I’m curious to get a general pulse on how people here view the rapid evolution of AI, specifically on lemmy. On one side, there’s growing interest in local open-weights models, self-hosted setups, and practical developer/productivity tools. On the other, there seems to be a growing list, I can’t keep track of, that are seen as major concerns. I’m not here to pick sides or be biased in one corner. Im genuinely curious what people have to say about AI in general. And maybe it will help me and other get a better handle on how we perceived it in our ever changing world.
Currently? Frank Herbert
“Everyone is trying to use a Magnifying Glass to do everything from change flathead screws to preparing food, from levering open crates to surgical incisions.”
In other words: The base algorithms and techniques are very interesting and have valid applications in a narrow range of fields, being useful for pattern recognition, generation, and analysis.
The problem is everything else. Everyone is trying to use that one tool for things it is neither effective nor practical nor appropriate to use it on, and then being shocked when this has widespread negative outcomes for both themselves and everyone around them. Separately but parallel, the drive to find useful applications of it (in areas where there aren’t) is causing companies and individuals to engage in grossly unethical behavior.
Even in the fields where it is most useful, you have to be cautious about not treating it as a “truth machine”. A speaker I heard put it simply: “AI cheats.” It will latch on to the most prominent patterns, not necessarily the ones you want it to analyze.
everyone i work with that uses it to generate text has lost the ability or patience to read anything, even very light text written by a human.
at best they skim, but mostly they demand in-person conversations so they can be spoon fed the contents of the documentation.
gone are the days of “this meeting could’ve been an email” because they won’t (or can’t) read the email.
so yeah, i hate it but am required to use it for work. which makes me hate it more.
It’s like a calculator.
- it costs more than doing it yourself
- it seems faster
- it’s accurate but you have to do it right and check the shit after
- it makes you stupid for the basics
- it robs kids of important fundamentals.
- it’s pervasive. Soon it may be ubiquitous.
My niece can’t make change for a dollar, nor multiply numbers above 12. She struggles with writing and reading, and I wonder at her reasoning skills. She’s 27.
She’s fine with a calculator and hard facts. But the “two trains leave on coursetl to pass each other” kind of “make math from description” part that exercises the brain’s ability to select the right equation and use it? Not great.
We’ll be like this, but with building digital things. Our BEST hope is to become the fat and lazy pampered pets of the robots like in WALL-E. The alternative is a little too Matrix for me.
She’s fine with a calculator and hard facts. But the “two trains leave on coursetl to pass each other” kind of “make math from description” part that exercises the brain’s ability to select the right equation and use it? Not great.
We’ll be like this, but with building digital things. Our BEST hope is to become the fat and lazy pampered pets of the robots like in WALL-E. The alternative is a little too Matrix for me.
We talk about the “K-shaped economy” where there was an inflection point and our society diverged into two groups: one doing well financially and getting richer and the other continuing to decline financially.
I’m personally seeing separate unrelated K-shaped divergence between one part of our society that continuing to increase in technical knowledge and execution skills and the other falling further away being slaves to digital products designed to separate them from as much of their money as possible.
The first group are avid users of 3D printers and other fabrication techniques. They love a good RESTful API. They’ll chop the back half off of one product and stitch it together with interface electronics and code to the other half of another device just to make their lives slightly better.
The second group will pay $5 for an app that will take Instagram pictures and apply them to some digital in-game item while the app sells their location and personal information to brokers and their car insurance company to jack up their premiums.
The small help it gives does not equal the vast evil done to the environment, communities, and actual makers and creators.
to be fair im kinda feeling this with everything. ai, social media, plastic everything.
Personally I think the vast majority AI is ethically indefensible purely based on how it was trained. Generative AI represents, at best, the privatization of culture by for-profit corporations, and at worst, one of the most unprecedented instances of exploitation of human labor and creativity in history.
And you don’t have to take my word for it because it was recently uncovered in court that Microsoft director of applied science Brent Hecht called it the “largest theft of labor in human history”.
Even if we were to totally ignore how wasteful most AI is, how damaging to the climate it is, and how much it threatens to further broaden the gap between the rich and the poor, I already hate AI for what is so obviously the capitalistic strip-mining of all human culture in the name of creating shareholder value.
