was a protestor with a rifle, in the same area as bystander.
Bystander was shot.
“I’ve never seen a video of a cop shooting a protester (bystander) while another protester (Arturo) is in the area with a rifle…”
A civilian volunteer (peacekeeper for the organization that held the protest I’m pretty sure) that pledged not to have a gun. Shot another civilian who didn’t pledge to have a gun, for having a gun…
What does this have to do with law enforcement again?
Who is the cop that shot someone?
It’s well established that a line of armed men is the best way to prevent Police from rioting at a protest.
Look up “Bleeding Kansas” and “bushwhacking”.
That, except with pipe bombs, rented trucks, and ubiquitous modern firearms. It could get very ugly. I don’t know what kind of appetite either side has for that long term.
Congress and the senate could stipnthis tomorrow. A serious, fucused pressure campaign on republicans would flip this script. Right now trump takes all the heat, and he doesnt cate becuase hes a moron and just doesnt care.
the house and the senate get to just ignore all of this. no one ever mentions them, like they have a free pass or something.
We should be following these people, their assistants, and their spouses 24/7 365 until they impeach this shitstain.
We can not allow them off the hook beacuse “republicans wont impeach”, thats bullshit. they are just humans, and they will break like anyone else.
he needs the distraction from the epstein files, any news even things like this is good for him. the venezuelan issue, was dropped by the media immediately the shooting happened.
This is what it looks like when fascism is in the midst of overthrowing a country. And old-school democracy has very few defences against these tactics.
Passivism does allow for self defence and, in many cases, the defence of others.
They’re trying to provoke us out in the open. They’ve been trying to normalise violence against us (and have become alarmingly effective).
A few people have commented places where this has happened before; where government has been captured by the far right. Historians have identified key moments where a different action or approach had a high chance of changing the outcome. If we look at current events temporaly through the lens of those key moments, we can be far, far better informed.
I know some people have been doing that.
eta: We’re running Democracy2.0, and many more versions have been developed in the past 200 years. We’re driving a constitution designed to be transported by carriage. It’s incompatible with our recent technology.
I was initially against arming teachers but maybe they should start doing that to protect students from the gestapo.
I’ve met many teachers who definitely shouldn’t be armed around students.
There is nothing shocking about this. What is surprising is why the hell aren’t local police not arresting their asses. ICE has shown they do not give a fuck about the well being of police officers and treat them like they are inferior. ICE is no match for the police department of any city.
who do you think the LEO support.
This should still shock all of us
Currently, ICE outnumbers Minneapolis police by over 2 to 1.
America is definitively passed their point of no return. I personally like many think that was a long time ago but there are still people out there who cannot internalize it. They’re in denial.
The world is trying to tell you guys this. Yes, you will have to put your body on the line. You will miss work. You will miss your bills. You’ve already lost so much. You will lose more. It’s a foregone conclusion. The question is what can you salvage at the point.
No, telling the rest of us to put our own bodies on the line will not change your situation. Ukrainians have no choice but to fight their oppressor. Gazans have no choice but to fight for their lives. America is no exception. You’ve slid into fascism. You have to fight for your freedom now.
You never were the exception. This mentality has been your undoing. The system isn’t fixing itself because of some higher innate quality of being American. You have proven this yourselves. You tried voting. It didn’t work. You tried protesting. It didn’t work. You tried your systems of checks and balances. They’ve all been torn the shreds.
You will fight like the rest of the world fights for their freedom. The idea of American peace, liberty, and justice for all was a fun fantasy while it lasted. Your own weapons of oppression are pointed at you. It’s time to wake up to reality now. This is the America that the rest of the world knows.
Maybe now Americans will understand those around world didn’t hate you because you were better. They hate you because of the very oppression you now face yourselves.
This is too fucking much. Jail is too good for ICE agents. Fucking Nazi Scum
Nuremberg is the compromise position
Removed by mod
That protestor was fortunate that he wasn’t shot in the face.
On a side note, if you’re participating in a protest, please wear reasonable shoes or even steel-toed boots, not SANDALS. This request is for your own safety, I’m not the fashion police.
And especially don’t wear socks with sandals!
Who were they going to get? A kid? Or better yet, a teacher? A coach, a school janitor or bus driver?
Perhaps the public should re-examine the premise of why they hate “criminal” immigrants so much…
