As an early 90’s millennial, I’ve never noticed a “gen z stare” as described in news articles like a “blank face that shows lack of social skill or ability to think”. The only times I’ve witnessed it happen and seen the older person accuse them of “gen z stare” is when the older person says something off hand or dumb but isn’t self aware enough to realize they’re being weird. Hell, I’ve given people a blank face countless times because I was taught it was better to say nothing at all sometimes. Especially when it came to talking to older people at work.
I remember when I was 16, some middle aged guy at work accused me of having no personality. In reality, I kept all conversations short as possible with him (like almost everyone in the store) because they were casually racist and misogynistic.
Nope. It’s always safe to ignore any articles about “kids these days”
Oh I take most “news” with a large grain of salt for sure. Just seems like such an odd thing to attribute to a single generation when everyone alive has probably at some point reacted with a blank face to avoid saying “you’re fucking weird”
Perfectly balanced, Todd Howard!
It was only a few years ago that journalists seemed to realize that Millennials had jobs and kids. I’m thinking about college for my kids and “Millennials unable to adapt to the work force” articles are still being written. Bitch, we ARE the work force!
They all want to write a book and disrespects their elders.
As an elder millenial I might have some insight. You know how when we were kids people used to get all up in their feelings when you weren’t smiling. That’s this. “Gen Z stare”, is just “Resting Bitch Face” or “You look prettier when you smile darlin’” repackaged and rebranded. They’re mad that the young people in general and women in particular aren’t running around with goofy forced smiles on their faces to make them feel special.
The various answers in this thread are just hilarious.
The stare is real; it’s when they work in a service position but don’t communicate. You walk up to the counter and instead of greeting you or asking how they can help you or saying anything at all they just stare at you. That’s the Gen z stare. It’s that simple and I’ve encountered it everywhere that employs younger people. It doesn’t bother me, you don’t have to do shit for a shit wage, but it does make interactions unnecessarily awkward.
The comment saying that Gen z just doesn’t tolerate stupid is hilarious. What percentage of your generation voted for Trump again?Huh maybe it’s cultural but I have totally encountered this with older people. Any time there is a ticket or info booth like at a train station, they are either staring or doing something else and I never know if I’m interrupting something. It’s the best when they fiddle with something looking very busy, and then they look at me annoyed that I’m not saying what I want from them.
It appears the same but it’s a different thing entirely. The older people are confused because they’ve been doing $THING the same way for 30 years and now $THING has changed and they’re struggling. I think that’s natural, and also kind of agree with them, because all these “self service kiosks” that are replacing people fucking suck ass by comparison to a live human being that is capable of thinking beyond a few decision trees.
The thing being talked about here is where people take jobs working customer service, where 50% of their job is to be a resource to the customers coming in that may have questions or need assistance, but are annoyed that they’re being asked to be a resource to the customers coming in because who fuckin knows why, and are displaying their annoyance by not being a resource to the customers coming in and staring at them like somehow they’re at fault for being a customer ruining their day for walking through the door.
So what if there are signs on the ceiling that say “Restrooms”? If someone in their 70s comes in and asks where the restrooms are, why is that so bothersome? I mean, if that’s the hardest thing you’re dealing with in your day to day count yourself lucky because kid, it ain’t gonna get any easier as you get older, not by a fuckin longshot.
Thank you! This is the part I cannot stand. If you want to sit and blink at me on the bus when I ask if the seat next to you is taken, hey, fair enough, Ill just sit down then and fuck you, I was just asking to be nice but aint no one sitting in it and you didnt open your mouth so now Im sitting in it and you can process that however you need to, not my problem.
But when Im at the store and ask where the paper towels are so I dont have to spend 20 minutes walking through a building that covers 40 acres, and get nothing but a dead ass stare, thats fucking ridiculous. Is having to point to an aisle really such a hardship that mentally it causes you to lockup?
Honestly I think this comes down to a lack of socialization. People arent learning how to function in social situations that arent curated for them ahead of time anymore and simply do not know how to communicate properly with strangers. Which is understandable, of course, but where it falls apart is when you willingly take a job to be in that position and then dont want to do what the job entails.
Thank fucking god a normal reply.
