cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/51634640
A new Gamers Nexus investigation found a retail LG TV actively scanning the local network for phones, laptops, smartwatches and other connected devices, while also capturing microphone audio when the screen appeared to be in standby. The investigation found voice data being stored locally even after the TV was disconnected from the network, with the queued data uploaded once connectivity returned. Researchers also uncovered webOS vulnerabilities that could potentially turn the television into a remotely controlled surveillance device. The really unsettling part isn’t just the advertising angle. It’s the fact that a consumer television can sit inside your trusted network, enumerate other devices, access a microphone, store collected data locally and communicate with external infrastructure. Put that same device in a corporate office, hospital, hotel or conference room and the security implications become considerably more serious. I went through the investigation in detail, including the network scanning, microphone behavior, ACR, webOS attack surface, offline data collection and practical mitigations
It’s hard to find a dumb TV.
Monitors and projectors are going the same way. Not connecting them might not be enough.Time to learn how to use a soldering iron.
Others do too
There’s no “might” here. It’s why high-end TVs are cheap.
“We own the glass, we own the TV, we own the living room. We know who is in an LG home.” –LG President of Ads
These are the Gamers Nexus videos these articles are referencing btw. Support them and their work. Get some cool shirts and physical media while you’re at it.
I’m watching the main one right now (your second link). Holy shit.
Is this anything a VLAN and Pihole can’t fix?
Edit: looks kind of impossible to prevent, if it can access an open Wi-Fi nearby.
For now the only known thing to do that works is for it to never to be connected to any network.
Also if a smart tv was connected to the WiFi there is a possibility it won’t forget that until factory reset.
Possible that they are piggy backing on other hidden networks. I remember there was a whole thing with Samsung years ago with their stuff doing something like that, and there are a few patents around that propose hidden networks from the “internet of things” days.
I just don’t want to even truck with this nonsense, where the fuck is the line before we just stop using these things? I know there must not be a line, since we are talking about circumventing our shit spying on us like it is normal.
So get power strips and turn them off when you’re not using the TV.
Also keep them off wifi/network and you should be good unless they’re smart enough to try to connect to any open network they can find like some sort of malware
unless they’re smart enough to try to connect to any open network they can find like some sort of malware
Uhhhhhhh, bad news there. Many companies have been found to have their stuff make hidden networks and share info these days. I am sure you could figure out a work around if you are savvy enough, but the normal dood? Fucked and pretending this is normal.
Which is why I said just get a power strip. Can’t hack a TV that’s not plugged in.
Yeah maybe there’s way to make a file explorer for them. Maybe there’s ways to jailbreak them. We focus on phones a lot, webos was on the hp bought out palm phones back in the 2010’s.
We find out the operating systems, we jailbreak them and completely remove their programming and then, in-turn we can mess with hardware settings.
So let’s start making a TV Linux that doesn’t suck or make an Ubuntu TV version or a KDE TV version.
They can’t force people into using their OSes forever. The only thing I know is it’s like Pandoras battery trying to disable the wifi from the hardware.
Don’t connect TVs to your network.
So I should connect it to someone elses network?
And according to the article the data collection runs even if it’s disconnected. So, don’t ever connect it to the network. As soon as you do everything gets uploaded.
how is it collecting and sending data if not connected to a network?
i read the article, it still needs a connection
It’s not sending them, just collecting them. Then it sends them the moment you connect. They even transcribe speech to text via mic, according to GN they send about 4GB/month… IN TEXT FILES!
The person you are replying to said that the smart TV collects spy data onto a hard drive even when it’s not connected.
Then once the TV acquires a connection, it dumps the entire drive worth of spy data to the mothership.
The danger here is obvious, I think.
i just misread their post originally
You know how some people rent their wifi routers?
That’s the backbone
if it’s connecting without your explicit permission each time how us that not a worm
Because it is done by a wealthy corporation. See also: rootkits from Sony.
that shit should have been a jail term
but i stopped buying sony over it
This would’ve worked just a few years back but due to shitty “age verification” laws, even TV manufacturers willl force users to create an account the very least for the TV to even start up. They may also implement an always-online model and they’ll justify that it’s necessary to monitor users for “age verification purposes”. ATP better to get a good monitor and use it as TV cuz cable or satellite boxes are either way gonna be provided by the network companies so that’s there
This would’ve worked just a few years back but due to shitty “age verification” laws, even TV manufacturers willl force users to create an account the very least for the TV to even start up.
Surely only for “smart” features but without enabling any of that shit, you shouldn’t get any age verification prompt.
I could see them doing it anyway as OTA broadcasts include rating data.
That said, if it’s a family TV, you’re never going to put everyone on it, just the oldest one anyway.
Impossible - no one would buy them, and that idea would die.
This is the only correct answer. Discussion over.
Works for now, but my fear is when that may not broadly be the case.
I wonder if any of such devices use nbiot or alike…
If I had a LG the on thing it would spy on would be the other untrusted shit I have on the vlan I let them use.
If you are going to have smart devices, put them on their own VLAN. They should not have access to the rest of your network. TVs shouldn’t be connected at all. Use a PC or android box if you want to stream stuff.