Pro-AI people love to brush off pretty much all of the ethical concerns with the simple argument that the ends justify the means. I reject that outright, but for the sake of argument I want you all to consider whether that is even a valid point… Do the ends justify the means? We are doing all of this AI shit to what ends?
Who benefits from this supposedly increased “productivity”? Definitely not the working class who have at most a relatively minor stake in the success of big tech businesses. Can anyone seriously claim we are seeing things improve at all, let alone an accelerating rate? Do we really see AI bringing about a utopian society where everything is great? Or are we seeing things enshittify and become more corporate and less affordable week by week? Is any of this shit making your life easier or better?
Now don’t get me wrong… it seems to be making some things much easier: scams, disinformation, surveillance, propaganda, fraud, and of course generic commercialized slop. We honestly couldn’t ask for a better set of tools to trick people into giving us money. Generative AI has truly disrupted the market for scams, and it seems that it has brought about a new golden age of fraudulence.
local open-weights models, self-hosted setups, and practical developer/productivity tools
Not to be a wet blanket, but I feel this stuff really needs a reality check too.
“Open weights” is nothing more than a freeware binary blob.
I can see how that’s at least preferable to using some company’s subscription service, but at the same time your local LLM still has a hard dependency on someone else’s corporate training dataset (pretty much all the result of stolen labor, by the way), and so it’s very much not as “open” or “local” as people like to make it out to be. And from an ethical standpoint, it’s not a whole lot different either way.
I think an ethical alternative to today’s generative AI could exist–if it was trained on public domain, creative commons and licensed data, and thus not exploiting human labor and culture–but I’m not seeing people invest any time in making that.
Ethical training data could exit, but I don’t think public domain/creative commons/licensed are quite good enough (almost no one who contributed knew what AI would become until recently, and some of those people are still alive). Although that’s better.
A truly ethical training dataset for AI would be one that everyone who created the training data opted into. And I don’t mean their employer or photography sharing platform signed a license deal, I mean they personally opted in. If AI is so great, I’m sure plenty of people will be happy to contribute their art, photos, writing, code, social media posts, etc. All the pro-AI people can just band together and make their own dataset to use.
That doesn’t solve all the other issues with generative AI, but it would make a huge difference.
Ethical training data could exit, but I don’t think public domain/creative commons/licensed are quite good enough (almost no one who contributed knew what AI would become until recently, and some of those people are still alive).
I get what you’re saying, but that is sort of a failure of imagination on the part of the licensor, in my opinion…
While I can understand some people being surprised by how their explicitly public domain or cc0 works are currently being used, this is inherently part of the risk you take when you opt into giving your work an extremely permissive license in the first place.
If you put something out there and tell the world “you can use this freely, forever, for whatever you want”, you are committing to all kinds of potential uses, known and unknown, within the scope of that license.
Contributing someone into the public domain is a nice thought for sure, but it’s also not something to take lightly because you really don’t know what it might one day be used for, and you are relinquishing a lot of your (legal) rights.
I think it’s ethically indefensible, but because of the environmental impact of data centers.
I don’t disagree with that.
But a magical, new, clean, and infinite fusion power source could be invented tomorrow, and AI would still be deeply exploitative of human labor.
So, to me at least, in addition to the environmental impact, the cultural and social impact can’t be overstated. It’s all bad.
As far as the ethical concerns go for “local” models how do you feel about individuals using it for non-commercial use? A toy/hobby/assistant for their own home use? I personally have been enjoying “playing” with it, but I do agree in that I hate how they’ve come to obtain the training data. I hate the companies that create it and profit off of it, but personally I don’t feel too guilty using it as a toy/hobby if it’s a model that was released for free to be used on your own hardware.
It works for basic tasks like correcting grammar, sorting lists, etc, but it makes too many mistakes when you try to use it for a complex task.
Let me try to use an analogy.
We’re farmers in ancient times. A shaman tells us that we can increase our crop yields by taking a bunch of kittens and dismembering them alive in the fields. You try it and it actually works. I don’t want to do it and I’m disappointed by your choice.