Unless you are literally a child there is no reason for the person at the counter to greet you or ask how they can help, put on your big boy pants and just tell them what you need and move on, everyone is busy and no one has time to make you feel special, have your order prepared before getting to the counter, just say Hi can I have xyz and they will get it done, that’s all the conversation that needs to happen.
First, I’ve never noticed this “Gen z stare” thing, but you do need something when you walk up to a customer service person. Looking up at me, a little nod, a hello, something to let me know you’re ready for me to start the interaction and I’m not interrupting.
That’s what blows my mind with that specific argument…that people hesitate before just talking because it’s considerate. I appreciate it when Im in the middle of composing an email and the person standing at the door to my office gives me a second to finish the sentence Im writing. Im sure the people that are standing behind the counter have similarly been doing something that requires concentration and appreciated that someone gave them a minute to get to a stopping point before taking their attention away from it.
How the blue fuck that could ever be interpreted as “stupid” or “annoying” is completely beyond my understanding. Or how we’re just waiting for someone to say “Oh hi” or “Ill be right with you” or “Can I help you with something?” before interrupting their work is somehow, in itself, worthy of being treated the same as if you just came in dropping F bombs screaming at them.
So I guess that’s the disconnect for me…how they literally cannot see the difference between a bog-standard customer service type of interaction and someone legitimately being an asshole to them. To them, they are both equivalent. Anything that involves them interacting with someone they don’t feel like interacting with is some sort of slight or imposition. It’s totally fine to be that way in your personal life, but not when you’re standing at the fucking information kiosk at the hospital, being paid to work at the information kiosk at the hospital, where your job is…wait for it…providing information to people that come to you at the fucking hospital.
Im sorry but thats just not normal unless you are neurodivergent. We’re not robots. Honestly something is wrong if you dont even have mirror facial expressions.
I get dissasociating from a rude customer, but i ja e gotten that stare from a simple ass “hey hows it goin”.
Hey how’s it going is just an empty phrase that means Hi, you should not expect any response to that other than a hi back at most, unless you actually want to know how they are doing, and the answer to that is they are tired and miserable, which you would know if you ever worked a customer facing minimum wage retail job before. Just because people don’t have the energy for your bullshit doesn’t mean they are neurodivergent. In many other countries where employees aren’t forced to plaster a smile on their face the interaction won’t be anymore then this either.
Just because people don’t have the energy for your bullshit doesn’t mean they are neurodivergent.
Uh, actually, it kinda does mean that, because the vast majority of people aren’t so exhausted by responding to “Hey, hows it going?” with a normal, human response that they not only completely opt out of doing it but then go on the internet and complain about how unfair it is that they’re expected to behave in line with what is defined as ‘the norm’.
Here’s the questions you need to ask yourself: Why do I feel like being asked to engage with a person that is asking a normal question is equivalent to being forced to engage with someone that is treating me poorly? Why am I seemingly unable to separate the two, and conflate participating in social niceties with being abused? Why is the social equivalent of a papercut and a shotgun blast to the face the same in my eyes, and why do both generate a similar response?
But whatever you do, if you can’t handle being expected to respond to “hey hows it going?” with some variation of “not bad, you?”, for the love of Christ, please don’t willingly seek out employment where a key facet of the job is doing just that, or at the very least if you do, save the blinking and acting like Im inconveniencing you for asking a normal-ass question like “Is this the line to pay?” If you can’t even handle that, that is not at all the fault of the person on the other side of the dialog.
But whatever you do, if you can’t handle being expected to respond to “hey hows it going?” with some variation of “not bad, you?”, for the love of Christ, please don’t willingly seek out employment where a key facet of the job is doing just that, or at the very least if you do, save the blinking and acting like Im inconveniencing you for asking a normal-ass question like “Is this the line to pay?” If you can’t even handle that, that is not at all the fault of the person on the other side of the dialog.
Not everyone has the opportunity to get something that isnt customer facing. Most jobs created today are low wage service positions. People are tired and jaded at a world thats leaving them with a fucked up environment, no social safety nets, dwindling job prospects, increasing costs to live without rising wages, rising authoritarian governments all over the world. I get that those positions should have a bit more tact but I also empathize with those young employees who feel like the world has turned its back on them and so they are just doing the bare minimum to survive. The world is becoming less caring for its inhabitants are you really surprised those growing up in that environment are mirroring the treatment they get from the world back to you?
you should not expect any response to that other than a hi back
Yes, exactly. Everyone knows it’s a pointless platitude, the goal is to get an acknowledgement in response that you can further the interaction. When you don’t get that response it’s a problem - you don’t know if they’re busy, and the vast majority of people don’t want to be rude by just launching into your order (or whatever) just expecting them to be ready for it.