The issue in this case is that they apparently use text to speech locally, store that information on the device itself, and then if at any point in the future gets connected to the internet for any meaningful length of time (be it by a subsequent owner) it will then be sent on to LG… for safekeeping of course /s
The deep-dive by GamersNexus is pretty in depth.
In that case, it should be disposed of like an SSD that contains sensitive information. Find the flash chips and either drill holes through them or smash them into dust with a big hammer.
It’s not just LG. It’s all of them.
And, the cheaper the TV, the more often and intrusive these settings are.
It’s honestly better to just have a bare wall and a projector.
It’s honestly better to just have a bare wall and a projector.
Consumer projectors come with the same “smart” shit as TVs these days. Just don’t connect either to WiFi. Problem solved.
Apparently not solved. They can connect to open (and hidden) networks without your consent.
Per the marketing chief at LG; (paraphrased, from memory) “we own the glass, and we know everything beyond the glass.”
They can connect to open (and hidden) networks without your consent.
That’s a wild claim and either I accidentally skipped a paragraph in the article or you should cite a source. Quick googling doesn’t show up anything of that sort for me.
Look for articles about amazons sidewalk network and devices that connect to it without any kind of authorization from users.
That shit has been around since the echo came out and it’s open to any manufacturer.
There’s are lots of articles but my phone is too slow to load them at the moment.
I’m looking for a source as well. The “apparently” I used was supposed to cover the whole comment, but I can see how it didn’t.
The video goes into detail, and could be staged, but comments seem to support the idea anyway.
Amazon devices are known to do this with other Amazon products to create a mesh.
It’s not outside the realm of possibility.
I was at my parent’s house, trying to add some items to the smart TV. They started listening to these awful AI interpersonal dramas read by AI, on YouTube.
My thought was to add some podcasts and their Audible account, for more selections. Maybe they’ll still only listen to that, even so. You can’t add much to a smart tv. No podcasts. No podcast app. A pretty spartan selection of apps. Even something as large and mainstream as Audible. No go. Libby? Yeah, right.
I don’t get it. What’s the point? Just buy a monitor, jack it into a PC for media, and have everything you want minus this telemetry.
Just buy a monitor, jack it into a PC for media, and have everything you want minus this telemetry.
I have some bad news for you:
We’re fully Linux now, various distros per machine, so I no longer pay much attention to windows news.
Ah doesn’t matter. Dont use windows. Use a pi and something like LibreELEC or even you can run debloated android on it with the TV interface and a remote. Just get a BT remote or an IR receiver plug into the usb port. Either of them are pretty cheap
My TV has no Internet connection, but does connect to my gaming desktop. I agree with you. There’s no reason TVs should not just be dumb displays. I do also have the Apple TV, but it never ever shows ads and is a one-time purchase. The day it starts showing me ads is the day it meets the bin.
There’s no reason TVs should not just be dumb displays.
At least, no reason that benefits the consumer. There are strong monetary incentives to spy on customers and sell the data that’s collected.
Once again I’m reminded of Season 1 of Black Mirror. Second episode? Worker drone is “home”, “relaxing” in his sleep cubby and the walls are a barrage of ads. Occasionally he taps to pay credits to shut one down as the rest continue, as casual as anyone scrolling in boredom.
Or a shut down golden retriever in those old, now illegal learned helplessness experiments.
Fingers crossed the new Apple TV box is announced this week, I am waiting to finally switch over
jack it into a PC for media
Even a proprietary streaming stick like FireTV would be an improvement because it only collects telemetry from the stick itself and not devices connected to other HDMI ports.
My LG TV is blocked from my network and always has been. However, the andriod tv connected to it is a different thing, so it’s more or less lost cause anyways and I haven’t had enough incentive to block the android box from the rest of network since it’d need some tweaking so that casting and other occasionally used features still work. And even if I’d block the android tv box there’s still our cellphones gathering all the data, so I’m pretty much just running things on hopium that EU offers at least some protection on my data.
Well, if you watch the Gamers Nexus video, you’ll see that even if you don’t connect your tv to the internet, you’re still not safe.
I keep mine offline and fully turn it off via the power switch on the extension cord. My steam deck is my smart TV instead. Yay Linux!
What do you use for YouTube?
A browser.
Invidious
Bosch fucking dishwashers do this, once connected there is no way to disconnect them so I sink all its outgoing traffick at the router level
Complete garbage
Yeah, what kind of idiot wants an internet-connected dishwasher?
How about an AI-powered pair of chopsticks?
exactly! it’s so useless they had to hide regular features under the wifi connection to force customer’s hand
Why would you connect a dishwasher to the internet? Setting a timer can tell you just as well if the dishes are clean.
Sadly, the only way to change most of the settings or running a cleaning cycle is via the app. It’s insane.
No way in hell id buy that. Soon as the app is dead so is your dishwasher, at the whim of the manufacturer
Planned obsolescence is great isn’t it. /s I try to keep my appliances on life support as long as I can.
Mh. What about… creating a guest network, connecting that abomination to that and deleting the guest network? Hopefully it can remember only one…
My TV is wired to the router but blocked from WAN access.
Only connected to the internet to install jellyfin on it.
Imagine when it’s turned on…