I have bigger things to worry about. Like affording food and all my bills.
Broadly speaking, fuck AI
“Rapid Evolution” = recursing the same algorithm to juice ever diminishing returns out of the parlor trick at ever greater costs.
Artificial intelligence is good at doing boring repetitive tasks or point out things for a human to look at when there is too much data for us to scrutinise.
If you do not have the skill to verify the output you are almost certainly getting garbage out of it.
The fact that they cram AI into everything is because they are throwing AI at the wall and seeing what sticks. Spending millions on a 1% chance that you will make billions makes economical sense if you can afford to lose.
It reminds me of early 90s PCs…
Everyone was convinced if you “knew how to computer” that’s all you needed. Every school bought a shit ton, and kids would get an hour a day to just dick around and play games.
None of the adults understand any of it, so we grew up learning to be thech support for the people teaching it to us.
AI will eventually end up like PCs, it won’t be a magic solution, but it will drastically cut down on available jobs and transfer wealth to the wealthy.
The smart move is to sit it out till someone actually makes it profitable, then we could dump billions into it now. We can’t beat China because their companies actually have to compete with each other.
We should wait till the dust settles over there, then dump the money on copying what they do. Just manufacturing whatever chips design they settle on.
Racing R&D with zero manufacturing just isn’t logical.
I refuse to use AI as a tool for anything other than making tools.
I can’t write LISP but I use AutoCAD. I use an LLM to write LISP routines.
I spent MONTHS looking for a way to catalog my plant collection. Tried a dozen open source projects and none did what I wanted it to do. So I used Claude to make a simple database website…and it was able to add a ton of pipe dream features.
Nothing I make is for sale and I don’t claim it as my own. They’re tools for ME to use. And the important part is that once the tool is done, the LLM gets closed.
First of all, it isn’t going away. Stop telling yourself that lie. If you hate it, then compare it to herpes or mosquitoes. Not going away. People love to talk about sensational things like bubbles or how it will end humanity. Stop being hysterical. It is software. You don’t have to use it, you don’t have to like it, but be informed. Saying it will go away is about as ignorant as saying the internet is a fad and smartphones are on the edge of failing out of the market. You just sound like a Luddite.
In the end, it is a tool. It can be used for stupidity, waste and nonsense, or it can be used for something good.
You can use a hammer to build something or you can murder someone with it. Any tool can be misused.
It is terribly inefficient in its current form. It needs to be refined just like any other technology. We used to have cars that got single digit mpg. Now you can buy a cheap car that gets 30+, a hybrid that can crack 50 or straight electric. Like anything, it will improve over time.
Society did not revert to riding horses, we did not give up mobile phones for land lines and ai isn’t going away. There is solid historical precedent to demonstrate this. You can be the old man yelling at the clouds, but it won’t do anything but make you look silly.
I spent my life as a researcher in the ML space (now called AI) because I didn’t want people to have to deal with the same hardships I did. I saw the incredible strides we made in search and creative tooling. Nobody else will have to spend days rotoscoping a character. We will be able to find any picture just by searching for a blurry, low resolution one.
But it’s turning into a system that is used to funnel money from the most vulnerable population into the coffers of the wealthy. Instead of equalizing, it’s exacerbating inequality.
As I see it, a model trained on pubic data should be a public good. You can charge people at cost for inference and training, but unless you provided the data you’re obligated to give the weights back.
There’s a lot of hostility to AI and I think a lot of it is ill informed or ignorant. People are opposed to data centers, but they’re focused on the “AI” part, when in reality said data centers use less water than laws and serve more than just AI. They give you Nerflix and search results and YouTube. (Not to say it’s never an issue, just that there’s more nuance. Water constrained areas are not a good place for data centers.) I’m personally more opposed to data centers because it prevents me from owning my own hardware. I want to buy a thing and use it as I desire. I don’t want to pay a subscription fee to use my own computer.
There are a host of other objections, but I’ll leave it here for now. There are a lot of good reasons for hating LLMs, but mostly people jump on the bandwagon and hate them for stupid or inaccurate reasons, preventing us from having productive conversations.