Genuinely what is the proper response to ‘hey, how’s it going?’ Because that is not normal where I grew up but it’s normal where I live now and I always respond with something like “good, you?” Unless I know the person, which is obviously wrong because half the time I get no response lol HELP
“Good you” is the perfect response, its just a more personal version of Hi or Hello, no need to over think it. As for the second part if you know the person hows it going can just be a conversation starter, its meant to ask what are you up to, i.e. is there a light topic we can have small talk about that isnt going to be too involved. You can respond with something along the lines of “I’m doing good, such and such happened the other day that was nice, how about you.”
Yeah this is something I needed to adapt to as well. That phrase is not a question it’s just another way of saying sup or hi, you don’t need to answer it even with a cursory I’m good how are you, I just say hey or hi and move on to the next part of the conversation.
Lmao what? You are saying the person put specifically in a position to ask me how they can help me, or say hello, or just have a normal human interaction isn’t required to do that if I’m an adult? Wild.
I’m not saying there should be no acknowledgement of someone, but a simple hello or hi or even a head nod is enough. Stop expecting people to put on a fake smile and make small talk to make you feel good about yourself
I don’t go to the cashier to make small talk and I don’t really think too many people expect that either.
There is a huge reason for the person at the counter to greet you or ask how they can help: thats the fucking job.
I find it ironic that you’re throwing out lines like “big boy pants” when you could also do the same and get a job where you dont have to work customer service…you know, put on your big boy pants…and go get a job that doesnt require you to be a human facing worker.
“God I cant stand the smell of cooking meat!!”
“Then why do you work at McDonalds?”
“Stop being microaggressive!”
“But there are lots of other jobs out there where they dont cook meat, why not take one of those instead?”
“NO! Why should I have to change? McDonalds should change! And until they do, im going to bitch and complain every chance I get.”
“Oh, uh…okay, good luck with that I guess”
I stopped working retail a long time ago and the fact that you think people in certain jobs are worth less than you and should suck up and deal with shitty behavior speaks volumes about what kind of a person you are
Never said that. I worked retail for twenty years, dude. I went back to college in my mid 30s.
I know what the job is. I know what the expectations are. You need to examine why you consider both “Hey, can you help me find something?” and “You’re worthless to me and I don’t care about you” as equivalent in your mind, because that is the shit people are complaining about.
Nobody is telling retail employees they need to take abuse. What we’re telling retail employees is, being asked to assist a customer in itself does not constitute abuse, so please, hold the ire when I come to the customer service desk, the place that exists for that explicit purpose, and ask a simple question. That is literally what you are being paid to do.
Nah. The “Gen Z stare” is the blank-faced look we give people that we think are idiots. It’s not that we lack self-awareness…it’s you. Gen Z doesn’t tolerate stupid. We just can’t be bothered to call you out on it, because that’s drama we don’t need. So we just stare at you, instead.
My sister in law is a conservative millennial and she does this anytime you mention anything negative about Trump
There are women Trump supporters? My God…
- 45% of women voted for Trump in 2024.
- Those 45-64 mostly voted for Trump.
- 80% of white evangelical women voted for him. https://cawp.rutgers.edu/blog/gender-differences-2024-presidential-vote
The last one makes some sense, since people who call themselves Christians are usually the ones who are least likely to live according to the sermon on the mount, and religiosity requires being dishonest and/or too stupid to distinguish between reality and wishful-thinking fairy tales.
Regardless of how you phrase it, it’s still a lack of social engagement.
Do you think you’re the only generation surrounded by idiots? Most humans have been idiots for all of history. Is just that without digital media you’re forced to live with those people your whole life. Retreating into a digital world for your social and intellectual support isn’t the flex you think it is.
I don’t think you fully appreciate what it’s like to grow up with boomers for parents. Your generation can basically ignore them, without any direct interaction. All you lose, is a birthday card. We grew up with them in our face, every single day. You can’t argue with these people. All you can do, is stare at them like they’re fucking idiots…because they are. Confronting them, is next to impossible, unless you are prepared to go to war over the stupidest shit imaginable.
This isn’t our “social deficiency”. It’s theirs. We grew up with no way of communicating with a generation of Karens, other than deliberate non-engagement.
Boomers aren’t really the parents of Gen Z if that’s what you’re saying, except on the extremes (the youngest boomers with the oldest Gen Z and they had kids past around 40 years old). That’s mostly Gen X and older millennials who had kids young. I, as a younger millennial, have boomer parents and even they almost aren’t.
~(I typed this and had one of those “god, I don’t care anymore” moments, but it’s typed already so here you go)~
Gen X forgotten again 😭
Stares into the abyss…
The issue is when people are so self-absorbed they treat everyone like idiots, so the “stare” becomes a default.
Congratulations, you’ve described a common human behavior that humans have been doing for all of human history. 😐
All this nonsense about this or that generation doing something incomprehensible to other generations is just distraction and noise meant to keep us attacking each other instead of coming together against the oligarchy that’s been systematically grinding us down for ever increasing profits.
This is the proverbial scrolled-too-far-down-for-this-comment
If someone says “good morning” and you just stare, you’re not “not tolerating stupid”, you’re rude. You know how much better you can make someone’s day by giving a friendly response? It’ll make your own day better too.
Yes it’s rude, but there are some people who think that insincerity, dishonesty, and wasting time is rude. They’re probably a minority even within Gen Z, and possibly just see the world differently from extraverts.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
Don’t know about mainland Europe but, in the UK, generational names are definitely a thing. Stupid newspaper headlines about Millennials, Gen Z, Gen Alpha, are very common, unfortunately.
Agree about the idea of getting rid of them, judge people on what they do (the content of their character, if you will) rather than what age they are.
Do you know what the stupid thing about this is? Those generations are not the same between countries. Babyboomer for example are defined as people born between 1946 and 1964 in the USA. In Germany it’s 1955 till 1969. There are also people around talking about “Boomer” in asian countries, which had totally different experiences and demographics. The whole concept of those “generations” is trash and people thinking that there is a specific stare for everyone who was born in a certain timeframe is also an idiot
Every generation is like this at that age. The hallmark of my generation, GenX, was apathy. Not that I care. Whatever. Never mind.
Hello. Hello. Hello. How low?
no. it’s just another thing to make people upset at each other. ignore what they say.
I have absolutely seen this and experienced this. Although, I don’t think it’s much different from any teenager or young person working shitty jobs in any decade I’ve lived or seen in media. The silent teen staring you down at fast food is timeless.
alienation of labor
I remember when I was 16, some middle aged guy at work accused me of having no personality. In reality, I kept all conversations short as possible with him (like almost everyone in the store) because they were casually racist and misogynistic.
lol sounds like an asshole to work with. I would have handled it the same way.
This guy was insane, we had an employee who came over from China for uni. A few of us are in the lunchroom eating one day then this guy walks in, takes an exaggerated breath in and says “SMELLS LIKE A CHINAMAN IN HERE!” this happened in like 2015. And he has the audacity to think other people are the ones with nothing going through their head.
New girl at work exists.
Asshole: “she’d be hot if she was white and blonde”
Dude, she is hot. And way, way out of your league.
Calling people out should be the norm
Dudes like 55, short, fat, bald and missing teeth and he’s judging a young woman like that? Gtfoh.
My guy was early 70s by the time I left and also fat. He was retired but worked part time, pretty sure it was to creep on young girls. Even the 14-16 year old dishwasher girls would say that he always mentioned their appearance, sometimes while he sat there watching them do dishes as he rubs his gut.
Everytime I was talking to a young lady customer he would walk between us and introduce himself. One day my girlfriend was in with her sister and we were talking, he butts in as usual and the 3 of us gave him the “gen z stare” until he walked away. Just thinking about him makes my blood boil.
My last boss was this way! Horrible way to go about living. I gave as little personal 1-to-1 time as possible. The more time he got from me the more he would slowly hint as his whacko conservative ways.
GenX here. I think it’s the name that’s given to a small collection of social mismatches between the generations’ expectations of one another and their social behaviors.
Gen Z in my view do not place much value on social graces as I define them. They’re under no obligation to please me, I realize. But yeah they do not seem to care much for social graces as I define them. Things like “greet someone before you ask for something,” and “say thank you before you leave.” I try to do these things at all times and I find GenZ do not always return them or give any sign they even saw them. When a cashier hands me my change and it’s time for me to go, I will say “thank you,” and imho it’s good social graces for them to say “thank you” as well or “you’re welcome” or even just “have a nice day.” But with GenZ cashiers, I say thank you, and then realize they had stopped paying any attention to my presence even before I said it. The second the change has been handed to me, it seems they consider the transaction over, period. It can feel abrupt. And in that moment, someone like me can be waiting to hear that “you’re welcome” and instead see the other person staring off into space. I have also heard of worse cases where someone is asked a direct question and instead of answering they just stare. I think those are more extreme cases but it’s believable to me and I’ve heard it enough times for it to be credible. It’s obviously not a universal, constant thing.
I also think that for this generation, being a retail worker is much more of a misery than it was when I was their age. Wages suck more now. People may be less polite now. And corporations have really tried to squeeze the most out of every employee. They have to do a bunch of different things. It seems they schedule the bare minimum number of people they can get away with. Maybe in my day kids enjoyed their job more because they could literally only stand at the register talking to customers when there were some, and in between horse around with the other workers. I think a lot of that slack has been squeezed out of the system. Frankly a lot of service has also been squeezed out of the system. I remember when waiters would pack the rest of your meal to go for you. They still did this when I visited Portugal last year and it was so nice. Many things like this have disappeared. Maybe this is part of why customers are less polite now. Service isn’t what it once was. Not always the fault of the workers.
The bit about the Stare is not always true or even most of the time. But it’s something that happens often enough to notice as a pattern. Once you’ve heard the stereotype of the “GenZ stare” you can start to experience confirmation bias of it. And really you never know if the person you’re facing is GenZ or not.
So it’s not a thing one should over-think. But yes I think there is something real behind it. Like a lot of stereotypes, it’s not fair to apply to everyone, but it may have some origin in reality somehow.
But with GenZ cashiers, I say thank you, and then realize they had stopped paying any attention to my presence
Generally, what works for me is to say it like you mean it. Say it like they just walked across the store to pick up a can that rolled off your cart. throw a little ‘unexpected’ in there, light smile, and then tell them to have a good day. If you don’t sell it, they’re going to assume you’re going through the motions just to feed the machine. They’ll blip back to you for a second from the next mundane task, get a smirk or a little grin, and say you’re welcome. Then GTFO, don’t tie em up, don’t make em think you’re flirting.
I doubt it makes their day noticeably better. It hasn’t seem to make them noticeably worse. They’re probably burned out and don’t want to emotionally invest further into their job.
and then tell them to have a good day
Might this be an extravert thing? Do extraverts enjoy being told to have a good day?
I prefer not to, and I also don’t want to be told to smile. I’ll put up with banalities like “Hi” even when there’s no need to actually get attention, and “Thanks” when the person clearly isn’t thankful; but if asked “How are you?” I might actually answer and they probably won’t like my answer if they didn’t mean it.
Maybe introverted people put more value in honesty and not wasting time?
Dunno, I’m an introvert who’s gotten better at extrovert cosplay over the decades
You know… it’s a courtesy. I do mean it - for what it is. Thanks for handing me my change. I’m not going to fire up my acting chops to “sell it” like they did something extraordinary if they did not.
I’ve encountered what I think of as the Gen z stare once or twice.
It skews more towards the younger end of Gen z, and honestly might even be more of an older gen alpha thing.
What I’m talking about isn’t the blank look given after being asked a stupid question, although they are absolutely masters of that as well (and I love that look and use it as myself)
It feels like more of a lack of understanding that someone is asking you a question and expecting an answer, or perhaps an inability to process that question and come up with an appropriate answer.
My friend who works at a bank has what I think is kind of the quintessential story that shows this version of the stare looks like, a younger person walked up to the counter, he asked some variation of “How can help you today?” And just got a stare back, like it never crossed their mind that they’d have to answer a question and say “I need to make a deposit/withdrawal,/etc.”
And I don’t think it’s necessarily a feature of the generation as a whole, not that gens z and alpha don’t have their quirks, but I have plenty of Gen z friends and coworkers and I don’t think they’re much worse off in any particular way than my fellow millennials. I have somewhat less exposure to gez alpha, but overall my opinion of them is largely the same so far.
I think it’s a very specific subset of the generation with a perfect storm of social isolation/anxiety issues, maybe some neurodivergence, probably some overbearing helicopter parents, and COVID kind of hitting at exactly the wrong point in their lives so that they missed out on some kind of social development milestones.
Yeah. Totall agree with you interpretation.
You know who also gives me the gen z stare? My mom with dementia. She literally can’t understand or process things anymore… and she exhibits the same spaced out behavior and often you have to ask her things a few times before it registers. And just like Gen Z stare kids… they don’t ask ‘can you say that again’ or show any indication they had misheard or not heard what you said, it just didn’t register at all that you said something.
I think it is a cognitive thing where basic language interactions just don’t register due to issue with attention and focus. I have nephews who are teenagers, and they never do it… but they are basically banned from social media and other phone obsessive stuff and their screen time is limited to 2 hours a day.
That’s not genz thing. That’s the hot potato method of where you drop the potato on the ground and don’t play the games the sociopath wants to play.
This is a more widely used strategy now that mental therapy is more openly discussed. And the best way to win the game with a narcissist/sociopath is to not play their game. in the older days this was done in form of cutting contact. Don’t take their calls. Leave. Don’t interact.
Deadpan stare is a form of this as visual blocking.
Before the 80s so many people thought ‘I can change him!’ And after the 80s there were so many books about living loving a narcissist and how you can’t change him.
Now we just have the deadpan stare. And so many hack comedians from yesterday liken it to ‘cancel culture’ or not having a sense of humour cuz they can’t deal with being irrelevant because of their unchecked hatred landing flat
I guess it depends on the context.
Work in a customer service job? People are going to talk to you. They may ask you questions. Those questions may even be something you consider silly. But guess what? Thats part of working customer service! Youre paid a wage to…wait for it…serve customers. Part of serving customers is occasionally having to answer questions that you may or may not think are stupid.
But its not a big deal. There is no one on this planet that hasn’t asked a stupid question before. Even the person that works at the counter at Starbucks and is annoyed that Im asking a question and thinks its appropriate to stand there and blink at me rather than acknowledge I exist in some human way, ill bet any amount of money they asked a stupid assed question at some point in their lives and the person they asked almost definitely didnt just sit there and stare at them until they felt bad for asking it.
I guess my point is, the problem as I see it arent the people that play that game in their day to day, its the people that play that game when their whole job is to assist the public in some way. The context is different. You can do whatever you want in your personal life, but dont take a customer service job if you dont want to interact with customers. Youre paid a wage to answer those questions and assist customers whether you think theyre stupid or annoying or not. But dont worry, nobody forces anyone to work anywhere in this country anyway, so if that is truly too much to bear, there are plenty of other jobs that arent customer service out there, go do one of those.
Signed, a 40-something that has gotten the blink in response to questions like “is this where I pay?” when standing at the register at a diner and being blankly stared at for 5 minutes, or “excuse me, where are the restrooms located?” when Ive got my 3 year old in tow and they’re doing the potty dance, about to soil themselves. If someone here thinks those are the appropriate sorts of questions to just stand there like a statue and not respond, please help me understand how, because I cant figure it out.
Yeah I’m noticing people in this thread claiming it is some social injustice to be asking people at their job to respond to simple people talk. Not even complicated questions or like, aggressive customer issues. Just a simple “hey is this where I order?” and they are spiraling.
Fucking weird.
Honestly, and this is digging pretty deep here, I think it boils down to entitlement.
I work in IT, and as one of the more senior people at my firm, am often coaching the paid interns we have coming through in spring and fall. I’ve been doing this for over a decade now, and I’ve noticed some trends among these early 20-somethings fresh out of college that was not the case previously. Namely, the employee/employer relationship.
As an easy example, here’s a specific argument I have had to have virtually every single time one of the new interns starts: “I know we’re supposed to be here at 8am but does it really matter? So what if Im a few minutes late?”
Well, once in a while, sure, shit happens. We’re actually pretty loosey goosey with that stuff and don’t watch people’s punches. We don’t go looking for people the minute they’re supposed to be at work, we give people 15-20 minutes to settle in and all that shit, which in my mind is pretty fuckin reasonable. But even that is seemingly “too micromanage-y” for the interns lately, and I’ve found myself having to explain how being on time to work is important, not just for our firm, but like, for society to function. Im explaining to legal adults that they need to be to work on time and its an argument. And the thing is, after a point, here’s the answer they’re going to get: “Why does it matter? Because if you don’t do what you agreed to do, your internship is going to be terminated and you will not be receiving an offer from our firm.” And somehow that is unreasonable to them. They literally think they can come in to a new job and do whatever the fuck they want, breeze in 30 minutes late every day, and we’re the assholes for taking issue with that.
But that’s just one easy, universally recognized example. There are dozens more, every single day. “Aw man, you’re telling me I have to do this by hand?” Yes, that’s what Im telling you. “But that’s going to take ages!” I know, believe me, I’ve done this same task myself many times. “I don’t want to do this.” Yeah, I know, but it needs to be done, and everyone else is working on other tasks, so unfortunately you’re going to have to do it. “But I don’t want to, I think this is dumb.” Well, you’re entitled to thinking whatever you want, but Im telling you, I need you to do this, and I know you don’t have anything else going on because Im the one that gives you your daily task list every morning, so go ahead and get started and let me know if you have any questions. “But I still don’t want to do this!” I heard you, but I don’t care whether you want to do it or not, you’re being paid a wage in exchange for your labor and we need your labor on this specific task. “So I don’t get a say in it?” Well, NO, you don’t…what on earth would make you think you think that?
And that’s the question I never get an answer to. Where they think that they have a say in whether or not they perform a legal task being posed to them by their employer. They’re free to quit and get a different job, Im not stopping them. Honestly, I’d prefer if they’d just quit now then me have to dance this stupid dance every other day, explaining to literal adults that the whole reason they’re paid a wage is to do these sorts of things. Like what did they think, they were going to come in here and change the business to suit their whims? How fucking childish.
What you’re complaining about seems to just be what every generation has done on their first job. This isn’t a genz thing. This is how most people act on their first job until they learn how schedules work not just for them but for everyone to sync up. Their first time stepping out side of their school or family home.
Cuz that’s also part of your job as a boss who trains staff to succeed: you have to also interact with these interns and teach them this. You do have to answer these stupid questions. Someone did it for you on your first job, and if you think they didnt: think again. Every generation has the entitled phase of when they first step out of the house and face the world who don’t kiss their asses like their parents did.
I just don’t get this generational ageism fight. It’s a stupid argument that gets us no where. It’s just about patting the self on the back at someone else’s expense.
No generation escaped going through this asshole phase. Personally if the new generation does come up with a better way to set schedules, there’s nothing wrong with room to improve. We can all benefit from improvement. Lots of places run on outdated, exclusive rules that can definitely afford improvement.
you’re being paid a wage in exchange for your labor and we need your labor on this specific task. “So I don’t get a say in it?” Well, NO, you don’t…what on earth would make you think you think that?
Yes, they do. They can just go home, or walk around the block, or work on something else. No matter what your employer tells them, they aren’t a slave at any point in time.
Will there be consequences? Absolutely. They might get fired. They might get sued. If the task is sufficiently important the State might consider them not doing the task criminal negligence.
This isn’t entitlement, it’s choice and freedom, and perhaps having different priorities than the person assigning tasks. Everyone, including GenZ: Do you, and if you can try to spread joy and reduce suffering.
Do remember tho, someone has to keep the infrastructure working, and it’s often not clear where in joy in that lies.
FWIW, I agree with you. But to be clear, I didn’t list that choice because I felt it was obvious. They absolutely can walk out and not ever come back, they have that autonomy of course.
Where I make the distinction is where the line is drawn as concerns continuing your employment. If you will not perform the tasks expected of you, you will no longer be paid, your badge will no longer open the front doors, and you will not be working here. If that’s the decision you need to make for yourself, I fully support and there are no hard feelings on my side of the desk. I can and have had those sorts of frank discussions before, and it comes with my role in the company as it stands today. Don’t want to work a job with a set schedule? No problemo man, I get it, but that’s not how it is here, so best of luck to you in the future!
But as long as the wage is being drawn, and I’m asking for things that are part of the job expectations that are listed on the documentation they signed when they started working for us, that is beyond the point of negotiation. I’m not an asshole, and I have never in my life assigned a task that I have not personally done myself when I was in their shoes. The tools and technological gains have made their role easier by orders of magnitude then where it even was when I was the intern all those years ago. But when my mentor was assigning my tasks, never in a million years would I have thought that I had the right to dictate to my boss whether or not I would do that task if I wanted to continue being an employee of the firm. I felt it was pretty obvious and clear to anyone that has worked in their lives that it do be that way…I dont get to tell my boss what Im doing if I want my boss to continue employing me.
That is the disconnect Im referring to…the fact that people are taking jobs thinking that they get to dictate what the job entails, even after being told what the job entails, even after signing documentation saying they agree to what the job entails. Where does that come from? And why are people so surprised that refusing to do what a job entails means that you no longer can reasonably expect to continue that job?
That is the disconnect Im referring to…the fact that people are taking jobs thinking that they get to dictate what the job entails, even after being told what the job entails, even after signing documentation saying they agree to what the job entails. Where does that come from?
I don’t know, but I saw something similar in my father (RIP). He would agree to something, then get some benefits, then later attempt to “renegotiate”. That sort of behavior isn’t something “GenZ”. Some people just want to squeeze water our of rocks, even if it is deleterious to their relationships.
Similarly, I’ve certainly had employers that, despite my job duties clearly not covering the task would ask and expect me to perform other tasks “for the good of the company”. It’s fairly common these days for job offers to include “and other duties as assigned” because employers want to have all the power, and I’m fine with workers (of any generation) just refusing to comply.
It does sound like the employee was being unreasonable and maybe should be dismissed, but that doesn’t get the task done either, so maybe the “do it, you have no say” approach isn’t any better. And, I have no idea how I’d handle it. I kinda don’t like delegating stuff anyway, so if I thought the task was important I’d do it myself unless someone happily volunteered. But, I know that might not “scale” the way it needs to make the business work.
Oh, believe me, I know that’s not just a GenZ thing. I’ve worked with people that were in their 60s that would pull the same sort of shit. I think it’s human nature to react negatively to being asked to perform an annoying task, and there are many shades of gray in whether the task itself is justifiable or not. Where I differ though is that in my own experience, so long as a request was reasonable, even if the request itself sucked, I didn’t refuse to do the thing, or at least, knew that if I refused to do the thing that it might have negative consequences on my continued employment.
I’m not a slave driver…believe me, I am very selective with delegating and like I said, I have literally never once in my life, not ever, asked someone to do something that I haven’t done myself and know intimately what it entails. I’ll delegate the task and even help them along by giving them guidance on the most efficient way to complete it…way more than I ever got, that’s for damn sure; where Im at now had a real sink or swim mentality before I came along and was able to shape things more constructively when it came to developing our new hires and that’s reflected in the changes in our turnover over those years.
But anyway, getting back to the point, it’s not just a GenZ thing, but it is something I’ve noticed at a much higher percentage in our younger interns and entry level employees then the years pre-Covid. Everyone is different, but that weird sense that they can have their cake and eat it, too…they can just opt out of doing what’s expected of them and still somehow expect to not have any consequences for doing that…that’s the thing that I see more and more as time goes on among the fresh hires where Im at. The surprisedpikachu when they’re getting talked to about the fact that they’ve rolled in a minimum of 20 minutes late every day this week with no explanation and that’s not okay. Being accused of being unreasonable for talking to them about it in the first place, like I’m out of line with the expectation. That’s the attitude that bothers me, and it’s more common then I’ve ever seen it before.
That’s not genz thing. That’s the hot potato method of where you drop the potato on the ground and don’t play the games the sociopath wants to play.
Yup, I have heard the same complaints about younger generations since the 1990s about Gen X, which are now passed on to us millenials. I’ve always heard the same old versus young fighting since I was a child.
I’ve had 1 experience with 1 younger employee that encapsulates what is considered to be the “Gen z stare”. She was prolly just bored at working in a beef jerky shop. Not gonna get my ruffles in a feather (I like em crunchy).
Ive worked with younger folk at my work. Half are "oh my lord , we are so screwed " the other half is “damn, this kids smart, I like em”
Soo nothing has changed in the last thousand years.
It’s just another distraction from the class war. Anything that tries to divide us is just a distraction.
Nah, it’s just the natural response to people asking the dumbest shit imaginable while you can’t say anything rude without getting fired.
